I've been over-exposed to American culture. I know when something blindingly obvious will probably be taken the wrong way due to race. :/
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Doctor Who Series 8 |OT| We've fucking time-travelled, yes?
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I've been over-exposed to American culture. I know when something blindingly obvious will probably be taken the wrong way due to race. :/
I thought the racist concerns would have come from when the Doctor accused the schoolgirl as a shoplifter. Half way through the episode, and I am not particularly enjoying it. The Doctor's performance as usual is brilliant, but I still not liking Clara.
EDIT: I do love Danny's and the Doctor's confrontations and contrast. And then the Doctor just fed up and showing the girl his TARDIS made me chuckle. Perhaps my first impressions were too harsh with the episode.
EDIT: I do love Danny's and the Doctor's confrontations and contrast. And then the Doctor just fed up and showing the girl his TARDIS made me chuckle. Perhaps my first impressions were too harsh with the episode.
I loved this episode, it was great. I love when Doctor Who does the occasional episode that's more about the character then the enemy monster and this was a great example of those type of episodes.
I don't really get the raciest thing at all, I don't know how they could of made it more clear that the Doctor though Danny was a PE teacher because he was an ex Solider.
I don't really get the raciest thing at all, I don't know how they could of made it more clear that the Doctor though Danny was a PE teacher because he was an ex Solider.
Anyone who thinks for even a second that the Doctor is a racist is a complete idiot and not worthy of the time needed to explain why they're an idiot.
If the concern isn't that the Doctor is a racist, then what's the issue?
Best episode this season.
Damn good stuff. I loved how the Doctor so thought that she was in love with the Matt Smith like Doctor guy.
Really wondering about Pink due to that leap, that wasn't exactly normal. Not sure if they meant otherwise.
And the girl, half wondered if she was the woman in the future with the brother.
Damn good stuff. I loved how the Doctor so thought that she was in love with the Matt Smith like Doctor guy.
Really wondering about Pink due to that leap, that wasn't exactly normal. Not sure if they meant otherwise.
And the girl, half wondered if she was the woman in the future with the brother.
GavinUK86
Member
Clara is just fantastic in this episode.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Damned fun episode. I have no complaints.
Future Foundation
Member
I cannot legitimately see how this is in any way muddled, or how this is a problem with the writing staff. We're having this discussion because people are misreading a situation that's as clear as a morning on fucking Gallifrey.
The Doctor's beef with Danny and his astonishment at him not being a P.E. teacher all have to do with his prejudice towards soldiers and Danny being a soldier. Even if you were brand new and hadn't seen Twelve's last interaction with soldiers (Into the Dalek), that's made very clear when the Doctor responds to Danny's being a math teacher with a slightly astonished "but you're a soldier" (or something to that effect).
Not even the flipping over the robot?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
That's all very dependent on the fact he is a soldier. He is introduced by the Matt smith lookalike to the Doctor as ex-military and then the Doctor's attitude changes. NOTHING about the situation is even remotely race related besides his skin colour and certain peoples need to twist it.
Here is the entire first conversation.
"Danny Pink is your man Mr. Smith. 5 Years Military Experience, Sargent, Here and Afgan. Electrics, Boilers.. So if you need a hand Give him a shout"
DANNY I've helped [name?] with a couple of things
DOCTOR I won't be needing you Sargent, Very Qualified... You best get off to your P.E Class This is a popular british concept that Ex military do Physical Education in schools
DANNY Er, I teach Math's
DOCTOR Do You? What, In Emergencies?
DANNY No, I'm a Maths teacher.
DOCTOR How does that work?, What if the kids have questions
DANNY About what?
DOCTOR Maths
DANNY I answer them, I'm a Maths teacher.
DOCTOR But he said you were a solider
DANNY Yea, I was a solider, now I'm a maths teacher
DOCTOR But what about all the PE?
DANNY I don't teach PE, I'm not a PE teacher.
DOCTOR Sorry that seems very unlikely
CLARA Excuse me Mr. Pink I think class M49 are waiting
DOCTOR Yes you better run along Sargent, That ball isn't going to kick itself is it
DANNY I'm not a PE teacher, I'm a maths Teacher
DOCTOR Nope, Sorry, I can't retain that. It's just not going in.
The doctor has a problem with soldiers and is clearly trying to demean Danny by saying he is a PE teacher while also going with a pretty common British misconception that PE teachers are all military hardnuts.
