• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Doom Eternal’s primary focus is to increase player engagement, won’t feature deathmatch to keep players “happy”

CyberPanda

Banned
In an interview with GamesIndustry, id Software’s Hugo Martin revealed that Doom Eternal’s main focus is to increase player engagement. And while this may be a cool way to improve the game’s single-player experience, I am a bit worried about its MP mode. Oh, and let’s not forget that the game will feature microtransactions.
As Martin told GamesIndustry:
“That was pretty much the primary goal of every decision we’ve made; how we get people engaged from beginning to end. Not even just the beginning of the level to the end of the level or the combat, but the entire game — that the third act of the single-player campaign is just as compelling if not more so than the first act was. It was challenging because people loved the last game so much. We really couldn’t use the same exact tricks as last time to engage the player. It’s like old hat to them at this point.”
Again, this is a good thing for the single-player campaign
Martin continued:
“We wanted to make sure the level design and the combat really gave you something to have to master. You master and conquer the levels just as much as you conquer the combat and encounters. And that’s what feels really empowering to the player, something that is earned. It’s very easy for us to make it, ‘Here’s a super powerful gun and some hallways; just walk down them and slaughter everything.’ That’s not a $60 game in my opinion. So I think engagement was our overriding theme for this game.”
Player engagement is something that most companies focus these days via different methods. One of them is via microtransactions and Doom Eternal will feature them. From what we know, the microtransactions will offer “boosts” and/or “powerups”. There might also be cosmetics.

Perhaps what’s more worrying here is the reason why the game won’t feature the classic deathmatch mode. According to the developers, deathmatch discourages those that are not good in the game. And since the team wants to increase player engagement, it has come up with another way to keep them happy.
“So if we come up on each other [in a Doom 2016 multiplayer match] and all the game is relying on from a design perspective is aiming and shooting, well there are going to be people who aim and shoot better than you and there’s pretty much nothing you can do about that. That made death a frustrating experience because it meant you were just better than me. In this game, I can overcome your incredible twitch skills with teamwork and strategy, which gives me a chance. Then it allows the game to have what 2016 had none of: metas. There’s some real depth to this experience.”
Seriously, this is so wrong on so many levels. But hey, at least you now know why the game will not feature its classic deathmatch modes. Apparently, it’s more important to keep players happy and increase player engagement than to get good. In a competitive game. Now I wouldn’t really mind this if the game actually had its traditional MP modes alongside its Battle Mode.

id Software’s Marty Stratton stated in that same interview that id Software wants to lead, and not to follow. However, we’ve already seen this mode in other games. Sure thing, there might some tweaks and variations, but it’s nothing new. To be honest, id Software is not bringing anything new to the table with Battle Mode. So yeah, it appears that it’s not leading as its developers want to believe.

Doom Eternal releases on November 22nd.

 
Engagement this, engagement that.

Fuck off, just make it good please.
goddamn pathetic embarrassment
I fucking hate most modern AAA these days.

Man, did you guys play Doom 2016? Pretty amazing game that bucked many problems AAA games have, like it actually looked better than it's E3 trailers instead of worse. It was a great game that gave us a beefy campaign and felt like real soul and passion was put into it. What they're doing here, if you read it, is responding to the fans not being big on the Death match in Doom 2016 and yeah, for many people it was the weak spot of the entry. Doom Eternal has personally been my most hyped game of the year the whole year because of how amazing Doom 2016 was, sometimes it feels like this forum thrives on negativity.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Man, did you guys play Doom 2016? Pretty amazing game that bucked many problems AAA games have, like it actually looked better than it's E3 trailers instead of worse. It was a great game that gave us a beefy campaign and felt like real soul and passion was put into it. What they're doing here, if you read it, is responding to the fans not being big on the Death match in Doom 2016 and yeah, for many people it was the weak spot of the entry. Doom Eternal has personally been my most hyped game of the year the whole year because of how amazing Doom 2016 was, sometimes it feels like this forum thrives on negativity.

loved doom 2016 but i can only tolerate fighting the computer for so long before it becomes a mindless slog

this company used to be the competitive multiplayer fps power house of the industry, it's just sad to see them fall so far
 

stickkidsam

Member
an idiot said:
"there are going to be people who aim and shoot better than you... That made death a frustrating experience because it meant you were just better than me."
tenor.gif


Is this guy 5 years old?
 

