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Does Sony need more variety in their first party games? Can we do less skill trees.

Apr 22, 2021
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I know people will see this as FUD but I was listening to a podcast on Sony’s up coming games that we know of and as people stated before they all seem to have a similar back bone.

Spider-Man = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements (Skill tree)

GOW = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements

Horizion = TPAAwLRPGE

Wolverine = not much info but we can assume unless it’ll be a full rpg in the isometric view

Naughty Dog also has a similar DNA to their games. As my favorite studio I feel they mastered the formula the best tho.

As someone who games on all consoles (XsX, PS5 and switch) I’m not too bothered by it since my PS5 is my exclusive box but do you think Sony should add a bit of diversity to their game line up from a genre perspective? Would you like to see them fund a large budget Crpg or an isometric strategy game? Maybe dive into more untraditional genres. I know from a business perspective if it ain’t broke…but what about from a non mainstream fan perspective. What would y’all like to see, or just stick to what they’ve been doing?
At the least I’d like to see them do less skill trees and maybe do a game that is either a full RPG. The quality of their studios doing a full on RPG sounds like a good ass time to me.








 

yurinka

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Sony is probably the big publisher with the biggest amount of variety in the types of games they publish, they cover a ton of game types/genres. Dreams, Sackboy, Destruction All Stars, MLB, Bloodborne, Concrete Genie, the tons of VR games, the PlayLink games, Detroit, Until Dawn, Returnal, Gran Turismo, Demon's Souls and so on are super different to each other.

But yes, 3rd person action blockbustar AAA games have some common features. Great work, Sherlock. But other than that, the ones from Sony are pretty different between them too.

In addition to this, they are both working in SP games and several MP and GaaS games, both big and small games, both standard blockbusters and more creative or niche games, around a dozen of sequels and around a dozen new IPs.
 
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Perrott

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I know people will see this as FUD but I was listening to a podcast on Sony’s up coming games that we know of and as people stated before they all seem to have a similar back bone.

Spider-Man = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements (Skill tree)

GOW = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements

Horizion = TPAAwLRPGE

Wolverine = not much info but we can assume unless it’ll be a full rpg in the isometric view

Naughty Dog also has a similar DNA to their games. As my favorite studio I feel they mastered the formula the best tho.

As someone who games on all consoles (XsX, PS5 and switch) I’m not too bothered by it since my PS5 is my exclusive box but do you think Sony should add a bit of diversity to their game line up from a genre perspective? Would you like to see them fund a large budget Crpg or an isometric strategy game? Maybe dive into more untraditional genres. I know from a business perspective if it ain’t broke…but what about from a non mainstream fan perspective. What would y’all like to see, or just stick to what they’ve been doing?
At the least I’d like to see them do less skill trees and maybe do a game that is either a full RPG. The quality of their studios doing a full on RPG sounds like a good ass time to me.








Days Gone also has a skill tree IIRC
 

DarkMage619

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Sony is probably the big publisher with the biggest amount of variety in the types of games they publish, they cover a ton of game types/genres.

In addition to this, they are both working in SP games and several MP and GaaS games, both big and small games, both standard blockbusters and more creative or niche games, around a dozen of sequels and around a dozen new IPs.
What is their biggest FPS and RPG?
 
May 28, 2013
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I know people will see this as FUD but I was listening to a podcast on Sony’s up coming games that we know of and as people stated before they all seem to have a similar back bone.

Spider-Man = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements (Skill tree)

GOW = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements

Horizion = TPAAwLRPGE

Wolverine = not much info but we can assume unless it’ll be a full rpg in the isometric view

Naughty Dog also has a similar DNA to their games. As my favorite studio I feel they mastered the formula the best tho.

As someone who games on all consoles (XsX, PS5 and switch) I’m not too bothered by it since my PS5 is my exclusive box but do you think Sony should add a bit of diversity to their game line up from a genre perspective? Would you like to see them fund a large budget Crpg or an isometric strategy game? Maybe dive into more untraditional genres. I know from a business perspective if it ain’t broke…but what about from a non mainstream fan perspective. What would y’all like to see, or just stick to what they’ve been doing?
At the least I’d like to see them do less skill trees and maybe do a game that is either a full RPG. The quality of their studios doing a full on RPG sounds like a good ass time to me.








