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[NotGivingMyNameToADamnCom]

As for Paz, she's in her 20s at that point and didn't look all that underage to me. She just has a small body type. Not all women are big and she's not that much different from my 37 year old gf who is only 5'2 and very slim.

I could get behind maybe the way she talks as some infantilization thing but there's

Spoiler

kind of a story reason for that

. Anyway the real purpose for the midriff probably was so it was easier for her to

Spoiler

dig inside her own stomach.

. I honestly didn't have a huge issue with Paz, Quiet I agree was oversexualized and way beyond the outfit.

These characters aren't real. They cannot make their own decisions. They are not "women with agency" or "choosing their wardrobe", they are deliberately designed creations with the express intent of titilation for no other reason than for titilation. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't A) heavily skewed towards a male demographic and B) heavily skewed towards women taking the brunt of the fan servicing. They are designed in a mostly male vacuum, from a mostly male perspective, and born in a mostly male dominated corporate culture.

So many of us (mostly men) take for granted just how goddamn pandered to we are, in ways that we don't even think about anymore. How many memes has Miranda's ass from Mass Effect created, and how many other asses have we completely glossed over and not even realize were there, but for a woman was yet another tick mark on the "another goddamn ass" list?

I agree the 'you must just be a prude' thing is a bad excuse, it's obviously not always a celebration of the female form, but it probably can be some times.

But what's the idea just pause fan service until we get to some acceptable gender split in development, writing, and the board room and come around creating games with fan servicing that has equally heterosexual/homosexual and equally male/female audiences? Also I guess we wait for it to happen in Japan? I mean, I and a lot other people are not going to stop enjoying the pandering because of the inequity in pandering, the same way conflict in the middle east doesn't make me stop putting gas in my car.

I think the whole idea of being 'against' fan service just leads to a lot of nit picking as well. Like earlier some Overwatch art got criticized for being escher and too boob socky? I honestly couldn't see it at all, I thought the stuff looked fine, and I felt like because it looked fine people were working extra hard to find an issue with it. It just seemed like some throwing shit to see what sticks.

I think games are getting better, but I don't think it's going to happen fast or soon and I'm just not going to start swearing off certain foreign games over it. Actually I really doubt my purchasing habits are driving any Japanese trends. Also for reference here is my FFXIV character, which is actually a really good game I think in regards to MMO gear for male/female

Me in the back of course.

Change like that does not "come naturally". It has to be fought for. Like people are fighting you in this thread.

Actually I would say there is a pretty big divide between a gender revolution in Japan and the posts on this forum.

 

[Cloyster]

When I can maybe stop hearing news stories about how hard it was to decide on the protagonist of Horizon being a women, or maybe commending the fact that like 4 or 5 games at E3 2014 had female portags or the CRAZY fact that they had two black women on stage at the same time (followed by tons of jokes that they look the same) then maybe I'll believe that we are there.

Indies? Come the fuck on. This may be a shock, but s lot of people want AAA EXPERIENCES. That's like saying "it's okay that there are hardly any Hollywood movies with minotity or female leads! Go watch indie movies or stuff on YouTube!"

 

[wyrdwad]

When I can maybe stop hearing news stories about how hard it was to decide on the protagonist of Horizon being a women, or maybe commending the fact that like 4 or 5 games at E3 2014 had female portags or the CRAZY fact that they had two black women on stage at the same time (followed by tons of jokes that they look the same) then maybe I'll believe that we are there.

Indies? Come the fuck on. This may be a shock, but s lot of people want AAA EXPERIENCES. That's like saying "it's okay that there are hardly any Hollywood movies with minotity or female leads! Go watch indie movies or stuff on YouTube!"

Spoken like someone who hasn't played an indie game in a while!

Modern indies are easily as good as if not better than any AAA experience out there. It's practically all I've been playing lately, and it seems I'm not alone -- indie sales are up throughout the industry, while AAA sales are way down. People have started to realize that if they want a really good gaming experience, they're not going to get it from AAA games anymore.

