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[Graciaus]

Game would have been much better if you could just pick Dante every stage. Can't even do that after beating the game which kills replays. He just controls better and is more fun to play.

Hopefully a SE fixes that and adds vergil.

 

[Danjin44]

it's not mostly on me, i've already given my argument.

Like I said in my last post the combat system designed such a way anyone can pick up and play and still have fun and others who want more depth can explore it like this.....


Is your choice if you want to engage with the mechanics.

 

[Astral Dog]

Lol no, DMC 5 isn't boring you are

 

[manfestival]

I played it a few weeks ago and I agree. The game is pretty boring. I had little desire to finish the game so I returned it to my roommate. Pretty disappointing considering I have played 1.3,4 and DmC. from my experience this ranks at the bottom of that list.

 

[Whitesnake]

The entire reason fo DMC’s existence is to make a game where you can style on enemies and feel great doing it.

If you have 0 drive to attempt to do anything other than spam triangle, that’s 100% on you. You have nigh-unlimited tools at your disposal and choose to use only the single most basic tool and then claim that it’s boring.

 

[bilderberg]

The entire reason fo DMC’s existence is to make a game where you can style on enemies and feel great doing it.

If you have 0 drive to attempt to do anything other than spam triangle, that’s 100% on you. You have nigh-unlimited tools at your disposal and choose to use only the single most basic tool and then claim that it’s boring.

It's not on me. Styling on enemies shouldn't just exist in a vacuum. It's supposed to serve a point. I never felt like in DMC1 or 3 I just went out of my way to S rank encounters because it was "just a fun thing to go after a high score." I did it as a natural byproduct of trying to beat the game. I didn't want to get hit because taking damage was extremely lethal in those game, and the faster I could clear a room of enemies the better chance I had of not dying. Naturally those things lead to high ranks, not because I made it a goal to get a high rank. Getting a high rank should just be a side effect of completing a goal, it's not supposed to be the only goal in and of its self. Maybe it is for like 1% of people, but most people's ambitions are to beat the game, and the fault shouldn't lie solely with the player if the game allows triangle spam.

 

[Shifty]

Ninja Gaiden 1 or 2. The games give you a fighting game's worth of moves for every weapon's move list and your incentive for learning each weapon isn't necessarily to get a higher score, but to make you more powerful to get through the game. You can't just "y....y,y. y,y,y,y,y" in those games. DMC fans seem to think that's a fault with the player and not the game its self. This is an issue for me in every DMC game, much less of an issue for DMC 1 and 3 because those games were at least challenging enough that you would naturally expand your move list, and because the exploration in those games were good.

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden is pretty special in that regard, Black in particular. Enemies are super aggressive, need to be opened up, will actively try to open you up, and so on. It's like a single-player fighting game, though I think NG is the only series to ever nail that feeling.

But, much like a fighting game, that focus on defense means it's rarely ever safe to bring out full combo strings. There's no way you're hitting some of the longer ones without putting yourself in danger unless there's only one easily-staggered enemy left, so the focus shifts to calculated strikes, ultimate techniques and the new instakills added in NG2.

That's where DMC's approach differs- because big freestyle combos are the name of the game, the baseline of enemy aggression is way lower. They're a lot more like combo dummies until you hit the harder difficulties, so you have more space to breathe and are encouraged to use that space to learn how to style.

Enemies ruthlessly trying to murder you and comboing to live is totally a thing once you get to Dante Must Die (and Son of Sparda, to a lesser extent), but the damage output and enemy management you need in order to effectively prioritize and eliminate threats in that mode is so high that you'll have no chance unless you've developed a degree of mastery over your character. By the time the gloves come off, there's no more room to learn as you go.

It's tied to the way damage scales across difficulties, since enemies need to live longer in order for the player to get a lot of moves off. I don't think it's off-base to say DMC5 is easier by default, and it never reaches the levels of sadistic brutality on show in DMD 3, but it's better balanced at the higher end of the curve.

People clown on DMC2 because the guns are over powered, but why not just avoid using them?

That's because the overpowered guns aren't the only problem. They fucked up the melee combat to the point where it's not fun or even very practical to style with, so the guns became the path of least resistance.

Spoiler: DMC2 Trivia

The flubbing of DMC2 is actually kind of fascinating- Capcom execs didn't understand the appeal of the first game, and built a new team for 2 without Kamiya in order to knock out another hack'n'slash ASAP and cash in.

