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Don't look now, but Sony has 4 skus in Steam's top 10

Sony is quickly becoming one of the more pre-eminent PC publishers. In the United States they have 4 games ranked in the top 10 and 4 in the top 15 globally.

They have 4 of the top 10 current best sellers.
  • Helldivers 2 (1st/1st)
  • Destiny 2 (5th/9th)
  • Ghost of Tsushima Directors Cut (pre-order) (7th/11th)
  • Helldivers 2 - Super Citizen Edition (8th/15th)
Quite a good performance considering the narrative from many that they should give up PC support or that there isn't demand for their games on PC.

It'll be interesting to see how Horizon performs, as well as the inevitable Last of Us Part 2.
 
Gran Turismo 7 is going to sell gangbusters if they do end up porting it too.
Imagine 4K 120fps with ray tracing during races.

I could imagine that they would have this ready for a PS5 Pro patch as well. Maybe not the 4K120 w/RTX but 4K60 w/RTX sounds pretty good.
 
Sony is quickly becoming one of the more pre-eminent PC publishers. In the United States they have 4 games ranked in the top 10 and 4 in the top 15 globally.

They have 4 of the top 10 current best sellers.
  • Helldivers 2 (1st/1st)
  • Destiny 2 (5th/9th)
  • Ghost of Tsushima Directors Cut (pre-order) (7th/11th)
  • Helldivers 2 - Super Citizen Edition (8th/15th)
Quite a good performance considering the narrative from many that they should give up PC support or that there isn't demand for their games on PC.

It'll be interesting to see how Horizon performs, as well as the inevitable Last of Us Part 2.
Of the ones currently released on Steam by Sony:

yelling the lord of the rings GIF


Helldivers 2 is the same game regardless of DLC packaging, Destiny 2 is pre-Sony, and Ghost of Tsushima is not even out yet (many may refund).
 
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jaydogg691

Member
Sad that console fanboyism is infiltrating the PC space. 2 are the same game and Destiny is a reach to put on there.

These PC offerings are the reason why I still haven’t bought a PS5, cross platform releases and ports. At this point, just like Ratchet and Returnal, I can wait for these exclusive to come to PC. Just hope that performance is intact to justify a release day purchase or just wait for a sale, how I do a majority of my PC gaming purchases.
 

Fabieter

Member
The point isn't it wont sell. It will even do better when they do day and date. Its argued that it will take away from their main business which will hurt their bottom line.
 
Of the ones currently released on Steam by Sony:

yelling the lord of the rings GIF


Helldivers 2 is the same game regardless of DLC packaging, Destiny 2 is pre-Sony, and Ghost of Tsushima is not even out yet (many may refund).

Helldivers has two skus, one of which is worth more money, and it is outselling other games in addition to the main sku. Not sure how that doesn't "count".

Sony owns Bungie and Destiny. Not sure what to tell you here either. I've been told constantly that Sony buying Bungie was a mistake because of declining sales of Destiny 2, but here it is performing quite well on Steam and even before the final DLC releases. Maybe people shouldn't count Bungie out just yet.

As for Ghost of Tsushima, it's ranking high and it's not even available yet. The reality is unless it's a technical disaster, it is only going to increase in performance.

This is what a successful strategy looks like...
 
The point isn't it wont sell. It will even do better when they do day and date. Its argued that it will take away from their main business which will hurt their bottom line.

There really isn't any evidence that it will hurt their console business.

I think people conflate Microsoft's strategy and Sony's. It wasn't only Day 1 PC that hurt Microsoft, but Day 1 GamePass, and Day 1 GamePass on PC. Combined with games that weren't in large to demand to begin with, is why Xbox console sales have dried up. Given how much Xbox Series is tracking compared to Xbox One despite the other stumbles, would suggest there isn't much evidence that Sony's strategy is going to impact their sales in a tangible way. In fact the PS5 is tracking ahead of the PS4 in many regions now.
 

Beechos

Member
Until Dawn makes sense as Day 1. You can already play the game on PS5 via the PS4 version and it was actually free as part of the PS Collection iirc.

Every game on that collection is probably primed for a remake/remaster.

But will Spider-Man 3 launch day 1 on PC? I doubt it.
They all will eventually come, just like how ms will "only" release smaller games on other platforms.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Helldivers has two skus, one of which is worth more money, and it is outselling other games in addition to the main sku. Not sure how that doesn't "count".

Sony owns Bungie and Destiny. Not sure what to tell you here either. I've been told constantly that Sony buying Bungie was a mistake because of declining sales of Destiny 2, but here it is performing quite well on Steam and even before the final DLC releases. Maybe people shouldn't count Bungie out just yet.

