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Donkey Kong Country Returns announced [N-CONF]

hyduK said:
Based on what? Metroid Prime was fucking fantastic, probably my favorite game of last gen. But MP2 wasn't anything special, and 3 was fairly mediocre throughout.

Also, this game needs some more snow/factory levels. Thanks.
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So wrong. Echoes was Retro at their finest. They had the most creative control and license to do what they wanted with that game and it showed.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
So wrong. Echoes was Retro at their finest. They had the most creative control and license to do what they wanted with that game and it showed.
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True...only in a less than stellar way. And I say that as one who rather enjoyed Echoes, but Prime 1 it certainly is not. Being unrestrained isn't always a good thing.
 
I'm replaying Echoes right now and it hasn't changed my mind that it is the weakest link in the Prime triology. The powerups are subpar for the majority of the game, ammo was a bad idea, and the worlds just aren't as interesting as in Prime (or, from what I remember, Prime 3). Heck, the first two worlds are both basically different shades of brown & black. :lol
 
redbarchetta said:
True...only in a less than stellar way. And I say that as one who rather enjoyed Echoes, but Prime 1 it certainly is not. Being unrestrained isn't always a good thing.
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It may have not been as cohesive as the first Prime, but on closer inspection you can really see just how genius Retro are when they aren't held back. Superior art design. Superior puzzles. Superior level design. Superior boss fights. Superior atmosphere.

Echoes doesn't conform to the basics required for mainstream acceptance, which hurt its sales and it's general reception, but those who can tolerate the way in which it challenges the player to put in that little bit more effort will find themselves truly rewarded. As far as design and creavity goes, it's heads and shoulders above Prime. It's truly genius.
 
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_Alkaline_ said:
It may have not been as cohesive as the first Prime, but on closer inspection you can really see just how genius Retro are when they aren't held back. Superior art design. Superior puzzles. Superior level design. Superior boss fights. Superior atmosphere.
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I disagree with all of that, but still feel it's a great game.


_Alkaline_ said:
Echoes doesn't conform to the basics required for mainstream acceptance, which hurt its sales and it's general reception, but those who can tolerate the way in which it challenges the player to put in that little bit more effort will find themselves truly rewarded. As far as design and creavity goes, it's heads and shoulders above Prime. It's truly genius.
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Metroid Prime didn't conform to the basics for mainstream acceptance either. And even assuming it had, that doesn't automatically mean its a lesser product. And I did tolerate the game, hence why I like it, but again, I totally disagree that it's "heads and shoulders above Prime."
 
I thought the Prime games just got better as they went along.

Echoes is very difficult, and it's level design is uneven, with some stinkers in there, but the high points of that game are so good. It easily has the best boss battles in the series, and as a big fan of morph ball puzzles, it stands as the leader in that department for me as well.

The Ing are my favorite Metroid enemies. Their design and behavior really made them stand out as a truly alien and unknowable enemy. Sort of like fighting one of Lovecraft's alien species, but with the benefit of being a super powered and skilled space mercenary, and not an academic that faints at the first sign of danger. :)
 
redbarchetta said:
I disagree with all of that, but still feel it's a great game.
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That's cool.

But you disagree that the puzzles and boss fights aren't better? Really?


redbarchetta said:
Metroid Prime didn't conform to the basics for mainstream acceptance either. And even assuming it had, that doesn't automatically mean its a lesser product. And I did tolerate the game, hence why I like it, but again, I totally disagree that it's "heads and shoulders above Prime."
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Metroid Prime, through the general direction of Nintendo, was established to translate the mechanics and storytelling approach of Super into 3D (with a few new additions and changes). The game took a ton of risks but it still adhered to a certain formula - a wise choice given the lack of direction early in the project.

Echoes didn't cater to anything or anyone except those who enjoyed the more complex moments of the original. It was harder, more frustrating, less forgiving and much more complex. Bosses had up to 4 different stages. Some morph ball puzzles took several minutes to complete. The Dark World was relentlessly oppressive - at no stage until near the end was it not overwhelming. It didn't have the generic environment themes of the first Prime, instead branching out into much more creative and alien design. And I could go on.