I think you're missing tens of games exclusive to PlayStation that don't follow that pattern. But sure, cherry pick on (some) of the biggest ones to try to make conversation.
 
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What is their biggest FPS and RPG?
Demon's Souls and Bloodborne are some big exclusive PlayStation RPGs. Persona 5 is also a big one. Of course Final Fantasy VII Remake, Final Fantasy XVI is also exclusive. Need more?

Edit: Ni Oh games are also a kind of action RPG
Edit2: Dragon's Crown is a magical and excellent beat n' up RPG.
 
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yurinka

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OP just proved you wrong

Nintendo is the only true answer
Sure, Jan. If lucky you'll get tomorrow some N64 (or older) roms announced. And what is even more sad, you will be happy with them.

OP didn't prove a shit. Only cherry picked a few games that share a standard feature in that type of game between dozens of very different games they publish and are totally unrelated to each other. It would be like to say that all the games where you shoot are the same, or that all the games where you jump, or where you drive a vehicl are the same. It's plain dumb.
 
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Craig of War

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Demon's Souls and Bloodborne are some big exclusive PlayStation RPGs. Persona 5 is also a big one. Of course Final Fantasy VII Remake, Final Fantasy XVI is also exclusive. Need more?

Edit: Ni Oh games are also a kind of action RPG
Most of what you listed are not even from 1st party studio i think OP is trying to say Sony 1st party studios needs more game variety.
 
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Most of what you listed are not even from 1st party studio i think OP is trying to say Sony 1st party studios needs more game variety.
But they have variety. Demon's Souls is a PS Studio game. And all the others are exclusive. Why do they need to focus resources in making games for ALL genres if they can concentrate on their strengths while other studios do what they're best at and release those games as PS exclusive?
 

yurinka

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What is their biggest FPS and RPG?
Probably Call of Duty (or who knows if Fortnite) and Final Fantasy VII Remake.

Since they have most best selling FPS and RPG on their platform, some of them even with some sort of exclusive or marketing deal, and selling way more on their platform than in other ones they don't need to worry about having a super seller FPS or RPG made by themselves because they already dominate these genres.

Not Sony games.
They are Sony exclusives like many other of the most popular games of the genre. And most of the other most popular games of the genre are also available on their console and sell more there than in other platforms. Sony doesn't need to make their own ones because they already have this genre more than covered.

X to doubt.

Where are thier shooters? (1st person and 3rd)
2D platformers?
Fighting games?
RPG? (J or W)
RTS?
Sandbox?
Survival?

There are a whole lot of genres they don't address that other companies do.
It's dumb to expect to have a publisher cover all their genres. Sony as publisher covers more genres than anyone else. And on top of that they also have 3rd party exclusives to cover way more genres, like the fighting and RPG ones.

And there are genres like shooters where they are dominated by some multiplatform games, that sell by far more in their console than in other places, so they don't need to make huge investments there because they also have them covered.

2D platformers, RTS and Survivals are totally irrelevant in console. They don't sell enough in console to generate interest.

If you don't know what games publishes Sony, here you have a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony_Interactive_Entertainment_video_games#2021
 
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Kagey K

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But they have variety. Demon's Souls is a PS Studio game. And all the others are exclusive. Why do they need to focus resources in making games for ALL genres if they can concentrate on their strengths while other studios do what they're best at and release those games as PS exclusive?
Timed exclusive*

Why make studios when you can buy them?

I'm going to guess you can see the irony in your last sentence.
 
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FUD Master In the houseeee. You always posting worries, but youre never worried.

Is there really a market for a RPG. I can see them making a first person shooter. I doubt they want shake any feathers with Call of Duty.

Again, this doesnt make anysense. All these games mentioned are extremely popular. They release once/twice a year. Why on earth would they stop using their formula.

Jim Ryan
Naughty Dog make a RPG.
Insomniac make a RTS.
Sucker Punch make a Kart Racer.
Marketing: theres no interest for there genres Jim.
Jim: But a post in neogaf said… FUCK it. STOP GT7, its cancelled. Youre making a FPS now.
 
