Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
.Dont give me that anecdotal shit.anotherworld said:
Very tiny minority.
Even less everywhere else in the world.
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Do you consider Wii truly 'next-gen'?
- Thread starter kablooey
- Start date
Very tiny minority.
Even less everywhere else in the world.
anotherworld
Banned
ethelred said:
its a portable machine....not a console BIG DIFFERENCE
anotherworld said:
have you seen Mario Galaxy? I haven't seen anything like that on the GC.
And someone's already revealed that the games at E3 were running on powered up Gamecube dev kits and developers haven't even got final dev kits yet.
I would love to have PS3 graphics as well as Wii-like games at a reasonable price within 2006, but that's impossible. I think we can all see that Nintendo is taking a big risk with Wii and are aiming to expand the market. I would love Nintendo to be able to do all that and take on the high cost of bleeding edge technology at the same time, but it is the market that won't allow that. Have consumers shown that they would readily adopt innovations and new ideas instead of buying endless sequels on home consoles? The question is really more on the companies who can and are using bleeding edge technology, why aren't they willing to take on the risk the Nintendo is with Wii? because the cost is too high for them?
biggreenmachine
The bleeding edge of news reporting...
By the end of 2005 there were 19m households with HDTV sets in the US (17% of total TV households) with 11m of these watching HD broadcasts. At the same time 14% (6.7m) of TV households in Japan were HD ready.
http://www.screendigest.com/reports/06highdeftv/readmore/view.html
anotherworld
Banned
ethelred said:
yes i do have narrow selection, Nintendo still made a bad decision for making slightly more powerfull system. But when the time comes Nintendo will lose again. It happened with the gamecube and it will happen with Wii. Sooner of later will be seeing Mario on Sony or MS machines. Thats its just an opinion. ANd the Virtual Console is another excuse to attract people. THAT JUSt me....
biggreenmachine
The bleeding edge of news reporting...
anotherworld said:
Nintendo is always lookin for excuses to attract people, bastards...
biggreenmachine said:
Thanks for proving my point.
anotherworld said:
We'll see. I'm pretty sure the marketshare breakdown will be quite different this gen than it was the last. PS2 succeeded through the games as well as by being a mass-market machine with a mass-market price riding a technology (DVD) that was primed for takeover. 600$ is just not a mass-market price and Blu-Ray is not DVD.
anotherworld said:
bad decisions, for whom? Nintendo? They are making bucketloads of money and you needn't worry about them. And in a business sense, Nintendo's Wii is a lot smarter than PS3, using innovation that doesn't cost much to differentiate themselves and create a market out of nothing. Sony, on the other hand, has already bled through the nose for the PS3, and if they're anything short of being wildly successful (which isn't unlikely) they would find it tough to make much out of this gen. Nintendo has stuck around longer than anyone else and there is a reason for that.
biggreenmachine
The bleeding edge of news reporting...
ethelred said:
That could also read 17% of gamers have HDTVs.
It's funny how some fanboys take a completely corporate view to evaluate a systems features. "Well I have an HD tv and I love great graphics but I'm glad Nintendo didn't make the Wii HD compatible because the market penetration is really low, nintendo is like sooo smart, it makes me happy."
PkunkFury
Member
anotherworld said:
wow
this is some of the worst logic I've seen displayed on these boards. congrats
I really want to play Metal Gear Solid 4, I'm dying to see how the series pans out. Old Snake is awesome. But Sony decided HD is the imporant focus for next gen. They want to push their Blue-ray DVDs. They made their console $600. I don't have an HDTV. I don't want to buy one until I'm out of school and in a house (for damned good reasons). Now if I want to play MGS4, I'm out tons of money paying for features I may not be able to use for 3 or 4 years. SCREW YOU FOR MAKING DECISIONS FOR ME SONY!!
seriously, these are the startegies the companies chose, and we have to live with them. If you have already jumped to HD, then I can understand if you favor Sony's strategy, but you should realise a lot of people will get nothing out of all that extra graphics processing. And don't try to tell me you've never enjoyed a game that wasn't HD. You're a disgrace to your avatar :lol Skipping HD was a clear headed solution for targetting a mass market audience. Most people won't care about HD assets until an HD movie format is established and hits cheap prices. Even then, I doubt people will rebuy their huge DVD libraries. The average person will be enjoying SD content for years to come, games included, and these average people are in Nintendo's marketing scope. If the Wii price is low, they've probably made the right decision.
