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[agrajag]

lol @ "waggling to spin improves the game." it's just a fucking button press mapped to waggle. it's always going to be less efficient and slower than a button press and no amount of verbal gymnastics you do will change that.

 

[AniHawk]

except i'm pretty sure we firmly established (using science and facts and yahoo search) that you're pretty much wrong.

you can still be right about the shake/roll thing sucking in dkcr though, if you want.

 

[AceBandage]

lol @ "waggling to spin improves the game." it's just a fucking button press mapped to waggle. it's always going to be less efficient and slower than a button press and no amount of verbal gymnastics you do will change that.

Just saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

 

[MYE]

lol @ "waggling to spin improves the game." it's just a fucking button press mapped to waggle. it's always going to be less efficient and slower than a button press and no amount of verbal gymnastics you do will change that.

It feels better then just pressing another button and provides variety to the way you perform these moves. The combination of button pressing and polished, easy to pull-off motion-controls is part of the freshness of the Galaxy games.

Its also efficient and precise enough to never show up as an issue in any of the SMG/SMG2 reviews out there.

So there, i completely disagree with you. What now?

 

[RagnarokX]

When you use it in Galaxy, it's kind of like Mario is a top and you're spinning him.

So I can see why it feels awkward.

That, and that most people have a tendency to shake their controllers in a futile attempt to save themselves from death. SMG makes those normally futile natural inclinations less futile.

 

[heringer]

lol @ "waggling to spin improves the game." it's just a fucking button press mapped to waggle. it's always going to be less efficient and slower than a button press and no amount of verbal gymnastics you do will change that.

I think it feels great and in no way I feel that I'm being handicapped by waggling instead of pressing a button. There's no noticeable loss of efficiency and whoever says there is is just plain wrong. That might be true with other games, but not with Galaxy.

 

[agrajag]

You can keep repeating that I'm wrong till the cows come home, but waggle is inherently less efficient than a button press.

 

[swerve]

There's no noticeable loss of efficiency and whoever says there is is just plain wrong. That might be true with other games, but not with Galaxy.

Those people are just not willing to learn a new way to play, in my experience. There is a knack to efficient waggle, just as there's a knack to holding two buttons at once (which you'd need to do to reproduce the quick-connection between jump and spin in Galaxy 2).

 

[Alex]

I dislike the waggle to spin, and it doesn't always work either, it's not some big plague of controls like... the entirety of the Okami Wii port but it has some mishaps from time to time that wouldnt occur on a button. Still a rather simple complaint, no real issue, but I'd also prefer just a button tap.

At the least though, they had the sense to let you waggle the nunchuck to spin, even though they always just tell you to do it to the remote. Which is silly because waggle + ir pointing at the same time = retarded.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Uh, I'm confused. Spinning was never based on a button press. Sunshine had spinning - I think it introduced it to the series, am I correct? - and it required the player to spin in a circle with the control stick and then jump. Waggle is significantly improved over this because it allows the player to spin on the ground and spin on the fly without having to use some broken mechanic. On top of all of this, waggle is much better of an idea than mapping it to any of the buttons. I can't imagine using C, Z, and A to do a long jump with a spin.

 

[Tathanen]

You can keep repeating that I'm wrong till the cows come home, but waggle is inherently less efficient than a button press.

Okay you win. Hooray good job! Print this post out, you can stick it on your refrigerator with an Elmo magnet.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Okay you win. Hooray good job! Print this post out, you can stick it on your refrigerator with an Elmo magnet.

It's true, though. When developers use waggle as a "button", an actual button is more efficient. Because when you press the button, the action immediately happens. With waggle, you have to wait for the system to "detect" the motion and then you have to deal with the possibility of the system either not detecting the motion properly or being too sensitive to motion...

 

[MYE]

It's true, though. When developers use waggle as a "button", an actual button is more efficient. Because when you press the button, the action immediately happens. With waggle, you have to wait for the system to "detect" the motion and then you have to deal with the possibility of the system either not detecting the motion properly or being too sensitive to motion...

What does any of that have to do with the Mario games on the Wii?

 

[AceBandage]

What does any of that have to do with the Mario games on the Wii?

Or the price of tea in China.

 

[redbarchetta]

With waggle, you have to wait for the system to "detect" [it]...

