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[deepbrown]

The cut scenes in MGS4 are well done, though many times too long, and the dialog is hit'n'miss, but you can tell a lot of work went into their "shots". Though I have to say the Uncharted series does cut scenes better, basically the best in the industry right now. God of War 3 was done well too. And one forgotten series actually did stuff rather well too, Ratchet and Clank.

My problem with Uncharted's cutscenes is that they're very Hollywood. They're fulfilling their purpose and nothing more.

This is where I think MGS in general comes out on top - there is art in them. There's personality in the direction, shot choices etc. I hope that makes sense.

Uncharted cutscenes are functional, but MGS cutscenes are artistic (even if self-indulgent).

 

[Red Blaster]

No. MGS1-3 all had way better cutscenes across the board.

I found the cutscenes in Xenoblade better than any MGS game has ever done

ahuahuhauha

 

[Socreges]

You mean the worst, right?

MGS3 blows MGS4 out of the water with its cutscene direction.

And MGS3 is pretty bad itself. My God I love that game, but the cutscenes cause much suffering to anyone with standards.

 

[PowderedToast]

i think they're probably the only cutscenes in the industry that have real compositional merit, yes. take the last few moments of MGS4 as a good example of this, just before it cuts to black. there's a care and consideration to the camera placement and editing that has remained effective to this day, and i've returned to that scene a number of times. kojima clearly understands cinematic values, which is more than i can say for any other cutscenes i've seen.

 

[DevilWillcry]

Nope, Uncharted 2 and God of War III destroyed MGS4's cutscenes a while ago and I am one of the few who enjoyed MGS4.

Not until they are edited.

Resident Evil 5 probably has the most "movie like" cutscenes.

pffff

 

[deepbrown]

i think they're probably the only cutscenes in the industry that have real compositional merit, yes. take the last few moments of MGS4 as a good example of this, just before it cuts to black. there's a care and consideration to the camera placement and editing that has remained effective to this day, and i've returned to that scene a number of times. kojima clearly understands cinematic values, which is more than i can say for any other cutscenes i've seen.

Yes. Other cutscenes might be great in that they emulate Hollywood, like Uncharted and God of War 3, but I feel the direction of Kojima's games and MGS4 are much more considered.

Nope, Uncharted 2 and God of War III destroyed MGS4's cutscenes a while ago and I am one of the few who enjoyed MGS4.


pffff

Personally I don't agree. The cutscenes in those games might be good, sharper etc. But as far as camera angles and direction - MGS4 is quite a way ahead (but those games wouldn't be after such a style, so it's not to their detriment).

 

[DevilWillcry]

I saw some mentions for Batman as well, absolutely amazing cutscenes from that one. But ew at all of the RE5 and FFXIII mentions. Did I watch the same cutscenes as some of you guys?

 

[-tetsuo-]

i think they're probably the only cutscenes in the industry that have real compositional merit, yes. take the last few moments of MGS4 as a good example of this, just before it cuts to black. there's a care and consideration to the camera placement and editing that has remained effective to this day, and i've returned to that scene a number of times. kojima clearly understands cinematic values, which is more than i can say for any other cutscenes i've seen.

He doesn't understand it because he doesn't understand editing.

I found the cutscenes in Xenoblade better than any MGS game has ever done

C'mon, son

 

[MNC]

Because this thread is about the writing and not at all about the technical aspects of the cutscenes AM I RIGHT POSTERS

Fucksake.

 

[deepbrown]

Because this thread is about the writing and not at all about the technical aspects of the cutscenes AM I RIGHT POSTERS

Fucksake.

Tis a shame, certainly.

 

[DevilWillcry]

Personally I don't agree. The cutscenes in those games might be good, sharper etc. But as far as camera angles and direction - MGS4 is quite a way ahead (but those games wouldn't be after such a style, so it's not to their detriment).

Yeah I can see where you're coming from when it comes to Uncharted but the direction and camera work in GoW3 is..well it's godly xD. Sony Santa Monica has some serious talent when it comes to production values. I know I'm probably in the minority here but I think God of War III is the one to beat right now in terms of cutscenes and production values. MGS4 was underwhelming in this area to me because the cutscenes were horribly paced and far too drawn out.

 

[deepbrown]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from when it comes to Uncharted but the direction and camera work in GoW3 is..well it's godly xD. Sony Santa Monica has some serious talent when it comes to production values. I know I'm probably in the minority here but I think God of War III is the one to beat right now in terms of cutscenes and production values. MGS4 was underwhelming in this area to me because the cutscenes were horribly paced and far too drawn out.

Let's have a cutscene on YouTube so I can have a look and remind myself. I really can't think of a game that is so careful in it's camera choices as MGS4.

I'm not particularly bothered about the drawn out. I might admire one of those 24 hour long art movies if the camera work within them is good.

