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DirectX 12 will not be supported by Windows 7

Vein

Banned
Win7 is like super glue for me. You are going to have to try really hard to get me off this thing. And 8 didn't do it. 10 looks like it won't do it really either. I'm not sure yet. I might as well just save this whole PC as a Win7 machine at this point.
 
I may have asked this numerous times and I want to hear more from Windows 8.1 users so I apologize but...

Is it true that if you are offline for a long period of time, Windows will ask for license validation?

I have never heard of that happening. Once Windows is activated, you should be fine.

The only times you may need to reactive is if you install new hardware, you have a copy from enterprise or with volume licensing and are offline for >6 months, or of course if windows can detect that you are running a cracked copy.

If it were to happen though and you had a legit key, all you need to do is call MS on the phone as there is an option to activate over phone when you go through that process, and that doesn't require internet access at all to re-activate.
 

paolo11

Member
I have never heard of that happening. Once Windows is activated, you should be fine.

The only times you may need to reactive is if you install new hardware, you have a copy from enterprise or with volume licensing and are offline for >6 months, or of course if windows can detect that you are running a cracked copy.

If it were to happen though and you had a legit key, all you need to do is call MS on the phone as there is an option to activate over phone when you go through that process, and that doesn't require internet access at all to re-activate.

What is volume licensing?

I am getting a new rig and the last thing I want is online check in DRM BS. If Windows 8.1 has no online check DRM, I will get that for my OS.

My OS is Windows 8.1 non enterprise. If I install that and activate it immediately and I go offline for a long time in the future, it won't ask me for that BS validation, right?
 

Kevin

Member
I automatically assumed that Windows 7 would not be supported. By the time Directx 12 comes out, Windows 7 will be several generations behind (it's what I'm still using). It would have been to awesome for Microsoft to still support it but ultimately they want to give incentives for people to switch to a more modern version of Windows.
 
Are you running w10? Or just basing that on reviews?

If the former what do you see as being inferior to w7? I can't see a single way 7 beats 10 so far.

Nope not run windows "10" I don't like to mess about with preview stuff on my PC. However from what I have read and seen of it so far it doesn't really offer me enough to move from Windows 7 not to mention I absolutely hate the look of it.

It isn't about it being "inferior" to Windows 7 it is about there being not enough of an improvement for me to warrant forking out 100 quid for it. Not to mention all the hassle of switching over to Win "10" and finding they ditched old features of Windows 7 that I liked in favour of new shit that I can't stand.
 
My OS is Windows 8.1 non enterprise. If I install that and activate it immediately and I go offline for a long time in the future, it won't ask me for that BS validation, right?

it only asks if you make a significant change to your hw.

even then, you get two licenses with windows 8.1 retail.
 

pestul

Member
Expected. I've switched my laptop and main PC over to 8.1 and absolutely love it (even with metro, though I rarely look at it).

I don't think there's a huge void in game performance right now though. I think BF4 patched out the problems with Windows 7 to put it on par with 8, but I could be wrong. I seem to remember that a about a month after switching to 8 (which I did because of BF4 performance advantages), 7 caught up.

Having said that, Windows 8/8.1 has lots of lovely improvements for power users. It turned out to be a pretty awesome OS imo.
 
Aren't MS moving to free/cheaper OS updates now? I thought they were getting away from the "$100 license for new operating system" approach, which should (in theory) help keep people up to date.
 

dr_rus

Member
Huh? The start menu works just like the old 7 and xp one's. same layout and all programs with smaller icons,titles,etc

No.
Win10's Start Menu is stored in the registry instead of the file structure - much like V/7's "Games" folder did which was 99% unusable for me because of this.
Did you ever try pinning a shortcut to a file to Win8's Start screen? Well, that's one of its biggest drawbacks - and they're bringing it in full scale to Win10 Start menu now.
They really have no clue.
 

Bsigg12

Member
Aren't MS moving to free/cheaper OS updates now? I thought they were getting away from the "$100 license for new operating system" approach, which should (in theory) help keep people up to date.

Well, there's a difference in an update to an existing PC and someone building a new one. Like I mentioned earlier, 8 had a deal for $40 when it launched, and believe that's how they'll handle 10. As far as buying the OS for a new system goes, I would assume that would fall in the typical pricing on the OS ($100+ for the initial license and updates for cheap or free after that).
 
I would need a DX12 compatible card anyway, right? I do have the upgrade disc for Windows 8, but I've never been compelled to use it. Maybe if this will support my current or next GPU.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Expected, but fuck you MS.