Basically, indies are the new AAA. That's what I mean when I say that today's indie developers will be tomorrow's AAA developers --- AAA companies are folding left and right, while indie companies are growing exponentially. I absolutely foresee company takeovers in the coming years.

My game of the year 2014 was Freedom Planet, an indie title that's only recently begun to pick up steam (no pun intended), and which has an absolutely wonderful cast of three main protagonists who are all female, all kick ass, and are never once sexualized or even romanced.

I highly recommend picking it up and supporting the developers. If you've ever liked platformers or Sonic the Hedgehog games, trust me, you will not regret it -- as far as I'm concerned, it's far superior to any Sonic game that has ever been made, including the 16-bit classics. It's an absolute masterpiece.

I want to see more games like that in the industry -- please don't think my defense of "anime boobs" means that's what I hope the future of gaming looks like, because believe me, I don't. I don't even really like the Senran Kagura games -- they're not my style at all. I'd be thrilled if we could release a larger percentage of more progressive titles, and I know the rest of the office agrees with me on that.

But by that same token, we're not going to turn down a good game just because it's got skimpy outfits or boob jiggle or what-not. A good game is a good game, and if we feel our fans will enjoy it, we'll make a bid.

-Tom

 

[Cloyster]

Spoken like someone who hasn't played an indie game in a while!

Modern indies are easily as good as if not better than any AAA experience out there. It's practically all I've been playing lately, and it seems I'm not alone -- indie sales are up throughout the industry, while AAA sales are way down. People have started to realize that if they want a really good gaming experience, they're not going to get it from AAA games anymore.

Basically, indies are the new AAA. That's what I mean when I say that today's indie developers will be tomorrow's AAA developers --- AAA companies are folding left and right, while indie companies are growing exponentially. I absolutely foresee company takeovers in the coming years.

My game of the year 2014 was Freedom Planet, an indie title that's only recently begun to pick up steam (no pun intended), and which has an absolutely wonderful cast of three main protagonists who are all female, all kick ass, and are never once sexualized or even romanced.

I highly recommend picking it up and supporting the developers. If you've ever liked platformers or Sonic the Hedgehog games, you will not regret it.

-Tom

I play Indie Games every day. NO, not a SINGLE indie game has achieved the level of presentation and polish from an AAA perspective like Assassin's Creed, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted and more.

Did you ignore my Holltwood Movies and Indie Movies analogy? Indie games are fun, obviously, but they are not AAA games.

If a person tells you they want more minority and women leads in movies, don't tell them to go on Youtube

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Why does how much money is being spent on a game matter more than the game itself?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I play Indie Games every day. NO, not a SINGLE indie game has achieved the level of presentation and polish from an AAA perspective like Assassin's Creed, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted and more.

Did you ignore my Holltwood Movies and Indie Movies analogy? Indie games are fun, obviously, but they are not AAA games.

If a person tells you they want more minority and women leads in movies, don't tell them to go on Youtube

The logic is today's indies are tomorrow's AAAs, and based on the trajectory of both, I'd say that's a far assessment. It's really not comparable to film because the widespread incline/decline isn't as extreme in that industry.

 

[Cloyster]

Why does how much money is being spent on a game matter more than the game itself?

Are you trying to deny that the kinds of experiences being given by AAA games are the same as indie games?

 

[wyrdwad]

I play Indie Games every day. NO, not a SINGLE indie game has achieved the level of presentation and polish from an AAA perspective like Assassin's Creed, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted and more.

Did you ignore my Holltwood Movies and Indie Movies analogy? Indie games are fun, obviously, but they are not AAA games.

If a person tells you they want more minority and women leads in movies, don't tell them to go on Youtube

I ignored your analogy because I disagree with it -- I genuinely feel indie games are, on the whole, far superior to AAA games right now, so I don't see it as sending people to YouTube. I see it as saying, hey, don't bother with that summer blockbuster -- there's a Sundance Film Festival winner playing at the independent theater down the street. Go see that instead!