This is true of any form of input and is not unique to motion controls. I don't know how some of you are trying to perform the spin in Galaxy, but as one who wrote guides for both games, I never had a single issue with it. Perfectly responsive, and I never had problems with it reading my motions (a quick flick).

And in many cases, I find "waggle" to be better suited than a button press as it doesn't require me to move my thumb to a different button--a motion that you neglect to mention also takes time.

ETA: With all that being said, I will admit that as one who played the DKCR demo in Nintendo's meeting room at E3, I didn't feel that the gesture was a natural fit for the roll, particularly as it has been assigned to the run button in previous games (which also no longer exists).

However, I'm sure it's something I'd get used to, and even if not, it's mitigated by the fact that the game supports NES-style controls.

 

[KevinCow]

People had issues with the spin in Galaxy? I thought it sounded terrible and stupid at first, but it worked just fine in practice. I wouldn't say I preferred it to a button, but I didn't find it particularly inferior either.

Uh, I'm confused. Spinning was never based on a button press. Sunshine had spinning - I think it introduced it to the series, am I correct?

No, it's been around since Mario World, where it was pretty much just a smaller but more powerful jump. Since then, it's appeared here and there in various forms and has just generally done whatever the hell the developers have felt like making it do at the time.

 

[redbarchetta]

Because it's not precise. The spinning thing in Mario is not really a main mechanic, whereas in DKC it's crucial to the gameplay. Refer to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_zBn2yHUE

I can tell doing stuff like that with Wiimote waggle would be highly frustrating.

I do just that at 0:44 in this video we took at E3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPqdPrvcmTs

And that was my first time playing! In fact, I wasn't even sure if you could still do the roll-off-a-cliff-then-jump move until that very moment--which I then did several more times in the following levels (which actually impressed the Nintendo PR rep as everyone else had used the jetpack instead).

Like I said before, it may not feel "natural" (in my brief time with it), but it certainly wasn't "frustrating" and worked fine.

 

[autobzooty]

:lol

no

Galaxy's spin attack, and motion controls in general, felt great and its a better game because of it. Same thing goes for NSMBW and i'm sure the same thing will be said about DKCR.

If the fans getting kicked in the balls are the same who want to play SMG on a fucking dual-stick controller then i hope Nintendo has the iron boots equiped.

I don't want to play Galaxy on a dual stick controller necessarily. I highly enjoyed the ball rolling, manta ray surfing and bird riding from Galaxy 1 and 2. But what I don't enjoy is when motion control replaces a button press, because it is less precise and annoying. Personally I don't feel any tactile satisfaction from swatting my hand at the air while Mario punts a Goomba across the screen. You're hand is not connecting with anything and generally, my wrist just starts to get sore after a while. I know it's a tired argument, but it makes playing the game much less pleasant for me.

And I died many times in Galaxy 2 due to the imprecision of motion control, either from the controller registering a spin attack when I move around in my seat or from me desperately trying to shake to make an attack happen at a specific moment. You can make the argument that it's functional, or even that you prefer it to a button press, but anyone who is trying to argue that no precision is compromised is kidding themselves. At the very least, I wish Nintendo would recognize that some people (MANY people) do not want to play a game where waggle replaces a button, and allow for options. And this is coming from a guy who love DK Jungle Beat BECAUSE of that awesome tactile feeling of hitting the bongos. I'm not opposed to new things, but waggle is mindless and severely flawed.

Now if you wanted to make me aim Diddy's popguns with infrared, I'd be on board.

 

[MarshMellow96]

It's okay guys, if you don't like the way it's going, don't buy it. Simple.

The rest of us meanwhile, will be enjoying DKC.

 

[nincompoop]

It's true, though. When developers use waggle as a "button", an actual button is more efficient. Because when you press the button, the action immediately happens. With waggle, you have to wait for the system to "detect" the motion and then you have to deal with the possibility of the system either not detecting the motion properly or being too sensitive to motion...

And when you press a button, you have to wait for the button to actually be pressed! Which takes about as much time as it does for SMG/NSMB to detect your motion! O NO BUTTEN CONTROLZ R RU1NING GAMING ND WE NEED TELEPATHIC CONTROLZ TO SAV US!

Seriously, someone should get three people in a room together with NSMB Wii and a video camera, then have one person randomly give a verbal signal at which point person #2 jumps and person #3 does a helicopter spin, then we can see how long it takes for each move to start.

