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[Damaniel]

I believe you buy characters @ $5 per. I think there are 8 buyable ones.

And KI is the only one of the launch titles where the microtransaction scheme they've chosen actually fits. They're giving you the game for free with one character, and most people who take fighting games seriously generally stick to 1 or 2 core characters that they learn all the moves for. This system allows those people to spend $5-$10 and get the 'full' experience that they want. Unlocking all the characters can be done for less than the cost of a normal AAA game, for completionists who want the whole roster. As an anti-microtransaction, and generally anti-F2P person, I don't find KI's system particularly offensive.

But the booster packs and grinds that Microsoft has decided to put into all of their first party titles? Bullshit. Makes me even happier I cancelled my preorder - I don' t need a box with a monetization scheme like that stinking up the game room.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Doesn't really matter if they change the economy or keep it the same. The simple fact that you can buy your way to something that previously had to be earned is game changing and game breaking in its own right. GTA6 is a competitive game online, and this is 100% pure pay2win. I don't really see what people get out of this, it's like fixed sporting events. What's the point?

Its clear you haven't played GT5

The rarity of cars will be lost sadly I agree. Its not game breaking at all though because in GT the most expensive car does not mean the best. In fact the 20 million cars can be easily beaten by cars that cost 120k and tuned appropriately. In GT tuning and the driver are far more important to your performance on track then a cars cost.

Is it apparent the economy in Forza has been changed?

From the reviews yes.

Yeah, we don't know yet. Gt has always been a grind as well.

Notoriously known to be grindy.

You managed to say what I said in half the words, you beautiful bastard.

 

[makako]

Before I get outraged I need to know if these games unfairly make the grind more tedious than we are used to from games. If it's the same grind but some chump can pay for an easy out I don't give a shit. If they purposely gimp the grind to try to force you to use money then fuck them, I'm not buying those games.

as far as i'm concerned this is our biggest fear. I've been reading a lot of comments about this issue of microrelations and i've become familiar with some of our major fears (some of them are reality already and some other are on the way of turning reality)

As the first and biggest one i'll say it's the fear that developers will make grinding so unbearable, even more unbearable than on Hoshigami (for those who ventured on this game, psx release, i never tryed DS one) that we won't be able to ignore microtransitions anymore, this meaning we can get whatever we're trying to by grinding, but we would have to grind 3~4, maybe 10 times more than we are used to (and in some hardcore grinding games this is unthinkable) if they use this mean we won't have an option if we want to 100% the game (or get a determined weapon/car/gear/whatever) if we don't pay for it (or spend 400+ hours on the same grinding method/spot (fighting over the same enemies/ racing the same track/ whatever painful method that might be) we won't get it...

Now imagine this applied to games where grinding is already a concept that the game itself takes as a priority (e.g. Monster Hunter) , now let's pretend Crapcom is a terrible company that just wants money from their costumers not giving a single to them (let's just pretend, ok?! ) and now Capcom realizes they can make even more money on MH, because it has a huge fanbase and has the most unbearable grinding on all capcom's game library. Now all capcom has to do is create a new overpowered armor/weapon set that needs 1x whatevername stone and the droprate on that stone is 1/53430534 and the only monster that drops it takes something like 40 min to kill with the highest G rank set (best set in game)... you don't need to be a genious to know that you probably will never be able to acquire this item by the regular methods (grinding) ... now capcom makes a "cash shop" on the village and after you've beaten the game you can buy that stone for $10 each. There we have a problem! And that's what i fear!

 

[Meier]

To be fair, this makes me a lil jealous that there are this many exclusive and/or first party titles at launch. Sony dropped the ball a bit on that front.

 

[Orca]

From the reviews yes.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. You've always had to grind and save up to get the best cars, and more to have them customized the way you want, no different from Gran Turismo.

as far as i'm concerned this is our biggest fear. I've been reading a lot of comments about this issue of microrelations and i've become familiar with some of our major fears (some of them are reality already and some other are on the way of turning reality)

As the first and biggest one i'll say it's the fear that developers will make grinding so unbearable, even more unbearable than on Hoshigami (for those who ventured on this game, psx release, i never tryed DS one) that we won't be able to ignore microtransitions anymore, this meaning we can get whatever we're trying to by grinding, but we would have to grind 3~4, maybe 10 times more than we are used to (and in some hardcore grinding games this is unthinkable) if they use this mean we won't have an option if we want to 100% the game (or get a determined weapon/car/gear/whatever) if we don't pay for it (or spend 400+ hours on the same grinding method/spot (fighting over the same enemies/ racing the same track/ whatever painful method that might be) we won't get it...