Shifty

Member
Man, did you guys play Doom 2016? Pretty amazing game that bucked many problems AAA games have, like it actually looked better than it's E3 trailers instead of worse. It was a great game that gave us a beefy campaign and felt like real soul and passion was put into it. What they're doing here, if you read it, is responding to the fans not being big on the Death match in Doom 2016 and yeah, for many people it was the weak spot of the entry. Doom Eternal has personally been my most hyped game of the year the whole year because of how amazing Doom 2016 was, sometimes it feels like this forum thrives on negativity.
Doom 2016 was fantastic and I share your sentiments about its campaign.

However, the wording here effectively says "deathmatch made players feel bad if they were bad at it", they aren't actually addresssing the fact that the MP in the first game kind of sucked as you seem to be implying.

In reality what we're seeing is a hard separation between the power fantasy of old-school single player, and the ruthless skill-based nature of old-school arena multiplayer. Now that Quake has been established as the multiplayer franchise via Champions (for better or worse...) they're swapping out Doom's multiplayer model for something less mechanical and more tactical in an attempt to appeal to Joe "Can't Deal With Being Bad At Competitive Multiplayer" Casual.

I'm hyped for Doom Eternal as well, but I'm not going to let that stop me from calling out poorly-reasoned design choices when I see them. The new multiplayer could be great, but justifying the traditional model being cut because it feels bad to lose is totally missing the point, and makes me question whether the people making it still have their priorities straight in spite of ever-encroaching AAA publisher greed.
 
Last edited:

MiguelItUp

Member
Did anyone actually like the multiplayer in Doom 2016, though?
I enjoyed it for what it was. The thing is DOOM created deathmatch, so a DOOM game without feels odd.

2016's multiplayer was done externally by Certain Affinity, this one is being done inhouse. A lot of people were excited about its multiplayer being done inhouse, me included. But I was expecting deathmatch, not some asymmetrical multiplayer mode. I'm legit pretty bummed.

2016's multiplayer wasn't horrible in my opinion it just suffered from an identity crisis. A big one.

Edit: Microtransactions? Ugh, Jesus what the fuck.
 
Last edited:
This part here was bizarre to me...

So if we come up on each other [in a Doom 2016 multiplayer match] and all the game is relying on from a design perspective is aiming and shooting, well there are going to be people who aim and shoot better than you and there’s pretty much nothing you can do about that. That made death a frustrating experience because it meant you were just better than me.

Has this person ever played competitive multiplayer before? In any game? Has this person ever played a sport before? Or Monopoly? What kind of pussy ass shit is this? Yeah, there will always be someone better than you. Yeah you may not come in first every match. Who cares. If the multiplayer is designed well (i.e. not like Doom 2016) then there is still entertainment to be had.
 

stickkidsam

Member
So why is it frustrating to get killed by someone better than me in a competitive gametype, but it's apparently just peachy to be killed because some asshole spent real money on a fucking power up?

What I'm getting from this is that the multiplayer is being designed with the idea that you as a player suck and couldn't possibly improve on your own. I'm excited to play the campaign, but the reasoning this guy is throwing out for the multiplayer design is so patronizing it hurts.
 

GermanZepp

Member
This part here was bizarre to me...



Has this person ever played competitive multiplayer before? In any game? Has this person ever played a sport before? Or Monopoly? What kind of pussy ass shit is this? Yeah, there will always be someone better than you. Yeah you may not come in first every match. Who cares. If the multiplayer is designed well (i.e. not like Doom 2016) then there is still entertainment to be had.

I can't believe it. That quote has to be like a joke or maybe trolling. EDIT: the quote from the article
 
Last edited:

dirthead

Banned
Doom Eternal is going to be a disappointment. Doom 2016 is a good game but not as great as people make it out to be. id is in full enjoying the smell of its own farts mode.
 

Phase

Member
This part here was bizarre to me...



Has this person ever played competitive multiplayer before? In any game? Has this person ever played a sport before? Or Monopoly? What kind of pussy ass shit is this? Yeah, there will always be someone better than you. Yeah you may not come in first every match. Who cares. If the multiplayer is designed well (i.e. not like Doom 2016) then there is still entertainment to be had.
Welp, Hugo's there so the outlook's not too good.
 
Last edited:
This part here was bizarre to me...



Has this person ever played competitive multiplayer before? In any game? Has this person ever played a sport before? Or Monopoly? What kind of pussy ass shit is this? Yeah, there will always be someone better than you. Yeah you may not come in first every match. Who cares. If the multiplayer is designed well (i.e. not like Doom 2016) then there is still entertainment to be had.

They're just trying to cater to e-sports. 1v1 or FFA deathmatch doesn't grab twitch views.

If you read he talks about wanting to add "metas" into Doom with team gameplay. Which isn't a thing in classic Doom or Quake pvp, it's all skill.

They're clearly trying some sort of push to make Doom Eternal a popular e-sport.
 
