GhostTrick
Banned
DSi to 3DS has been 8 times more in term of ram. I guess its the same for CPU power. Although DS didnt had a GPU but an ARM core for that.
Although its really hard to compare.
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Digitimes: Supply chain players gear up for new Nintendo console
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
DSi to 3DS has been 8 times more in term of ram. I guess its the same for CPU power. Although DS didnt had a GPU but an ARM core for that.
Although its really hard to compare.
Cheers friend.
One of the things to note: their handhelds are usually somewhat comparable to their console two generations prior, but that gap has been narrowing considerably. Example:
Gameboy Advance: better than SNES (in most situations)
DS: better than N64 (in about 50/50 situations, at least more predictable)
3DS: sort of equivalent/better/worse than GameCube and even Wii. Has a more modern featureset but less grunt power.
I wouldn't expect Nintendo to try and match the NX handheld with the Wii's power. They mostly did that with the 3DS, so I'd say we should expect it somewhat lower than their current console hardware, Wii U.
As a side note: I found it hilarious when the 3DS came out and it had better color depth than the Wii games at the time.
thisisvlad
Member
It's also fascinating to think that this was all the status quo from the split engineering teams. Now that they're combined, will be interested to see what they end up producing. Would love to have been a fly on the wall during those integration meetings. Deciding who gets which position, etc.. If the handheld team got priority based on their devices generally fairing better than the consoles, etc..
Fourth Storm
Member
Oland XT is 384 ALUs and 90mm^2. It also draws alot of power, but let's pretend this doesn't matter (maybe it doesn't, if we are interpreting Shocking's source optimistically). Remember, Wii U's SoC was ~145mm^2 plus the small CPU and cost of MCM integration. Without the Gamepad, Wii U is probably a $250 machine (also, expensive eDRAM on there, so let's say even cheaper without that).
So we have a 90mm^2 GPU. I agree with blu that they will want to keep the 32 MB framebuffer on there. It will have to be eSRAM this time though. At the same manufacturing node as Xbone. I haven't looked up the space they could save from switching out Jaguar for the Cortex A57, but I think that 384 ALUs (or half an Xbone) is realistic if they want to safely undercut Microsoft's price by a decent margin. Subtract Blu-Ray licensing and HDD maybe and it sounds like a $199 box in 2016.
It's probably important that they don't skimp on CPU cores and RAM amount if they have any thought of maybe getting current-gen console ports. Downgraded graphical settings are one thing, but as we've seen on Wii U, drastically less RAM and CPU capability will make ports impossible.
So we have a 90mm^2 GPU. I agree with blu that they will want to keep the 32 MB framebuffer on there. It will have to be eSRAM this time though. At the same manufacturing node as Xbone. I haven't looked up the space they could save from switching out Jaguar for the Cortex A57, but I think that 384 ALUs (or half an Xbone) is realistic if they want to safely undercut Microsoft's price by a decent margin. Subtract Blu-Ray licensing and HDD maybe and it sounds like a $199 box in 2016.
It's probably important that they don't skimp on CPU cores and RAM amount if they have any thought of maybe getting current-gen console ports. Downgraded graphical settings are one thing, but as we've seen on Wii U, drastically less RAM and CPU capability will make ports impossible.
InsaneZero
Member
You're putting the cart before the horse. This is basically saying that Nintendo uses their previous hardware as their performance limit and builds the new product around that, component costs and actual feasibility be damned. That's completely nonsensical and impractical for a company that's incredibly conservative.
We shouldn't be using previous hardware as a metric since they're not working with parts and components from back then, they're working with what's available right now.
Iwata Asks: NX Development
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
There's difference between a console with a portable component and this whole family of device/formfactors certain pockets of gaf seem to be thinking.
Exterminieren
Banned
Iwata has also spoken of the potential for introducing new form factors beyond the console/handheld dichotomy with the shared architecture.
Maybe it might be an idea to avoid wading into a thread and calling people ignorant if you aren't actually familiar with what has already been said about it?
LegendofLex
Member
You're right, there is a difference: Iwata has specifically talked about the "future Nintendo platform" being a "family of systems" with different "form factors."
Specifically, he says this:
as the endpoint of his response to an investor asking him whether the new platform will be a handheld + console hybrid.
DeuceGamer
Member
RE: NX being digital only (either handheld or console)....
I know Physical media is slowly dying, but I can't buy into the NX being digital only (even the handheld). Maybe I'm just wishful thinking as I love to own the physical media.
I'm not expecting a powerhouse console/handheld and will basically be happy as long as I still get Nintendo games that are fun. In fact, one of the only ways I can imagine I'd actually be disappointed in the NX is if either handheld or console didn't have the option of Physical media of some type.
I know Physical media is slowly dying, but I can't buy into the NX being digital only (even the handheld). Maybe I'm just wishful thinking as I love to own the physical media.