OK, maybe that should be my conclusion. The camera work in MGS4 is second to none. That should reduce the possibility of arguments.

 

[Unity2012]

Other examples:

Halo Wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_cRZ24BVKM
Uncharted 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ktyus97Z30
God Of War 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuQMW7ml7Yw
RE5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tr8S7VumMM&feature=related


MGS4 might have the longest cinematics; but it does not have the best within the industry. In the eyes of its hardcore fans, yes--no questions asked; but Art is in the eye of the beholder... there is a wide variety of outstanding examples out there. It is difficult to name any as the definitive winner above them all.

 

[MeBecomingI]

Yes. I do believe it still has the best cut-scenes in the industry right now because they have a certain personality to them that very much differentiates itself from everything else. Kojima attempted to blend a range of unique filming styles into these cut-scenes and I found that they all played out very well. I really like his style and I really like how he handled each scene in MGS4. Uncharted has a very strict and almost static method of filming cut-scenes. I think the Uncharted series has definitely moved up the ladder and is nipping at the heals of MGS4, but MGS4 still has a style that worked perfectly and was very, very well made.

I could get into the more technical aspects about the games careful use of angles and character placement, but I don't really care too right now. Come at me GAF for liking MGS4!

MGS4 thread = devolve into poop tossing drivel.

 

[Special J]

mgs4 wins hands down

why are people so hard pressed with trying to jigsaw games into movies... these mediums have difference pacing, a movie is 2 hours, a videogame has to be at least 12 (if single player focused) to keep the people from bitching.

and the hilarity from the gaffers up on their directorial high chairs... such complete drivel.

 

[DevilWillcry]

Let's have a cutscene on YouTube so I can have a look and remind myself. I really can't think of a game that is so careful in it's camera choices as MGS4.

I'm not particularly bothered about the drawn out. I might admire one of those 24 hour long art movies if the camera work within them is good.

OK, maybe that should be my conclusion. The camera work in MGS4 is second to none. That should reduce the possibility of arguments.

Yeah the camera work was quite good in the prime moments of MGS4. Let's agree to disagree . Here's the spectacular introduction and first cutscenes of God of War III:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTTd_sJGxs

 

[PowderedToast]

He doesn't understand it because he doesn't understand editing.

but editing is much more than just the length of a scene, it's about rhythm, composition and knowing when to cut - elements that he actually understands very well*. the fact that MGS cutscenes now have a recognisable aesthetic speaks to this. the only way to leave an individual mark is to understand the tools at your disposal. to simply say he doesn't understand editing because his scenes are overlong isn't right. that speaks more to indulgence.

*i'm assuming kojima is largely responsible for these things but i actually don't know much about the factual credits. it's obvious he didn't work alone but y'know, just for the sake of ease.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Enslaved has far superior cutscenes, even though the game itself sucked.

 

[jett]

but editing is much more than just the length of a scene, it's about rhythm, composition and knowing when to cut - elements that he actually understands very well*. the fact that MGS cutscenes now have a recognisable aesthetic speaks to this. the only way to leave an individual mark is to understand the tools at your disposal. to simply say he doesn't understand editing because his scenes are overlong isn't right. that speaks more to indulgence.

*i'm assuming kojima is largely responsible for these things but i actually don't know much about the factual credits. it's obvious he didn't work alone but y'know, just for the sake of ease.

MGS's games have a specific people in charge of the technical cut-scene direction(camera placement and such), and it's not Kojima.

Masaya Kobayashi .... assistant director: motion capture unit
Shuyo Murata .... assistant director: motion capture unit
Shuyo Murata .... assistant director: real-time cutscenes

I guess it's more of a team effort.

 

[Special J]

but editing is much more than just the length of a scene, it's about rhythm, composition and knowing when to cut - elements that he actually understands very well*. the fact that MGS cutscenes now have a recognisable aesthetic speaks to this. the only way to leave an individual mark is to understand the tools at your disposal. to simply say he doesn't understand editing because his scenes are overlong isn't right. that speaks more to indulgence.

*i'm assuming kojima is largely responsible for these things but i actually don't know much about the factual credits. it's obvious he didn't work alone but y'know, just for the sake of ease.

^this.
just look at mgs1 for example it has some of the best pacing in a videogame, the way it was directed on ancient technology. kojima has full understanding of editing look at his past works snatcher, policenauts, he just chose a different direction with mgs4, and there are multiple reasons why he may have done this.

 

[Vamphuntr]

I found the cutscenes in Xenoblade better than any MGS game has ever done

...

I can't see myself agreeing with this. I hate both Xenoblade and MGS4 but come on. The character models in Xenoblade really look like they are from the PS2 era with their flat faces. As for the action going on, it's pretty much generic JRPG/anime nonsense and the camera work sure is pretty clunky.