honestly I think it's great the consoles split on this issue. I'll buy a Wii when it comes out, and by the time I get bored of it, I'll be ready to purchase an HDTV alongside which ever of the HD consoles looks best at the time. I'm glad I have a choice going in to this gen
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
If Nintendo went for a powerful HD system, chances are you wouldnt have the wiimote technology. And if by the chance that technology also was included in said console, you be paying out of your ass for the total package.Kangu said:
Kangu said:
First, I'm not a Nintendo fanboy. My favorite system is the PSX, and I have twice as many PS2 games as GCN games.
Second, I'm not arguing whether or not it's good for *ME* personally if Nintendo includes a particular feature. I was just refuting the ass-dumb logic that they're trying to control the choices consumers have and that they're doing it for no reason at all -- they do have a reason, and that reason is dictated by their corporate strategy, and it is not helpful to this discussion for one of its participants to pretend that that strategy does not exist at all. Setting the record straight does equate to me saying, "Yeah, everything they do is good for me."
In this case, though, I am fine with it -- because I don't particularly need nor want three grossly overpriced home consoles when I don't care too much about HD, and because I believe that the lack of HD and the affordable price / lower development costs associated with that will be able to provide developers more incentive to create risky, innovative games that they might not otherwise be able to create without jeopardizing a far-too-big budget.
So in that sense, it benefits me as a gamer. There'll be multiple successful platforms on the market, enabling developers to take different approaches to design and create more choices and more quality games for me as a consumer. That's something I like.
Sorry if that's too complex a viewpoint to be boiled down to your "SONY ROXX NINTENDO SUXX!" console warfare approach.
PkunkFury
Member
Kangu said:
why not think this through a bit further...
If Nintendo included HD level tech, they'd be priced at least around the same level as MS and Sony. At that price they would be in direct competition and their marketshare would suffer. Bad marketshare would translate to less support, and we'd have Gamecube 2 on our hands.
I know it's hard to debate this because we still don't know the Wii's price. but it's obviously going to launch around $200. People who want the Wii to succeed are happy that it is priced reasonably for a mass market audience. They're also happy that it will be easy for devs to make games. Read the interview with Ben Herman from SNK if you haven't yet. Then tell me that the low pricepoint and cheap dev environment is not helping Nintendo win back support. After Gamecube, Wii needs all of the help in can get, and having a system with the specs of the competitors would obviously have left Nintendo in the cold yet again.
I'm sure a lot of you have the technology to take advantage of a PS3, and have the money to burn to buy one with a couple games at launch. But are you happy it costs so much? Wouldn't you have taken a hit in power for the security of knowing more people will purchase the machine in the future?
SolidSnakex
Member
There's next gen graphics and next gameplay. This will definetly deliver to most in the gameplay area, so yah its next gen.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
DCharlie said:
GAF doesn't play games DC!
PkunkFury said:
There is no such security, regardless of price.
The Wii is extremely underpowered from what we've seen. Nintendo could have made it half as powerful as the other next gen consoles whilst mantaing a reasonable price, but its not even close. Nintendo apologists can continue to applaud Nintendo's corporate decisions like a bunch of junior high cheerleaders but it's pretty clear that Nintendo is still trying to sell it's consoles at launch at a profit and that's why the thing is so damned underpowered. Having less power only limits the gameplay possibilities, wiiwand or no wiiwand.
But as far a corporate decisions go it's looking great! Only thing Nintendo screwed up on is making the Wii online capable. I hope they take that shit out because there's no way they're going to make money with the current online model.
I can't answer that question until I have a concrete definition of next-gen.
What I do know is that titles that will appear on the PS3 and 360 will most likely not appear in the same fashion on the Wii, and the Wii version will be a step behind in terms of graphics, perhaps sound, physics, AI, and perhaps gameplay.
Wii titles will simply not be found on these other consoles.