I'm not expecting a powerhouse console/handheld and will basically be happy as long as I still get Nintendo games that are fun. In fact, one of the only ways I can imagine I'd actually be disappointed in the NX is if either handheld or console didn't have the option of Physical media of some type.
The problem regarding software is not just volume but variety. What good does it do to have all teams able to port games to all systems, but still make only plarformers?
Schnozberry
Member
I think Nintendo will obviously go physical for tent pole titles. I think from a publishing standpoint it will be on a case by case basis. Not every game needs a physical version, especially if they are relatively small download sizes or being sold at prices that don't make sense for retail. Nintendo is better off dedicating their retail space to Amiibo, NX accessories, hardware of course, and download cards.
Schnozberry
Member
With the shrink in process, I would think they could get 512ALUs. A lot of Oland XT is made up of circuitry that is PCI Express and various other logic that wouldn't be necessary for NX. That would mean ~700GFLOPS at 28nm drawing about 25w. If they go ARM and 8GB of DDR3 that would put the whole system at sub 50w or so. I would think Nintendo could live with that.
Yeah, it's possible. The problem with cartridges is cost, because discs are way cheaper, but storage space and speed are more than ok for that and more. On the handheld, we will most definitely have cartridges again, while it remains to be seen if they go that route with the home as well or if they'll stick with proprietary discs.
That would be 819GFLOPs at 800MHZ (same as the PowerVR GT7900) and 1TFLOP at 1GHZ. I would personally be perfectly ok with these, and of course Vulkan API.
I didn't mean to imply that was their benchmark. It's just happened to line up that way and the gap was narrowing. Someone asked to take a look at their portable hardware evolution and it was a trend that was noticeable.
So just to recap:
*NX shared os
* shared dev tools
* possible android play store access
NX portable:
*Likely slightly under wiiu power
* very likely cart based
NX console
* likely signicantly stronger than wiiu ( it has to differ from hh and be worth the cost)
* likely not a monster of a system but not embarrassing
* is powerful enough to emulate or hold wiiu architecture.
Both devices likely share innards
Both devices 2016 reveal 2017 launch.
Both devices backwards compatible.
Am I correct?
*NX shared os
* shared dev tools
* possible android play store access
NX portable:
*Likely slightly under wiiu power
* very likely cart based
NX console
* likely signicantly stronger than wiiu ( it has to differ from hh and be worth the cost)
* likely not a monster of a system but not embarrassing
* is powerful enough to emulate or hold wiiu architecture.
Both devices likely share innards
Both devices 2016 reveal 2017 launch.
Both devices backwards compatible.
Am I correct?
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
In the DeNA partnership announcement Iwata is quoted in saying "Nintendo is currently developing a dedicated game platform with a brand new concept under the development codename 'NX'." This is basically all we know. So it's possible, but not for certain. Will answer for real at some point in 2016.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
I've been thinking about cartridges in teh context of a download only system lately.
What if you had a console with 32 gig of Flash memory on board, that was restricted solely to system-level data (Firmware, OS, User Accounts, Miis, etc) and all game data was stored on hard drives?
The hard drives would be swappable, in an easily accessible position on the console, and encased in a plastic housing with connections on one end.
When a hard drive filled up, you could buy new ones, thus never having to "clean out the fridge". You could take your hard drive to a retail location and purchase games through a kiosk, like Nintendo did with the iQue in non-traditional markets. Games could also be sold at retail on NFC cards, and those cards could even be packaged with retailer exclusive cartridge stickers.
They could even sell the concept as a parental control- keep your M-Rated games on a separate hard drive cartridge than the family friendly games.
Interceptor
Banned
Yep. But i would still go with a summer release for the handheld and Winter for the console. Both 2016.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Storage space.
these arent quite on the mark.
it was more about getting android games to easily run on the platform either through emulation or native and just their own APIs.
Details are coming in 2016, people are guessing at least one device is going to be coming by end of 2016.
but yeah its nearly all speculation. just a few Iwata quotes to go on and some from AMD.
Mithos
Member
What this "not embarrassing" mean is something we will disagree on however.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Exactly. Just where has all this cartridge talk come from all of a sudden?
No thanks...no proprietary BS, please. Just stick to standards. Heck, just use normal blueray and maybe even allow movies to be viewable. Aren't Wii U discs limited to 25GB whereas standard bluray can got up to 50GB? I'm not saying do this to get the ports etc. but just be prepared to have the resource available if a third party wants to bring a game over that requires more space.
Schnozberry
Member
Yeah, I was thinking Nintendo would clock down to avoid having to dissipate the heat.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly, 25-50GB ROMS!
You know how expensive that would be? Come on people, think.
$300 NeoGeo games.
