sixteen-bit
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This is gonna be good
EternalGamer said:I know. And they did that for four games. I thought NT would be an opportunity to do something NEW the way those sequels I listed above did.
Juggling guys and doing air combos, throwing guys to the ground to boost further in the air and keep a combo going was fun.
I overstated when I said I totally don't like juggle/combo based gameplay. I should have just said I like it less than other gameplay styles. I may not have been great at DMC, but I played DMC 4 enough to SSS rank many of the stages and at least S rank most of them. But I already DID that. A new dev and a franchise reboot should be a chance to do something new, not do the same thing all over again.
Sweet zombie, Jesus!lowhighkang_LHK said:Some True Style 4 Contest Vids:
Brea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE&feature=related
These are just a few. There were a ton of entries for TST4.
Dahbomb said:Yes (not scores though), there IS a competitive DMC scene which started right after DMC3. It's usually labeled under something like "True Style Tournament". I used to judge these back in the day (think of them like the Olympics only players have to style and show top execution for marks/points/rankings).
TheSeks said:HiI'mDaisyMinato:|.jpg
No... really... There's a competitive DMC scene?
Same. I'm personally not going to buy it, even at 1% of the price, for those reasons (saying they fucked up the backstory is an understatement). But I'm more than willing to admit this is a good move, even if it doesn't amount to anything.GuardianE said:Yeah, I mean, as far as I'm concerned as a self-admitted fanboy, they fucked up a backstory and characters that I cared about. So, that's not really forgiveable.
Still, this shows promise, and I'm more than willing to acknowledge that this is a step in the right direction.
First Name said:Same. I'm personally not going to buy it, even at 1% of the price, for those reasons (saying they fucked up the backstory is an understatement). But I'm more than willing to admit this is a good move, even if it doesn't amount to anything.
Even if this is a marketing move it's a smart marketing move. Since the rest of their PR has been so mind-shatteringly abysmal this shows that they either got someone competent to run the marketing or someone got slapped hard in the face.
EternalGamer said:this is definitely not the case. Especially with games like Metriod Prime, RE4 and FF12.
Well, I probably will. Like I said, new dev and franchise reboot were the reasons I was interested. I was hoping it would just play exactly like the earlier games.
I don't really begrudge you guys your hardcore fighting game like mechanics (though I do wonder why you want the same thing again and again). It is isn't for me. I also fear it is no longer for a mainstream audience and by trying to stick too close to what you guys want, the series will shrink its audience, not expand it.
Incidentally, of the games you mentioned most of them are also heavily combo driven. There are few third person combat games that aren't. That is one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much (90 hours in, at level 95). No other game (except Demon Souls) plays like it. I would say the same of Enslaved. I liked it because the mix of long and short range (often in the same battle) and the color coded fights made it unique. Most action games are just trying to be God of War.
Just frames are only a classification type of an input window. They are basically a way for the game to convey to you that they are required. So having 10x the amount in one game doesn't mean much. Typically, they involve inputs regarding game actions that do not rely solely on the player, such as RG which is on hit confirm.badcrumble said:Yes and no. Some DMC4 moves are definitely easier to pull off, but it also has a lot more just-frame stuff than DMC3's got, IMO.
Dahbomb said:The ones that I know who are going are definitely "top" or known players. So yeah NT is picking them right at the very least. And they are from UK too so yeah... quesion #2 and #3 are sort of invalid.
Top DMC players are all over ranging from US, UK, Europe, Singapore, Japan, China even South Asia where I am from.
Ah, yeah, I know what you meant now, sorry. Agreed.gunbo13 said:Just frames are only a classification type of an input window. They are basically a way for the game to convey to you that they are required. So having 10x the amount in one game doesn't mean much. Typically, they involve inputs regarding game actions that do not rely solely on the player, such as RG which is on hit confirm.
When it comes to windows, especially turbo mode in DMC3SE, DMC4 is more lenient. I would also argue that a lot of the time the JC hit-box is larger, probably more pronounced regarding distance to the enemy. DMC3 requires some really tough over-head positioning for a lot of JCs and a lot of moves put you out of the hit-box. There are also a lot more variety in DMC4 to continue to maintain position for JC as well as continue strings, especially aerials. Nero's buster is a no brainier here but things like Dante's pistol juggle really assist in aerials. Dante does not have an assist like pistol juggle in DMC3 and you have no style switching.