Doom Eternal is going to be a disappointment. Doom 2016 is a good game but not as great as people make it out to be. id is in full enjoying the smell of its own farts mode.

Yeah, see, the ideas in here are inviting stuff like this, lol.

Personally I didn't care for the MP so it's not really a big loss to me, plus it doesn't sound like there's no multiplayer, just sounds like it's team based now. I get the idea "Doom started it, they shouldn't drop it" but eh I'd rather pick and choose my battles, there's no shortage of fun multiplayer for me to participate in, but there is a shortage of campaign experiences like Doom 2016.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Doom Eternal is going to be a disappointment. Doom 2016 is a good game but not as great as people make it out to be. id is in full enjoying the smell of its own farts mode.
Wrong.
My 4 copies of the game say you are wrong.
Doom 2016 is still the best FPS we had in years.
Its tony hawk with guns..

If you don't understand this.
You are playing it wrong.
 
Doom without multiplayer is unthinkable. But simultaneously, it never even occurred to me to try the multiplayer in the Doom reboot, I just never had any interest.

This is a bit like backwards compatibility on a new console. I want it, I gotta have it, and I don't use it.

Anyway, I enjoyed the single player very much in the new Doom. Which makes me wonder about the the single player experience in Doom Eternal.

There was a lot of fuss made initially about the politically incorrect humour in the reveal. I quite enjoyed it, to be honest. But recently they only talk about gameplay, we haven't seen or heard anything about offensive humour in the game's tone in a long time. Which makes me wonder if it has been reduced or even removed to appease modern game journalists. If that is the case, a very very easy mode would not go astray as well.

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the game's humour/tone recently?
 

Phase

Member
Do you know how to solve that problem? Skill based ranks so the potatoes can potate against other potatoes.
Skill based ranks in a MP nowadays? Are you mad?! How would developers get their potatoes to play long term when they have to see how much they suck?

But srsly, every MP shooter should implement 1-50 ranks a la Halo 2. If you disagree you're a potato.
 

Darak

Member
Player engagement is something that most companies focus these days via different methods. One of them is via microtransactions and Doom Eternal will feature them.

Adding microtransactions will actually reduce player engagement, as players leave earlier when they find paywalls or grinds.

They are not wrong about companies focusing on player engagement, but companies do that because microtransactions show a very stable conversion rate over time. In other words, players engaged for more time directly translates to more money. However, they improve engagement using a variety of other methods (content updates, timed events and offers, 'come back' notices, social features, etc). Microtransactions are not a player engagement tool, they are the reason why they are interested in player engagement to begin with.
 
Last edited:

sn0man

Member
“something to have to master. You master and conquer the levels just as much as you conquer the combat and encounters. And that’s what feels really empowering to the player, something that is earned. It’s very easy for us to make it, ‘Here’s a super powerful gun and some hallways; just walk down them and slaughter everything.’ That’s not a $60 game in my opinion.”

we want people to master something but we don’t want to hurt feels by providing death match they might have to practice?

I hadn’t read the article till halfway through the comments. DoomE will have a multiplayer it just isn’t death match and it sounds like a big team battle mode.

also the quotes talking about how death match is only twitch skill shows a large amount of market speak that reeks of someone assuming the customer is foolish. Running a level and control resources in doom and quake can be just as valuable as twitch. (I’m old now but even growing up I had to rely on level knowledge more so than twitch. Needed rocket to counter aim deficiency, needed elevation to maximize rocket efficacy, needed armor to stay alive. All part of practice and challenge.)

they should just say something truthful: we need large numbers of players to monetize a certain percentage and a mode such as death match doesn’t lend itself to that.

honestly a ranked and a casual mode might work.
 

Walledhouse

Member
The new multiplayer could be great, but justifying the traditional model being cut because it feels bad to lose is totally missing the point, ...

This talk we’ve just witnessed is the kind of closed-doors design talk that shouldn’t make it to interviews. They should have dressed it up with a dialog that didn’t let on that they are selling out. At least silence would let us give them the benefit of the doubt.

Part of the reason why the most popular games remain popular, is that they let less-skilled players score a kill every now and then: from supers or ultimates on a cooldown; from lucky weapons spawns; or from good old-fashioned camping.

I don’t know if Call of Duty developers had design foresight, but things like the ‘noob tube’ let new players fight back against skilled players; enough that they felt like successful underdogs rather than the downtrodden.

Let Doom have these mechanics; but don’t insult everyone by revealing the mirror behind the smoke. And...

FUCK. YOU.
 
Lowkey it's gonna be the GOTY. Just double down on that campaign mode, just go ham with it, the lackluster multiplayer from the last game is no big loss.
 
Top Bottom