If you want more blockbuster movies with minority and women leads, then no, I can't really help you. But I sincerely do believe that in a few years, the people who are making the art-house films I'm recommending now will be the ones in charge of the major studios -- which means, breaking the metaphor, that AAA games down the road are going to look a lot more like indie games now (but with higher budgets).

And that's a future I'm really looking forward to, because I honestly can't stand modern AAA games. I haven't truly enjoyed one since... God, I don't even know. PS2 era, I guess.

There are always the niche titles in between, though -- the ones that we specialize in. They're not quite AAA, but they're higher-budget than indie. And they're a pretty mixed bag when it comes to diversity, but I still think they're a little more diverse than the full-on AAA titles you find out there nowadays. And as the AAA industry starts to head more in the direction of modern indies, so too will the niche companies.

Things really are getting better. They're just still in transition.

And like I said, for as much as I may defend "anime boobs"... I genuinely don't like them, and I really hope to see more diversity in future gaming.

...I just don't feel like I have to hope that hard, because I'm extremely optimistic that I will. All signs point to it happening, and I have no reason to believe it won't.

-Tom

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Are you trying to deny that the kinds of experiences being given by AAA games are the same as indie games?

Not every game gives the same experience in the first place.

 

[wyrdwad]

Not every game gives the same experience in the first place.

Heh. Just compare Freedom Planet with Sonic Boom.

I know which one *I* feel is the better Sonic experience!

-Tom

 

[theprodigy]

It's not about the type of experience, it's about the level of exposure.

. Thank you

Why go off on the tangent about "experiences" in the first place?

 

[Cloyster]

It's not about the type of experience, it's about the level of exposure.

. Thank you

 

[wyrdwad]

It's not about the type of experience, it's about the level of exposure.

Level of exposure means nothing, though. A good game is a good game. Whether you're the only person who knows about it or one of a million people who are all eagerly anticipating it, there's little difference once the controller is in your hands. If it's enjoyable, it's enjoyable.

...Multiplayer notwithstanding, anyway. I'll admit, I *never* play multiplayer games, so it's hard for me to judge that side of things. But most of the games that have been discussed in this topic are primarily single-player experiences, so I don't think that's relevant here.

-Tom

 

[Cloyster]

Level of exposure means nothing, though. A good game is a good game. Whether you're the only person who knows about it or one of a million people who are all eagerly anticipating it, there's little difference once the controller is in your hands. If it's enjoyable, it's enjoyable.

...Multiplayer notwithstanding, anyway. But admittedly, I *never* play multiplayer games, so it's hard for me to judge that side of things in any way.

-Tom

BS. If more gamers were seeing AAA experiences with female leads kicking ass and not being sexualized, they might be less mean and misogynistic towards women.

Instead we have tons of that even on this very forum.

 

[jurgen]

Heh. Just compare Freedom Planet with Sonic Boom.

I know which one *I* feel is the better Sonic experience!

-Tom

You do know you're comparing a game that was more of a labor of love for 4-5 years of development to one made under contract as a tie-in cash grab and rushed, right?

BS. If more gamers were seeing AAA experiences with female leads kicking ass and not being sexualized, they might be less mean and misogynistic towards women.

If you could clarify what context you're using "mean and misogynistic towards women" that would be awesome but I don't think that's because of a lack of great female characters in AAA video games. I think it's more of a macrocultural/internet thing than the fact that video games aren't conforming to what we think are our ideal representations of one gender.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

I don't know. Level of exposure was why people thought for example, Nintendo did not make new ips because they don't have the same level of exposure as Splatoon.

It's part of why I'm not entirely fond of the there's a game for everyone in the market argument.

 

[Mik317]

When I can maybe stop hearing news stories about how hard it was to decide on the protagonist of Horizon being a women, or maybe commending the fact that like 4 or 5 games at E3 2014 had female portags or the CRAZY fact that they had two black women on stage at the same time (followed by tons of jokes that they look the same) then maybe I'll believe that we are there.

Indies? Come the fuck on. This may be a shock, but s lot of people want AAA EXPERIENCES. That's like saying "it's okay that there are hardly any Hollywood movies with minotity or female leads! Go watch indie movies or stuff on YouTube!"