 

[MarshMellow96]

Seriously, someone should get three people in a room together with NSMB Wii and a video camera, then have one person randomly give a verbal signal at which point person #2 jumps and person #3 does a helicopter spin, then we can see how long it takes for each move to start.

Shit why stop there? Get Mythbusters on it.

Oh wait, they're trying to get people to watch so they're not talking about redundant arguments.

Zing..

 

[KevinCow]

I do just that at 0:44 in this video we took at E3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPqdPrvcmTs

That's your site? Awesome. You guys easily got the best footage of the game. I was so excited to find a video of someone competent at video games playing it.

generally, my wrist just starts to get sore after a while.

Um. I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong if it tires your wrists in even the slightest.

 

[redbarchetta]

That's your site? Awesome. You guys easily got the best footage of the game. I was so excited to find a video of someone competent at video games playing it.

Aww, thanks =)

And I don't want to whore myself out too much, but we made a pretty cool (well, I think it's pretty cool video for MetaCafe showing some of the game's secrets.

 

[beelzebozo]

the extra height the spin jump gives you in SMG2 is one of the best additions to mario's moveset in years. it's particularly useful and vital when

Spoiler

you're trying to lock down the secret green stars

. and yes, i think shaking the controller to perform that maneuver reduces the number of deaths that would occur if you moved that to a different button and had to move your finger between the two, particularly when you have to jump, spin, wall jump, spin, and so on. that's a lot of moving your finger back and forth. i've had games ask me to do just such precision button presses, and yes, i fuck it up a lot more than i fuck up pressing A to jump and shaking the wii remote to spin.

the spin is pretty much perfect as is.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I literally had more moments in SMG2 where I was like "goddamn it i pressed the button and didn't jump fast enough and died wtf" than i had times where motion control failed. Which isn't that hard, since motion control failed all of 0 times in my entire game.

 

[autobzooty]

Um. I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong if it tires your wrists in even the slightest.

That's kinda what I thought, but Galaxy demands this move a lot from you, so there's not really any getting around it if you play for long periods of time.

the extra height the spin jump gives you in SMG2 is one of the best additions to mario's moveset in years. it's particularly useful and vital when

Spoiler

you're trying to lock down the secret green stars

. and yes, i think shaking the controller to perform that maneuver reduces the number of deaths that would occur if you moved that to a different button and had to move your finger between the two, particularly when you have to jump, spin, wall jump, spin, and so on. that's a lot of moving your finger back and forth. i've had games ask me to do just such precision button presses, and yes, i fuck it up a lot more than i fuck up pressing A to jump and shaking the wii remote to spin.

the spin is pretty much perfect as is.

You could do this in Mario 64 by pressing B to kick mid jump, though it wasn't as extreme as in Galaxy. I'm personally of the mindset that it cheapens the game to be able to correct your misplaced jumps like that, but if it has to be in the game, I don't see why it couldn't have been on the B trigger and that useless star bit shooting button could go somewhere else.

 

[boiled goose]

Shake to spin in Galaxy and NSMBWii is great.

There is a value to motions in this case. You can spin and press buttons 100% independently. This gives you a ton of control over mario. Also the games were designed to use the motion, which is why it feels great. Giving the controller a shake for that extra bit of air time is much much better than simply pressing a button to do the same. It simply feels right.

On the other hand...

Shake to attack in Zelda TP is bad. Shake to attack in Okami is bad. These are tacked on motions to actions that were designed to be played with a button press. Continuous waggling to attack is terrible. and inferior.

Shaking to roll in DK sounds terrible. The game seems to be a straight 2D platformer with a lot of the mechanics and actions of previous DKC games. This fact makes the shake to roll seem like the tacked on kind, as supposed to a game designed to use motion.

I feel that Metroid and DK will be held back by terrible control scheme choices. Metroid should be played with wiimote+nunchuck. (no reason for it not to be an option) movement in 3D woudl be better, switching to first person would be faster (and you could retain movement, etc etc)

 

[boiled goose]

That's kinda what I thought, but Galaxy demands this move a lot from you, so there's not really any getting around it if you play for long periods of time.



