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Dota 2 Beta Thread 3: Gunnar Optiks Required [Faster Loading]

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What are some good hard carries for beginners? I've been playing support heroes but I've kind of had it for now, since I'm only level 2 and it's kind of pointless to support someone who has no idea what they're doing (a.k.a. most of the lanemates I'm paired with).

I just played my first match as Phantom Assassin, and it didn't go very well:
https://dotabuff.com/matches/105047914

The only other hard agility carry I've played was Luna, and she was different because she has good harass in lane. PA does not and I really struggled against the Lina/Omniknight lane that I played against. How do you get good farm without abandoning your lane partner? Whenever I left to kill a jungle camp they'd push my lane up.
 
Ursa is really good for beginners. He has huge damage output with little items. Drow is great, Bounty Hunter is great, Stealth Assassin is great.
 
Luap said:
What are some good hard carries for beginners? I've been playing support heroes but I've kind of had it for now, since I'm only level 2 and it's kind of pointless to support someone who has no idea what they're doing (a.k.a. most of the lanemates I'm paired with).

I just played my first match as Phantom Assassin, and it didn't go very well:
https://dotabuff.com/matches/105047914

The only other hard agility carry I've played was Luna, and she was different because she has good harass in lane. PA does not and I really struggled against the Lina/Omniknight lane that I played against. How do you get good farm without abandoning your lane partner? Whenever I left to kill a jungle camp they'd push my lane up.
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I'd say Sniper is worth trying given the range he can gain with his regular attack and the reach of his ultimate. It's pretty easy to go mid lane with him, harass the other hero, chase them away so they don't get experience, easily deny them.
 
To be honest, I played Drow four times so far and I didn't do well with him. I split those games two a piece.

Teach me how to be OP with her. :)
 
Luap said:
What are some good hard carries for beginners? I've been playing support heroes but I've kind of had it for now, since I'm only level 2 and it's kind of pointless to support someone who has no idea what they're doing (a.k.a. most of the lanemates I'm paired with).

I just played my first match as Phantom Assassin, and it didn't go very well:
https://dotabuff.com/matches/105047914

The only other hard agility carry I've played was Luna, and she was different because she has good harass in lane. PA does not and I really struggled against the Lina/Omniknight lane that I played against. How do you get good farm without abandoning your lane partner? Whenever I left to kill a jungle camp they'd push my lane up.
Click to expand...

Luna is pretty good for beginners I'd say, her range is short and she has no escape, but she is super fast, can catch up on farm very quickly and has great innate damage without too many items (Aura and her nukes). If your lane isn't going well and you're a carry, try to play safe to not die, stay in experience range and last hit only when it's safe. Also, if you're getting harassed a lot, get Tranquil Boots, on any carry. They are fantastic on carries because they give you good movement speed and regeneration to stay in lane for a long time. Also, they are the cheapest of all the upgraded boots.

My current favorite Luna build is: Tranquil Boots, Ring of Aquila, Drum of Endurance and BKB. Afterwards, get a Manta Style, Butterfly and Satanic (if the game goes long). You get Aura at level 1, then 2 points in Lucent Beam, then Aura again and Ultimate on 6. You can then decide if you want to max your aura for stronger early team figths or Glaives for farming.
That is not a farming build, as soon as you have your Drums, you can join fights and kill stuff with your ultimate. It also gives you awesome movement speed.
 
Luap said:
What are some good hard carries for beginners? I've been playing support heroes but I've kind of had it for now, since I'm only level 2 and it's kind of pointless to support someone who has no idea what they're doing (a.k.a. most of the lanemates I'm paired with).

I just played my first match as Phantom Assassin, and it didn't go very well:
https://dotabuff.com/matches/105047914

The only other hard agility carry I've played was Luna, and she was different because she has good harass in lane. PA does not and I really struggled against the Lina/Omniknight lane that I played against. How do you get good farm without abandoning your lane partner? Whenever I left to kill a jungle camp they'd push my lane up.
Click to expand...

Viper is such an easy hero. Melts people down with a few items since his passive is so good.
 
snack said:
To be honest, I played Drow four times so far and I didn't do well with him. I split those games two a piece.

Teach me how to be OP with her. :)
Click to expand...

Max aura first, and use silence frequently, especially in teamfights. I see a lot of Drows that forget they have silence.
 
Artanisix said:
Very strong combo. It's probably one of, if not the strongest dual lane combos in the game. You can't really beat it with your own dual lane.