Basically, DMC3 is very restrictive and extremely unforgiving. A slight delay on input means you dropped the soap. DMC3 combos are all about fighting the game engine itself. DMC4 is all about utilizing the engine to continue to expand upon it. I would argue that DMC3 is harder to master with advanced techniques initially but easier to go beyond that. DMC4 is the exact opposite. DMC3 is also more planned due to the restrictions and DMC4 is more freestyle. I would say the overall difficulty is higher in DMC4 but only due to how expansive it is, not mechanically.
FYI, I'm talking purely from a combo standpoint. Talking standard mechanics is a different discussion and one that I'm not sure I can even do anymore.
TheExodu5 said:They clearly want DmC to stack up, which makes it all the more sad how they can't seem to realize how important 60fps is to the overall experience.
lowhighkang_LHK said:Is first see if there are visual and auditory telegraphed attacks. I know there seems to be visual, but I'm not sure on auditory since we haven't had a good gameplay video that had sound.
If there are no auditory cues on enemy attacks, then shit is already fucked.
The latter is basically what they are claiming they are doing with this game.Clear said:Display framerate is not easily adjustable upwards, if everything has been budgeted to 30 its basically fixed without stripping down and rebuilding every asset - which quite clearly isn't going to happen at this late stage.
On the other hand, uprating input polling and internal physics/logic to 60 should be doable, and should have the exact same benefits to "feel".
Dahbomb said:The latter is basically what they are claiming they are doing with this game.
It depends on what you mean by "stack up." Do flashy combo videos which have a lenient difficulty curve resonate the same as ones that have a steep one? If you don't know the difficulty behind the combos, then would you even know? And wouldn't flashiness with a low curve be better for mainstream players so they themselves can pull off some flashy stuff?TheExodu5 said:They clearly want DmC to stack up, which makes it all the more sad how they can't seem to realize how important 60fps is to the overall experience.
Frame-rate isn't directly defined to inputs. You can have the system recognize inputs at its own prerogative. However, frame-rate is involved with the animations and how they respond to these inputs. Players react to the visuals in order to link inputs. If the animations are not scaled properly, then to maintain 60fps type inputs, the player is almost filling in the blanks. This is quite unrealistic. Therefore, the only option is to scale the animations accordingly and adjusting input windows. This logically would result in a lot less depth and versatility in the engine.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:Do you have any idea of what the end result will be?
I don't know a great deal about these things but isn't it the closer they make it "feel" like 60FPS, the less depth will be there to manipulate by high level players anyway?
GuardianE said:The combat evolved with each game. It grew and expanded in a very natural way. The combat of DMC is the core of the series. What you're saying is like arguing that Mario shouldn't be about platforming. The equivalent of saying the next Dark Souls should have juggles and guns. You're compromising the identity of an IP just to try something different... and it's a far lazier than advancing the actual state of the series.
I'm sorry, but that's just plain silly.
You didn't want a DMC game (and quite frankly, you may still get your wish). Go ahead and wait for Ninja Theory's next game.
gunbo13 said:It depends on what you mean by "stack up." Do flashy combo videos which have a lenient difficulty curve resonate the same as ones that have a steep one? If you don't know the difficulty behind the combos, then would you even know? And wouldn't flashiness with a low curve be better for mainstream players so they themselves can pull off some flashy stuff?
I'm from the school where I don't like to keep things hidden. Top level DMC combos are extremely difficult. I could write a long dissertation on the facts behind this but I will spare everyone. But I only know of this difficulty curve by putting in the time to explore the mechanics in the same way. However, I'm not ignorant enough to believe this is a common viewpoint. So appreciation is extremely relative when it comes to these games. And combos stacking up to "standards" would involve defining what you mean by "standards".
With 30fps you are extremely limited to what you can do on the mechanics side. But does that really matter? Allowing large windows, easy hit-boxes, and slower inputs could result in exactly what you see in the best combo videos. It is just more forgiving but it won't change the result if the developers design the engine in that regard. You'll just have no steep jump from novice -> expert where these combo videos look mind-blowing instead of respectable.
