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Donkey Kong Country Returns announced [N-CONF]

Freezie KO said:
I love how, even as a publisher, Nintendo pushes their game development philosophies onto their second parties and third-party partnerships.
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Retro are not second party.
 
Freezie KO said:
Oh. Then I love how Nintendo assimilates them like some blob-like alien lifeforce...?
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Correct ;).

It's a common mistake a lot of people make. Unlike Nintendo's partnerships with Rare and Silicon Knights, Retro Studios is 100% wholey owned by Nintendo. They're as much "Nintendo" as EAD, NST, and Intelligent Systems.
 
RawkHawk2010 said:
Just because the Kremlings appeared in all three games doesn't make them a staple. In some instances, I forgot they were even in DKC3.
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Uh, I'm pretty sure it does. And besides the DKC games, they've also appeared in every other Rare-developed DK game. Even Diddy Kong Racing, in which Diddy Kong himself was the only other tie to the DK series.

When the game is called "Donkey Kong Country Returns", you can't ditch the Kremlings, throw a bunch of Jungle Beat-esque enemies in there, and claim you're staying faithful to the source material. No amount of jungles, minecart levels, remixed music, etc, will change that. Hence why I think DKCR suffers from Sonic 4 syndrome.
 
Ben2749 said:
Uh, I'm pretty sure it does. And besides the DKC games, they've also appeared in every other Rare-developed DK game. Even Diddy Kong Racing, in which Diddy Kong himself was the only other tie to the DK series.

When the game is called "Donkey Kong Country Returns", you can't ditch the Kremlings, throw a bunch of Jungle Beat-esque enemies in there, and claim you're staying faithful to the source material. No amount of jungles, minecart levels, remixed music, etc, will change that. Hence why I think DKCR suffers from Sonic 4 syndrome.
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Whoa whoa whoa. How the fuck is taking elements from another WELL RECEIVED ENTRY IN A SERIES "Sonic 4 syndrome"?
 
Gravijah said:
Whoa whoa whoa. How the fuck is taking elements from another WELL RECEIVED ENTRY IN A SERIES "Sonic 4 syndrome"?
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While in the big scheme of things I don't really care, the way the Kremlins and such were set up throughout the games gave them so much personality. You could tell there was a hierachy in place, the enemies were so amazing.

Rather than generic bird 5 or something similar.

What's the reason? Do Rare own them or something? Also, would that mean Zingers would be out? (One of my most feared enemies in games)
 
ah man, i need to go find some old usenet vg chats. i need to see what the reaction was like when it was announced that you wouldn't be playing as DK in DKC2 :lol
 
Gravijah said:
Whoa whoa whoa. How the fuck is taking elements from another WELL RECEIVED ENTRY IN A SERIES "Sonic 4 syndrome"?
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Well, this is Donkey Kong Country Returns, not Jungle Beat 2. It's just an interesting observation that this is being hailed as another 'Country' game, yet is missing a pretty integral part of that series. Same goes for the animal companions; Rambi is on the cover, so that's a glimmer of hope, but we're yet to see any footage of the animal buddies or how they work. DKC wasn't just gorilla platforming and bananas.

Nemesis556 said:
What's the reason? Do Rare own them or something? Also, would that mean Zingers would be out? (One of my most feared enemies in games)
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Rare dont own them. Some Kremlins appeared in Barrel Blast. I suspect either Retro didn't want to use them and instead wanted to start fresh, or Nintendo stepped in and told them to scrap them.
 
I agree that the Kremlins were part of the DKC series. They were even in Mario Power Tennis representing the Donkey Kong court. That said, there's enough familiar motifs that I'm not about to argue that this game isn't a DKC game. You see it being played, and it looks like a DKC game.

So please, do not compare this to Sonic. Sonic... well... his memory will live on.
 