Nothing about the entire conversation besides that fact a black man is present would have any cause for any viewer to assume the Doctor was racist. It's peoples own twisted views that are doing that.
C'mon, you didn't absolutely love that joke? Maybe I'm a slow guy, but once I realized what they were going for there I was dying.
APZonerunner
Member
I think it's just down to the nuances of how it was written, in the end. I don't remember anybody bemoaning 'Mickey the Idiot' and all the rest levelled at Mickey as racist - and that's ultimately the same song just being played in a different key, so to speak.
Man, my brother and I absolutely loved this joke. We laughed nonstop for like 5 minutes! You have no soul,
the joke was brilliant and flawlessly executed. Best joke so far this season, IMO.Man, my brother and I absolutely loved this joke. We laughed nonstop for like 5 minutes! You have no soul,
I think the best part is when Clara and him are both talking about the boyfriend and she goes, "So you approve?"
The way Capaldi goes, "Yes I approve. Of course I approve!" with that smile just kills me with laughter. That really is the best executed joke on Who in a long time. Capaldi has perfect comedic timing. Jenna's doing very well for herself in the comedy dept as well too.
So wait, that clip at the start was just left to be picked up at a later date, or did they escape and the episode carried on normally?
I liked the episode overall. It was a little weird for Pink to be introduced to the Doctor in this situation, but I guess it would have been odd regardless.
I didn't think the stuff was racist, however. I didn't really catch that.
Once they showed the teacher with the bow tie, I could see the resemblance to the previous Doctor.
I liked the episode overall. It was a little weird for Pink to be introduced to the Doctor in this situation, but I guess it would have been odd regardless.
I didn't think the stuff was racist, however. I didn't really catch that.
Once they showed the teacher with the bow tie, I could see the resemblance to the previous Doctor.
They escaped. That was how Clara got her tan.
They escaped and you saw her come back to meet Danny and he commented on how tanned she looked (From being chained up outside on that planet for ages). It was just part of that montage of adventures shown at the start of the episode.
I think the bit at the beginning was just part of the montage to show that Clara is living a double life. Doubt they'll revisit that.
WrenchNinja
Member
I was hoping Danny was going to be joining Clara and The Doctor like Rory did for Amy.
cereal_killerxx
Junior Member
Reading around on people's opinions on this episodes and here's what I have to say:
So lemme get this straight. Everyone can accept the fact that there's an alien called the Doctor who travels through space and time, but no one can accept a man doing a somersault? REALLY?
So lemme get this straight. Everyone can accept the fact that there's an alien called the Doctor who travels through space and time, but no one can accept a man doing a somersault? REALLY?
googleplex
Member
Black guy here.
I didn't see anything remotely racist about the Doctor's aversion to Pink. This Doctor in particular has a thing against solders. That was evident in "Into the Dalek".
Also I'm really liking Pink calling the Doctor out of his shit. Reminds me of my favorite companion. Donna Noble.
It looked really dumb.
I didn't see anything racist either.
Although, now that I think about it the Doctor kinda has a history of treating his black companions like shit in one way or another.
Mickey, Martha, Danny.
Juuuuust sayin.
I'm kidding, calm down
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah. I mean, as he went up I was like "That's some fuckin' vertical Mr. Pink's got" and then he began to SOMERSAULT and it was at that point I just smiled and said "fuck iiiiiit"
I do also think the tangible fake-ness of the creature in the first place created just enough goofy atmosphere for me to roll with it. I mean, if the villain is going to essentially be a Saban monster, I'm good with Danny Pink going Power Rangers on the thing.
Also, is the racism "controversy" just a thing in here? I'm not seeing it on my twitter anywhere. A lot of people seemed to REALLY like Clara this episode, though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh shit, I wonder if there's a correlation between people who hate on Twin Snakes and people who hate on Danny Pink.
Yeah. I'm the unreasonable idiot here. You sure showed me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Hey, I can see why/how it'd throw people. I don't begrudge anyone that opinion at all.
I was personally more inclined to just say "Fuck it" and roll with it. But that doesn't mean I think Mario "watched it wrong" or anything. For him, watching Danny Pink leap like 12 feet in the air and somersault perfectly at the apex of his leap was too ridiculous for him. That's cool. He's got a long way to go before he hits Kuwabara status, yunno?