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Craig of War

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But they have variety. Demon's Souls is a PS Studio game. And all the others are exclusive. Why do they need to focus resources in making games for ALL genres if they can concentrate on their strengths while other studios do what they're best at and release those games as PS exclusive?
Again they are not from 1st party studio aka Studios that Sony actually own so your kinda making the point for OP since most the games you list are not made by a studio that Sony own get it now.
 

Kagey K

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They are Sony exclusives like many other of the most popular games of the genre. And most of the other most popular games of the genre are also available on their console and sell more there than in other platforms. Sony doesn't need to make their own ones because they already have this genre more than covered.
Timed exclusives aren't Sony games.
 
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Again they are not from 1st party studio aka Studios that Sony actually own so your kinda making the point for OP since most the games you list are not made by a studio that Sony own get it now.
Yeah so? Who cares? Where's the variety from Microsoft? Where's the variety from Nintendo? Does Xbox have exclusive RPGs? What's their biggest action adventure game?
 
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So I think people are confusing their times exclusives with the first party games listed. I was talking about their first party studios. I do agree they have some variety but I said if they need more variety. Dreams is a good game, so is demon souls (still a 2nd party game current but first party ip) but those games are few and far between. I’d like for their heavy hitters to dive into RPG.
 
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So I think people are confusing their times exclusives with the first party games listed. I was talking about their first party studios. I do agree they have some variety but I said if they need more variety. Dreams is a good game, so is demon souls (still a 2nd party game current but first party ip) but those games are few and far between. I’d like for their heavy hitters to dive into RPG.
Horizon is RPGish, so is God of War. They have sold buckeloads with that formula. I sure would love more RPGs from Sony but not necessarily from the top tier studios. For instance, I think they could hire Ember Lab to develop something for them, maybe use one of their forgotten IPs like Legend of Dragoon..
 
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kyliethicc

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Uncharted is one of the very few singleplayer AAA action games left with no RPG elements at all actually. A few FPS action game campaigns too, like CoD, and then Uncharted ... and not much else I can think of.

So I think people are confusing their times exclusives with the first party games listed. I was talking about their first party studios. I do agree they have some variety but I said if they need more variety. Dreams is a good game, so is demon souls (still a 2nd party game current but first party ip) but those games are few and far between. I’d like for their heavy hitters to dive into RPG.
Every game Sony publishes is 1st party btw. Otherwise its 3rd party.
 
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SlimeGooGoo

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So I think people are confusing their times exclusives with the first party games listed. I was talking about their first party studios. I do agree they have some variety but I said if they need more variety. Dreams is a good game, so is demon souls (still a 2nd party game current but first party ip) but those games are few and far between. I’d like for their heavy hitters to dive into RPG.
The problem with AAA games is that they like to play it too safe with the design, and just follow popular trends blindly and compulsorily.

Those skill tree unlockables are probably the biggest plague to hit modern games.
Not that there's anything wrong with them, but it's just that it feels like designers can't come up with anything else different.

And so even in games that don't even need those things, they feel the need to follow some "design checklist" and add stuff without even requiring to do so.
I'm not sure if it's designers that are just that dumb and can't think for themselves, or if it's for marketing reasons.

Whenever I see those dumb skill trees on non-RPGs I just avoid buying them.
It's just fluff for the sake of it. Most games don't need it, especially action games.
 

yurinka

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Timed exclusives aren't Sony games.
Sony's timed exclusives are Sony exclusives. For an undetermined amount of time you won't play them on another console. In the case they get ever released in other consoles, because for different reasons not all timed exclusives get released in other consoles.


The problem with AAA games is that they like to play it too safe with the design, and just follow popular trends blindly and compulsorily.

Those skill tree unlockables are probably the biggest plague to hit modern games.
Not that there's anything wrong with them, but it's just that it feels like designers can't come up with anything else different.

And so even in games that don't even need those things, they feel the need to follow some "design checklist" and add stuff without even requiring to do so.
I'm not sure if it's designers that are just that dumb and can't think for themselves, or if it's for marketing reasons.