Yeah it sucked that they had to work so hard to get a female lead for Horizon. It sucks that Indivisible couldn't get publishing because of their female protag. However, the 4-5 games being announced shows that there is progress being made...and it is up to you/us to support that progress buy supporting those games. Yelling on the internet, does fuck all.

Its small and should be better...but it is there

 

[Crossing Eden]

Level of exposure means nothing, though. A good game is a good game. Whether you're the only person who knows about it or one of a million people who are all eagerly anticipating it, there's little difference once the controller is in your hands. If it's enjoyable, it's enjoyable.

...Multiplayer notwithstanding, anyway. I'll admit, I *never* play multiplayer games, so it's hard for me to judge that side of things. But most of the games that have been discussed in this topic are primarily single-player experiences, so I don't think that's relevant here.

-Tom

By level of exposure they mean level of exposure to the mainstream market. Rarely do Indie games have a large marketing budget aside from letting LP'ers get free copies for more exposure. Lots of people I know have never heard of Undertale despite it coming out quite recently and getting lots of good word of mouth just to give an example. And even with a bigger marketing budget the project might not be as successful do to having a protagonist who's a woman.

 

[wyrdwad]

BS. If more gamers were seeing AAA experiences with female leads kicking ass and not being sexualized, they might be less mean and misongynistic towards women.

I... can't entirely disagree with that statement, and I'd absolutely love to see that happen.

Though I've always personally felt it's more the other way around -- real life doesn't reflect gaming, but rather gaming reflects real life. As in, when people start becoming less mean and misogynistic toward women, that will be reflected in game design, as opposed to the changes in game design coming first and being later reflected in real life.

I know media can influence people, but I don't buy that it can inherently change a well-adjusted person's core values. The days of propaganda films are over, and I very much see modern media as a window into our souls, showing us for who we are at this moment in time.

When we improve our selves, our media will improve as well.

And I believe we are improving our selves, slowly but surely, which is why we're seeing an improvement in our media -- beginning at the indie fringes, but slowly soaking its way into the roots.

-Tom

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Yeah it sucked that they had to work so hard to get a female lead for Horizon. It sucks that Indivisible couldn't get publishing because of their female protag. However, the 4-5 games being announced shows that there is progress being made...and it is up to you/us to support that progress buy supporting those games. Yelling on the internet, does fuck all.

This is our chance.

I second this.

I understand if it's a bad game then that's one thing. If not, then support it. Show them that you are not all bark and no money.

Making these games is a two way street. Both the developer and the consumer have to live up to their part of the deal

 

[wyrdwad]

Anyway, it does seem like I've offended some of you, so I'm going to bow out of this topic. I'm truly sorry if my words have been in any way hurtful to any of you -- this is just one of those topics that I'm very passionate about, and I tend to get overly emotional whenever it comes up (thus almost quitting the best job I ever had over it!).

I know some of you have taken my words to imply that I'm a misogynist who doesn't care about women, or that I'm a huge fan of anime boobs and don't care what other people think of them... and if you feel that way about me, I probably won't be able to convince you it's not true without denouncing the things I *do* believe. But for the record... I do not like anime boobs, and I'm extremely concerned by the lack of equal representation in the gaming industry. I sincerely think things are getting better in that regard, however, and are already the best they've ever been -- but there's still a long way to go, and the way to get there isn't by censoring the content we don't like, but creating the content we do to counterbalance it. If you want to see the gaming industry diversify... then help diversify it by making the games you want to see. They WILL catch on, and they WILL influence the rest of the industry -- of that I have no doubt -- and I'll be absolutely thrilled when that happens.

Let's make the gaming industry better by making it more prolific, not more restrictive.

-Tom

 

[Boss Doggie]

By the way, you guys should look up on fujoshi if you think females don't get their own fanservice. Just because it isn't showing skin doesn't mean there's no fanservice.

