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[Finale Fireworker]

I think if you include the game theory where

Spoiler

Link is dead

, then yeah, it's definitely the best tin the series.

Please do not do this. This does not enrich the story and, in fact, invalidates it. Just like "Hamlet is insane" or "Inception was all just a dream", these Coma Theories invalidate the entire narrative in favor of a projected twist that only hampers what the story is trying to do. All the things that make MM work cease to be valuable when you forcefully misinterpret the plot as something else.

We also know that Link is not dead because the Hero of Time is in Twilight Princess. Let us not pretend the story is better if it becomes a (bad) story about purgatory instead of a story about processing grief, which is a natural evolution of the coming of age story in Ocarina of Time.

 

[ReyVGM]

It was also the first one made after Shigeru Miyamoto stopped directing them, which I would normally write off as a coincidence,

Miyamoto has always been the producer. He only directed Zelda 1, after that, other people have been directors.

 

[The Adder]

MM wins on

Spoiler

the Deku Butler's ending

alone. And the fact they didn't feel the need to spell it all out to you makes it that much better.

Very first game to make me tear up.

 

[Übermatik]

Plot? Uhh, maybe... it certainly has the best 'world' regarding characters, interactions and sub-plots. It has the most depth, basically.

Anju and Kafei's story alone has more substance than the entirety of OoT... *ducks*

 

[The Adder]

People.

"Sub-Plot" is plot. That's why it's SUB plot.

 

[Dimmle]

I could say it in the very least has the less cliche story and plot structure, that alone sets it apart from all the other zeldas that most of the time feel like slight variations of the same story, with exceptions like Link's Awakening (my personal favorite Zelda plot).

I guess the lesson is, Zelda games are best when they're not about Zelda but about Link instead.



Well, the "twist" is right there in the game's name but the real twist is

Spoiler

It's all a dream...but it's not your dream! it's the Wind Fish's!

Link's Awakening's dream setting isn't a twist in the cheap, Shyamalanian sense, though. You're informed of that truth about halfway through the game, at which point the emotional thrust is revealed: the true aim of your quest is to end the dream, the caveat being that every friend you've made since disappears along with it. The game follows storytelling wisdom more faithfully than a dream scenario like, say, Super Mario Bros. 2.

 

[LegendofLex]

A game's plot is a bit harder to define due to tons of games being non-linear in nature, but even if you don't include the side stories and world building the game still has a better story than the other zelda games by a pretty far margin(imo).

The game's "plot" (cause-and-effect chain from beginning to end) is basically no different from other Zelda games.

- Selfish being corrupted by evil power triggers plan to destroy world.
- Link appears in this world, has to cleanse temples to thwart evil plan.
- After cleansing temples, Link enters evil stronghold to save the world.

On a substructural level, each episode of the story follows the same basic plot, too:

- Link discovers a source of destruction/unhappiness in various regions of the world.
- Enters place where monsters are to destroy source of destruction/unhappiness.
- People there are happy again.

What's different about MM is the way it expresses its themes and the way that events that are technically outside the plot help us shape our opinions about the meaning of the story.

 

[Mr-Joker]

I think if you include the game theory where Link is dead.

That theory is nonsense and is wrong as Link left Termina, settled down to have a family before leaving again.

Spoiler

Twilight Princess hinted at this with Hyrule Historia confirming that the Hero shade is the Hero of Time Link.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

An absolutely marvellous game. The plot is still relatively simple but Skullkid as the villain means motivations are more complicated than "lol I wanna rule Hyrule because reasons." The game goes to show how important companionship is, and the crippling effects of loneliness. To supplement the plot are vignettes about the characters of Termina. The mindblowing thing is that they tell a story as the three-day cycle progresses. I would waste hours upon hours seeing how the characters reacted to the impending doom.

Man, what a blast. I consider Majora's Mask a much better game than Ocarina of Time.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Yes.

I'd go so far as to say Majora's Mask is hands down the best game Nintendo has ever made, and still my favourite game of all time. Fantastic story, world, characters, gameplay and atmosphere. A flawless jewel of a game.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

No. It has the best sidequests of any Zelda game by far though.

I only played three and half Zeldas, but I'm not sure if I can call it the best, but yes the sidequests are the best and that's where the majority of the game comes from. The plot is straightforward, but it's stories of the characters affected by the Skull Kid that makes the game rather than the journey to collect the boss masks.

 

[The Adder]

The game's "plot" (cause-and-effect chain from beginning to end) is basically no different from other Zelda games.