The fact of the matter is, if someone buys a Wii without buying a PS3/360, they are missing out BIG TIME. If someone buys a PS3/360, they may be missing out on something if they don't buy the Wii. It's hard to gauge at this point because currently there are only a couple of outstanding Wii games, and the rest need a lot of work still on them. Whereas the 360 already has a good number of great titles.
What I do know is that titles that will appear on the PS3 and 360 will most likely not appear in the same fashion on the Wii, and the Wii version will be a step behind in terms of graphics, perhaps sound, physics, AI, and perhaps gameplay.
Wii titles will simply not be found on these other consoles.
The fact of the matter is, if someone buys a Wii without buying a PS3/360, they are missing out BIG TIME. If someone buys a PS3/360, they may be missing out on something if they don't buy the Wii. It's hard to gauge at this point because currently there are only a couple of outstanding Wii games, and the rest need a lot of work still on them. Whereas the 360 already has a good number of great titles.
In recent years ive been spending less and less time with consoles (I think RE4 was the last release that I really dropped my shit over) and more time/money on my PC. I caved in and bought a DS at xmas after the MK reviews started coming in.
Right now the DS is the only console capable of prying me away from my PC. Theres something to it that alot of people have described better before me , you pick it up, flip it open and you are instantly having FUN. Its not something thats easily described or broken down into statistical analysis but ive got a theory.
The majority of games fall back on their progressive factors to hook you. Too often I realise I dont even know what kind of enjoyment im getting from a game, i just want to keep progressing to the next level. This isnt a dig a progression, like books, games should always make you want to see whats on the next page, but you should also be enjoying reading the page youre on. And thats exactly what the DS does for me.
You can see where im going with this in regards to Wii. I cant describe how excited I am about this console, to state its just a GC with a peripheral is just ignorance. It's loaded with a whole range of features that embrace a single bullshit free ethos, that generational leap in regards to consoles should be based around one thing, making games more fun.
Right now the DS is the only console capable of prying me away from my PC. Theres something to it that alot of people have described better before me , you pick it up, flip it open and you are instantly having FUN. Its not something thats easily described or broken down into statistical analysis but ive got a theory.
The majority of games fall back on their progressive factors to hook you. Too often I realise I dont even know what kind of enjoyment im getting from a game, i just want to keep progressing to the next level. This isnt a dig a progression, like books, games should always make you want to see whats on the next page, but you should also be enjoying reading the page youre on. And thats exactly what the DS does for me.
You can see where im going with this in regards to Wii. I cant describe how excited I am about this console, to state its just a GC with a peripheral is just ignorance. It's loaded with a whole range of features that embrace a single bullshit free ethos, that generational leap in regards to consoles should be based around one thing, making games more fun.
PkunkFury
Member
Kangu said:
The post of yours I quoted dealt specifically with making the Wii HD compatible, and that is what I was responding to. I agree the Wii could have more power, but I do not think skipping HD support was any form of a blunder on Nintendo's part. The amount of technology that would have been added to the console to competently render and output HD would definitely have killed the price. However, i will not argue that the Wii shouldn't have had a bit more power for SD resolutions. Don't try to twist what I was saying. I am, however, willing to believe the graphics will look quite nice by the time the system hits its stride (on SD TVs)
And your comment on the online service invalidates your assumption that Nintendo's just trying to hoard cash. It's obvious that they've selected from the various technologies available, the ones that they felt would best serve their customers, and a free online network plus built in Wifi ranked higher on their scale than more processing power. I'm happy with the decision, as they'll likely have a strong online player community when they launch.
100% Agree. Took the words out of my mouth.xhadoukenx said:
I posted this in the thread I made, but weeners said it didn't need another thread, so...
Nick said:Here is my list of what truly makes "next-generation gaming":
1) A noticable leap in graphics from one console to the next. This is the most obvious answer. I need to "see" the difference between one console to the next (Example: SNES to the N64, PSX to the PS2 and so on). This doesn't necessarily have to be a huge leap in graphics, but obviously it needs to be worth my buck.