Now imagine this applied to games where grinding is already a concept that the game itself takes as a priority (e.g. Monster Hunter) , now let's pretend Crapcom is a terrible company that just wants money from their costumers not giving a single to them (let's just pretend, ok?! ) and now Capcom realizes they can make even more money on MH, because it has a huge fanbase and has the most unbearable grinding on all capcom's game library. Now all capcom has to do is create a new overpowered armor/weapon set that needs 1x whatevername stone and the droprate on that stone is 1/53430534 and the only monster that drops it takes something like 40 min to kill with the highest G rank set (best set in game)... you don't need to be a genious to know that you probably will never be able to acquire this item by the regular methods (grinding) ... now capcom makes a "cash shop" on the village and after you've beaten the game you can buy that stone for $10 each. There we have a problem! And that's what i fear!

EA did that two (or more) years ago with NHL. To unlock ratings boosts you either bought them or fulfilled goals. Most of the goals were completely unattainable - like getting three straight shutouts in EASHL while playing as the goaltender.

 

[jaypah]

To be fair, this makes me a lil jealous that there are this many exclusive and/or first party titles at launch. Sony dropped the ball a bit on that front.

Me too but I've still been having a lot of fun with my 3rd party games and Knack + Resogun is pretty sweet.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. You've always had to grind and save up to get the best cars, and more to have them customized the way you want, no different from Gran Turismo.

This is all I'm trying to understand. I've only ever gotten deep into GT, never played Forza extensively.

 

[Gaz_RB]

These microtransactions in games that you have already paid for is where I draw the line...

It's fine if the game can function independent of the boosts, but it seems like they're starting to build game systems around the microtransactions instead of the other way around. For instance, I have no problem with the time saver pack in AC4 because you get all that stuff in fun, regular gameplay, and it doesn't feel like needless grind to push you over into wanting to buy more stuff.

 

[inky]

I love that the random booster micro-transaction justification has become so common that invariably everyone repeats it from memory in every thread now: "well, yes, if you pay you could get a bit ahead or unlock stuff sooner, but you can also get stuff just by grinding playing a little longer!" "this is just for people who don't want to wait, you don't have to pay" etc. etc.

When little by little this is permeating every single title and even changing game design. I'm not even saying I'm above all that, I mean, I try to be, but it is just everywhere nowadays.

 

[Orca]

These microtransactions in games that you have already paid for is where I draw the line...

It's fine if the game can function independent of the boosts, but it seems like they're starting to build game systems around the microtransactions instead of the other way around. For instance, I have no problem with the time saver pack in AC4 because you get all that stuff in fun, regular gameplay, and it doesn't feel like needless grind to push you over into wanting to buy more stuff.

What's the difference though? Someone that wants that top car obviously likes racing, so having to save up their winnings from 10 races to buy it shouldn't be any more of a grind than doing that 'fun, regular gameplay' in AC4, right?

Personally I don't really care if they offer the ability to shortcut content in single player modes for people who don't have the time to dedicate to it. If they want to bypass actually playing the game, they're only changing the experience - I was going to say hurting, but if they don't want to wait it's probably more 'hurting' it to make them grind out races in a car they hate - for themselves.

I'm not a fan of 'buy the best car/weapon/armor for online' when those things grant a clear advantage though.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Why is assuming they don't have this policy any better than assuming they do? Which upcoming games don't have microtransactions?

Dead Rising 3. Zoo Tycoon.

 

[kpaadet]

Why do people keep saying this? MS claiming KI is F2P does not make it F2P. 1 character for free is a glorified demo, not F2P.

Can you play it for free as long as you want against other players? If yes then I consider it free to play.

 

[Version 3.0]

Dead Rising 3. Zoo Tycoon.

So...franchises not owned by Microsoft?

You know very well that's not the same thing.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I think we should drop the micro and call it transactions.

 

[Damaniel]

I think we should drop the micro and call it transactions.

Yep - those token prices in Forza definitely fall solidly into 'macrotransaction' territory. $60 for the game AND DLC AND microtransactions (that actually become less cost-effective the more you buy at once). Seriously, Microsoft can take their greedy monetization scheme and shove it.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

So...franchises not owned by Microsoft?

You know very well that's not the same thing.

You should know that Zoo Tycoon is in fact a Microsoft-owned IP.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I love that the random booster micro-transaction justification has become so common that invariably everyone repeats it from memory in every thread now: "well, yes, if you pay you could get a bit ahead or unlock stuff sooner, but you can also get stuff just by grinding playing a little longer!" "this is just for people who don't want to wait, you don't have to pay" etc. etc.

When little by little this is permeating every single title and even changing game design. I'm not even saying I'm above all that, I mean, I try to be, but it is just everywhere nowadays.

The writing was on the wall when nearly every game released started to have "RPG elements" which more or less meant "filling bars".

 

[QaaQer]

I love that the random booster micro-transaction justification has become so common that invariably everyone repeats it from memory in every thread now: "well, yes, if you pay you could get a bit ahead or unlock stuff sooner, but you can also get stuff just by grinding playing a little longer!" "this is just for people who don't want to wait, you don't have to pay" etc. etc.

