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Dota 2 Beta Thread 3: Gunnar Optiks Required [Faster Loading]

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Yeah, they need to nerf the cooldown and not the spell itself.

Also:
Meepo
- Divided We Stand Aghanims upgrade now gives clones 100% stat sharing

This is big.

Could be. However it requires getting to Aghanims with Meepo. Also does it still give the extra clone or just 100% stats?
 
Drow is now a aura hero? The damage could be good midgame for all teammates.

WHY DO THEY KEEP BUFFING LUNA

Hmm, liking the change on Silencer.
 
New force staff hurts Skeleton King a hell of a lot. Used to give him pretty much everything he wanted. And with the Sven buffs he is even less attractive to draft.
 
Man, 6.76 out of fucking nowhere. After these last 2 patches I am beginning to think Icefrog isnt in Seattle with Valve, but like, in some hidden base in China.

Tagteam mode seems very interesting. Will be a lot of fun to mess around with that. Now for the other stuff...

Centaur's new ult looks baller as hell. I dont know if it will last in its current form. Global escape/ganking for the entire team is pretty damn significant. I will have to see if this max-movespeed thing is kind of like Lycan's ult, where slows do nothing, or if slows play a factor. Global Lycan-style speed would be crazy for initiation or escape.

Does Clockwerk's change mean he no longer needs Scepter for Hookshot to latch onto allies? If so, thats a major buff, also makes Scepter not as necessary, which should help people play him in games where he doesnt get the required farm to be durable AND get Scepter.

Wow, Drow's new Trueshot Aura is fucking good. She is going to be a staple in push-centric strategies now. After seeing the change to Centaur's ult though, I am kind of surprised they didnt change hers as drastically. I suppose Icefrog is trying to see how he can take her boring ultimate and combine it with her other abilities first.

Enjoy the overall buffs to Magnus, such a fun hero. Skewer will hopefully not be as annoying to use, especially in-lane.

Whelp, Scepter will probably be Meepo's 3rd item, or maybe even 2nd. Thats a pretty damn big buff to his durability. Basically opens up a whole new world of item builds for him.

Well looks like Phoenix is just gonna be in limbo for a while. Hopefully he keeps this version of Icarus Dive, as its basically his core ability and the rest is gravy. Still dont like Sunbeam now.

Hrm, big Silencer changes, obviously the biggest being towards Last Word. While it no longer will be impossible to initiate on a team with Silencer on it now, which is good, I felt that was his biggest strength. Maybe with these changes though, we will see a return to Carry-Silencer, focusing on locking down single targets with the new Last Word.

Oh god, Sniper. Those Headshot changes are fucking massive. 40% chance for .25 sec stun at all levels is crazy. The damage boost is just gravy. Also, free MKB 40% of the time... jesus. I will be very surprised if he does not get some picks in higher level games now.

Not a huge change, but Witch Doctor getting his Scepter-level-3 Ward nerfed doesnt seem like it was necessary. Hero is barely picked anyway, and that was his biggest strength. Surprised he didnt give any love to WD in other ways this patch.

Glad to see Rod of Atos still being worked on, I really like the item, even though it is kind of stuck between Force Staff and Orchid in both role and price, and I feel both of those overshadow it.

Also no idea why the boot change was necessary, maybe just a small nerf to the overall speed of heroes? Or perhaps just a subtle buff to BoT.
 
You know, Centaur's ult being reworked would explain why we didn't get him this week.


I really don't get why Drow gets the double agility if she is only 375 away from enemy heroes, it really should be her attack range. Guess if you end up facing her 1v1, you just have to man up.


Oh, now you can start with boots, get a tango, and a branch! Boots first slightly less dumb, and viable for teams aiming for early kills.
 
I feel this change makes Drow even more useless since she's now even less powerful when being initiated upon.

Everyone is gonna have to babysit her even more until she can get a shadow blade.
 
She has more AGI now, at all levels, until 16.

Currently, Marksmanship is 15/30/60, the new one will be 20/30/40 before it gets the double bonus.

It is a large buff to her early/mid game as well as giving her more of a presence during those phases. Because of its synergy with her new aura, she can contribute to the team even while farming a lane solo. However, it's a nerf to her lategame because no smart team will leave her alone in team fights.
 