What if both handheld and console used carts. Nintendo plans to release the same software on both. Thus, one cart that you can play on either system.
The games will be branded "NX" (or whatever), and they will work on your handheld, console and NX tablet! This would probably benefit Nintendo in the self space department, as all their games would be together in one section so they don't need as much space. Maybe helps out with packaging costs as well, since now they only need one type of box instead of two. As well as the fact that now they are only producing carts, instead of the current situation of cart+disc. And, the cost to make discs is just gonna keep going up as the decline of physical movie sales continues, and even game sales will start to trend more towards digital right?
Not gonna happen obviously but I think it would be cool to have physical games that you can use on multiple hardware.
The games will be branded "NX" (or whatever), and they will work on your handheld, console and NX tablet! This would probably benefit Nintendo in the self space department, as all their games would be together in one section so they don't need as much space. Maybe helps out with packaging costs as well, since now they only need one type of box instead of two. As well as the fact that now they are only producing carts, instead of the current situation of cart+disc. And, the cost to make discs is just gonna keep going up as the decline of physical movie sales continues, and even game sales will start to trend more towards digital right?
Not gonna happen obviously but I think it would be cool to have physical games that you can use on multiple hardware.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Never. To emulate a Wii U decently it must be a monster in hardware power. Even high end PCs would have problems with emulating a multiprocessor architecture.
Emulation would be easy if NX includes Wii U PowerPC as second processor (we can safely assume that the main processor will be an ARM), but that would make the hardware expensive.
DeuceGamer
Member
Call me old fashioned, but I want physical releases for basically all my games. I understand indies not having physical, but even then the best sellers have been getting them in limited releases (Retro City Rampage Vita, Shovel Knight, etc...).
I'll take what I can get but as someone that still plays my retro games I enjoy the Physical media.
Edit: I understand the reasoning behind it, just personally not what I want. It wouldn't be a deal breaker, but I have to admit I wouldn't purchase as many games on that system.
InsaneZero
Member
The problem with optical is that it really doesn't work with portable devices, which is how this conversation started.
Schnozberry
Member
I sympathize, I just think digital is the unstoppable future and Nintendo would be smart to phase physical media out over time.
Eh, I'd actually prefer a Digital Event for the NX's reveal. That way there are absolutely zero screw-ups with the system's reveal. Plus when done right (see 2014's Nintendo Digital Event), it can beat an E3 press conference. And besides, Nintendo still has a stage presence via the Nintendo World Championship.
DeuceGamer
Member
Yea, as much as I want to fight it I do understand, though I'm not sure we are quite there yet. Again though, that may just be wishful thinking
i feel like a stage reveal of the nx at the nwc next year is in the cards, so they can have their carefully controlled message and screaming.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
I think they will take a page out of Sony book and have a Feb or March reveal maybe take advantage of their Universal partnership and have it at the LA park.
SuperLeviathan
Member
It would also be of tremendous help to have a Garage game. If not Splat2n, then another cut from the same jib.
THAT, properly advertised, would be dynamite.
OrbitalBeard
Member
A new Garage IP was precisely what I was thinking of actually! Hopefully they have a number of fresh ideas in the works for NX.
I feel like Splatoon 2 won't be ready until Early 2017 unless they start the second they finish the August Update for the first game.
Retromelon
Member
I want to know what krizzx thinks about all this
Carts for handheld, where you really need solid state storage and game sizes can be smaller if targeting a 5-6" 720p(ish) screen.
Those carts work as-is on the home console, with the games using he same handheld assets and scaling up to 1080p. But the home console can also go online and download a patch for the game which is basically the home console version - better quality textures, models etc. you need the cart in to play, but it'll use the high quality assets.
That's just if you want to buy physically. If you buy digitally you can just download the relevant version on both platforms with a shared account.
If they are launching in 2016 like we think/hope, then I agree they need an earlier reveal than E3 to allow hype to build and give them time so that E3 can be more about details and games. If we don't hear anything until E3, that would make me worried that we are looking at a 2017 release.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm thinking the handheld will definitely be stronger than the Vita, but beyond that I'm not entirely sure. It'll probably be pretty comparable to the 360 in terms of what it can do, or sit somewhere in between Vita and Wii U.
Maybe the first live gameplay demo, but I think they'll likely do a press event alongside a widely advertised Direct earlier in the year (around April maybe) to announce the hardware, then do their blowout at E3 and then release it later in the year.
It's not like the entire team is working on the post launch support, the rest of the team has likely be put on another game and maybe it's a Splatoon sequel, who knows.
lwilliams3
Member
Hmm,which leak are you referring to? Don't recall that particular source.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Universal? Why I'm suddenly remembering project natal reveal with Cirque Du Soleil
A french site started reporting on details of a controller with a screen an some basic idea of specs. No actual numbers but a rough approximation.