They tossed all the good work done in DMC1, so by the time the current series director got on board 3 months from ship date they hadn't even figured out the Stinger. Dante's most fundamental approach tool. And it still sucks in the finished game

Or what if you could beat Metal Gear Rising without ever needing to parry? If the game only penalized you through score for not parrying, but never enough to actually make the game too difficult wouldn't you see that as a problem?

Sure- and you could apply the same argument to blocking in Ninja Gaiden. Both become essential at some point in their respective games. Fucking explosive armadillo.

The same is true of learning how to freestyle combo in DMC, but where those games account for it over the course of one playthrough, DMC's learning curve spans from normal mode all the way up to DMD. You don't get enough red orbs to max out your moveset by the end of a first run, so you're expected to play through sequentially and build up both your character and combo skills as you go.

 

[Neff]

The entire reason fo DMC’s existence is to make a game where you can style on enemies and feel great doing it.

There's plenty of other factors, especially in DMC1. Style only came to the fore in 3/4, and to their credit, they were still enjoyably challenging.

DMC5 feels like a package custom-made to give the everyman a chance to feel like they're in a combo video, regardless of skill. It's stuffed with moves to add cosmetic flair to your juggles, is exceedingly generous with input windows, features enemies which constantly forget to attack conveniently allowing you to scoop them up for your virtual air ballet, and offers a slower pace than previous DMC titles so it's not too intimidating. Oh, and SSS criteria is very forgiving on top of that. Anyone can style on harmless enemies to their heart's content and feel great doing it.

For everyone else who simply wants to enjoy the thrill of overcoming challenge, beating the game, and getting better at beating it, that appeal is sorely lacking in DMC5.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Wait till you play Death Stranding.

 

[Lionel Richie]

It's just a legendary action game that's amazingly deep, looks gorgeous, controls like a dream and doesn't feature retarded amounts of walking.

 

[bilderberg]

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden is pretty special in that regard, Black in particular. Enemies are super aggressive, need to be opened up, will actively try to open you up, and so on. It's like a single-player fighting game, though I think NG is the only series to ever nail that feeling.

But, much like a fighting game, that focus on defense means it's rarely ever safe to bring out full combo strings. There's no way you're hitting some of the longer ones without putting yourself in danger unless there's only one easily-staggered enemy left, so the focus shifts to calculated strikes, ultimate techniques and the new instakills added in NG2.

That's where DMC's approach differs- because big freestyle combos are the name of the game, the baseline of enemy aggression is way lower. They're a lot more like combo dummies until you hit the harder difficulties, so you have more space to breathe and are encouraged to use that space to learn how to style.

Enemies ruthlessly trying to murder you and comboing to live is totally a thing once you get to Dante Must Die (and Son of Sparda, to a lesser extent), but the damage output and enemy management you need in order to effectively prioritize and eliminate threats in that mode is so high that you'll have no chance unless you've developed a degree of mastery over your character. By the time the gloves come off, there's no more room to learn as you go.

It's tied to the way damage scales across difficulties, since enemies need to live longer in order for the player to get a lot of moves off. I don't think it's off-base to say DMC5 is easier by default, and it never reaches the levels of sadistic brutality on show in DMD 3, but it's better balanced at the higher end of the curve.


That's because the overpowered guns aren't the only problem. They fucked up the melee combat to the point where it's not fun or even very practical to style with, so the guns became the path of least resistance.

Spoiler: DMC2 Trivia

The flubbing of DMC2 is actually kind of fascinating- Capcom execs didn't understand the appeal of the first game, and built a new team for 2 without Kamiya in order to knock out another hack'n'slash ASAP and cash in.

They tossed all the good work done in DMC1, so by the time the current series director got on board 3 months from ship date they hadn't even figured out the Stinger. Dante's most fundamental approach tool. And it still sucks in the finished game

Sure- and you could apply the same argument to blocking in Ninja Gaiden. Both become essential at some point in their respective games. Fucking explosive armadillo.

The same is true of learning how to freestyle combo in DMC, but where those games account for it over the course of one playthrough, DMC's learning curve spans from normal mode all the way up to DMD. You don't get enough red orbs to max out your moveset by the end of a first run, so you're expected to play through sequentially and build up both your character and combo skills as you go.

Alright, you make some good points. I think I will start the game over and beat the boss to unlock the higher difficulty and give it another go. With that said, the difficulty wasn't the only thing I'm disliking. I miss the atmosphere, the exploration, the music, DMC's Resident Evil roots... things I enjoyed in DMC 1 and 3 that weren't just strictly about the combat. Which is probably why I've been so hard on the game's combat and difficulty, because what else is their?