I'm liking the look of those Silencer changes. I haven't really played him much, but the "damned if you do damned if you don't" style of the new ability is giving me a Guild wars 1 Mesmer vibe. And the nuke damage on it is no joke for a 100 mana cost spell (at all levels), given his int buff as well.
 
I feel this change makes Drow even more useless since she's now even less powerful when being initiated upon.

Everyone is gonna have to babysit her even more until she can get a shadow blade.

You already lost if your Drow is getting an offensive item for defense.
 
She has more AGI now, at all levels, until 16.

Currently, Marksmanship is 15/30/60, the new one will be 20/30/40 before it gets the double bonus.

It is a large buff to her early/mid game as well as giving her more of a presence during those phases. Because of its synergy with her new aura, she can contribute even while farming a lane solo. However, it's a nerf to her lategame because no smart team will leave her alone in team fights.

Have yet to do the math on it, but the change to Trueshot seems like she will be worse when people are within 375 range.

Bonus Damage: 14/18/22/26% of your agility as damage

As opposed to the 26% being added straight to physical damage.
Would like someone to do that math and prove me wrong, as I want to play more Drow.
 
You know, Centaur's ult being reworked would explain why we didn't get him this week.


I really don't get why Drow gets the double agility if she is only 375 away from enemy heroes, it really should be her attack range. Guess if you end up facing her 1v1, you just have to man up.


Oh, now you can start with boots, get a tango, and a branch! Boots first slightly less dumb, and viable for teams aiming for early kills.

She gets the double agility bonus if there are no enemy heroes within a 375 radius of her, not the other way around. If they get close, she loses her bonus.

EDIT: I think I'm misreading what you're saying. If it was set at her attack range, she would never get to use it unless the enemy hero was running away.
 
It's 8%/16%/24%/32%, and that's only base ranged damage. In an idealized situation with 4 other ranged allies with high base damage, yes, the current Trueshot aura will be better. In the average case scenario, this new aura will be better.
 

Drow is so legit now. So is Silencer.

So ready.

Have yet to do the math on it, but the change to Trueshot seems like she will be worse when people are within 375 range.

Bonus Damage: 14/18/22/26% of your agility as damage

As opposed to the 26% being added straight to physical damage.
Would like someone to do that math and prove me wrong, as I want to play more Drow.

She's technically weaker, but the amount of items she can farm up in the same amount of time is significantly buffed and more than makes up for the slight losses in Trueshot and Marksmanship. IMO. When farming at level 11, you're getting the current level 16 Marksmanship agi bonus (60). That's a pretty big deal, as that phase of the game is probably the most important part of the game (level 11-16 tower-taking and team fighting).

Send her mid, let her get treads/phases and a dom helm, get her to level 11 fast and she's gonna snowball from jungle and ancient stack farming.
 
i'm liking the lion/lina buffs

the Razor, Pugna and Sniper buffs are pretty big too.

That witchdoctor buff is almost stupefying. Scepter ult hitting 5 targets? STOP IT.

edit: do you guys think the boots movement nerf is to encourage tp scrolls? or discourage tower diving? how many seconds does -10 speed mean for someone walking from top to bot or mid to a side lane?

edit 2: never mind. it's really only 3% or less of difference unless I'm misunderstanding how it works.
 
edit: do you guys think the boots movement nerf is to encourage tp scrolls? or discourage tower diving? how many seconds does -10 speed mean for someone walking from top to bot or mid to a side lane?

It's huge buff to non targeted spells, unless they plan to slow their speed too.

Edit: We'll it isn't HUGE, but it is a buff.
 
the Razor, Pugna and Sniper buffs are pretty big too.