From my perspective, I have no interest in the simplification of the combat system designed around 30fps. But you really don't have much of a choice if you want the results to be the same as the best of the DMC players. And as I said, most spectators won't know the difference and could be very pleased they can replicate most of it.
gunbo13 said:Therefore, the only option is to scale the animations accordingly and adjusting input windows. This logically would result in a lot less depth and versatility in the engine.
I really don't know much about that outside from reading articles about it.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:I don't know a great deal about these things but isn't it the closer they make it "feel" like 60FPS, the less depth will be there to manipulate by high level players anyway?
Not necessarily. What if the top DMC players find it to be unplayable?sleepykyo said:It's a good move, even if the performance issues aren't going to be addressed.
SapientWolf said:Not necessarily. What if the top DMC players find it to be unplayable?
EternalGamer said:No, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't have melee/gun play based combat. That would be akin to saying Mario shouldn't jump.
But what I know is that if they cater to the hardcore fans, they are going to want it to play more and more like the old games. That is not a "reboot" in my opinion. At that point, you may as well just call it Devil May Cry 5.
Ninja Gaiden was a reboot. It played like neither the NES games nor the arcade games.
Fallout 3 was a reboot. Plays nothing like the earlier games.
Castlevania: Lord of Shadows was a reboot. It played more like God of War than any older Castlevania game.
X-Com is a reboot, no longer a turn based strategy game.
Tomb Raider reboot looks to make the game way more like Uncharted and unlike past games.
I like franchises that do this. That take chances and often it turns out well. With the new art direction and a totally new team and a new "number one" by titling it just "Devil May Cry," I was under the impression that a real reboot was what we were getting.
Instead, if they actually listen to the hardcore in these play tests, we will get Devil May Cry 5, a reboot in name only.
No interpolation. Motion blur maybe but what you are currently seeing is likely the end result.SapientWolf said:And 60fps isn't a feel, it's a look. The look is just not gonna be there unless they're doing some kind of motion interpolation.
Dahbomb said:I think I know how they got our e-mail addresses.
Going to follow it up in a bit.
Somebody close to Dahbomb leaked it. I'm calling it now.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:thats the most puzzling and somewhat creepy thing.
They are but just like a fighting game they are the ones who explore the combat engine and push it to it's limit, then share their findings with the world. Other people who aren't as skilled can view and admire these feats of skill and get a grip with the depth in the game as well as having a high point to strive towards.Idk I always thought hardcore DMC players were a minorities minority...dunno why there input would matter to much as almost noone plays the game that way.
gunbo13 said:Somebody close to Dahbomb leaked it. I'm calling it now.
Dahbomb said:I am 90% sure they got it through the DMC3 advance combat FAQ on Gamefaqs.
For those who know which people worked on the FAQ with me, you will know who the other person is who got the e-mail.
sn00zer said:Idk I always thought hardcore DMC players were a minorities minority...dunno why there input would matter to much as almost noone plays the game that way.
I guess but it just comes down to being nitpicky....unless the game is broken on a very basic level its all just going to come down to preference....its like people noticing the difference between 2xAA and 16xAA or people who see screen tearing and those who don't. Those who do see the difference will say its the end of the world when everyone else will be just fine.GuardianE said:I understand this train of thought.
However, you have to remember that the more advanced concepts of DMC still effect the game on a basic level. Physics, float time, hit detection, knockback... these are things that you don't think about as a casual player, but you'll feel a difference if there's a problem when you're playing. You might not realize what exactly feels wrong, but it's still there in the back of your mind.
You're right. An infinitesmally small portion of gamers play like Brea. But her contributions are a significantly deeper analysis of the game changes the game on a fundamental level.
sn00zer said:I guess but it just comes down to being nitpicky....unless the game is broken on a very basic level its all just going to come down to preference....its like people noticing the difference between 2xAA and 16xAA or people who see screen tearing and those who don't. Those who do see the difference will say its the end of the world when everyone else will be just fine.
Dahbomb said:The latter is basically what they are claiming they are doing with this game.
thetrin said:When I was growing up, arcades were all about fighting games. Arcades haven't been about beating high scores since like 1987.