 

[kuroneko0509]

By the way, you guys should look up on fujoshi if you think females don't get their own fanservice. Just because it isn't showing skin doesn't mean there's no fanservice.

I think that's what some folks were saying earlier, that Japan is a bit more progressive in the equal pandering compared to the West. Meanwhile the other topic talks about sexualizing men, and honestly Japan is more inline with that with otome games and more so, content aimed at Fujoshi. But as also mentioned, there's a cultural clash there, as Japan females would prefer feminine men in comparison to what women in the West would want.

 

[encephalon]

Ah yes, "rotten girls." That's the group in which females are empowered to their very own special pandering, the one with the derision the group is met with, written in its very name.

 

[wyrdwad]

Ah yes, "rotten girls." That's the group in which females are empowered to their very own special pandering, the one with the derision the group is met with, written in its very name.

It's worn as a badge of honor, like "otaku" -- which is also a derogatory term, but has been claimed by the very group it was meant to deride.

Or in American terms, like the word "nerd," which certainly began as an insult but is now a term of pride among us nerds.

...And yes, I'm still here. Sorry. I have trouble letting go. I'll click away now, I promise!

-Tom

 

[kuroneko0509]

It's worn as a badge of honor, like "otaku" -- which is also a derogatory term, but has been claimed by the very group it was meant to deride.

Or in American terms, like the word "nerd," which certainly began as an insult but is now a term of pride among us nerds.

...And yes, I'm still here. Sorry. I have trouble letting go. I'll click away now, I promise!

-Tom

You're the best. Shame you're leaving us!

 

[encephalon]

The reason why change is coming to indie games and a small number of AAA games isn't "natural," at all. It's happening because the west talks. It's happening because the west complains, the west criticizes, and the west discusses. Leave your arguments over what is and isn't "art" at the door. It doesn't matter anyways. We should be free to criticize such art, we should be free to say that such "art" would be better without certain elements or if something had been done differently, we should be able to suggest that developers exercise better judgment. Because asking for such things is not the same as calling for "censorship," nor is it soiling an environment where art is not allowed to flourish. Because art was never in some ethereal realm, above all criticism to begin with.

Left to its "natural" processes, the dedicated Japanese video game market will only become more inclusive, more entrenched in its ways, and more determined to pander to the reliable groups such fanservice is aimed towards.

It's worn as a badge of honor, like "otaku" -- which is also a
derogatory term, but has been claimed by the very group it was meant to deride.

Or in American terms, like the word "nerd," which certainly began as an insult but is now a term of pride among us nerds.

...And yes, I'm still here. Sorry. I have trouble letting go. I'll click away now, I promise!

-Tom

Just because they've chosen to own it, doesn't mean its free of the context of toxicity directed towards depictions of homosexual relationships or women who seek out media depicting them. It doesn't exist within a progressive environment at all.

It's fine if "otaku" is seen as a badge of honor by those who chose to wear it, but that doesn't mean it's not largely a derogatory term within Japan.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Ah yes, "rotten girls." That's the group in which females are empowered to their very own special pandering, the one with the derision the group is met with, written in its very name.

The point is you get a similar fanservice though, and that there is no one-sided fanservice.

...and are we seriously pulling a superior culture crap?

 

[Platy]

By the way, you guys should look up on fujoshi if you think females don't get their own fanservice. Just because it isn't showing skin doesn't mean there's no fanservice.

Fujoshis works with SCRAPS considered to what horny males have.
People will be horny whatever happens, how the market deals with it is the problem

 

[encephalon]

The point is you get a similar fanservice though, and that there is no one-sided fanservice.

...and are we seriously pulling a superior culture crap?

It's not about the west being some sort of "superior culture." It isn't. But there are reasons why things are happening in the west that are not happening in Japan.

 

[kuroneko0509]

It's not about the west being some sort of "superior culture." It isn't. But there are reasons why things are happening in the west that are not happening in Japan.

The same could be said with the current argument as well in that things happening in Japan haven't happened in the West either. Or maybe slowly. Thank you Aksys and alike.