2) A willingness to experiment and explore new concepts and ideas. Hey, life is all about choices. When I play video games, I want to try something fun, innovative and thought provoking. This is one of the main reasons why Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is one of my favorite games this generation. It literally "forced" me to change the way I thought about playing video games, and it encouraged me to ultimately adapt to my enviorments and surroundings. Obviously I'm talking about its stellar multiplayer mode.
I'm sick of cut-and-dry cookie cutter video games. This was the main reason why I stopped playing games in the first place! There was a period not too long ago where almost everything looked exactly the effing same. You had your Call of Duty's, your Final Fantasys... your Maddens that swarmed the market year after year with very little improvements from it successors and vert little incentive to get me to purchase them. I want something fresh. I want something new.
4) New franchises to ride alongside the old ones. I love me some Halo. I love me some Mario. Hell, I love me some Final Fantasy - but I think it's necessary that we progress into new territories and start some new series and/or franchies that aren't this generations console main-stays. I admit, I never once had the opportunity to try Pikmin.
5) The ability to listen to your customers. Look, we are the people who drive this geeky community. We say what's good and what isn't. We let the developers know in explicit detail what we want out of our games... pretty graphics, refined gameplay and interesting story lines. You can't just go "Well we made this console. We say what flys and what doesn't. You will buy what we put out whether you like it or not." That's not how we work. We need an incentive to purchase your product, and certain things are needed to get us to make that purchase. You need to LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS, and obviously: respond accordingly.
These days, I could easily fall into the "casual" gamer category. I'm not looking to own the "OMG GREATEST CONSOLE GRAPHIX EVER DUUUUDE." and I'm not looking to own everything "just to own it", but I'm merely looking to have fun. The definition of a true "next-gen" console to me is something that is new, interesting and above all: FUN.
metropolis
Banned
wii must be next gen since everyone i know wants to try it and feels like it's something new.
new = next gen.
new = next gen.
PkunkFury said:
I don't see what you're basing the HD capable machine would have killed the price argument on. It's one thing to be able to handle 720p (The fucking Xbox has 720p games!) And quite another to do it on the level of XBOX360 and PS3 as far as costs are concerned.
And I hardly think Nintendo is trying to hoard money, although they're damned good at it. I think they make decisons based on a combination of what they believe is best for consumers and what they believe is best from a corporate standpoint, much like Sony and MS. It would be naive to think otherwise, but fanboys either can't make the distinction or, even worse, make it and then come up with lame apologistic diatribes to justify them.
Deku said:
Whatever the fuck ever. Neither console is inherently next gen or not. Only the games can be next gen or current gen. I see plenty of current gen concepts on the Wii, as well as plenty of next gen concepts. The same goes for PS3/X360. Wand gestures=/= next gen game concept.
Kangu said:
Damn. No one has put forth a lame apologetic diatribe. We've stated to you the reason why Nintendo didn't include that particular tech -- because it's consistent with the entire strategy the company is laying out for, not only its next-gen console, but also its handheld device.
Yes, Nintendo is doing what's best for Nintendo. They're a corporation; their overal strategy is geared around achieving success for the company as it continues to create games and gaming platforms. No fucking shit. Some of us, though, think that Nintendo doing what's good for Nintendo -- and taking the steps necessary to ensure it remains a viable competitor in the home console arena -- is good for consumers as it gives developers and consumers both more choices, not less.
But whatever.
Deku said:
I think Super Mario Galaxy and Sonic Wild Fire both looked beyond current gen graphically, especially when I watched them playing out in motion.
Azure Dream
Member
Once I saw Super Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros. Brawl, yes. Without question.
Most of the games at E3 were Cube Kit-based, many even running on Dev Gamecubes. "1/3rd power" 360 comments from last E3 come into play. Probably the first gen of software will show the Gamecube roots, simply because the games aren't going to be completely remade graphically from now until launch (touched-up and rock-solid 60 FPS, definitely, though), but the second generation should already distance itself away enough.
Plus, the functionality additions really do change it into a new beast. The WiiConnect24 feature and networking software built-in means games on this have the potential to be connected like nothing on the Gamecube, absolutely nothing. (Even the three or four games that did support the modem online, and the three jury-rigged over LAN to work online by fans.) The control is a move forward, I think, leaning us closer towards 3D actions becoming play. It COULD have been released for the GC, but support would've been weak at best. If you want something unique supported, you launch the console with it and make sure every version of that console release has it.