I love the original Prime, but Echoes really represents the true creativity of Retro. They went all out with that game and it shows. It may not have the supreme consistency of Prime but Echoes at its peak is so much deeper and intricate an experience than the first.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
That's cool.

But you disagree that the puzzles and boss fights aren't better? Really?
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Yes, really. Some puzzles and/or bosses may have been as good as those in Prime, but as a whole, I didn't find them to be better.

_Alkaline_ said:
Metroid Prime, through the general direction of Nintendo, was established to translate the mechanics and storytelling approach of Super into 3D (with a few new additions and changes). The game took a ton of risks but it still adhered to a certain formula - a wise choice given the lack of direction early in the project.
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But Echoes still adhered to a similar formula, just with a few twists thrown in. Metroid Prime took larger risks relative to Super Metroid than Echoes did compared to its predecessor.

With that said, no one can accuse Echoes of being a carbon copy and I do applaud Retro for taking some risks, even if they resulted in an experience not quite as satisfying as the one I had with Prime.

_Alkaline_ said:
I love the original Prime, but Echoes really represents the true creativity of Retro. They went all out with that game and it shows. It may not have the supreme consistency of Prime but Echoes at its peak is so much deeper and intricate an experience than the first
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I'm not sure how you're defining "deeper" in this context. I'll grant it's more complicated, cumbersome, and clunky--if that's "deeper," then I agree. I just don't think it's a positive.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I love the original Prime, but Echoes really represents the true creativity of Retro. They went all out with that game and it shows. It may not have the supreme consistency of Prime but Echoes at its peak is so much deeper and intricate an experience than the first.
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Preach on brother! Prime 1 is probably still my favourite over all, but echoes has so much originality and creativity. The visual design of the entire world is just so cohesive. Plus, as you said, its highlights (boss fights, morphball puzzles) are some of the best parts of the whole trilogy.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I love the original Prime, but Echoes really represents the true creativity of Retro. They went all out with that game and it shows. It may not have the supreme consistency of Prime but Echoes at its peak is so much deeper and intricate an experience than the first.
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You're actually not alone on this. I've beaten Echoes twice, once on the GameCube and again on the Wii, and both times were after having just completed the first Prime. Both times I felt that Echoes was the better game after all was said and done. I think the first game has parts that exceed some parts of Echoes, but the end-game of Echoes just leaves me immensely satisfied, like I accomplished something. Prime is a great game, but I think Echoes is ridiculously underrated.
 
I used to think the original Prime was superior too, but playing them side-by-side just opened my eyes as to how much more complex - and subsequently satisfying - Echoes is.

The puzzles really are much better. Not that they were bad in Prime, they weren't, but Echoes just takes the environmental design to a whole new level. The morph ball puzzles in particular make Prime's appear simple (and unfortunately, the same goes for Corruption which took a big step back in this regard).

And then there's the art design. Prime seriously feels generic compared to the alien world Retro created in Aether. Every single room has more detail than an entire level in most games. Prime had more amazing design such as the Chozo Ruins and the ice ruins of Phendrana, but very rarely did it feel like an alien world - it basically felt like someone created another Earth in space. Only in the Ruins or the Impact Crater did it truly foreign and oppressive. Even Echoes' lesser environments such as the Agon Wastes have little touches the elevate it - the sandfalls, the blueroot trues, the luminoth sketchings, etc.

And I could go on and on. I'm not saying every element of Echoes is superior but I do think it's the (slightly) better game because its just that much more complex and clever. There's more reward for progress here because each and every new room holds puzzles that are above those in Prime - particularly in the second half of the way - puzzles that are more challenging, more fun and more satisfying.

Echoes has its frustrating moments - more-so than Prime - but when it hits the spot it is the better game.