- Selfish being corrupted by evil power triggers plan to destroy world.
- Link appears in this world, has to cleanse temples to thwart evil plan.
- After cleansing temples, Link enters evil stronghold to save the world.

On a substructural level, each episode of the story follows the same basic plot, too:

- Link discovers a source of destruction/unhappiness in various regions of the world.
- Enters place where monsters are to destroy source of destruction/unhappiness.
- People there are happy again.

What's different about MM is the way it expresses its themes and the way that events that are technically outside the plot help us shape our opinions about the meaning of the story.

The plot of Majora's mask is:

On a journey to find the one friend he has who knows what he's been through, Link is attacked and robbed of his most precious things. In attempting to get them back, Link becomes embroiled in a race against the clock to heal the sorrows of Termina in order to stop the being that robbed him from destroying the world.

That's the plot using only the things that you ABSOLUTLEY HAVE to do to beat the game and none of the side-plots (which are still plot, but whatever)

Elaborating while I have time:

Just the first sentence is the most unique start of a Zelda game ever. He is on an adventure because he himself is broken and needs a friend who can understand him. He's in a position to save the world because someone took the things closest to his heart away from him.

Healing sorrows is an integral part of the plot. You can't NOT get the Bomber's notebook. It isn't optional. So the game is telling you that helping people is not optional.

Aa you yourself said, each place has several sorrows that MUST be healed in order to progress (and several you can skip). It's not optional. It's the main plot.

A Zelda game that is about helping others overcome their various sources of grief is easily the best Zelda game plot and storywise.

 

[21XX]

It's a cool little story, but MM64 definitely tops it.

 

[DecoReturns]

I prefer Wind Waker's. Odd because I love the Dark story lines that people are starting to hate nowadays.

Wind Waker was such a colorful, warm, but mature story that worked really well. It also made me care about link as a character.

 

[Garlador]

Miyamoto has always been the producer. He only directed Zelda 1, after that, other people have been directors.

Not true.
Shigeru Miyamoto's Gameography

He directed Ocarina of Time (my favorite game of all time for nearly 15 years).

 

[Cess007]

Always, and forever.

It's incredible how can a title card with a few words on it can feel sooo satisfactory in a game.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Absolutely.
I can only hope they go back to making such a compact yet detailed world in 3d zelda at some point.

Spoiler

It's never going to happen .

 

[DrunkShogun]

I think your right to put it in consideration at the least. I personally would push towards links awakening but that's my personal best zelda.

 

[AntMurda]

Not true.
Shigeru Miyamoto's Gameography

He directed Ocarina of Time (my favorite game of all time for nearly 15 years).

That's not accurate at all. He didn't direct Ocarina. He clearly was the producer, working with the 5-6 directors that were appointed.

He was actually co-director on the first NES Zelda. Tezuka was co-director, and the lead designer. Tezuka created the Link pixel, and did the map design.

 

[LegendofLex]

Just the first sentence is the most unique start of a Zelda game ever. He is on an adventure because he himself is broken and needs a friend who can understand him. He's in a position to save the world because someone took the things closest to his heart away from him.

This is all thematic/conjecture and not actually part of the cause-and-effect. rising/falling action chain of the plot.

That is, you could take away all of this and the game's story would still be intact. The world of Termina would still have a moon hanging over it; that'd still be a problem that Link, the hero, needs to solve; and the way to resolve it would be identical.

Healing sorrows is an integral part of the plot.

No, it's not.

Plot is a term that describes the structure of a story; it doesn't describe the message or theme of the story.

The "plot" of MM (and its various sidequests) is basically:

- Bad thing happens
- Link shows up
- Profit

There's exposition that happens around this plot, but it's exposition. Exposition can have its own chain of cause-and-effect, but that isn't the "plot" of the work.

A Zelda game that is about helping others overcome their various sources of grief is easily the best Zelda game plot and storywise.

You do this in literally every Zelda game with NPCs.

You do this in Zelda II.
You do this in Link's Awakening.
You do this in Ocarina of Time.
You do this in Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages.
You do this in The Wind Waker.
You do this in The Minish Cap.
You do this in Twilight Princess.
etc. etc. etc.

Zelda games are always about a hero showing up to put an end to some problem that is causing people tremendous grief and pain.

What's different about MM is that it makes it an integral part of the theme of the work, not the plot.

 

[foltzie1]

 

[ReyVGM]

Not true.
Shigeru Miyamoto's Gameography

He directed Ocarina of Time (my favorite game of all time for nearly 15 years).