That witchdoctor buff is almost stupefying. Scepter ult hitting 5 targets? STOP IT.

edit: do you guys think the boots movement nerf is to encourage tp scrolls? or discourage tower diving?

i used to play lion/lina a lot in dota1 but i havent play them much in d2. I don't know why


one reason they nerfed the boots is because of the cheaper price. Also, a lot of things do stupid dmg now so bad positioning and over extending could cause more issues
 
Found this on reddit, got a chuckle out of it:

As someone who has played 100+ Crystal Maiden games, these changes are just getting better and better. Here's a comprehensive list of all the buffs since 6.74
in 6.74 the normal courier changed from 170 to 150 gold, and her ultimate's aoe increases by 100
in 6.75 observer wards are on sale for 150 gold, and her ultimate can last 2 seconds longer. The changes in the ultimate aren't huge, but at this point she can buy wards and courier at level 1 and still have enough money for some regen and branches.
in 6.76 brilliance aura is doubled for her, meaning she's walking around with a clarity potion once it's at level 3. Also, normal boots are 50 gold cheaper and all upgraded boots (other than travels) are 5 movespeed slower, which is very important for a slow hero like Crystal Maiden who usually doesn't have upgraded boots for a long time.
In conclusion, it's still better to pick Leshrac or Venomancer.

The last line got me good. CM feels like she is constantly surrounded by pudding, everything she does is so slow.
 
Made a spreadsheet with the numbers. She got a clear cut mid game buff if she can keep her distance in fights:

Drowdamagechart.jpg

DrowDamagechart2.jpg


If you can get someone in her face, she will do consistently less damage now then before. She obviously now has a global presence, which should be really powerful for a push team trying to finish the game fast, and she will be able to farm far easier. Plus, her ult should act as a way to check for invisible heroes.
 
Found this on reddit, got a chuckle out of it:



The last line got me good. CM feels like she is constantly surrounded by pudding, everything she does is so slow.

she's my second most played and one of my most successful. her buff is just butter to me. she's gonna be spammin 'n gankin' all day.


edit: Kirby, I don't understand the last chart. what does it mean? the 3rd column in particular.

edit 2: holy shit, I just realized the trueshot debuff radius is smaller than her actual attack range (375 aura, 625 attack radius). in other words, someone has to run into Drow's chest to or she's going to get double aura bonus on enemy heroes. holeeeeshit. Running INTO a Drow that's spamming frost arrows is like...the last thing anyone wants to do or think about when she starts hitting.

<3 <3 <3 Drow. this is an unmitigated Drow buff. I said goddamn.
 
she's my second most played and one of my most successful. her buff is just butter to me. she's gonna be spammin 'n gankin' all day.


edit: Kirby, I don't understand the last chart. what does it mean? the 3rd column in particular.

edit 2: holy shit, I just realized the trueshot buff is smaller than her actual attack range. in other words, someone has to run into Drow's chest to or she's going to get double aura bonus on enemy heroes. holeeeeshit. Running INTO a Drow that's spamming frost arrows is like...the last thing anyone wants to do or think about when she starts hitting.

<3 <3 <3 Drow

Unless someone has a blink, movement ability not effected by slow,force staff, or just caught her off guard.

Her problem and reason why nobody touches her in upper % games has not been solved, but reward has become a lot more worth the risk.
 
Unless someone has a blink, movement ability not effected by slow,force staff, or just caught her off guard.
Indeed. I mean, in team fights, gonna be a tough proposition for an enemy hero to have to dive through the other 4 teammates to get to her, who should be lingering in the back of the fight, no?

Unless someone has a blink, movement ability not effected by slow,force staff, or just caught her off guard.

Her problem and reason why nobody touches her in upper % games has not been solved, but reward has become a lot more worth the risk.
what's that core problem? Is it still a matter of a lack of escapes? because surely she can flash farm much better now from 6-16, which was a problem before.

Lets say Lich has 100 base damage from int items and levels. Drow's old passive would give him a flat 32% increase on his base damage if he was nearby, giving him 32 bonus damage. Drows new passive requires her to have 124 agility to give range units 32 bonus damage (124*.26).

Basically, while it is now global, she will be giving less bonus damage to heroes then before until late game. Its going to be really nice for push strats though, since she can give all units ranged units bonus damage while she continues to farm elsewhere.

all clear now. thank you.
 
she's my second most played and one of my most successful. her buff is just butter to me. she's gonna be spammin 'n gankin' all day.


edit: Kirby, I don't understand the last chart. what does it mean? the 3rd column in particular.

edit 2: holy shit, I just realized the trueshot debuff radius is smaller than her actual attack range (375 aura, 625 attack radius). in other words, someone has to run into Drow's chest to or she's going to get double aura bonus on enemy heroes. holeeeeshit. Running INTO a Drow that's spamming frost arrows is like...the last thing anyone wants to do or think about when she starts hitting.