By the way I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. Up until quite recently I thought Prime was the better game! But playing one after the other just opened my eyes to how intricate Echoes really is. And obviously all of the above is my opinion and not 'fact' or anything of the sort.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I used to think the original Prime was superior too, but playing them side-by-side just opened my eyes as to how much more complex - and subsequently satisfying - Echoes is.

The puzzles really are much better. Not that they were bad in Prime, they weren't, but Echoes just takes the environmental design to a whole new level. The morph ball puzzles in particular make Prime's appear simple (and unfortunately, the same goes for Corruption which took a big step back in this regard).

And then there's the art design. Prime seriously feels generic compared to the alien world Retro created in Aether. Every single room has more detail than an entire level in most games. Prime had more amazing design such as the Chozo Ruins and the ice ruins of Phendrana, but very rarely did it feel like an alien world - it basically felt like someone created another Earth in space. Only in the Ruins or the Impact Crater did it truly foreign and oppressive. Even Echoes' lesser environments such as the Agon Wastes have little touches the elevate it - the sandfalls, the blueroot trues, the luminoth sketchings, etc.

And I could go on and on. I'm not saying every element of Echoes is superior but I do think it's the (slightly) better game because its just that much more complex and clever. There's more reward for progress here because each and every new room holds puzzles that are above those in Prime - particularly in the second half of the way - puzzles that are more challenging, more fun and more satisfying.

Echoes has its frustrating moments - more-so than Prime - but when it hits the spot it is the better game.

By the way I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. Up until quite recently I thought Prime was the better game! But playing one after the other just opened my eyes to how intricate Echoes really is. And obviously all of the above is my opinion and not 'fact' or anything of the sort.
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I also played them side-by-side. I replayed Metroid Prime (GCN) when the Trilogy was released (it inspired me), then MP2 as soon as I was finished.

Regarding environments: It's true Prime uses more conventional themes, sure. However, I found those themes more interesting to traverse and more beautiful to explore. I'm not at all fond of the Dark World's aesthetic, finding it to be a murky bore (relatively), and I didn't find the the more mechanical-focused world of Echoes to be nearly as intriguing as the more organic structures of Prime.

I'll grant MP2 had a more alien feel, but again, I don't view that as a positive. Metroid Prime struck the perfect balance between familiarity and otherworldly, imo.

As for puzzles, I didn't find them to be more challenging, fun, nor satisfying, so I didn't quite feel the extra "reward."

I'm glad you're not trying to change my mind, because it's not going to happen =) I just want you to know that I experienced the games in the same way you did and still consider the first to be the better of the two. But again, I really liked the game, more so than I expected to, but when compared to the first, I simply didn't find it as enjoyable.
 
I love Echoes because it's the only post-Super game in the series that doesn't either have someone ordering you around (Fusion, Corruption, Other M) or take place on Zebes or a Zebes-alike (Zero Mission and Prime; come on, Tallon IV is pretty much just Zebes in 3D).

Instead we get a new planet with some new environments and some new ruins to explore that actually didn't belong to the Chozo, but the Luminoth, who have way cooler architecture. We get some new enemies in the Ing instead of the Space Pirates being the main enemies yet again. It also gave us two really cool new suits for Samus that actually aren't palette swaps. I just like how it does its own thing without feeling the need to stick to what Super did.



...Wait, isn't this thread supposed to be about Donkey Kong?
 
In Echoes, the sanctuary fortress area is so freaking brilliant. I wish the entire game had just been based around that. I'm sure we are going to get some insanely creative levels in dkcr towards the end.
 
All this talk about Prime 1 and 2... What About 3? I played and loved the original Prime, but haven't touched 2 or 3. I just bought a Wii and really want to try out a great Wii game with motion controls, so I think I'll go straight to 3 and skip 2 for now.
 
Futureman said:
All this talk about Prime 1 and 2... What About 3? I played and loved the original Prime, but haven't touched 2 or 3. I just bought a Wii and really want to try out a great Wii game with motion controls, so I think I'll go straight to 3 and skip 2 for now.
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It's the weakest for me, but it's definately a solid title. Be sure to set up the controls in Advanced though!
 