EatChildren said:
Rambi is on the cover, so that's a glimmer of hope, but we're yet to see any footage of the animal buddies or how they work. DKC wasn't just gorilla platforming and bananas.
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Retro/Tanabe said:
"[The demo] is just the tip of the iceberg. There were a half-dozen things that we were asking Mr. Tanabe, "Can we show this? Can we show this?" (laughs)"

"Additionally, I felt like as this is sort of the debut of the game, keeping it pared down to elements that people would remember fondly and things that were representative of the series itself. So, a jungle stage. The mine carts that are so iconic for the series. Just a nice beach front to sort of set the scene. And then a boss fight, to show people what to expect and to remind them of what's come in the series before. But rest assured, there is much more. "
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DKCR is called "Returns" because it's a return to that gameplay style, as opposed to the combo-focused DKJB. It doesn't mean it needs to have every single element from said game. The Kremlings didn't add anything that the Tikis can't replicate if they are applied correctly, and I think allowing Retro a bit of freedom with that enemy design was the right choice and allows them to call something their very own within the series...
 
Akai said:
DKCR is called "Returns" because it's a return to that gameplay style, as opposed to the combo-focused DKJB. It doesn't mean it needs to have every single element from said game. The Kremlings didn't add anything that the Tikis can't replicate if they are applied correctly, and I think allowing Retro a bit of freedom with that enemy design was the right choice and allows them to call something their very own within the series...
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In my opinion, it's comparable to New Super Mario Bros. had Nintendo decided to ditch Bowser, Koopas, Goombas, Cheep-Cheeps, Bloopers, Piranha Plants, etc.

Enemies are almost as iconic as the heroes.
 
Comparing DKCR to Sonic 4 should be an offense.

Ben2749 said:
In my opinion, it's comparable to New Super Mario Bros. had Nintendo decided to ditch Bowser, Koopas, Goombas, Cheep-Cheeps, Bloopers, Piranha Plants, etc.

Enemies are almost as iconic as the heroes.
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You are implying this would cause outrage if Nintendo did do that with NSMBWii.
 
Ben2749 said:
In my opinion, it's comparable to New Super Mario Bros. had Nintendo decided to ditch Bowser, Koopas, Goombas, Cheep-Cheeps, Bloopers, Piranha Plants, etc.

Enemies are almost as iconic as the heroes.
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i don't think the enemies are even close to being as iconic as the heroes
 
Talladega Knight said:
i don't think the enemies are even close to being as iconic as the heroes
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Yeah. Nintendo liberally introduces new enemies to replace old ones in new games, and no one complains.

I haven't seen anyone complain about the Octoombas or Fizzlits.
 
Ben2749 said:
In my opinion, it's comparable to New Super Mario Bros. had Nintendo decided to ditch Bowser, Koopas, Goombas, Cheep-Cheeps, Bloopers, Piranha Plants, etc.

Enemies are almost as iconic as the heroes.
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There are levels in Super Mario World without then ... and they are awesome
 
Willy105 said:
Comparing DKCR to Sonic 4 should be an offense.



You are implying this would cause outrage if Nintendo did do that with NSMBWii.
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I meant to specify NSMBDS, as that was a big deal because it was the first 2D Mario platformer in years. As such, it wouldn't have went down well with a lot of people had all the iconic enemies been replaced.

I wouldn't mind a Donkey Kong Country without Kremlings too much if it hadn't been 14 years since the last time we had one with them.
 
Ben2749 said:
I meant to specify NSMBDS, as that was a big deal because it was the first 2D Mario platformer in years. As such, it wouldn't have went down well with a lot of people had all the iconic enemies been replaced.
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I'm sure it would have been the same. Mario fans aren't as worried with characters returning as Sonic fans. Mario fans want quality, Sonic fans want it to be like the old games.
 
Too bad Geist wasn't polished.

Can't wait for this game, just loved DKC that i descovered every secret in that game. that game was soo good.
 
Thunder Monkey said:
The Kremlings were terrible designs of the 90's from a developer that did almost nothing but shitty character designs.

They won't be missed.
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Seriously. You put a Goomba in front of anyone and they'll know it instantly. You show them a dumb peg leg alligator with a patch on and they'll have no idea what game it's from.

I can't wait for some new media. They really should be blowing it out soon.
 
Ben2749 said:
In my opinion, it's comparable to New Super Mario Bros. had Nintendo decided to ditch Bowser, Koopas, Goombas, Cheep-Cheeps, Bloopers, Piranha Plants, etc.
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It's really not comparable at all and that is a silly thing to say IMO. Bowser and the Mario villians have been around since 1985 and pretty much every Nintendo related game has featured those characters for 25 years now.