Your best options are:
a.) Trilane against it. This requires everyone to have serious positional awareness for incoming illuminates. If done correctly, and you have sentries or dust on hand, you can completely cripple and kill the PL and KOTL.
b.) Throw away lane. Lane something that can farm without ever coming close, like Dark Seer. Hope your other lanes dominate.
c.) Scream at your midlane to come sit on top often.

And for future reference, heroes that do fantastic against PL midgame as long as he isn't ridiculously farmed:
Sven
Tiny
Nyx (buy a gem!)
Clinkz (buy a gem!)
Storm Spirit (buy a gem!)

Storm in general is an AMAZING hero against many current top tier picks right now.
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This is some good advice thanks. I very much like the idea of Dark Seer against the combo.
 
dragon knight is good for newbies. with soul ring you can farm easy, you can build pretty much anything on him and he has a good stun. he's also ranged and tanky due to his passive

well bh isn't a carry, but he has an escape mechanism and a way to last hit creeps with jinada. you might wanna try him too.
 
snack said:
Is there a site that shows which heroes play well with each other and which heroes that don't?
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Playdota guides typically have info about what hero is good or poor against. Kind of cumbersome to check every single one, but you could always check guides for characters you're having trouble against.
 
Solo lich is excellent for screwing over hard core kill lanes (PL + KOTL) or tri lanes. Just make sure to ward pull camps and the fogged area next to the lane and stay in exp range + sacrifice. At some point you'll be able to keep the creeps near your tower at all times and deny a creep almost every wave. Make sure to deny the ranged creep if you want the enemy lane to push forward.

You could also counter with your own trilane, if you can talk your team mates into doing it. Something like lina + sven + nyx could easily obliterate pl + kotl.

Go for tranquil boots as well, its the best early game counter to harassment.



I enjoy the fact that dragon knight randomly appears in the top bans for the Chinese meta in that dignitas article.
 
How the hell do people get insane CS with Drow? I swear this is the billionth game I've lost because I can't last hit for shit with her. Her animation takes 20 minutes it feels like and I just either get denied, am too early or too late.
 
I'm honestly surprised solo Lich isn't getting picked up in pro games. I was complaining the other day about him because I got shut down pretty well by him as mid TA in a SD game. The sacrifice denies a huge portion of XP and pushes the lane (towards him), and the practically infinite mana lets him harass a lot with frost blast. Sort of like Magnus in that respect.

I don't think there's much to do if he has enough HP regen unless you gank him (which we attempted to, unsuccessfully). Game snowballed from there.
 
I once solo'd against a Lion and Rubik with Lich and owned them. I made Mjolnir, Scepter, Skadi, Blink that game because I was so over leveled and farmed from kills.
 
So GAF, how is the Sniper for noobs, good or overpowered?
2013012200002.jpg
 
Sniper is terrible for noobs.
Sniper is an extremely squishy carry, so, not only you must perfectly know when to farm or when to teamplay, but you must also have a perfect sense of danger (instinctively knowing when to be careful), because if you die you become even more useless than most other heroes in the same situation.

If you want a good easy ranged carry, play Viper.
 
Hylian7 said:
How the hell do people get insane CS with Drow? I swear this is the billionth game I've lost because I can't last hit for shit with her. Her animation takes 20 minutes it feels like and I just either get denied, am too early or too late.
Click to expand...

I had trouble with her animation too.. It's just something you have to get used to. Sniper is much more responsive.

Also, it seems like the attack speed gloves help a bit as well. I usually get (sorry I'm bad with item names..) wrath mask or whatever it is slippers of agility build into and then buy gloves quickly after that. Gives you a little extra damage and speed early on. The gloves build into Power Treads.
 
Drow has a crap load of damage even early on so it's not that hard to last hit with her. After that you just start farming in lanes and basically auto attack to generate creep kills fast. Attack speed definitely helps racking up those kills.

Sniper is not a bad beginner hero because he has super easy last hitting and you can play from a distance usually out of harms way. You just need to get that Shadow Blade very fast or else you will get ganked. It takes some experience playing with Sniper but he can absolutely own n00bs.
 
Aselith said:
No courier for team and recipe but not the items
Click to expand...
The recipe was for Daedalus i just bought it before getting demon edge

Dahbomb said:
Drow has a crap load of damage even early on so it's not that hard to last hit with her. After that you just start farming in lanes and basically auto attack to generate creep kills fast. Attack speed definitely helps racking up those kills.

Sniper is not a bad beginner hero because he has super easy last hitting and you can play from a distance usually out of harms way. You just need to get that Shadow Blade very fast or else you will get ganked. It takes some experience playing with Sniper but he can absolutely own n00bs.
Click to expand...