As for Ghost of Tsushima, it's ranking high and it's not even available yet. The reality is unless it's a technical disaster, it is only going to increase in performance.

This is what a successful strategy looks like...
Well if we're splitting hairs here....Destiny is also free to play isn't it? And has been out for many years prior to being associated specifically with Sony.

Though this is a bum year for COD, people still try to attribute COD sales (or lack thereof) to Xbox...when it really doesn't make sense. Same goes for Destiny.

I'm excited for a definitive version of Ghosts of Tsushima, but the game isn't out yet and I generally go with the premise that you don't wanna count your chickens before they hatch. Still the fact that it's in the top 10 bodes well for Sony.

You might also want to consider what else is out there right now that could give proper competition. If you want to be genuine you should have listed the entire top 10. If the other contenders are remarkable then it means a better showing for the Sony games. If the other top 10 are older games that have nearly reached saturation then this is a nothing burger.
 

Fabieter

Member
There really isn't any evidence that it will hurt their console business.

I think people conflate Microsoft's strategy and Sony's. It wasn't only Day 1 PC that hurt Microsoft, but Day 1 GamePass, and Day 1 GamePass on PC. Combined with games that weren't in large to demand to begin with, is why Xbox console sales have dried up. Given how much Xbox Series is tracking compared to Xbox One despite the other stumbles, would suggest there isn't much evidence that Sony's strategy is going to impact their sales in a tangible way. In fact the PS5 is tracking ahead of the PS4 in many regions now.

Missing their target by 15% and predicting a decline in PS5 sales going forward suggest that it might ultimately lag behind the PS4. It seems the PS5's success is largely riding on the strong momentum established by the PS4, rather than other strategic decisions.

Decisions won't affect markets right away and they don't have their own store which gives them the ability to expand their ecosystem in a meaningful way on pc.

Well let's see how it goes for them. But even if playstation is declining people won't blame the lag of exclusives anyway. So it won't matter either way.
 
They all will eventually come, just like how ms will "only" release smaller games on other platforms.

  • Batman: Arkham Knight
  • Battlefield 1
  • Bloodborne
  • Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 – Zombies Chronicles Edition
  • Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy
  • Days Gone
  • Detroit: Become Human
  • Fallout 4
  • Final Fantasy XV: Royal Edition
  • God of War (2018)
  • inFAMOUS Second Son
  • Monster Hunter World
  • Mortal Kombat X
  • Ratchet & Clank
  • Resident Evil 7: Biohazard
  • The Last Guardian
  • The Last of Us: Remastered
  • Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End
  • Until Dawn

Ignoring 3rd party titles, you don't have a massive list. Until Dawn proves that Sony can move forward without the original developer (actually Demon's Souls proved that to a degree). That being said, DBH was published by a different company on PC.

Last Guardian and Bloodborne have yet to receive PS5 patches.

It's always really important to remember how busy these studios are. inFAMOUS is not a priority for Sucker Punch, Ghost of Tsushima is. Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart didn't really sell that well on PC, so why would Insomniac waste time putting the somwhat panned remake on there?

Uncharted 4, God of War, and Day's Gone have already gone.
 

nowhat

Member
Gran Turismo 7 is going to sell gangbusters if they do end up porting it too.
Imagine 4K 120fps with ray tracing during races.
Unless it's officially announced, I don't see it coming. GT is still one of the reasons to own a PS, and I can see Sony keeping such a flagship title as exclusive. That, and also it's a legit esport - no matter the rootkit, PC would allow for all kinds of exploits.
 

Audiophile

Gold Member
Sports & Existing Multiplats
PS, XB & PC (+Ninty where applicable): Day 1

GaaS/Multiplayer-centric/Remasters/Remakes/Select VR-Only
PS & PC: Day 1

Flagship Single Player-centric
PS: Day 1
PC: 12-18Mths
 
You might also want to consider what else is out there right now that could give proper competition. If you want to be genuine you should have listed the entire top 10. If the other contenders are remarkable then it means a better showing for the Sony games. If the other top 10 are older games that have nearly reached saturation then this is a nothing burger.

That's pretty disingenuous. We don't have sales totals either, but you're not asking for those. The fact that the argument was that Sony had no business putting their games on PC and they're clearing taking mind share there says all it needs to.

If you wanted to argue let's wait to see how their games rank at the end of the year that would have been a stronger argument.