Incorrect

He has ALWAYS been a producer, except for Zelda 1 which he was both producer and director. Same for Mario games, always a producer.

Ocarina of Time

Zelda 2

A Link to the Past

Majora's Mask

Wind Waker

Twilight Princess

 

[Linkstrikesback]

- Bad thing happens
- Link shows up
- Profit

for(i=0; i<num_plotscenes;i++)
{
Badthing(i);
printf("%s shows up\n",Str_charnam);
Profit++;
}

There you go, now everyone knows every plot for every game ever. Shut the thread down.

If it wasn't obvious, I think you're being a little too reductionist about it...

 

[Garlador]

That's not accurate at all. He didn't direct Ocarina. He clearly was the producer, working with the 5-6 directors that were appointed.

He was actually co-director on the first NES Zelda. Tezuka was co-director, and the lead designer. Tezuka created the Link pixel, and did the map design.

You're reaching... (don't know why you mentioned all those other Zelda titles I didn't mention).

Miyamoto: Three years ago I was director and producer of Super Mario 64. Then I only worked on Mario. Now I'm a producer on almost every game except Zelda 64. On Zelda 64 I'm half director and half producer.

In fact, even though Zelda is supposed to be my own project, there are many people who can say about parts of Zelda, "yeah, this is my game, this part of the game is my game". There are a number of people who can say that, and I think the number of these people is gradually increasing with each game. I think after Zelda, some of them can actually make their own games in the near future.

He was in charge of Ocarina of Time, full-stop. He was the lead of an entire team of directors, but he was the one in full control and full charge of Ocarina of Time, from conception to completion.

 

[Grizzo]

I see your post and raise it with a

Spoiler

Pamela and her father's home

 

[Ninjimbo]

There's no denying that Majora's Mask spins an interesting story and one that is backed up by really interesting sidequests such as saving as saving a bunch of cows from aliens or helping a ghost find respite by passing on his dance. The entire game is filled with weird ass characters and scenarios that makes it feel distinct from the traditional stories usually presented in the series.

However, I feel like the later games did a much better job with their main stories. I also think OoT is much stronger in how it laid out its characters and worked them in for later surprises. Majora's Mask (I'm replaying it again right now btw) doesn't string you along quite as well as those other games do and the main story beats kind of lack oomph as a result of it. You're really only following Tatl's advice most of the time to get to the next plot point and the dialogue is so brief you can't help but treat it as an afterthought.

If it sounds a bit nitpicky, that's because it is. I still really like the game and I like its story and character. The best in the series? Probably not. But it's still great for being unique.

 

[RoadHazard]

Probably, but what's with specifying MM3D, and not just saying Majora's Mask? The story is the same, is it not? Ridiculous nitpicking, sure, it just struck me as weird!

 

[LegendofLex]

There you go, now everyone knows every plot for every game ever. Shut the thread down.

If it wasn't obvious, I think you're being a little too reductionist about it...

I'm criticizing the logic of people who say "the plot of MM is great" and then go on to praise elements of MM's story that are not the plot.

The fact that Link starts off this story looking for his friend is quite touching, but it isn't the plot of Majora's Mask. It doesn't speak to a problem that's inevitably solved in the cause-and-effect chain of the narrative (indeed, Link doesn't find his friend, isn't put on the right track to do so as a result of the events of the story, etc.). At best, it's an expository detail that helps set up the theme of the story (which is friendship, healing sorrows, etc.).

The fact that Link is going on a journey at all could be said to be part of the plot (specifically: the frame; MM is a journey that deviates from another journey), of course, since that journey inevitably takes him to Termina. But that isn't really the groundbreaking piece of beautiful glory that most people uphold as the genius of Majora's Mask. People aren't saying they like MM because it uses a kind of frame narrative structure; they're saying they like MM because it uses the theme of friendship.

In fact, what I'd say makes MM so glorious is that the way the gameplay is structured allows so much of the story to happen outside of the plot without feeling like a cheap quest/mission-driven game like MMOs or Xenoblade X. MM has an overarching plot that isn't really all that different to other Zelda games; but it's thematically brilliant and has a bunch of little optional subplots that you can undertake in various non-linear ways to enhance your experience.

 

[Dimmle]

Healing sorrows is literally a plot point of Majora's Mask. He literally goes around and heals people with a magical instrument that explicitly cures their sorrows on a literal, non-thematic level. You can reduce any story to primary types of conflict. I liked lit crit too.

Describing Link's healing efforts as a plot point is not inaccurate.

That said, I agree that MM's real power is in its themes and not its plot.