You could do this in Mario 64 by pressing B to kick mid jump, though it wasn't as extreme as in Galaxy. I'm personally of the mindset that it cheapens the game to be able to correct your misplaced jumps like that, but if it has to be in the game, I don't see why it couldn't have been on the B trigger and that useless star bit shooting button could go somewhere else.

it tires your wrist? are you fucking kidding me? what are you 95 and arthritic?

flip swap and flip out galaxy disagree. also, having the extra bit of air time simply makes me take bigger risks and makes going through the awesome levels that much more awesome. The SMG spin improves the game immensely.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I will always laugh at and be in awe of those that want button presses for everything or options for that.

Nintendo has a new controller that defines the sysytem and whether they use it in really interesting ways or less than interesting ways, they'd be stupid to allow you to play with the same ol control system of yesteryear in every game because that's not progress and they want you to get to know the virtues of the new controller and it has a lot whether subtle or groundbreaking.

I would rather shake the controller than press buttons, something about it feels more fun to me and this talk about lag affecting gameplay is complete nonsense, never had a problem with it at all.

The only time actually I ever did not prefer and like the remote for games is that one boss in New Super Mario Brothers where you tilt it to run into him or something. I forget, it wasn't ideal.

 

[Starchasing]

Shake to spin in Galaxy and NSMBWii is great.

There is a value to motions in this case. You can spin and press buttons 100% independently. This gives you a ton of control over mario. Also the games were designed to use the motion, which is why it feels great. Giving the controller a shake for that extra bit of air time is much much better than simply pressing a button to do the same. It simply feels right.

On the other hand...

Shake to attack in Zelda TP is bad. Shake to attack in Okami is bad. These are tacked on motions to actions that were designed to be played with a button press. Continuous waggling to attack is terrible. and inferior.

Shaking to roll in DK sounds terrible. The game seems to be a straight 2D platformer with a lot of the mechanics and actions of previous DKC games. This fact makes the shake to roll seem like the tacked on kind, as supposed to a game designed to use motion.

I feel that Metroid and DK will be held back by terrible control scheme choices. Metroid should be played with wiimote+nunchuck. (no reason for it not to be an option) movement in 3D woudl be better, switching to first person would be faster (and you could retain movement, etc etc)

i agrww with TP and Okami...after all those were GC and PS2 game

after playing galaxy 2 i feel optimistic about DK and Metroid

 

[soldat7]

You can keep repeating that I'm wrong till the cows come home, but waggle is inherently less efficient than a button press.

Says you. I don't think we can easily quantify this.

 

[autobzooty]

it tires your wrist? are you fucking kidding me? what are you 95 and arthritic?

flip swap and flip out galaxy disagree. also, having the extra bit of air time simply makes me take bigger risks and makes going through the awesome levels that much more awesome. The SMG spin improves the game immensely.

awesome, 2 out of like 50 galaxies have a trick that makes you not wanna use the spin. they were pretty great for the 3 minutes total that I played them.

and if i WAS 95 and arthritic, you'd probably be feeling like a big ass right now. what a jerk.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

and if i WAS 95 and arthritic, you'd probably be feeling like a big ass right now. what a jerk.

You can't really blame him for that, you did claim to get tired from Mario Galaxy. :lol

 

[autobzooty]

You can't really blame him for that, you did claim to get tired from Mario Galaxy. :lol

it's not like i'm out of breath and panting, ffs. but after a while of shaking that controller, i eventually just want to stop. it is a highly negative experience for me.

can't wait till i overclock my PC and run dolphin so i can play the splendor of galaxy unmarred by poorly implemented motion controls. maybe i'll do the same for Donkey Kong.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

it's not like i'm out of breath and panting, ffs. but after a while of shaking that controller, i eventually just want to stop. it is a highly negative experience for me.

can't wait till i overclock my PC and run dolphin so i can play the splendor of galaxy unmarred by poorly implemented motion controls. maybe i'll do the same for Donkey Kong.

loooooooooooooool

 

[autobzooty]

loooooooooooooool

?

 

[beelzebozo]

but won't sitting in that hard computer chair aggravate your hemorrhoids? or that awful computer screen might hurt your glaucoma

 

[Chinner]

it's not like i'm out of breath and panting, ffs. but after a while of shaking that controller, i eventually just want to stop. it is a highly negative experience for me.

can't wait till i overclock my PC and run dolphin so i can play the splendor of galaxy unmarred by poorly implemented motion controls. maybe i'll do the same for Donkey Kong.

you're really out of shape dude.