 

[ShirAhava]

Boring? So its a standard dmc game then. Good to know.

 

[Mexen]

Aim for SSS each time with a different finishing move.

 

[Helios]

Removing the fixed camera angles robs the series of a surprising amount of its style and personality.

I think this is the first time I heard anyone praise DMC's fixed cameras

Well it flopped so there’s that...

I'mma need some sources on that, fam

Always found it interesting how much the internet went crazy for DMc5 and Kingdom Hearts 3 for both games to crater a week after release.

That literally happens with every single-player release. People play the game and than start talking about the next releases. Is there anyone still talking about RE2? The only reason people are still talking about RDR2 is because of the PC port. ETC.

 

[Bathtub Fart]

Agreed OP. Game was uninteresting to me 40 minutes in. These games are all about locking on and spamming moves. Sure, sure, you can do crazy looking combos but who cares if spamming the same stuff over and over works. Same problem with Nier Automata, except people think that programmed robots having "feelings" and an identity crisis is somehow genius, compelling, and deep. Bullshit.

 

[kunonabi]

I personally couldn't get past the godawful character designs.

 

[888]

Gets great with Dante but really the level design is where the game fails so hard.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Holy shit.

It's a good thing I've already played this game and know first-hand it's awesome, otherwise I wouldn't even give it a go, listening to you guys.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

No threat title pun?

LTTP: Devil Too Bored To Care 5? I guess thats not a pun

y’all slipping

 

[lyan]

Ninja Gaiden 1 or 2. The games give you a fighting game's worth of moves for every weapon's move list and your incentive for learning each weapon isn't necessarily to get a higher score, but to make you more powerful to get through the game. You can't just "y....y,y. y,y,y,y,y" in those games. DMC fans seem to think that's a fault with the player and not the game its self. This is an issue for me in every DMC game, much less of an issue for DMC 1 and 3 because those games were at least challenging enough that you would naturally expand your move list, and because the exploration in those games were good. People clown on DMC2 because the guns are over powered, but why not just avoid using them?

Or what if you could beat Metal Gear Rising without ever needing to parry? If the game only penalized you through score for not parrying, but never enough to actually make the game too difficult wouldn't you see that as a problem?

LOL I actually beat MGR not knowing how to consciously parry, only relied on iframes from defensive offense (or whatever its called). I also didn't know how to use those healing kits until a long struggle with the Monsoon fight (you can imagine why).

 

[Nikana]

You clearly don't understand the style meter

The game doesn't force it upon you because then the easier difficulties would be very frustrating for newer or not seasoned players.

The point of the style is to tell you when you are doing good with combat because if you're achieving SSS then you're not only understanding and using different combos which requires different timing, you're also dodging correctly which is more than essential in harder difficulty.

So don't blame the game because you don't understand game design.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

The only DMC I couldn't bother to finish unlike every other other where multiple playthroughs were fun.
The style, character designs and overall atmosphere is just not for me.

And don't get me started on that level design - starts decent and goes down the drain fast.

 

[Petrae]

Sadly, I had to give up on DMCV after it triggered my Xbox One X fans to spin so loudly that I thought I was about to take off. What I did play was okay— stylish cutscenes and so-so gameplay— but I wish I’d gotten to see more.

 

[DESTROYA]

Well it flopped so there’s that...

Last I heard they have sold over 2 million copies......I wouldn’t call that a flop.

 

[bilderberg]

You clearly don't understand the style meter

The game doesn't force it upon you because then the easier difficulties would be very frustrating for newer or not seasoned players.

The point of the style is to tell you when you are doing good with combat because if you're achieving SSS then you're not only understanding and using different combos which requires different timing, you're also dodging correctly which is more than essential in harder difficulty.

So don't blame the game because you don't understand game design.

I've been criticizing the game design so don't tell me I just don't understand it.

 

[Shifty]

Alright, you make some good points. I think I will start the game over and beat the boss to unlock the higher difficulty and give it another go. With that said, the difficulty wasn't the only thing I'm disliking. I miss the atmosphere, the exploration, the music, DMC's Resident Evil roots... things I enjoyed in DMC 1 and 3 that weren't just strictly about the combat. Which is probably why I've been so hard on the game's combat and difficulty, because what else is their?