Missing their target by 15% and predicting a decline in PS5 sales going forward suggest that it might ultimately lag behind the PS4. It seems the PS5's success is largely riding on the strong momentum established by the PS4, rather than other strategic decisions.

Decisions won't affect markets right away and they don't have their own store which gives them the ability to expand their ecosystem in a meaningful way on pc.

Well let's see how it goes for them. But even if playstation is declining people won't blame the lag of exclusives anyway. So it won't matter either way.

You're reading into things rather than doing a like for like analysis. Sony said the same thing about the PS4. A decline in PS5 sales doesn't put it on a different trajectory than PS4 sales that also declined... that's just the product life cycle. Missing their target, simply means that it didn't sell as well as they had hoped. They thought the gravy train would keep rolling.

Decisions absolutely effect markets right away. Sony has been publishing games on PC for nearly half a decade now, we should see some effect by now and we absolutely don't.
 
Unless it's officially announced, I don't see it coming. GT is still one of the reasons to own a PS, and I can see Sony keeping such a flagship title as exclusive. That, and also it's a legit esport - no matter the rootkit, PC would allow for all kinds of exploits.

Kazunori Yamauchi already confirmed they were looking into it. God of War, Horizon, Gran Turismo, and Uncharted are everybit the flagship title that Gran Turismo is.

Being an esport doesn't prevent other games from being on PC, not sure why it would prevent GT7.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
That's pretty disingenuous. We don't have sales totals either, but you're not asking for those. The fact that the argument was that Sony had no business putting their games on PC and they're clearing taking mind share there says all it needs to.

If you wanted to argue let's wait to see how their games rank at the end of the year that would have been a stronger argument.



You're reading into things rather than doing a like for like analysis. Sony said the same thing about the PS4. A decline in PS5 sales doesn't put it on a different trajectory than PS4 sales that also declined... that's just the product life cycle. Missing their target, simply means that it didn't sell as well as they had hoped. They thought the gravy train would keep rolling.

Decisions absolutely effect markets right away. Sony has been publishing games on PC for nearly half a decade now, we should see some effect by now and we absolutely don't.
I mean I'm trying to keep things in the realm of possibility here. We typically get sales numbers from other sources than Steam, so I thought it would be asking too much for that....though, you're right, sales number would really clear the air here. I don't care enough about that so the other markers I've mentioned should suffice for now because it is getable information that you seem to have excluded.
 
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Sports & Existing Multiplats
PS, XB & PC (+Ninty where applicable): Day 1

GaaS/Multiplayer-centric/Remasters/Remakes/Select VR-Only
PS & PC: Day 1

Flagship Single Player-centric
PS: Day 1
PC: 12-18Mths

Think you're pretty right on the money here, though I would probably call it 12-18+ months.

God of War Ragnarok is sitting at 16 months now and it hasn't even been announced for PC.

Think it might be wise to breakdown Flagship Single Player and Single Player.

Horizon Forbidden West is more than 2 years. Maybe this hastens under Totoki, but I think we still have to see elements of this play out.
 

Fabieter

Member
That's pretty disingenuous. We don't have sales totals either, but you're not asking for those. The fact that the argument was that Sony had no business putting their games on PC and they're clearing taking mind share there says all it needs to.

If you wanted to argue let's wait to see how their games rank at the end of the year that would have been a stronger argument.



You're reading into things rather than doing a like for like analysis. Sony said the same thing about the PS4. A decline in PS5 sales doesn't put it on a different trajectory than PS4 sales that also declined... that's just the product life cycle. Missing their target, simply means that it didn't sell as well as they had hoped. They thought the gravy train would keep rolling.

Decisions absolutely effect markets right away. Sony has been publishing games on PC for nearly half a decade now, we should see some effect by now and we absolutely don't.

It's challenging to determine the overlap of people buying into this generation under the belief that it's necessary for timely access to specific games, or at all. We'll have a clearer picture next generation to see if they can maintain this pace.

Most of the evidence supporting this is anecdotal.
 
It's challenging to determine the overlap of people buying into this generation under the belief that it's necessary for timely access to specific games, or at all. We'll have a clearer picture next generation to see if they can maintain this pace.

Most of the evidence supporting this is anecdotal.

Ask yourself why more people play CoD on console than PC. It's not just about what games are available. There are other elements at play here:

Form factor, price, consistency...

Consoles are not and have never been at danger of being replaced by PC.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Ask yourself why more people play CoD on console than PC. It's not just about what games are available. There are other elements at play here:

Form factor, price, consistency...