Yes fuck them for not adding anymore features to a 6 year old operating system.

Just upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out, it will be better than Windows 7 in every way including desktop UI. This is like telling Sony to fuck off when they stop making exclusives for PS3 when the PS4 has come out.

I would need a DX12 compatible card anyway, right? I do have the upgrade disc for Windows 8, but I've never been compelled to use it. Maybe if this will support my current or next GPU.

Everything dating back to the Nvidia 500 series will be supported for DX12 and should all see performance improvements
 
Yes fuck them for not adding anymore features to a 6 year old operating system.

Just upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out, it will be better than Windows 7 in every way including desktop UI. This is like telling Sony to fuck off when they stop making exclusives for PS3 when the PS4 has come out.



Everything dating back to the Nvidia 500 series will be supported for DX12 and should all see performance improvements

I dont know if that is true till we get the final build. There are more things to it than just simply that.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
Why would anyone want to use older Windows 7 anyway, 8.1 is pretty great!

DLP latency is more troublesome in 8 than it is 7 I don't need more fps I want less kernel lag. Outside of OS improvement like better networking or multicore usage I hate 8 and detest moving towards it.

In general I hate using MS OS products cause of bloat and the fact they don't do much for gaming when they could take plenty of steps besides DX12 to make it better. The fact windows still to this day has the bloat it does and no gaming mode to get a lot of overhead or wasted cpu/io performance has me ticked cause MS doesn't care or think to deal with services or application that run amuck.
 

Card Boy

Banned
Rule of thumb is skip every second Windows. Everyone skipped 2000, Vista and 8, now its time to get 10. Although 7 is good it's to time to let go.
 
No.
Win10's Start Menu is stored in the registry instead of the file structure - much like V/7's "Games" folder did which was 99% unusable for me because of this.
Did you ever try pinning a shortcut to a file to Win8's Start screen? Well, that's one of its biggest drawbacks - and they're bringing it in full scale to Win10 Start menu now.
They really have no clue.

What? I just pinned a shortcut to a file just fine on Windows 10 start menu. Drag and drop the file onto the start button. Bam, it's pinned on the start menu. This didn't work on Windows 8, I'll give you that, but don't act like the Windows 10 start menu is exactly the same thing as what existed on Win8.

I don't know all of the places the start menu uses to populate its data, but it still seems to use folders on the system.

%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

What other features are they missing that you need?

I would need a DX12 compatible card anyway, right? I do have the upgrade disc for Windows 8, but I've never been compelled to use it. Maybe if this will support my current or next GPU.

They said when they announced that if you had Windows 7-era hardware, DX12 will work fine, and you'll get the benefits of "to the metal" coding that it brings. IIRC, the 6x0 series for Nvidia and later, and probably cards around a similar timeline on the AMD side.

What is volume licensing?

I am getting a new rig and the last thing I want is online check in DRM BS. If Windows 8.1 has no online check DRM, I will get that for my OS.

My OS is Windows 8.1 non enterprise. If I install that and activate it immediately and I go offline for a long time in the future, it won't ask me for that BS validation, right?

Volume licensing is usually an enterprise thing, so the answer would be no you don't have it. It's when you use a single license key across multiple Windows PC's, which makes it really easy for IT to install Windows since they don't need to assign keys to individual machines and can just use a common key.

You should be fine installing it, activating and going offline.

As I said, the only time a valid license should ever get the non-genuine message is if you do significant changes to your hardware (such as changing the motherboard). However, you don't even need internet access to reactive it, you just call a 1-800 line that MS has to reactivate it, and they give you a code. Technically you never need to have Windows connect to the internet once because you can always do activation offline.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
In the case of 64 bits games the reason is (in my opinion) that there was (until recently) only one platform which was 64 bits. Now that the PS4/XBO are 64 bits based we naturally see it being the baseline rather than a dreamy expectation.

Last gen consoles had 64-bit CPUs. And the generation before that, the PS2 supposed had a 128-bit cpu and the Gamecube was 64-bit. The original Xbox was the last console to be 32-bit.
 
Nope not run windows "10" I don't like to mess about with preview stuff on my PC. However from what I have read and seen of it so far it doesn't really offer me enough to move from Windows 7 not to mention I absolutely hate the look of it.

It isn't about it being "inferior" to Windows 7 it is about there being not enough of an improvement for me to warrant forking out 100 quid for it. Not to mention all the hassle of switching over to Win "10" and finding they ditched old features of Windows 7 that I liked in favour of new shit that I can't stand.