 

[evilromero]

I'm going to have to get this version sooner or later. I guess one thing I'll miss out on is the camera control since I'm on a regular 3DS XL. But that's pretty much the extent of the n3DS features, correct?

 

[LegendX48]

Nah. idk what it is about it, but the series is pretty forgettable with its stories which is odd since it's my favorite series and the reason I play video games ._.

That said, I did like Skyward Sword's story with its

Spoiler

origin of the master sword and the sleeping beauty moments

 

[Nickle]

Zelda game's stories are more about the overworld and the NPC's then it is about the actual plot, but Majora's Mask does have the best plot of any Zelda game.

 

[LegendofLex]

Healing sorrows is literally a plot point of Majora's Mask. He literally goes around and heals people with a magical instrument that explicitly cures their sorrows on a literal, non-thematic level. You can reduce any story to primary types of conflict. I liked lit crit too.

But as a "plot point" it's not really distinct from other Zelda games, where you routinely break evil curses, save tribes from monsters and famines, rescue princesses, reunite families, and - yes - even provide remedies to people's sadness - and this is the primary vehicle for advancing the story.

When you talk about "plot," you're talking about the way the elements of a story are arranged. When you talk about "plot points," you're talking about the contributions certain elements of the story have to the structure of the narrative, the way events flow from point A to point B.

Or maybe "plot" is really just being used as a synonym for "story" and no one is talking about "plot" after all. But that doesn't change that I don't think the strengths of MM lie in the "plot." I think the "plot" is pretty standard, and what's most powerful about MM is that there's so much happening around it that the rest of the story actually takes over in significance compared to the plot, such that most people wind up interpreting the plot through the themes we encounter in the sidequests.

 

[Mudron]

Yep. Easily the best Zelda game, with the best characters and best story, at least for me.

 

[LegendofLex]

Nah. idk what it is about it, but the series is pretty forgettable with its stories which is odd since it's my favorite series and the reason I play video games ._.

I think one of the strengths of the Zelda series has traditionally been that the story isn't especially intrusive and the player has lots of freedom to interpret it and take action based on their perception of the story.

Same thing I think people see in the Souls games, in Skyrim, etc. They use a lot of pretty predictable, vanilla, easily relatable story elements (some people will disagree with Souls, but look closely at the core skeleton of the game's story - it's very traditional), then let the player imprint themselves into that story.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

I'm going to have to get this version sooner or later. I guess one thing I'll miss out on is the camera control since I'm on a regular 3DS XL. But that's pretty much the extent of the n3DS features, correct?

Pretty much, yeah.

It's a great feature being able to use the camera freely, but if you played OOT 3D, that was fine too as it was released before a 2nd stick ever became an option and MM3D will control the same way.

 

[Maneauleau]

Link's Awakening touched me the most so far.

 

[Peltz]

I personally though Link's Awakening had the best story.

 

[Griss]

Majora has the best world and side stories but the overall plot is pretty barebones. Which is fine - it wasn't a linear game; it didn't need a linear narrative. It excelled without one. Majora itself isn't an interesting character or villain, Skull Kid had only a couple of scenes of character development (though it was good) and the Giants were, well, kinda stupid.

The main 3D Zeldas OoT, Wind Waker and Skyward Sword have the best stories, imo. I love each of them.

OoT's story is pretty much perfect. A perfectly paced classic fantasy hero's journey. Seeing Link progress from orphan outcast to brave, inventive child to tragic, out of time hero was great. Seeing Hyrule fall into ruin due to the inadvertant actions of Link and Zelda was great - emerging from the Temple of Time and seeing the Hylians turned to ReDeads is still stunning and still the single darkest that Zelda has ever been.

Link's Awakening was the single most touching story, though. For some reason you just fell in love with the residents of the island of Koholint, and as the evidence built up that they wouldn't survive the climax of Link's journey there you desperately hoped it wouldn't be true... but of course it was.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Tagged for people who haven't played and do not know what's in the game.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Inside the Moon still amazes me. I haven't felt like this about a final area since Mega Man Legends 2's Elysium. The Moon Kids playing around while Majora remains alone was always interesting. What's even more interesting is the quotes you get from them. Every time I come in here, I always get goosebumps. So good.

Can I ask... a question? Your friends... What kind of... people are they? I wonder... Do these people... think of you... as a friend?

Can I ask... a question? What makes you happy? I wonder...what makes you happy...does it make...others happy, too?

Can I ask... a question? The right thing...what is it? I wonder...if you do the right thing...does it really make...everybody...happy?