Consoles are not and have never been at danger of being replaced by PC.
Facts. PC won't replace consoles.

PC's often require too much maintenance and tinkering that only specific types of folks can appreciate IMO.

As you mentioned, price is also a huge barrier to entry for many folks especially when consoles seem to be closing the gap in terms of quality of graphics and even now framerate is less of a concern for most games. You'll still have your Cyberpunks and Starfields that run at an abyssmal 30 fps on medium settings on console....but hey...COD runs close to a solid 120fps with pretty decent quality. Fighting games still maintain parity so even on pc lots of those games still run at 60fps, though there are some fighting games that allow 120 fps.

Looking at the way things are trending though. I think consoles have to worry more about streaming becoming it's achilles heel.
 
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Facts. PC won't replace consoles.

PC's often require too much maintenance and tinkering that only specific types of folks can appreciate IMO.

As you mentioned, price is also a huge barrier to entry for many folks especially when consoles seem to be closing the gap in terms of quality of graphics and even now framerate is less of a concern for most games. You'll still have your Cyberpunks and Starfields that run at an abyssmal 30 fps on medium settings on console....but hey...COD runs close to a solid 120fps with pretty decent quality. Fighting games still maintain parity so even on pc lots of those games still run at 60fps, though there are some fighting games that allow 120 fps.

PS5 will probably continue to be sold well after the PS6 launches.

Console will grow as a platform with cross gen titles as a result. One of the biggest problems that has plagued consoles in recent years due to rising development costs is that new consoles have small userbases, so you don't want to build large games for them. It's why GT6 and TLOU launched on PS3 rather than PS4.

If we return to a time where last-gen consoles can be purchased for super cheap they're going to pose a significant problem to PC gaming.

The question is can Sony sell a PS5 for 200-300 dollars at any point?

One of the biggest advantages PC gaming has is that PCs are largely ubiquitous. GeForce GTX 780 meets the minimum requirements for Cyberpunk and it launched before the PS4.

The secret for Sony in getting PS5s sold in larger numbers than say PS2, will be maintaining its sales longer and offering it in more form factors i.e. a handheld.
 

Fabieter

Member
Ask yourself why more people play CoD on console than PC. It's not just about what games are available. There are other elements at play here:

Form factor, price, consistency...

Consoles are not and have never been at danger of being replaced by PC.

People playing COD on consoles might stick to it's the cumulative library that defines its value. With Microsoft and Sony games available on PC, along with PC exclusives and games accessible on PC before consoles, the gaming experience on pc is arguable in better shape than consoles.

Price is no longer a significant factor in 2024, and the benefits are relatively small. Speculatively, Valve might introduce a console-like product, providing a similar experience as consoles with additional advantages. It's speculative, but I wouldn't confidently assert their position in the industry as guaranteed.
 
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Jigsaah

Gold Member
PS5 will probably continue to be sold well after the PS6 launches.

Console will grow as a platform with cross gen titles as a result. One of the biggest problems that has plagued consoles in recent years due to rising development costs is that new consoles have small userbases, so you don't want to build large games for them. It's why GT6 and TLOU launched on PS3 rather than PS4.

If we return to a time where last-gen consoles can be purchased for super cheap they're going to pose a significant problem to PC gaming.

The question is can Sony sell a PS5 for 200-300 dollars at any point?

One of the biggest advantages PC gaming has is that PCs are largely ubiquitous. GeForce GTX 780 meets the minimum requirements for Cyberpunk and it launched before the PS4.

The secret for Sony in getting PS5s sold in larger numbers than say PS2, will be maintaining its sales longer and offering it in more form factors i.e. a handheld.
Can Sony sell at 300 when PS6 comes out? Eventually yea.

Will they? If history tells us anything maybe for a short time but that may change given that iterations of consoles nowadays seem to be less of a paradigm shift in quality of games with new features...but now resembles more of what PCs do. New hardware just enables folks to play newer games at higher quality, but don't prevent them from playing older games at even greater quality than when they were new.

There are some other factors to look at though. Sony is missing their own projections as Totoki mentioned in his earnings calls. This could turn around but they are actively looking at PC, so would they abandon PS5 prematurely to ramp up PS6? If I were to guess I'd say they repeat history. PS4 was being sold for a year or so after PS5s launch, then eventually fell into obscurity. I think PS5 does the same if PS6 has a strong showing.
 
Sony is quickly becoming one of the more pre-eminent PC publishers. In the United States they have 4 games ranked in the top 10 and 4 in the top 15 globally.