<3 <3 <3 Drow. this is an unmitigated Drow buff. I said goddamn.


Lets say Lich has 100 base damage from int items and levels. Drow's old passive would give him a flat 32% increase on his base damage if he was nearby, giving him 32 bonus damage. Drows new passive requires her to have 124 agility to give range units 32 bonus damage (124*.26).

Basically, while it is now global, she will be giving less bonus damage to heroes then before until late game. Its going to be really nice for push strats though, since she can give all units ranged units bonus damage while she continues to farm elsewhere.
 
Skimming over some of the notables (bias inc)...

100px-Centaur_Warchief.png
Centaur
  • Strength growth increased from 2.6 to 3.8
  • Replaced Great Fortitude with a new skill
Stampede:
==========
Grants you and all allied player units on the map max movement speed and zero unit collision for a short duration. Any enemy units you or your allies come into collision with take some damage and get stunned. Enemies can only be affected by stampede impact once.

Duration: 3/4/5
Damage: 100/150/200 + 2x your str
Stun: 1.25 seconds
Stampede Collision AoE: 120

Cooldown: 65
Mancost: 50

Note: Does not affect magic immune enemies
Wondered why they're giving him 2/3rds of a bracer every level, and then I saw it. Global speed and collision stuns as an ultimate. Sounds frankly awesome, and essentially is the rumored Winter Wyvern ultimate (global slow) running in reverse with some bonuses thrown on.


100px-Clockwerk.png
Clockwerk
  • Hookshot now pulls Clockwerk to allies instead of getting blocked by them
  • Hookshot Aghanim's upgraded cooldown decreased from 15 to 12
I've been awaiting these changes for a while, logical and quite a boost to the skill's utility. Combined with his large 6.75 buffs, I think he'll be played (I expect to see more Lifestealer if so).


100px-Crystal_Maiden.png
Crystal Maiden
  • Brilliance Aura has twice the effect on Crystal Maiden
Aggressive CM is best CM. Good buff.


100px-Dark_Seer.png
Dark Seer
  • Vacuum cooldown increased from 19 to 22
Punishment for misuse grows steeper and steeper. Still a core AoE strat hero.


100px-Drow_Ranger.png
Drow Ranger
Trueshot Aura:
==============
Global Aura. Gives you and all allied ranged units a portion of your agility as bonus damage.

Bonus Damage: 14/18/22/26% of your agility as damage

Note: Can be toggled on and off to affect creeps or not
Marksmanship:
=============
Passively provides bonus agility. If there are no nearby enemy heroes, your focus improves and the bonus agility is doubled.

Bonus Agility: 20/30/40 Agility
AOE: 375 (for double bonus)
Yes sir, I like this a hell of a lot. While the percentage bonus is less than it was on the old Trueshot (+6%/+2%/-2%/-8%), this is a pretty sizable buff. It scales better early, and not only can you toggle it off for creeps during your laning phase (doesn't push the lane at all), it's global in scope and can be thrown on allied ranged heroes, ranged creeps, and catapults at a moment's notice. She can farm in safety and buff a push on the other side of the map. Kind've a big deal.

The ult is also quite interesting. Agility-wise, it's a touch better at level 1, the same at level 11, and a fair bit worse at level 16 (+5/0/-20). That AoE is still quite small, to the extent that she can pursue a hero with Frost Arrows and still reap the double agi benefits (provided the player knows how close is too close). When farming away from enemy heroes or managing the standoff distance well, that doubling makes for quite a boost (+25/+30/+20). There is also a small passive benefit that will tip her off to heroes drawing near in the fog of war (will it have a status icon that flips off? that'd be pretty big). Oh, and it goes without saying that the doubling will probably boost the effectiveness of cross-map Trueshot pushing even more. Also worth mentioning is that this changes somewhat the worth of skilling stats: within the AoE, she gains 3.9 agility upon leveling up. Outside the AoE, she gains what amounts to 5.9 agility. Early stats could be really damned handy (they were already).