Yep, almost every guide i read for Sniper says to get Shadow Blade first.
 
Hylian7 said:
Use Puck or Nyx against him in lane. Last Word can't touch you, at least got Puck.
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then they get orb'd down b/c nyx is melee and puck can't really exchange blows b/c of its horrible BAT. But iirc the last word dmg kicks in before carapace does, as I know for a fact that if naix rages in response to last word the dmg kicks in first
 
Hey dotagaf, after a long wait I am finally apporved to junior member status! I already played an IH, was immensely fun (went 18-3 huskar with two ultra kills woopee). I hope we get to play more matches in the future!

Against silencer, surprisingly Drow works great imo. If he last words you, counter with silence.
 
Sargerus said:
The recipe was for Daedalus i just bought it before getting demon edge
Click to expand...

In most cases you'll want to get the recipe last since you can always transition to building something else if the situation arises. Buying the recipe before getting all the necessary items means you sank gold into something that isn't functionally useful. Whereas if you buy the buildup first you could reap the benefits of the extra stats/damage/etc. until you can afford the recipe to complete your item. Also of note is that you want to buy the more expensive/utility parts first if possible, since you don't know when you might get killed and lose gold.

The exception is something like buying and bringing a soul ring recipe to lane - something that you can finish with items you already have on you and whatever is available from the side shop.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
In most cases you'll want to get the recipe last since you can always transition to building something else if the situation arises. Buying the recipe before getting all the necessary items means you sank gold into something that isn't functionally useful. Whereas if you buy the buildup first you could reap the benefits of the extra stats/damage/etc. until you can afford the recipe to complete your item. Also of note is that you want to buy the more expensive/utility parts first if possible, since you don't know when you might get killed and lose gold.

The exception is something like buying and bringing a soul ring recipe to lane - something that you can finish with items you already have on you and whatever is available from the side shop.
Click to expand...

Usually i leave the recipe for last , but since we were dominating the match i didn't mind buying the recipe first :) Gonna try Viper now as DSix suggested
 
Any inhouses going on tonight? It was full every time I tried last night and I've been looking forward to getting destroyed by gaffers instead of randoms.
 
There are some situations where I get the recipe first. I always get Hand of Midas recipe before the Gloves of Haste when laning, because the gloves on their own do almost nothing for last hitting, and if you have the courier deliver the recipe to you as soon as you have 1400, you don't lose any time that could be going towards the cool down on a Midas kill.

1400 gold, courier delivery, buy gloves from secret shop at 500 = no delay between getting the money and getting the item

500 gold, buy gloves, 1400 gold deliver recipe gives you a delay between finishing the money and being able to use the item, especially if the courier is unavailable, not upgraded, or god forbid both.

I don't follow this if I'm jungling though. Gloves of haste will give you a noticeable increase in jungling speed, particularly on Naix and Prophet, so I always deliver the gloves first.
 
odd_morsel said:
There are some situations where I get the recipe first. I always get Hand of Midas recipe before the Gloves of Haste when laning, because the gloves on their own do almost nothing for last hitting, and if you have the courier deliver the recipe to you as soon as you have 1400, you don't lose any time that could be going towards the cool down on a Midas kill.

1400 gold, courier delivery, buy gloves from secret shop at 500 = no delay between getting the money and getting the item

500 gold, buy gloves, 1400 gold deliver recipe gives you a delay between finishing the money and being able to use the item, especially if the courier is unavailable, not upgraded, or god forbid both.

I don't follow this if I'm jungling though. Gloves of haste will give you a noticeable increase in jungling speed, particularly on Naix and Prophet, so I always deliver the gloves first.
Click to expand...

That's pretty clever. I don't often get Midas (or play heroes who'd want Midas), so I never thought about that before.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
That's pretty clever. I don't often get Midas (or play heroes who'd want Midas), so I never thought about that before.
Click to expand...

I've found myself getting Midas more and more lately, but I like farming heroes so it fits with my playstyle. It takes awhile to pay itself off, but in the meantime you get a really significant exp bonus, and a fat attack speed increase.
 
Masaki_ said:
hey icefrog and valve, nice game you got there, but if you don't do something about PL i might have to stop playing it.
Click to expand...
A good team can utilize a strong 4-1 strategy with PL farming. A lot of factors come into play when you are against a PL. But one thing I do advise is..the earlier you grab that dust, the more motivated you are in ganking that hero.
 
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