They have 4 of the top 10 current best sellers.
  • Helldivers 2 (1st/1st)
  • Destiny 2 (5th/9th)
  • Ghost of Tsushima Directors Cut (pre-order) (7th/11th)
  • Helldivers 2 - Super Citizen Edition (8th/15th)
Quite a good performance considering the narrative from many that they should give up PC support or that there isn't demand for their games on PC.

Demand at what cost though? We know part of Helldivers 2's PC sales are PS5/PC owners who opted for Steam due to cheaper price, free online and higher performance options. We also have fiscal data showing the low revenue amounts most of the more recent PC ports have been bringing in.

Also I still remember when the PC initiative was sold as a way to ensure more games for console owners but there have been less 1P releases for PS5 so far vs. PS4 launch-aligned. Not to mention, so far it's meant more games are getting simultaneously (to some extent) console/PC development resulting in longer wait times for console owners (Wolverine for example).

I haven't even touched on the potential sales and revenue declines console-side yet, which would accelerate if the PC strategy itself accelerates in both frequency and speed.

It'll be interesting to see how Horizon performs, as well as the inevitable Last of Us Part 2.

It certainly will be.
 
Can Sony sell at 300 when PS6 comes out? Eventually yea.

Will they? If history tells us anything maybe for a short time but that may change given that iterations of consoles nowadays seem to be less of a paradigm shift in quality of games with new features...but now resembles more of what PCs do. New hardware just enables folks to play newer games at higher quality, but don't prevent them from playing older games at even greater quality than when they were new.

There are some other factors to look at though. Sony is missing their own projections as Totoki mentioned in his earnings calls. This could turn around but they are actively looking at PC, so would they abandon PS5 prematurely to ramp up PS6? If I were to guess I'd say they repeat history. PS4 was being sold for a year or so after PS5s launch, then eventually fell into obscurity. I think PS5 does the same if PS6 has a strong showing.

For Sony it will make more sense to sell a PS5 at cost or cheap profit than it is to sell their games on PC. Continuing to support the PS5 even after the PS6 arrives, will make tremendous sense for them financially, especially if they can keep the attach rates and MAUs high due to new consumers.

I think the biggest problem might be AI based open worlds which the PS5 might really struggle to manage, but who knows we'll see.

I think PS6 will come out pretty much when it was meant to. Sony said PS5 was in decline and they said the same about PS4.

The PS4s sales ramp was largely impacted by the pandemic and a lack of memory and the SSD also make the PS4 a problem.
 

ProtoByte

Member
2 GaaS titles, above a singleplayer IP.

That's the reason Sony is talking about GaaS primarily when talking about PC releases (day 1 in particular).
And we've seen the numbers on how SP first parties sell on PC. They're not too impressive.

Again, all this is going to do is decrease the potential of sales on PlayStation, and keep revenue stagnant or even mildly reduced in the long term. Recent events have proven this stuff doesn't change the outcome of decline/stagnation.
 
Demand at what cost though? We know part of Helldivers 2's PC sales are PS5/PC owners who opted for Steam due to cheaper price, free online and higher performance options. We also have fiscal data showing the low revenue amounts most of the more recent PC ports have been bringing in.

Also I still remember when the PC initiative was sold as a way to ensure more games for console owners but there have been less 1P releases for PS5 so far vs. PS4 launch-aligned. Not to mention, so far it's meant more games are getting simultaneously (to some extent) console/PC development resulting in longer wait times for console owners (Wolverine for example).

I haven't even touched on the potential sales and revenue declines console-side yet, which would accelerate if the PC strategy itself accelerates in both frequency and speed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the person pushing that sales were stronger on PS5 and more a kin to 1:1 when all data suggested that it was selling better on PC?

There have been larger 1P releases on PS5 vs PS4 launch aligned and it isn't even close.

No evidence to suggest that PC development is creating longer development cycles for console.
 
People playing COD on consoles might stick to it's the cumulative library that defines its value. With Microsoft and Sony games available on PC, along with PC exclusives and games accessible on PC before consoles, the gaming experience on pc is arguable in better shape than consoles.

Price is no longer a significant factor in 2024, and the benefits are relatively small. Speculatively, Valve might introduce a console-like product, providing a similar experience as consoles with additional advantages. It's speculative, but I wouldn't confidently assert their position in the industry as guaranteed.

Cumulative libraries were not the case from PS3/360 to PS4/X1, yet there was not a massive pilgrimage to PC.

It goes beyond speculation that Valve would release a console like product.

For Valve to release their own console, the hardware would have to be significantly more expensive than current consoles.
 
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