DKC villians were in what, 4 main games (and 3 handheld titles) and first introduced in 1994? All these villians were created by a company that Nintendo no longer has an exclusive relationship with. Plus, there hasn't been a Kong platformer since 1999. And there HAVE been Kong games since that haven't featured Kremlins.

I'm not saying you are wrong for wanting them. They are fun characters and Rare had a certain creativity and charm in creating them. Retro feels more of a company that nails the technical side of the games graphically and mechanically, but maybe a little weak when it comes to characterization and thus maybe we should be worried with their Tiki villians. GUESS WE'LL SEE.
 
Willy105 said:
Yeah. Nintendo liberally introduces new enemies to replace old ones in new games, and no one complains.

I haven't seen anyone complain about the Octoombas or Fizzlits.
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That's because the game had plenty of other returning enemies (including the return of the Boomerang Brothers!)--it's all about balance, imo. It's one of the (many) reasons Sunshine rubbed me the wrong way--there was not a single enemy (Bowser aside) that returned from previous Mario games. The closest we got were weird variants on Boos and Monty Mole, IIRC.

Unfortunately, it looks like DKCR isn't striking the right balance...or any balance, with the returning enemies to new enemies ratio. Is it a deal-breaker? Not at all. But I do wish Kremlings (and/or other older enemies) were in the game in some capacity.
 
redbarchetta said:
That's because the game had plenty of other returning enemies (including the return of the Boomerang Brothers!)--it's all about balance, imo. It's one of the (many) reasons Sunshine rubbed me the wrong way--there was not a single enemy (Bowser aside) that returned from previous Mario games. The closest we got were weird variants on Boos and Monty Mole, IIRC.

Unfortunately, it looks like DKCR isn't striking the right balance...or any balance, with the returning enemies to new enemies ratio. Is it a deal-breaker? Not at all. But I do wish Kremlings (and/or other older enemies) were in the game in some capacity.
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Well, it never bothered me on Sunshine. Loved the Piantas.
 
Platy said:
There are levels in Super Mario World without then ... and they are awesome
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Yes, and we're not talking about levels--we're talking about the game as a whole. Like I said in my previous post, it's about balance.

Though if they really wanted an all new cast, I think it could have been awesome to have Kremlings slowly being overtaken by the Tikis after the first few levels before replacing them outright--that would have been a neat, contextually fitting twist that I think would have been a decent compromise.
 
redbarchetta said:
Joke post?
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Why didn't you?

piantas.jpg


They were totally neat.
 
Willy105 said:
I'm sure it would have been the same. Mario fans aren't as worried with characters returning as Sonic fans. Mario fans want quality, Sonic fans want it to be like the old games.
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Depends on what you call a Sonic fan. There definitely are Sonic fans like me, who loved the classic games but have no problem woth the newer even more speed-oriented gameplay (that doesn't mean, 'we' love everthing Sonic, I for example hate on Sonic the Hedgehog, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic & the Black Knight all the time, but I would never say a good Sonic game has to be exactly like Sonic 1-3).
 
I'm a huge DKC fan and don't really care about the kremlings one way or another

If they got rid of bonus barrels, I'd raise hell. But badly designed enemies? Eh, as long as the Tiki guys are not markedly worse, can't see it as a bad thing.
 
I dont really think having new enemies is such a big negative. What I'm worried about is that retro made the first version of dkcr really fast paced but nintendo made them slow it down. Maybe someone can dig up that quote.
 
Willy105 said:
Yeah. Nintendo liberally introduces new enemies to replace old ones in new games, and no one complains.

I haven't seen anyone complain about the Octoombas or Fizzlits.
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The what?
 
apana said:
What I'm worried about is that retro made the first version of dkcr really fast paced but nintendo made them slow it down. Maybe someone can dig up that quote.
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Perhaps that explains the lack of a run-button =/
 
I wonder how much Diddy having the rocket, no run button, and having hearts allowing you to be hit multiple times will change the gameplay?

Wasn't someone saying earlier that Retro is aiming to make the difficulty very high?
 
Futureman said:
I wonder how much Diddy having the rocket, no run button, and having hearts allowing you to be hit multiple times will change the gameplay?
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Well, I look at the two hearts as actually being true to the original DKC, when playing co-op (which is clearly how it's designed to be played). In the original, you could basically take two hits before dying, and that's still the case, but now it's true for each player.
 
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