But yeah let's all praise Xenoblade the RPG of forever without any flaws.

 

[PowderedToast]

MGS's games have a specific person in charge of the technical cut-scene direction(camera placement and such), and it's not Kojima.

so i thought, akin to the relationship between a cinematographer and director. i imagine he works with an entire team that are under his direction. i say this because it would be much harder to carry a consistent aesthetic without a unifying vision.

 

[-tetsuo-]

but editing is much more than just the length of a scene, it's about rhythm, composition and knowing when to cut - elements that he actually understands very well*. the fact that MGS cutscenes now have a recognisable aesthetic speaks to this. the only way to leave an individual mark is to understand the tools at your disposal. to simply say he doesn't understand editing because his scenes are overlong isn't right. that speaks more to indulgence.

I know all of this. I'm not talking about the length of the scenes.

 

[MechaX]

but editing is much more than just the length of a scene, it's about rhythm, composition and knowing when to cut - elements that he actually understands very well*. the fact that MGS cutscenes now have a recognisable aesthetic speaks to this. the only way to leave an individual mark is to understand the tools at your disposal. to simply say he doesn't understand editing because his scenes are overlong isn't right. that speaks more to indulgence.

*i'm assuming kojima is largely responsible for these things but i actually don't know much about the factual credits. it's obvious he didn't work alone but y'know, just for the sake of ease.

I would have to hugely disagree right here. I would say that Kojima's team doesn't even get that down right (and this isn't even going into the writing of the script itself, but more cinematography). In case point, look at Snake's initial meeting with Drebin. For all the exposition that he does, and getting 20 minutes to that point, he invites Snake inside his buggy to give him a shot of some nanomachines. 5 minutes after deliberation, he invites Snake back outside to stand around in the same camera shots he was in before.

Pacing of the scene itself is the number one problem here, but I will let that slide. But the rhythm itself is completely disjointed; it is like they decided to throw in the "go inside of Drebin's buggy" in a location of the scene that just seems tremendously awkward to even the average viewer. Of course, trying to interweave such scenes is one possible solution. However, given the cries that Kojima is in dire need of editing, I don't see how MGS4's cutscenes can reign supreme when it can't even get fundamentals down correctly.

^this.
just look at mgs1 for example it has some of the best pacing in a videogame, the way it was directed on ancient technology. kojima has full understanding of editing look at his past works snatcher, policenauts, he just chose a different direction with mgs4, and there are multiple reasons why he may have done this.

First off, trying to compare MGS1-4's active cutscenes to Snatcher and Policenauts' visual novel style is not going to work. Second, I distinctly remember cases in both Snatcher (specifically the last act) and Policenauts where there was definitely some need for script editing and revision in terms of cutting down on superfluous or redundant speech (in Policenauts' case, I might chalk that up to something being lost in translation, despite the great degree of skill said translation team displayed).

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Not sure why so many people decided to chime in and bash the writing instead of discussing the cut scenes like the OP specified.

Regardless, I thought that MGS4's cut scenes were very well done. Especially the fight scenes between Raiden and Vamp were excellent.

I would put Bayonetta and Devil May Cry 4's cut scenes up there as well(more Bayonetta than DMC4). I always like it when a game makes my jaw drop, and that happened many times with Bayonetta.

 

[Ratrat]

It has the best camera angles and cinematography.

 

[gutter_trash]

No, it doesn't. Excusing the actual direction of the scenes, the dialogue (and delivery) is pretty bad.

this.

Visual action scenes depicting Characters from Western countries striking a pose anime style tends to be silly visually in a realistic setting of war.

The dialog is awful and convoluted, I like MGS3 Snake Eater being almost free of the techno crap of MGS2 and MGS4 but the repetition of Nanno-Machines non-stop makes these cut-scenes very difficult to digest and unenjoyable

 

[LCfiner]

I found almost all of MGS4’s cutscenes to be insultingly awful. terrible writing and pacing. awkward delivery and a total disregard for good editing. I cringed my way through all of them that I could force myself through

I think they represent everything wrong with video game storytelling.

 

[Apath]

I think so. Granted the dialogue and plot is usually absolute shit, but the actual production values is top notch. Great camera work, animation, voice acting, etc.

EDIT: I guess I'm the only one who thinks the voice acting was great. I think the dialogue is terrible, but I do not have a problem with how the actors delivered what they had to work with. There are a few examples of mediocre and even poor voice overs, but for the most part it's great and a step above almost every other game.

Regardless, I thought that MGS4's cut scenes were very well done. Especially the fight scenes between Raiden and Vamp were excellent.