This will have the effect of amping up her team contribution (not to mention solo farming rate) considerably without requiring her to barrel into melee brawls before she can fend for herself, which should have some measurable effect on her intense early vulnerability. Think this could punch her ticket in at least a few strategies, but time will be the ultimate judge.


100px-Luna.png
Luna
  • Lunar Blessing bonus damage increased from 14/20/26/32 to 14/22/30/38
Not sure if this was needed, but it is nonetheless a moderate improvement to her ability to chase down ailing heroes and finish them. Last hitting will receive the most clearly felt benefit (which was already very strong). Also improves the bouncing glaives a hair.


100px-Magnus.png
Magnus
  • Shockwave distance increased from 700 to 1000
  • Shockwave cooldown decreased from 11/10/9/8 to 10/9/8/7
  • Shockwave cast range increased to match its travel distance (visual thing only)
  • Skewer AoE increased from 95 to 125
  • Skewer range increased from 800 to 1200
  • Skewer now only considers heroes a valid target for dragging in consideration with its unit cap
All improvements I've wanted since his inclusion, his reach has always felt laughably nearsighted to me. Still, I think his ultimate and cleave were reasons enough to earn him inclusion into competitive play on some level, this can only help him in that regard.


100px-Mirana.png
Mirana
  • Elune's Arrow cooldown decreased from 20 to 17
  • Moonlight Shadow manacost decreased from 175 to 75
Arrow buff is nice, but the ult buff is awesome. Have used it enough to know just how badly it can destroy her mana pool if employed with any regularity, 100 mana off the top is a huge boost to its availability.


100px-Necrolyte.png
Necrolyte
  • Heartstopper Aura damage increased from 0.6/0.8/1/1.2% to 0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5%
Fairly sizable buff (0/+0.1/+0.2/+0.3), with the added benefit of not changing the "doesn't suddenly blow up a lane if one early point" balance. Where's my aghs pure damage buff?!


100px-Ogre_Magi.png
Ogre Magi
  • Multicast now increases cast range of Ignite by 150 per level, this is in addition to the existing AoE increase
So at level 6/11/16, Ignite's casting range will accordingly be 850/1000/1150. Massive boost to the skill's chasing or teamfight applications, but no incentive to take it any earlier than you would have otherwise (assuming you actually skilled it at all).

100px-Pugna.png
Pugna
  • Life Drain break threshold range increased from 900 to 1100
  • Nether Ward AoE increased from 700/1000/1300/1600 to 1600
The Nether Ward mana flare damage buff was already monstrous, standardizing the zap range to 1600 and buffing the ult break range is just... wow. I need to play him some more before word gets out and he has his little legs broken.


100px-Rubick.png
Rubick
  • Fade Bolt damage decreased from 75/150/225/300 to 70/140/210/280
Love him to bits, but can't say I didn't see this coming. In terms of damage over range and damage reduction it's still really hard to beat.


100px-Silencer.png
Silencer
  • Global Silence cooldown decreased from 160 to 140
  • Global Silence duration decreased from 3/4.5/6 to 4/5/6
  • Base Intelligence increased by 6
  • Base Damage reduced by 6
  • Curse of the Silent duration rescaled from 5/6/7/8 to 6
  • Curse of the Silent hp drain rescaled from 20/30/40/50 to 20/35/50/65
  • Curse of the Silent mana drain rescaled from 10/15/20/25 to 8/16/24/32
  • Int Steal moved from Last Word back to Glaives of Wisdom
  • Glaives of Wisdom now steals Intelligence from outside of the AOE if Silencer gets the kill
  • Int Steal aoe increased from 850 to the standard 900 aoe range
  • Last Word replaced with new active skill
Last Word:
==========
Targets an enemy unit placing a debuff on it. While the debuff is active, casting any spell casuses the target to become silenced and take damage. If the duration of the debuff runs out without the target casting a spell, it will still take damage and be silenced but also be disarmed.