 

[encephalon]

The same could be said with the current argument as well in that things happening in Japan haven't happened in the West either. Or maybe slowly. Thank you Aksys and alike.

Like what?

 

[Boss Doggie]

It's not about the west being some sort of "superior culture." It isn't. But there are reasons why things are happening in the west that are not happening in Japan.

I always thought it's the "western sensibilities" that affected certain censorship in Japan, like no more nudity for humor.

Fujoshis works with SCRAPS considered to what horny males have.
People will be horny whatever happens, how the market deals with it is the problem

Eh I dunno, there's equal market for both. And you always see pandering on boths sides in works.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Like what?

Aksys wasn't a hint? Otome games and the male designs here and there that are designed for the female gaze. And a somewhat more inclusive take for female gamers such as the Tales series. As mentioned earlier, gaming was actually more widely accepted for both genders early on in Japan in comparison to the West.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

Fan service in games doesn't bother me. On a related note, I am not bothered by women who choose to wear revealing clothing in real life. There is nothing wrong with a real woman wearing a shirt skirt or a low-cut top. There's nothing wrong with fictional characters wearing provocative clothing either.

Some people get upset with the idea of sexy Halloween costumes, but those people are rightfully ignored by most of society. I'm completely unimpressed by people who try to impose their ideas of what is "appropriate" on others. I'm equally unimpressed by people who try to impose their ideas on artists and designers. In general, I have no time for people who take a super conservative stance on an issue under the guise of being a progressive.

 

[encephalon]

I always thought it's the "western sensibilities" that affected certain censorship in Japan, like no more nudity for humor.



Eh I dunno, there's equal market for both. And you always see pandering on boths sides in works.

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Anyways, Japan is a conservative society.

I don't really think this is a fair comparison. Sure, you can find stuff like the example from the tales series more blatantly pandering towards that persuasion, but Platy is right. It's not like there's fanservice in equal amounts, nor is it a situation where fanservice depicting sexualized men is nearly unavoidable, the same way it is with sexualized women. But I don't have my heart in this debate, because I don't personally feel that the answer is more sexualized depictions of men.

 

[Krelian91]

If you mean sexy fanservice, then it bothers me pretty much all the time especially in serious games, unless the game revolves around it (like Senran Kagura).

 

[Boss Doggie]

I remember seeing outright naked characters in Japanese old shows and naked children. The idea is it's either humorous (former, i.e. gag from an explosion) or innocent (latter, i.e. bathhouse).

And like I said, maybe it's because I'm more exposed, but I frankly have a hard time not finding a non-fujoshi character or a male character with traits that appeal to fujoshi.

Oh well, at least Japan video games panders to my outlandish fantasies. West still does jack shit to that.

 

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

Even if you consider content in a game to be perverted and classless... let the classless perverts have it! They deserve to enjoy their games just as much as the rest of us. And to say that it "taints" the game for the rest of us is no different than saying having someone of a different race, or sexual orientation, taints the neighborhood.

-Tom

 

[encephalon]

Aksys wasn't a hint? Otome games and the male designs here and there that are designed for the female gaze. And a somewhat more inclusive take for female gamers such as the Tales series. As mentioned earlier, gaming was actually more widely accepted for both genders early on in Japan in comparison to the West.

I'm not incredibly familiar with the games Aksys localizes, so I wouldn't know if they specialize in Otome games or anything.

The "female gaze?"

 

[HK-47]

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Anyways, Japan is a conservative society.

I don't really think this is a fair comparison. Sure, you can find stuff like the example from the tales series more blatantly pandering towards that persuasion, but Platy is right. It's not like there's fanservice in equal amounts, nor is it a situation where fanservice depicting sexualized men is nearly unavoidable, the same way it is with sexualized women. But I don't have my heart in this debate, because I don't personally feel that the answer is more sexualized depictions of men.

Yes. I just facepalm went people assume more sexualized men is a decent solution instead of a better depiction of female. It often feels like we are in some bargaining stage where we will trade more sexualization of men if you'll just stop talking about our fanservice and sexualized female designs.