I agree. Raiden vs Vamp at the end of Act 1 (?) was probably one of the best cut scenes I've seen in a game. Production wise.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Uncharted 2 and 3 have some good ones.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I thought the OP was trying to highlight the TECHNICAL aspects of MGS4 cutscenes like cinematography, sound design, general shot composition, fight choreography, details, etc. etc., but so many people are responding about the writing and length of them. Heh.

Anyway, Uncharted 3 has them beat in terms of animation, subtle movements, and voice acting, but MGS4 still has some of the most technically impressive cutscenes in the industry IMO. There's nothing like them, and you know immediately that you're watching a MGS4 cutscene just because of the music and how it's shot.

 

[SnipeyMcGee]

I'm floored that people actually like the scenes in MGS4, I love watching 40 minutes of shitty dialogue, annoying children and terrible voice acting.

Lately the Uncharted series has had some fantastic scenes. They don't overstay their welcome and have well delivered dialogue, unlike most games.

 

[P90]

Still? I'm not sure it ever did

This

 

[gutter_trash]

when Naomi 1st went off on a tangent babbling about nanno-machines for over 30 minutes... I knew that this game was in trouble cut-scene wise

 

[deepbrown]

I'm floored that people actually like the scenes in MGS4, I love watching 40 minutes of shitty dialogue, annoying children and terrible voice acting.

Lately the Uncharted series has had some fantastic scenes. They don't overstay their welcome and have well delivered dialogue, unlike most games.

Funny how a post immediately following another can miss what was said.

 

[Boney]

This is a ScOULaris thread alright.

 

[TouchMyBox]

While I'm not going to make a judgement call based on how well the cutscenes are directed (I enjoyed them, if that means anything), I love how MGS4's cutscenes are so intricately detailed... Being able to count the number of pixels on the LCD display on the Mk II, and all the fine texture work which would often be a blurry mess in any other game. It really helped immerse me in the world.

 

[weremichael]

Uncharted 2 and 3 ,God of War 3 tops it IMO

I came to post that exact same thing. Well played Daxter.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Saints Row: The Third. Sorry OP.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

ugh, god no. There's a reason people where upset because you couldn't skip them and it's because the cutscenes were aweful.

The best cutscenes are Half Life 2's.

 

[TouchMyBox]

ugh, god no. There's a reason people where upset because you couldn't skip them and it's because the cutscenes were aweful.

The best cutscenes are Half Life 2's.

I guess I got a different copy than everyone else. I knew I was cool.

 

[jett]

In my opinion the best cut-scenes in MGS4 come from the first 30 minutes. They have this docudrama feel to them in execution, even simulating dirt on the camera, it works great for the game. Of course that style is all but abandoned later on.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Saying "still the best" implies they ever were in the first place.

A good cutscene should be unobtrusive - get some story that can't be expressed through gameplay out of the way, set up an objective or character, etc - and MGS4's cutscenes went way beyond that, delivering scenes that should have been gameplay and powerpoint presentations about characters and concepts that were boring as all git-out.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

For those of you arguing that the game does indeed have the best cutscenes this gen, are you talking exclusively in terms of cinematography and overall composition, or are you also including editing, dialogue, and all that other good stuff?

Because there's a very fine distinction between the two. I think we can all agree that the cutscenes in all the MGS games have great and unique artistic direction; however, by the same token, I'm sure we can all agree that most of the cinematics in these games (particularly 4) are bloated with poor editing, both for composition and dialogue.

I've always thought the MGS series could use a competent editor, someone who could be firm with Kojima and say, "No, that has to go," when appropriate.

All things considered, I think the Uncharted series is the absolute definitive leader when it comes to cutscenes. Short, sweet, great direction, great writing, terrific voice acting... the whole package.

 

[X26]

And MGS3 is pretty bad itself. My God I love that game, but the cutscenes cause much suffering to anyone with standards.

que 5 minutes of unexplainable ocelot hand gestures

 

[herod]

Cutscenes are the worst thing in video games for me.

 

[jett]

Besides KojiPro's actual work, another one of the reasons in my opinion most of MGS4's cut-scenes are insufferable is because of the frankly awful English voice work. Listen to Snake's monologue from the intro in Japanese, it sounds so much better than David Hayter's ridiculous voice.

 

[Yoshichan]

Besides KojiPro's actual work, another one of the reasons in my opinion most of MGS4's cut-scenes are insufferable is because of the frankly awful English voice work. Listen to Snake's monologue from the intro in Japanese, it sounds so much better than David Hayter's ridiculous voice.

Jesus Christ. That intro is extremely well done with Hayters voice.

 

[140.85]

Threads like this are always catnip to haters.

The answer is yes of course. With Naughty Dog not too far behind.

 

[jett]

Jesus Christ. That intro is extremely well done with Hayters voice.

Fuck no, his Snake voice has sounded like a parody of himself since MGS2, it has only become worse with each game.