Debuff Duration: 5

Damage: 150/200/250/300
Silence/Disarm Duration: 3/4/5/6

Cast Range: 900
Cooldown: 36/28/20/12
Manacost: 100

Note: You have basic vision over the last word target while the initial buff is on them
A lot to process, but assuming Intelligence stealing is still passive (seems that way from the wording of some of these points), I think on balance this looks like a buff. Global Silence is available more frequently, lasts longer at the first two levels, Curse deals better damage and drain, and Last Word now is far more aggression-focused. Now serves as a hybrid nuke and silence, as well as a disarm under certain circumstances, and it seems like the added vision lets you chase foes through fog of war far better than before. Good if you can kill with him, worse if you played passively and waited to be jumped on.


100px-Sniper.png
Sniper
  • Assassinate cast range increased from 1500/2000/2500 to 2000/2500/3000
  • Headshot procs cannot be evaded (the entire attack gets through)
  • Headshot chance from 25/30/35/40 to 40
  • Headshot damage from 30/45/60/75 to 15/40/65/90
  • Headshot ministun from 0.01/0.1/0.2/0.2 to 0.25
  • Shrapnel provides vision in the targeted area
  • Shrapnel cast range increased from 1200 to 1800
Better chase, better interrupt power, and now effectively brings an MKB to bear 40% of the time. Think this could be enough to notch him situational appearances, especially against heroes that rely on not being hit by autoattacks (Windrunner, Phantom Assassin, Brewmaster, Arc Warden, Faceless Void[?]).


100px-Treant_Protector.png
Treant Protector
  • Strength growth increased from 2.8 to 3.3
  • Living Armor HP regen increased from 4/6/8/10 to 4/7/10/13
So yeah, for all its hype, Living Armor wasn't nearly the bane it was foretold as becoming. Can definitely see Treant seeing play again, but it remains a matter of a skilled player exercising sublime map awareness to get his money's worth out of the hero.
 
Early game mana drain Lion is becoming more and more viable, you could easily sap an enemy of all their mana in lane.
 
So is Windrunner regarded as being perfectly balanced or something? That's two patches where nothing has changed for her.
 
Jak's nerf is worth mentioning. The ice path delay increase and mana cost mean it's not as easy to spam, which I think was an important change.

also, that AOE buff on Kunkka's splash is...cool.

Eye of the Storm is even stronger than it already was in team fights. A scary proposition.

So is Windrunner regarded as being perfectly balanced or something? That's two patches where nothing has changed for her.

I can't think of anything she needs. I think she's solid as-is.
 
Shackle gets complaints pretty frequently, they could up the incentive to skill her ult early. Only things I can really think of.
 
She's one of the most viable heroes in the game, but her stock is so invested in versatility that it's hard to say where she needs tweaking (shackle shot had some rumoured ministun debuffs, that might be reasonable). I'd say they're reasonably careful with how they balance her.

Early game mana drain Lion is becoming more and more viable, you could easily sap an enemy of all their mana in lane.
The break range is good, but I wouldn't call the ability that good. You'll eat a stun and maybe they'll decide you're too annoying to live. If you want to use it in lane offensively, be sure you're trying to kill the hell out of them first (and even then, may be inadvisable to not be autoattacking).
 
Someone just pointed out, since Drow's passive technically has an active, it may actually be possible for Rubick to steal it. I wonder if it would work like Morphling's morph, and be permanently on if he activate it. Wouldn't be as impressive on him (6 bonus damage to ranged units, all right!), but still could be nice.
 
Someone just pointed out, since Drow's passive technically has an active, it may actually be possible for Rubick to steal it. I wonder if it would work like Morphling's morph, and be permanently on if he activate it. Wouldn't be as impressive on him (6 bonus damage to ranged units, all right!), but still could be nice.

if so, you KNOW every Drow is going to toggle it every time she casts the silence in such matchups. Fuck giving Rubick a free 6 second AOE Silence whenever he wants it.
 
if so, you KNOW every Drow is going to toggle it every time she casts the silence in such matchups. Fuck giving Rubick a free 6 second AOE Silence whenever he wants it.
My thoughts precisely. If he wants a pittance of global Agi-derived damage, he's welcome to it. No silence for you!
 
So the Drow buffs are especially good. Will be fun to see her picked in pro games (and show up more in general.)

My thoughts precisely. If he wants a pittance of global Agi-derived damage, he's welcome to it. No silence for you!

Morph in game - go full Agi, steal Drow's spell, ???.
Profit, maybe
.
 
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