 

[Boss Doggie]

It's not a solution. I just simply stated that only males get fanservice is not really true. It's just that, at least in Japan, there's a different method of doing it.

I'm still waiting West to do fanservice for me.

 

[Metrotab]

I'm an extremist when it comes to artistic freedom, so I'm never really "bothered" with content in general. Since I tend to enjoy fanservice and sexualized female characters, and have a mature mindset that can recognise the difference between reality and fiction, fanservice has yet to bother me in any game I've played or come across.

Whether I will play the game or not is dependent on a whole lot of parameters, including content, but that's a much more subconscious process rather than me checking a list of prerequisites.

I hope fanservice will never completely disappear from gaming.

 

[schlynch]

yes. recently I didn't bought Fatal Frame 5 after seeing these terrible costumes you can get (or buy, dunno). can't take the game serious after seeing them and they look ugly too. there were games in the past I didn't bought because of similar things. can't support something like that.

 

[Mithos]

yes. recently I didn't bought Fatal Frame 5 after seeing these terrible costumes you can get (or buy, dunno). can't take the game serious after seeing them and they look ugly too. there were games in the past I didn't bought because of similar things. can't support something like that.

Yeah, the Zelda costume and Zero Suit outfit.. awful, just awful, its why I won't buy Hyrule Warriors, or Smash Bros.

 

[OmegaX0]

If more gamers were seeing AAA experiences with female leads kicking ass and not being sexualized, they might be less mean and misogynistic towards women.

I find it highly unlikely that people who hold these kinds views will change just because they see some different video game characters.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

48 pages later I doubt there is much I can add that hasn't already been said but I'm still 4gonna say my piece: If by "fanservice" you mean "Here is this really cool character only now she is almost naked" then yes. Yes it bothers me. I find the idea that fans of a series need to see a character naked quite troubling, especially if I consider myself a fan of said series or game (like for example Person 4).

I'm NOT saying those people are perverts, I'm not saying "there is something wrong with them" but I don't like the implication that this is for the "fans" because I'm a fan of P4 and I didn't like that shit they put into Golden one bit.

 

[Cloyster]

I find it highly unlikely that people who hold these kinds views will change just because they see some different video game characters.

Huge amounts of change done overtime definitely do have an effect on young boys who play video games and grow up with them. I'm not saying the adult men who hold these views now will be changed, but our little brothers, nephews and sons might.

Having so very little female representation in video games, combined with the stigma against video game, turning nerds vindictive against girls that wouldn't go out with them because they were weird, had poor hygeine, and were super nerdy and awkward, plus add in the fact that the only friends these guys have also have those same attitudes which reinforces them, leads to a lot of sexism.

 

[Palculator]

Huge amounts of change done overtime definitely do have an effect on young boys who play video games and grow up with them. I'm not saying the adult men who hold these views now will be changed, but our little brothers, nephews and sons might.

Having so very little female representation in video games, combined with the stigma against video game, turning nerds vindictive against girls that wouldn't go out with them because they were weird, had poor hygeine, and were super nerdy and awkward, plus add in the fact that the only friends these guys have also have those same attitudes which reinforces them, leads to a lot of sexism.

I'd say all the other factors you mentioned have a much greater importance regarding this issue, since gaming alone doesn't seem to be correlated with sexist attitudes.

 

[demidar]

48 pages later I doubt there is much I can add that hasn't already been said but I'm still 4gonna say my piece: If by "fanservice" you mean "Here is this really cool character only now she is almost naked" then yes. Yes it bothers me. I find the idea that fans of a series need to see a character naked quite troubling, especially if I consider myself a fan of said series or game (like for example Person 4).

I'm NOT saying those people are perverts, I'm not saying "there is something wrong with them" but I don't like the implication that this is for the "fans" because I'm a fan of P4 and I didn't like that shit they put into Golden one bit.

I haven't played Golden but I've played the base game, but I get the feeling that I would hate all the fanservice they put in that game. P4 had very little (sexy) fanservice, every attempt Yosuke pulled to be skeevy blew up in his face and I liked that.