Whenever I see those dumb skill trees on non-RPGs I just avoid buying them.
It's just fluff for the sake of it. Most games don't need it, especially action games.
Some game design knowledge may help you to understand it from an experienced dev (and designer in around half a dozen of them):

Skill trees are an standard feature in certain genres because it's one of the best game design tools to add progression and discovery to the game unlocking new skills and techniques as you progress through the game, and making it in a non-linear way, so the player can customize his gameplay progression to adapt it to its personal preferences and express himself.

In some genres, long games without unlocking skills/techniques end being too boring and repetitive, and the ones who unlock them linearly feel like the game forces you to play in a single way. And if all the skills are available since the start the progression and learning curves got broken because there's too much stuff to learn at the start of the game and the player gets bored with tutorials and stuff when what he wants to do is to play, and later in the game gets bored because there are no new skils and techniques to learn during a lot of hours once he mastered the available ones.

This is why game design evolved into skill trees for long games, because it's a better option than the other ones. Obviously not the only thing that influences on game progression, discovery, learning curve, etc. but it's key to solve many game design issues that the old, in many cases outdated, methods have.

Sometimes it isn't named skill tree and isn't shown like that in a menu. But are cars that get unlocked in a tree order on a racing game, or armors in Monster Hunter that get unlocked following the tree. Or the main story missions also organized in a tree in games like GTA or Detroit. Or guns/weapons unlocked following a tree in a shooter. At the end they are skill trees too. They won't allow you to unlock/discover/get/do something unless before you completed the previous steps of that branch of the tree.

In terms of UI is good to let the player know in a single screen his progress, what steps he can do next in order to engage him to continue playing more to collect whaterver in needed to get the next one (XP, craftables, etc) acting also as a suggestion if he doesn't know what to do next, and at the same time to include there the tutorial without being invasived during gameplay, and also as a reminder of how skills unlocked many hours before are unlocked. And way more that I won't explain because the post is already too long.
 
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Craig of War

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Yeah so? Who cares? Where's the variety from Microsoft? Where's the variety from Nintendo? Does Xbox have exclusive RPGs? What's their biggest action adventure game?
Sounds like im arguing with a kid please do your research before talking nonsense please.

Here is the variety from Xbox. Halo FPS, Doom FPS, Wolfenstein FPS, Starfield RPG, Avowed RPG, Fable RPG, Fallout RPG, Elder Scrolls RPG, Flight Simulator SIM, Forza Racing, Gears TPS, Killer Instinct Fighting, Sea of Thieves 1st person action adventure Hellblade 2 Third person action adventure & more that i don't have time to list.


Here is the variety from Nintendo. Breath Of The Wild RPG, Mario Platformer, Captain Toad Platformer, Mario Kart Racing, Smash Bros Fighting, Pokemon ARPG, Animal Crossing Adventure, Splatoon Shooter, Pikmin strategy/puzzle, Xenoblade Chronicles ARPG, & more that i don't have time to list.

And by the way all of the games i list are from actual 1st party studios that Xbox and Nintendo own wile you list 3rd party exclusive which are not made by Sony 1st party playstation own studios.
 
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MrFunSocks

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The problem with AAA games is that they like to play it too safe with the design, and just follow popular trends blindly and compulsorily.

Those skill tree unlockables are probably the biggest plague to hit modern games.
Not that there's anything wrong with them, but it's just that it feels like designers can't come up with anything else different.

And so even in games that don't even need those things, they feel the need to follow some "design checklist" and add stuff without even requiring to do so.
I'm not sure if it's designers that are just that dumb and can't think for themselves, or if it's for marketing reasons.

Whenever I see those dumb skill trees on non-RPGs I just avoid buying them.
It's just fluff for the sake of it. Most games don't need it, especially action games.
The problem is that when games don't do pointless fluff like that to artificially inflate game length, they get torn to shreds by places like this.
 
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Kagey K

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Sony's timed exclusives are Sony exclusives. For an undetermined amount of time you won't play them on another console. In the case they get ever released in other consoles, because for different reasons not all timed exclusives get released in other consoles.
Gotta lay down, so dizzy from this spin.

So now we are going to argue about the quality of the timedness of timed exclusives?

There really is a defense force for everything.
 
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Not Sony games.
Does it prevent you from playing them without the Sony Studio logo?