When little by little this is permeating every single title and even changing game design. I'm not even saying I'm above all that, I mean, I try to be, but it is just everywhere nowadays.

. and I get the feeling it isn't just shills saying it. Oh well, at least I have 3d world and Link to the past to look forward to.

 

[Nafai1123]

Can you play it for free as long as you want against other players? If yes then I consider it free to play.

Other fighting games had 1 character to play against other people, and they called them demos. You can't unlock anything by grinding, which is typically the definition of F2P. It's a demo with a F2P pricing model.

 

[synce]

Anything confirmed to be as bad as current stuff like Tekken Revolution? In that game you can unlock a random character by playing practically every day for a month or pay $6 and get the character of your choice.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. You've always had to grind and save up to get the best cars, and more to have them customized the way you want, no different from Gran Turismo.



EA did that two (or more) years ago with NHL. To unlock ratings boosts you either bought them or fulfilled goals. Most of the goals were completely unattainable - like getting three straight shutouts in EASHL while playing as the goaltender.

I think offline in FM4 you could make 1 million in a couple of hours if your really good. Most expensive car was 10 million.

From a review it seems 110k is what you earn now in an hour. I'm sure something is wrong because thats a 60 hour grind just to get the Lotus f1.

GT5 has a brutal far far far worse grind to get the 20 million cars (20 hours) . We don't know how much has changed in GT6 but the price if expensive cars remain the same.

 

[Final Boss]

Let's not pretend that ms and sony weren't paying attention to mobile gaming being ruined with this


And people keep paying

 

[Orca]

I think offline in FM4 you could make 1 million in a couple of hours if your really good. Most expensive car was 10 million.

From a review it seems 110k is what you earn now in an hour. I'm sure something is wrong because thats a 60 hour grind just to get the Lotus f1.

GT5 has a brutal far far far worse grind to get the 20 million cars (20 hours) . We don't know how much has changed in GT6 but the price if expensive cars remain the same.

I'd take that 110,000 an hour with a grain of salt. Gamers will find the best money-earning race in no time at all.

 

[MercuryLS]

I don't understand why people continue to give this company money.

 

[michaelx]

Say NO to microtransactions, skip the games or at least buy them used.

 

[EchoedTruth]

I'm sorry but this putting cash shops in games thing is really getting on my damn nerves. I can't stand it at all. You buy the game, you play the game. Games used to be non-denominational, non-prejudiced, and for everyone... now if you're rich you can be a baller in a game without lifting a finger.

 

[notoccupanther]

Disgusting. ..Smh

 

[Tain]

So what's the structure of Crimson Dragon without them? You can't just play through the levels in sequence as you beat them?

 

[sneaky77]

To be fair, this makes me a lil jealous that there are this many exclusive and/or first party titles at launch. Sony dropped the ball a bit on that front.

You're going to be in fifa 80% of the time anyway dude

 

[Chanser]

So what's the structure of Crimson Dragon without them? You can't just play through the levels in sequence as you beat them?

Watch the GB quick look.

 

[Imperfected]

How in god's name is it that Capcom is the one not double-dipping, here? Did I wake up in Bizarro World?

 

[dab0ne]

If it's single player then I don't care. If your willing to pay money to lessen the experience then go for it but in a MP scenario it's unacceptable.

 

[Kosma]

This trend has to be nipped in the bud.

Same goes for Gran Turismo 6.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Well, this isn't even slightly surprising. I mean look at the magnitude of greediness of last generation with it's DLC and microtranscations. Things will only get worst.

 

[Izayoi]

Putting a serious damper on the start of next-gen.

Not like this. ):

 

[Eusis]

I'm sorry but this putting cash shops in games thing is really getting on my damn nerves. I can't stand it at all. You buy the game, you play the game. Games used to be non-denominational, non-prejudiced, and for everyone... now if you're rich you can be a baller in a game without lifting a finger.

In regards to SP I'm more worried about not being able to be "a baller" without investing crazy amounts of time in. If these models were literally just paying for cheats and never EVER progressed further (or it's a compromise for making a game genuinely hard) then the only reason to care it exists is personal pride, but these are introduced to make money and they will see how far they can push people to spend that money.

It just seems like Microsoft's hitting all the wrong notes for me, whether it's more serious issues like this and the DRM they backtracked from, or more superficial stuff like the achievements in apps, with something like Ryse kind of in the middle; it's far from the direction I want from games and I hate how they're advertising their system as "cinematic gaming rivaling Hollywood" which we should've gotten out of our damn system last gen, but Ryse at least is more Crytek and Microsoft likely trying to make the best use of a Kinect game. Nevermind that whole multimedia focus, but to be honest that's less something that gets to me and more a goofy misstep that I think just misjudged the market, so long as they made me happy on the games front I could barely care less.