Good luck

And honestly, I agree with some of these things too. It's a real shame to have lost the RE puzzle and environment design on account of the gradual shift from 'demon hunter in a haunted castle' toward pure 'extreme action'.
I put that down to the director switch, since Itsuno was essentially a fighting game guy until Capcom moved him moved onto DMC2. Woulda been fascinating to see where the series went if Kamiya had been at the helm.

The first game even had super-specific enemy weaknesses to discover that would gradually fill out its bestiary, which I thought was rad- exactly what a demon hunter would do.
As of 5 the only one still in the game is hitting a Sin Scissors' weapon just before it attacks, then quickly shooting it in the face for an instant kill and a ton of style meter, but 3 and 4 didn't have that so it's better than nothing i guess.

I do like the new music though, cheesy as it is. Tying it to the style ranking makes it feel really rewarding when you get the hang of all your moves.

There's plenty of other factors, especially in DMC1. Style only came to the fore in 3/4, and to their credit, they were still enjoyably challenging.

Eh, 1 tried its level best to make style work, though the meter seemed pretty nonsensical in a lot of situations. There's no arguing the sudden jump in mechanical depth and combo focus in 3/4 though.

DMC5 feels like a package custom-made to give the everyman a chance to feel like they're in a combo video, regardless of skill. It's stuffed with moves to add cosmetic flair to your juggles, is exceedingly generous with input windows, features enemies which constantly forget to attack conveniently allowing you to scoop them up for your virtual air ballet, and offers a slower pace than previous DMC titles so it's not too intimidating. Oh, and SSS criteria is very forgiving on top of that. Anyone can style on harmless enemies to their heart's content and feel great doing it.

Yeah, the skill floor is definitely lower this time around, but the skill ceiling is also considerably higher because it has the most complex movesets in the whole series.
There's never been a better 3D combo sandbox, ever. Fancy moves that let new players look cool are all the more effective in the hands of someone skilled.

For everyone else who simply wants to enjoy the thrill of overcoming challenge, beating the game, and getting better at beating it, that appeal is sorely lacking in DMC5.

This I disagree with, because Dante Must Die is legitimately hard. There's challenge to be had, though it's accurate to say the game back-loads its difficulty for the sake of giving new players a chance.
Occupational hazard of getting a DMC game with an AAA budget in 2019, tbh.

These games are all about locking on and spamming moves. Sure, sure, you can do crazy looking combos but who cares if spamming the same stuff over and over works.

This sounds like the definition of "it's not for you". Ninja Gaiden, Sekiro and Nioh are considerably better choices if you need a game to be putting the boots to you at all times in order to enjoy it.

Same problem with Nier Automata, except people think that programmed robots having "feelings" and an identity crisis is somehow genius, compelling, and deep. Bullshit.

NieR's combat had its own problems. It feels tight and has great animations, but its skill ceiling and mechanical depth doesn't come close to something like DMC or Bayo.
And that's without considering how the RPG mechanics gradually trivialize the battle system.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Last I heard they have sold over 2 million copies......I wouldn’t call that a flop.

Yeah, it didn't flop.

 

[Nikana]

I've been criticizing the game design so don't tell me I just don't understand it.

I just did and you clearly don't.

 

[decisions]

The game was awesome, didn’t flop which Capcom has stated multiple times during earnings reports by this point. Huge graphical/technical leap for the series that makes me smile when I think about it.

As a huge DMC fan 3 and 4 are both better though. V was an absolute failure and I hate being forced to play as him, in fact that’s probably why I’ve struggled to replay it since launch. I also can’t believe you can’t switch DBs with Nero after beating the game.

Then again, these obvious improvements are probably left to get us to buy SE.

 

[bilderberg]

I just did and you clearly don't.

Except you didn't counter argue anything i've said. Your take isn't original and i've made my point against it numerous times already.

 

[semiconscious]

bailed after the first boss. as vapid & soulless a game as i've attempted to play this gen. as a fan of the previous games (including dmc4), i was shocked by just how little i cared about anything going on. it felt like a combination of devil may cry & idiocracy...

 

[Nikana]

Except you didn't counter argue anything i've said. Your take isn't original and i've made my point against it numerous times already.

Cool story bro.

 

[NahaNago]

I think mostly that they got the interesting main characters and action down but they need to work on making the world more interesting to go through plus more interesting/charming enemies.

 

[Roufianos]

Yea, first game in the series that I didn't finish.