Boney said:
It's the weakest for me, but it's definately a solid title. Be sure to set up the controls in Advanced though!
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Advanced really annoyed me, and resulted in less precision (imo) since you were basically always turning, but then had to center the cross-hair whenever you wanted to actually shoot an enemy. I also hated the slow drift you would have for being even off-center by the smallest amount.
 
Futureman said:
All this talk about Prime 1 and 2... What About 3? I played and loved the original Prime, but haven't touched 2 or 3. I just bought a Wii and really want to try out a great Wii game with motion controls, so I think I'll go straight to 3 and skip 2 for now.
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I wouldn't skip 2. 2 is fantastic.
 
Futureman said:
Is Metroid Prime Trilogy still sold or will I have to find it used?
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No longer printed in the US or Australia. I think its still printed in Europe though. You can find it in some stores in the US, if you're lucky. I know some people here still manage to find them here and there.
 
KevinCow said:
I love Echoes because it's the only post-Super game in the series that doesn't either have someone ordering you around (Fusion, Corruption, Other M) or take place on Zebes or a Zebes-alike (Zero Mission and Prime; come on, Tallon IV is pretty much just Zebes in 3D).

Instead we get a new planet with some new environments and some new ruins to explore that actually didn't belong to the Chozo, but the Luminoth, who have way cooler architecture. We get some new enemies in the Ing instead of the Space Pirates being the main enemies yet again. It also gave us two really cool new suits for Samus that actually aren't palette swaps. I just like how it does its own thing without feeling the need to stick to what Super did.



...Wait, isn't this thread supposed to be about Donkey Kong?
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Just wait until Retro announces their launch game for Wii2

Donkey Prime:Metroid Country
 
Gravijah said:
a life bar? :|
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It seems odd at first, but it actually makes it true to the 'two hit' rule in the original DKCs, when playing co-op at least. The only difference is you don't switch characters after taking a hit.
 
Man I played it at PAX.

And I wanted it to be good so bad.

If for no other reason than to tell A GUY I KNOW that he was full of it.

But it was just not fun. Clunky, slow, etc. Just not fun.

maybe it was the environment (it was the only video game i played because frankly i don't care to wait in line to play a demo that is STUPID (the panels and tabletop rooms were much more appealing))

Who knows.
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
Errrr, can we get back to talking about Donkey Kong now?

Watch this and then tell me just how amazing it looks! :D
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The animations in this game are freaking beautiful.
 
Twig said:
Man I played it at PAX.

And I wanted it to be good so bad.

If for no other reason than to tell A GUY I KNOW that he was full of it.

But it was just not fun. Clunky, slow, etc. Just not fun.

maybe it was the environment (it was the only video game i played because frankly i don't care to wait in line to play a demo that is STUPID (the panels and tabletop rooms were much more appealing))

Who knows.
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Did you tell that to someone there and he told you something like "we're still working on it"?

And which control scheme?
 
I watched that video. I just assumed it would play like the original, so I haven't been following with the gameplay news. Can anyone clear up some questions about the single-player mode?

Do you ever play as Diddy? Diddy gains two extra hearts, so how does this work? Two hits and you lose Diddy and then two more and you lose a life? Do you get four hits?

Is there any feedback on Diddy as a FLUDD jetpack? This part looks pretty bad actually. It could really take away from the fun, speedy, challenging platforming of the originals. Maybe Diddy barrels are limited to certain levels?
 
Freezie KO said:
I watched that video. I just assumed it would play like the original, so I haven't been following with the gameplay news. Can anyone clear up some questions about the single-player mode?
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I'm not sure if anyone has played single-player...I know when I played it both at E3 (inside Nintendo's meeting room) and at PAX, there was always someone playing with me--if not a fellow attendee, then a Nintendo employee.
 
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