Sony funds the games. Games like Kena, Little Devil inside, Deathloop. They are less risky because they dont 100% fund them. But their consumers still get to enjoy them.

Games like Tearaway, Dreams, Concrete Genie, Astro Bot Resue Mission, Farpoint, The inpatient, Firewall: Zero Hour, sackboy.. and more exist.
 

AmuroChan

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Sony doesn't own a studio who can do a Skyrim-type RPG. Studios are not built and constructed to be able to make any genre of games. You can't ask Naughty Dog to make a driving simulation game, or Polyphony to make a FPS. If you're looking for a true WRPG in the vain of Witcher or Skyrim, XBox is the console for you. The best that PlayStation 1st party can offer right now are psuedo-RPGs like Horizon and Bloodborne.

PlayStation gamers seem to really like the 3rd person action games that are Sony's bread and butter. Those are the games that consistently sell the best for them. When Sony dabbles in other genres, they generally don't do well commercially (ie. Concrete Genie, Sackboy, Knack, Dreams, MediEvil, PS All Stars, MAG, Wonderbook, Warhawk, etc). The only real exceptions are GT and MLB.
 
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Kagey K

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PlayStation gamers seem to really like the 3rd person action games that are Sony's bread and butter. Those are the games that consistently sell the best for them.
Even those games are only selling to 10 - 20% of the userbase.
 
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SlimeGooGoo

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The problem is that when games don't do pointless fluff like that to artificially inflate game length, they get torn to shreds by places like this.
Well, some people complain about everything (don't look at me!)

I liked the fact that Uncharted 1 & 2 weren't longer than they needed to be.
It was about right in lenght, without requiring extra fluff to prolong it further.
 

Kagey K

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yurinka said:
It's dumb to expect to have a publisher cover all their genres. Sony as publisher covers more genres than anyone else.

2D platformers, RTS and Survivals are totally irrelevant in console. They don't sell enough in console to generate interest.

Wrong.

But you already know that.

I can think of multiple publishers that cover all those genres.

To pretend they aren't successful on consoles is like plugging your ears and closing your eyes to the facts, while screaming la la la la.
 
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SlimeGooGoo

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Skill trees are an standard feature in certain genres because it's one of the best game design tools to add progression and discovery to the game unlocking new skills and techniques
I would argue it's the most used, not necessarily the best. Probably the safest.
See, my main issue is with designers not really trying to come up with different alternatives and simply embracing whatever is popular because they feel like it's the only choice.

and making it in a non-linear way, so the player can customize his gameplay progression to adapt it to its personal preferences and express himself.
No offense, I just think that's a lot of buzzwords. Most games aren't even that complex to allow a huge variety of interactions.
And those that allow some creative interactions (e.g. Zelda) don't really need it.

In some genres, long games without unlocking skills/techniques end being too boring and repetitive, and the ones who unlock them linearly feel like the game forces you to play in a single way.
RPGs and action RPGs are probably the main genres that require this, I agree. Because character skill has priority over player skill.
And so, the only way to improve the characters is by skills and abilities, level, equipment and so on.

But for action games I disagree completely. Player skill should be the priority.
This is just companies trying to make the game dumb and simple for the masses, and adding this fluff to make it sound complex.
So even bad players can feel "powerful".

This is why game design evolved into skill trees for long games, because it's a better option than the other ones
Oompa Loompa, do-ba-dee-doo, I've got a chicken and egg question for you.
Are the games long because of the skill tree fluff was added, or they were already long without it?

Also, disagree with "evolution". It's just another option for designers.

Obviously not the only thing that influences on game progression, discovery, learning curve, etc. but it's key to solve many game design issues.
I think it's kinda the safe way out though.
 
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Nothing prevents me from anything, but they also don't address the question in the OP.

Which honestly is a fair question, that seems to have upset some people.
It a useless question. Why would Sony have its major studios not release games that are wildly popular just because. They have third party partnerships for that. Like I mentioned, they’ve release games like Tearaway, Dreams, Concrete Genie, Astro Bot Resue Mission, Farpoint, The inpatient, Firewall: Zero Hour, sackboy. Skill trees isnt mandated by Jim Ryan. Its just a very common aspect of most games. Management isnt going to say ok no more games can have skill trees, or a inventory system, Naughty Dog why dont you have costumes? Its Playstation Studio policy.