I was personally more inclined to just say "Fuck it" and roll with it. But that doesn't mean I think Mario "watched it wrong" or anything. For him, watching Danny Pink leap like 12 feet in the air and somersault perfectly at the apex of his leap was too ridiculous for him. That's cool. He's got a long way to go before he hits Kuwabara status, yunno?
Yeah, I dunno. It's all about the rules the universe establishes as precedent, and those rules reset for me with every new regeneration. This season has set the premise that we are following an alien who by nature has powers and technologies beyond our understanding. Fine, sounds fun. They have also set the premise that the humans on this show's version of Earth are pretty much just like us more or less. Maybe more brave and a bit more accepting of weird stuff happening, but that's fine.
Within this show's logic and sets of precedents, there was no reason for Danny to somersault over the robot lol Like, I dunno. For a character as believable and grounded (ha, get it?) as Danny is, it would've been more true to character for him to distract the robot as safely as possible. Maybe come at him, turn invisible, then trick the robot into shooting itself or something.
Is somersaulting over your enemies something they require of you as a soldier or something? It was a funny moment for me, but I'm not sure I was supposed to laugh at it haha
GodParticle
Member
That was by far the best of the season. Great dialogue between all 3, especially that showdown where pink calls out the doc for being elitist. Edit: almost forgot the hilarious 11th doc twin whom the doc thought was clara's love interest. brilliant
On a side note, I'm wondering how long the casual fans will tolerate this new abrasive doc. I was at a family event earlier and both young and old disliked him, calling him the "grumpy" doc. He reminds me of the bitchy side of 9th the more I see
On a side note, I'm wondering how long the casual fans will tolerate this new abrasive doc. I was at a family event earlier and both young and old disliked him, calling him the "grumpy" doc. He reminds me of the bitchy side of 9th the more I see
I love grumpy Doctor. Smith will always be my first Doctor, but Capaldi is starting to give him a run for his money in terms of favorite all time Doctor.
Ein Bear
Member
Interesting to see that most people are siding with Danny. I actually thought the Doctor was right to be so pissed off - the guy tried to sneak into his home to eavesdrop on a personal conversation, then immediately started talking shit about the Timelords, and the Doctor's military relationship with them. Put me right off the character.
The Doctor started it first with his PE teacher bullshit. you don't get to disrespect someone at literally every opportunity and then expect them to treat you with respect.
Just because the Doctor is the main character doesn't mean he wasn't being a giant asshole.
Maybe. I personally think they are both pretty solid.
That's one part I wasn't completely ok with, felt one sided. Yes Clara trusts the doctor and 'follows orders' when necessary. But a lot of the time she is a driving force behind things. That dialogue with Danny presented it like the doctor was the officer and Clara the obedient soldier and I don't think that is a fair representation of heir relationship at all.
The fact this is even a discussion is more a reflection of the audience seemingly being incapable of having a character simply be black. No, the fact he is black must be reflected in anything the script does with him.
The PE teacher scene was super clear when it happened, due to the doctors distrust of soldiers, and then reinforced later with the whole officer/soldier scene. just because some people think there might be racist overtones doesn't mean there is 'a discussion' to be had about it. Those people are simply wrong.
Ein Bear
Member
The Doctor was definitely being a dick, but I really thought Danny invisibly stealthing onto the TARDIS was a much bigger asshole move tbh. Both characters were being knobs, really.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I mean, that was Clara's idea, in all fairness.
Exterminieren
Banned
Based on what I know about Doctor Who's production, I'd be astonished if Danny was explicitly planned or written to be black.
Hell, I'd be very surprised to learn that they didn't audition a fair few white actors as well as Sam Anderson.
Hell, I'd be very surprised to learn that they didn't audition a fair few white actors as well as Sam Anderson.
APZonerunner
Member
It's difficult to say. There may have been a bit of pressure on to go in that direction, to be fair, because Moffat faced (entirely silly) accusations after his first year of whitewashing the show. It's one of the reasons they cast a mixed race lass, half black, as Mels, a major character, Moffat said in an interview. "Well, that and to show that regeneration crosses racial borders on-screen." He said she wasn't written as a specific race but when they did the auditions "it'd be silly" not to admit it wasn't a consideration when casting. Fun fact - Jenna auditioned for that role!
I think that if people see a race issue because the Doctor doesn't like a black character for established reasons that have nothing to do with his skin colour, then they're the one with the problem, not the scriptwriters.
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