I don't quite get the "they said screw HD TV owners" comments completely, though. 480p isn't 720p, I get that, but it's still better than 480i, and they quite obviously support 16:9 ratio when early reports said they might not. But 720p's the magic ratio?
Most of the games at E3 were Cube Kit-based, many even running on Dev Gamecubes. "1/3rd power" 360 comments from last E3 come into play. Probably the first gen of software will show the Gamecube roots, simply because the games aren't going to be completely remade graphically from now until launch (touched-up and rock-solid 60 FPS, definitely, though), but the second generation should already distance itself away enough.
Plus, the functionality additions really do change it into a new beast. The WiiConnect24 feature and networking software built-in means games on this have the potential to be connected like nothing on the Gamecube, absolutely nothing. (Even the three or four games that did support the modem online, and the three jury-rigged over LAN to work online by fans.) The control is a move forward, I think, leaning us closer towards 3D actions becoming play. It COULD have been released for the GC, but support would've been weak at best. If you want something unique supported, you launch the console with it and make sure every version of that console release has it.
I don't quite get the "they said screw HD TV owners" comments completely, though. 480p isn't 720p, I get that, but it's still better than 480i, and they quite obviously support 16:9 ratio when early reports said they might not. But 720p's the magic ratio?
The controller is definately a huge plus, but I just don't see the controller offering more possibilities than next-gen hardware.
I think Metriod Prime 3 would be off a lot better if had next-gen looks, I know it's a launch title but it doesn't look much better than a GCN game. Stronger hardware could give a lot more possibilities in improving the game IMO.
I mean you've got Final Fantasy XIII, MGS4, Gears Of War, Halo 3... and then you've got MP3. Going from 720p to 480p HURTS.
I think Metriod Prime 3 would be off a lot better if had next-gen looks, I know it's a launch title but it doesn't look much better than a GCN game. Stronger hardware could give a lot more possibilities in improving the game IMO.
I mean you've got Final Fantasy XIII, MGS4, Gears Of War, Halo 3... and then you've got MP3. Going from 720p to 480p HURTS.
Chris Remo
Member
Holy fucking shit, are you serious? I haven't read this thread beyond the first page, but this kind of question blows my mind. THERE ISN'T A LOWER GRAPHICAL LIMIT FOR GENERATIONS. Wii is part of the next industry wide five-ish year long console life cycle. That means it's part of the "next" generation of consoles. I mean you could ask, "Is it part of the HD Era?" and the answer would be "No," but that's a bullshit Microsoft marketing term anyway. When it comes to whether it's "next-gen" there is no opinion about it. Eventually all three consoles will just be the "current generation" and hopefully these ridiculous questions stop.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
ugh.
Yes it does. They are doing something different this time around which is different from last gen, which makes it next gen. Just because it doesn't follow the standard path of progression thus far doesn't mean it isn't next gen. good lord why am i even typing this.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
I think that with topics like this, it is possible NEOGaf has finally shown itself to be well outside the bounds of a LOT of consumers. Not that that wasn't already evident, but this forum is more equivalent to game makers than game players IMO.
For the record, the Nintendo Wii is definitely a next-gen console for me. Buying very close to day 1.
For the record, the Nintendo Wii is definitely a next-gen console for me. Buying very close to day 1.
Fallout-NL
Member
BMAN said:
This has yet to be proven.
SpoonyBard
Banned
The question is loaded, but let's just say YES.
Blackcherry
Member
Wario Ware Smooth Moves, next gen gamingFallout-NL said:
TheTrin said:
Because buying GCN level hardware in 2001 for $200, and rebuying TurboCube in 2006 for $200 (Most likely price) is kinda ridiculous.
Plus I think all this "last gen hardware", "next gen gameplay" is just some of the biggest spins ever.
You put Resident Evil 5 on a next-gen system you get a kick ass game, you put RE on Wii you get RE:Gun Surivor running on the RE4 graphics engine.
Junior Member FTW