The funniest part about this is Sony has released things other publisher’s wouldnt. The most experiment types of games.



These are all risky games. And widely regarded as the best in their genre.



“Today, we’re thrilled to announce a partnership with Sony Interactive Entertainment for our new, original multiplayer game.”

I am currently playing Ghost of Tsushima, Deathloop, Kena.. but ill be “oh I need Sonys biggest studios making a RPG or a strategy game”, for what?
 
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Sounds like im arguing with a kid please do your research before talking nonsense please.

Here is the variety from Xbox. Halo FPS, Doom FPS, Wolfenstein FPS, Starfield RPG, Avowed RPG, Fable RPG, Fallout RPG, Elder Scrolls RPG, Flight Simulator SIM, Forza Racing, Gears TPS, Killer Instinct Fighting, Sea of Thieves 1st person action adventure Hellblade 2 Third person action adventure & more that i don't have time to list.

Bolded: multiplats all available on Playstation consoles.
Fable: Dead, old, franchise, new one to be released no sooner than 2023+
Avowed: close to vaporware so far
Killer instinct: Old and dead.

I see you mentioning lots of OLD stuff that also happen to be MULTIPLAT (the old titles also available on an Xbox), it sounds like I'm talking with a retard. Should I list Psone, PSP, Vita, PS2 and PS3 exclusive games as well? Since you are listing old shit that don't even have an exclusive sequel on Xbox yet? How is that library of vaporware working for them so far huh? Lmao
Here is the variety from Nintendo. Breath Of The Wild RPG, Mario Platformer, Captain Toad Platformer, Mario Kart Racing, Smash Bros Fighting, Pokemon ARPG, Animal Crossing Adventure, Splatoon Shooter, Pikmin strategy/puzzle, Xenoblade Chronicles ARPG, & more that i don't have time to list.
Platformers galore. 1 RPG. 1 racing game. 1 fighting game. I don't see a big difference with Sony's variety.
And by the way all of the games i list are from actual 1st party studios that Xbox and Nintendo own wile you list 3rd party exclusive which are not made by Sony 1st party playstation own studios.
Big whoop. Works for them, no need to pay 7.5 billion to have tons of stuff that still needs lots of money to be developed and not making a dime for years. Variety is variety and at the moment Playstation has tons and doesn't need to change a thing since it's working.
 
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Sony needs a Forza Horizon game. They've got Polyphony with the car models and attention to detail. They just need a studio to expand the Gran Turismo IP to something beyond the track.

I've imagined an open world racer with GT cars for so long and you have these special Vision GT cars.
Why have they not looked at these special cars and tried to make a Speed Racer meets Wipe-Out type mode or even standalone arcade game. An arcade game based on real life models but with Polyphony attention to detail and heavy customization.

Like seriously. Expand the fucking Gran Turismo IP. It already has a loyal following in the tens of millions. There won't be any sales issue with new games with the GT name. You can slap GT on a steaming pile of shit and people would line up for it.

FUCK
 
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THEAP99

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Yah. Honestly, outside of naughty dog, Sony really doesn't have any studios that excel at what they do when compared against the rest of the industry. I'm really getting tired of many open world games they're making. Like they literally only have one of their big studios (naughty dog) working on a strictly linear game. Whereas Suckerpunch, insomniac, bend, guerilla, are all working on Ubisoft type of open world games. Sure, ratchet and clank & god of war are semi open world not fully open or linear, but honestly they're leaning into the open world more with the amount of backtracking and filler activities. Gets tiring. Need more high-quality dense linear games. Less formulaic look at something on the map and go to it.
 
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Kagey K

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I am currently playing Ghost of Tsushima, Deathloop, Kena.. but ill be “oh I need Sonys biggest studios making a RPG or a strategy game”, for what?
When only 1 of the games you mention is actually a Sony game you help to prove his point.

And why wouldn't they want to branch out into those other genres to appease fans of those games instead of them going looking elsewhere to find them?
 
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lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Mar 8, 2021
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I want Sony to venture out into different genre, like a survival crafting game under Sony 1st party studio.
 
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