Why do you keep putting "10" in quotes? It's bugging the hell out of me. That's the actual name, 7 isn't really the 7th version of windows either.
 

Cipherr

Member
People are going to get WinX anyway including myself so I don't think this matters much. Win 8 and its variants were losers though. Werent ever going to get the majority of gamers on Win8, but X is stripping back the nonsense and bringing back the King, so adoption will be just fine.
 

Daingurse

Member
This is literally why I installed 8.1 months ago. I was completely under the assumption that I'd need to get off 7 for DX12.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
The DirectX Cycle:

Laggard: I'm sticking to my old version of Windows because there's no gaming benefit of upgrading.

MS: We're updating DX on new Windows to make it better for gaming.

Laggard: Fuck you!
I'm not convinced that they couldn't easily port it to W7. It's forced obsolescence, which consumers are understandably not a fan of.
 
Why do you keep putting "10" in quotes? It's bugging the hell out of me. That's the actual name, 7 isn't really the 7th version of windows either.

Meh if that is "bugging the hell out of ya" then wow. Personally I see the Windows 10 name as a con job from Microsoft to try and make it look like they are moving as far away from the embarrassment that was Windows 8 as they can (when in reality it is barely windows 8.155). Sure MS can call it whatever the hell they like and I can equally dislike it if I wish.
 

Octavia

Unconfirmed Member
I'm just going to be completely honest. I'll gladly take lower framerates/less graphical features in games instead of having the windows UI look like ass (in my opinion). I've got my win 7 exactly how I like it, and I love the way Aero looks.

Considering 95% of my computer time is spent in the windows shell, I'm not interested in conceding those things unless someone makes a mod that brings back EXACTLY how Aero looks, shadows, ect. without any performance loss to win 10.
 

Locuza

Member
I'm not convinced that they couldn't easily port it to W7. It's forced obsolescence, which consumers are understandably not a fan of.
I think this statement from D3D Dev Lead Max McMullen ist a nice read:

If the goal is to describe which API methods function fully I could further throw another complicating factor by considering OS version and WDDM version. A classic example of this is the Direct3D 11.1 API Platform Update for Windows 7, where my team brought the 11.1 API from Windows 8 back to Windows 7. There was a lot of negative press about the 11.1 hardware features not being supported on Windows 7 in that platform update, along with a significant amount of speculation in the press that the hardware features were turned off to create a need to upgrade to Windows 8. The actual truth is my team engineered the platform update to have full support for the hardware features in feature level 11.1. Exposing those hardware features requires the runtime query a new WDDM version and function table from the user mode drivers. When my team went into testing for the platform update, a significant number of hybrid laptop drivers and unsupported wrapper drivers for things like USB displays behaved erratically when a new driver version was queried. After months of ordering more laptops and devices to test, I eventually pulled the plug on querying a new WDDM version to resolve the remaining driver compatibility issues. The cost was too great for the features being added. Even if my team managed to keep the driver query intact, some APIs like EnqueueSetEvent on DXGI wouldn't work without an update to the kernel or a change in design for Windows 7. Such APIs were left disabled in the platform update based on "bang for buck" of dev effort.

In summary, support for a given piece of functionality is multidimensional: API version, OS version, Hardware Support, and WDDM Version.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/directx-12-api-preview.55653/page-5#post-1791900
 

Sothpaw

Member
Whatever. I have come to grips with 8.1 at this point and will jump ship to 10 immediately. It can't possibly be worse than 8.
 

Valnen

Member
If Windows 10 is good nobody will have any valid excuse to still be using 7 anyways. Windows 7 is old as dirt at this point. It's time for a new OS.
 

Denton

Member
MS is so stupid.

I really wish nVidia and Intel adopted Mantle or openGL and all devs would too and we could get rid of DX altogether and get one lowlevel API on all OS platforms.
 

Caayn

Member
Was to be expected, W7 feature support stops in January after all.
Microsoft. I expected nothing else. It's their usual m.o.: Creating incompatibility in their old systems by arbitrarily not incorporating newer drivers and file types, thereby periodically forcing everyone to buy new versions of their OS and Office software.

I am using Microsoft's software as rarely as possible for this reason and introduce others to Libre Office and Ubuntu (or Debian) whenever I can. Hopefully Valve's Steam OS will make more people give Linux a chance. It's an awesome and liberating feeling no longer having to pay the Microsoft tax. Give it a try.
Jup, because no longer porting features over to (at that Time) 6 year old software is such a crime. And you're conveniently forgetting that there already is an OS on the market that'll support dx12? W8.x

Also good for you that you use open source.
 
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