 

[ILikeFeet]

it's not like i'm out of breath and panting, ffs. but after a while of shaking that controller, i eventually just want to stop. it is a highly negative experience for me.

can't wait till i overclock my PC and run dolphin so i can play the splendor of galaxy unmarred by poorly implemented motion controls. maybe i'll do the same for Donkey Kong.

jeebus you really get tired from playing SMG? I think it's time you put the games down and get on a treadmill :lol

 

[autobzooty]

but won't sitting in that hard computer chair aggravate your hemorrhoids? or that awful computer screen might hurt your glaucoma

comfy couch, hurr durr :lol

saying that my wrist gets "tired" or "sore" is probably a poor choice of words on my part. it's not like i'm in actual physical pain. but after a while of playing galaxy, i get to the point where i just don't wanna waggle anymore. my tolerance for waggle is less than my desire to play the game, that's all. i personally just find it to be very unpleasant, and i'm not sure why i'm being attacked for that.

 

[beelzebozo]

comfy couch, hurr durr :lol

saying that my wrist gets "tired" or "sore" is probably a poor choice of words on my part. it's not like i'm in actual physical pain. but after a while of playing galaxy, i get to the point where i just don't wanna waggle anymore. my tolerance for waggle is less than my desire to play the game, that's all. i personally just find it to be very unpleasant, and i'm not sure why i'm being attacked for that.

for the same reason i would look funny at someone if they said their finger got sore pressing "a" playing mario galaxy.

 

[Odrion]

Waggling to spin DOES suck when swimming in Galaxy as you have to spin constantly in order to get good speed.

Then you end up looking like you're whacking two guys off. Not that I'd complain, so long as they're good looking, but still.

does their occupation matter?

 

[autobzooty]

for the same reason i would look funny at someone if they said their finger got sore pressing "a" playing mario galaxy.

did you read the post you quoted?

ugh nevermind. this is a ridiculous conversation. :lol

I'd like to see autobooty after a long session of Marvel vs Capcom 2.

i actually own an arcade stick and play SSF4 regularly. i still prefer the portability and convenience of a pad over a stick, but i dont take the same issues with arcade sticks as i do with waggle.

i should also probably note that i'm a big fan of motion control, just not waggle. i really loved all the bonus stages like the bird and the ball rolling from galaxy, but it's the mindless shaking that i really don't care for.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

comfy couch, hurr durr :lol

saying that my wrist gets "tired" or "sore" is probably a poor choice of words on my part. it's not like i'm in actual physical pain. but after a while of playing galaxy, i get to the point where i just don't wanna waggle anymore. my tolerance for waggle is less than my desire to play the game, that's all. i personally just find it to be very unpleasant, and i'm not sure why i'm being attacked for that.

You've reached the point of no return. Now you gotta post pics of yourself or everyone is going to assume you're an out of shape fatass.

If you can't endure Mario Galaxy then WiiFit would probably give you a heart attack.

 

[beelzebozo]

comfy couch, hurr durr :lol

saying that my thumb gets "tired" or "sore" is probably a poor choice of words on my part. it's not like i'm in actual physical pain. but after a while of playing galaxy, i get to the point where i just don't wanna press "a" anymore. my tolerance for pressing "a" is less than my desire to play the game, that's all. i personally just find it to be very unpleasant, and i'm not sure why i'm being attacked for that.

did you read the post you quoted?

ugh nevermind. this is a ridiculous conversation. :lol

here you go, i'll make it more ridiculous

 

[ILikeFeet]

did you read the post you quoted?

ugh nevermind. this is a ridiculous conversation. :lol

you're right. hyperbole in this thread got old quick.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

There have been times my wrist has actually hurt somewhat during Galaxy 2, etc... but at the same time, the other day it hurt when playing a Gamecube game using my Wavebird.

Not enough to stop me from playing but enough to notice it but games are too fun to be halted by moderate to severe pain!!!!

 

[AceBandage]

There have been times my wrist has actually hurt somewhat during Galaxy 2, etc... but at the same time, the other day it hurt when playing a Gamecube game using my Wavebird.

Not enough to stop me from playing but enough to notice it but games are too fun to be halted by moderate to severe pain!!!!

The early onset of Carpal Tunnel.
You gonna die.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The early onset of Carpal Tunnel.
You gonna die.

It's alright!!!!

 

[Haunted]

:lol


The spin in Super Mario Galaxy owns, haters have to resort to ridiculous justifications for their hate and are, thusly, owned.

Koizumi :bow
EAD Tokyo :bow