It just got super boring, especially the environments. The mechanics were obviously great but I stopped finding the combat scenarios fun.

Also, V has to be the worst idea in a AAA release since the Batmobile.

 

[Roberts]

Probably the first AAA game I didn't finish in a loooong time (HZD is another, but i will definitely get back to it). The world is repetitive and boring, the characters and their antique macho dialogue annoying - that took away any motivation to care about the story and stakes. Unfortunately, the gameplay is just not my thing, either. At first I tried to learn all the combos and use them, but eventually found myself going through levels simply by button mashing.

 

[Outrunner]

I played through it and found it boring too. Looks impressive and all but it's too linear and too repetitive.

 

[Nester99]

Agreed, boring.
beat It once and traded it in.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Reading through this thread I'm glad I skipped this!

And I like character action like Bayonetta 1&2!

 

[SweetShark]

With all honesty the only problem I had which got me affected was the shitty story.
Don't get me wrong, the other stories of the games wasn't better, but this one.....urrg!!!

Spoiler: Story Spoiler!!!

Yep, all this was because Vergil was an asshole once again. Not something different or a plot twist. No no no no. Let just make Vergil atone for his sons by fighting demons and forget he just killed every single person, men, women, childs, in a whole city, no, CITIES around the world!!!

 

[yoyo67]

I agree, it was boring and I stopped halfway through. After Bayonetta 2 I was excited to see what DMC V was going to bring to the table. I guess I'll just wait for Bayonetta 3.

 

[Sterling88]

Something something 'git gud'.
I'm just glad the Japanese at least aren't bowing down to SJWs to 'de-sexy' character designs like you're seeing with western devs.

 

[Life]

@OP that's exactly when I called it quits too. I was baffled by the attempt to try and make V seems very different...and ultimately letting the character auto-battle really.

Game got stale in about 1 or 2 hours for me and I knew it wasn't gonna change throughout its missions. What a glorified bore.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I guess I did too. I played majority of the DMC series, and with this one I just.... stopped playing. Which is really bizarre for me. Not only that, but I didn't care to hop back in. It wasn't bad, it felt fine, it's just that that's it.

With the previous games I always felt an urge to keep going, keep playing. With this one all of that was absent. I was blaming myself assuming it was just not something I was into at the time. Even if I was ALWAYS into previous DMCs.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one!

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Strangely enough, DMC5 was arguably my favorite installment of the franchise. I like the variety in the 3 character’s fighting styles, the gameplay to me was stylish and fun and the graphics were gorgeous. Controversial probably, but I thought the gameplay mechanics decimated the latest God of War.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

so yeah DMC & Kingdom Hearts is shit.

Uh... no.

 

[bilderberg]

Why are you asking if you should continue playing a game you're not enjoying? If you don't like it, turn the thing off.

the game could get better

 

[TeddyShardik]

Wat?

You must be the most boring person on earth.
The whole series is about combat creativity. Not caring about ranks is like not caring about which place you got in Mario Kart.

The challenge is not beating the game. The challenge is doing it by looking cool and getting an S rank.

This thread is the worst.

 

[SaturnSaturn]

No, but so what if I did? This is just something I have completely disagreed on with DMC fans. The combat in these games should stand up on it's own, regardless of how stylish or difficult the player wants to make it. My incentive for getting a high stylish rank should be to avoid dying, not just for the sake of getting a high score. I couldn't give two shits about rank or score. I'm here to beat the game, and if I can beat the game doing the most mundane trivial stuff that's a fault with the game, not me.

Now that isn't totally true on higher difficulties, but at least DMC1 and DMC3 were hard enough right from the start. I'll look for an unlock all difficulties cheat code because that may be the only thing saving this game at the moment.

DMC5 is my GOTY

I am sure you could beat the arcade mode in tekken by just spamming buttons and never learning to backdash but you would not enjoy it unless you sat down and learned combos and the main mechanics.

Same applies to DMC5. It's much more to get style points and combos as opposed to the older ones where they where a RE hybrid with puzzles and adventuring.

 

[rofif]

It's in my backlog but there is nothing driving me to play it. Kinda like Days gone.... but I will sooner get to Days gone than this I guess

 

[bilderberg]

Wat?

You must be the most boring person on earth.
The whole series is about combat creativity. Not caring about ranks is like not caring about which place you got in Mario Kart.

The challenge is not beating the game. The challenge is doing it by looking cool and getting an S rank.

This thread is the worst.

That's dumb