Can I ask... a question? Your true face... What kind of... face is it? I wonder... The face under the mask... Is that... your true face?

 

[Refreshment.01]

After finishing GOTY 2015 Majora's Mask 3D, I think it does. Previously I thought that maybe it was Twilight Princess, or Skyward Sword for it's origin tale (or even Spirit Tracks having the best version of Princess Zelda) but the ending to MM3D made me legit tear up. Particularly the scene where

Spoiler

Skull Kid adds to the carving on the tree by adding Link as his friend

It's one of my fave series, but no other Zelda game's plot has moved me that much. The atmosphere in the game, the bizarreness of Termina and it's inhabitants, the encroaching threat of the moon, the sympathetic villain. I really appreciated it a lot more in the Remake than I did in the original. It works as both a sequel to OOT and as a dark twist on the regular Zelda formula, I doubt we'll see something as unique as MM in this series again.

What do you think?

Plot? Who cares? That is the best 3d Zelda game nintendo has ever done is all that matters.

It's a miracle this game exists. It's a downright oddity the Japanese version exists XD

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It's one of the, if not the most atmospheric game I have ever played. It blows my mind how much they managed to convey with so few words and the "sounds" they make.

 

[Yoshi]

90 posts? For this question? It's so obvious the answer is yes, I'm amazed there could even be 90 postings. Postings that say anything but "yes".

 

[foltzie1]

I see your post and raise it with a

Spoiler

Pamela and her father's home

Also sad, but don't they find themselves whole at the end of the game?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Zelda's plot is usually just a vehicle for delivering fantasy whimsy. That's what I like about the series - for a series that is usually about saving the world, it's never particularly obsessed with saving the world, more than it is cheery characters and lending a helping hand to whoever's around the corner.

Majora's Mask goes a step further, and uses it as a vehicle to deliver human stories instead, and then goes on to reflect their strife against that vehicle (the falling moon). It's incredibly impressive. The 3-day timeline gave Aonuma's team a LOT more room to flesh out these characters - the rest of the series, lacking an "ending point", forces its characters into static poses or binary states of (dis)satisfaction - but the writing could have been a lot worse, or a lot duller; instead, their lives are a fucking hassle, and it's incredible.

 

[SalvaPot]

Easily. It also has one of the most alive NPC's characters ever, everything had a purpose and life of its own. It is pure magic.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think if you include the game theory where

Spoiler

Link is dead

, then yeah, it's definitely the best tin the series.

The Link in Majora's Mask eventually returned to Hyrule, grew up and lived a normal life as a great soldier in the army, dying of age, with his only regrets being that he was never able to pass on his skills and nobody knows who he was or what he actually did (since for this Link, time was reset twice with nobody knowing what happened or how he actually saved the world, twice). Imagine being a hero who saved the world, twice, and not a soul on the planet knows or cares. How frustrating that must be.

The Hero of Time's story is a lot more interesting than "what if he was dead!?" nonsense.



Also yes, Majora's Mask has the best story and best atmosphere of any Zelda game.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The Link in Majora's Mask eventually returned to Hyrule, grew up and lived a normal life as a great soldier in the army, dying of age, with his only regrets being that he was never able to pass on his skills and nobody knows who he was or what he actually did (since for this Link, time was reset twice with nobody knowing what happened or how he actually saved the world, twice). Imagine being a hero who saved the world, twice, and not a soul on the planet knows or cares. How frustrating that must be.

The Hero of Time's story is a lot more interesting than "what if he was dead!?" nonsense.

Both of those theories place undue emphasis on Link in MM's story, anyway. Like, talk about missing the point - it's Termina's story.

But yes, I agree with your take more.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Both of those theories place undue emphasis on Link in MM's story, anyway. Like, talk about missing the point - it's Termina's story.

But yes, I agree with your take more.

My take is what happens in Twilight Princess, it's the canon story of what happens to the Hero of Time after Majora's Mask. Right from Hyrule Historia directly.

The spirit of Link's ancestor, the Hero of Time, teaches him his secrets. Ever since returning to the Child Era, the swordsman has lamented the fact that he was not remembered as a hero. This is the reason he passes down the proof of his courage and his secret techniques to the Link of this era, addressing him as 'son'.

 

[James Scott]

My take is what happens in Twilight Princess, it's the canon story of what happens to the Hero of Time after Majora's Mask. Right from Hyrule Historia directly.

Hero's Shade being OoT link without ever being said is super cool and does add a lot to the hero of time trilogy