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Dota 2 Beta Thread 3: Gunnar Optiks Required [Faster Loading]
- Thread starter Artanisix
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SteveWinwood
Member
I want a link to the pics.
Schweinehund
Member
A direct valve comment on dbr via reddit transcript (http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/17v5xg/gabe_newell_comments_on_dbr/)
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Question: In the Dota 2 Beta, you guys elected not to implement a viewable rating system and recently DotaBuff -- they implemented one and you guys updated it so that they do not have access to that data anymore unless the player allows it. I was wondering why you guys did it, and what's your take on that and whether there will be a rating system implemented.
Answer: The rating system they were using was kinda crappy. We think that the idea is fine, it was just lousy implementation. And the changes that we made were specifically to give users more control over how their data work. And the DotaBuff guys sorta freaked out about it. We still think we're sorta making the right decisions on both of those, which is trying to provide a different, more robust mechanism so people know how well they play and also making sure that people don't feel like... So one of the important characteristics of the system is how secure it feels to people. And that's true of identities and true of properties and things like that. It's something that we're always conscious of -- that we want to build systems that feel trustworthy to people. Because there are actually a lot of real economic values that have implications in a specific and predictable fashion. And that includes us and what we allow or enable participants in the system to do. That's kind of a long-winded way of saying we think we did the right thing
Question: Will you implement a better rating system directly to Dota 2?
Answer: Oh, Yeah. We are in the process of doing that. We think that the one we have right now which DotaBuff is using is actually a crappy one that we did before we had a better idea of how to do it. We want people to add value because that's what we think is the key to successful games going forward. To enable people to do stuff like adding value by generating replays, commentaries of replays, or coming up with clever ways of evaluating players or predicting which team will win. All those, to us, look like content creation. All of them, look to us, like things we have to fit within a framework that we're properly designing.
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It's as I had thought, they weren't really happy with their mmr so they didn't want to make it a public thing.
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Question: In the Dota 2 Beta, you guys elected not to implement a viewable rating system and recently DotaBuff -- they implemented one and you guys updated it so that they do not have access to that data anymore unless the player allows it. I was wondering why you guys did it, and what's your take on that and whether there will be a rating system implemented.
Answer: The rating system they were using was kinda crappy. We think that the idea is fine, it was just lousy implementation. And the changes that we made were specifically to give users more control over how their data work. And the DotaBuff guys sorta freaked out about it. We still think we're sorta making the right decisions on both of those, which is trying to provide a different, more robust mechanism so people know how well they play and also making sure that people don't feel like... So one of the important characteristics of the system is how secure it feels to people. And that's true of identities and true of properties and things like that. It's something that we're always conscious of -- that we want to build systems that feel trustworthy to people. Because there are actually a lot of real economic values that have implications in a specific and predictable fashion. And that includes us and what we allow or enable participants in the system to do. That's kind of a long-winded way of saying we think we did the right thing
Question: Will you implement a better rating system directly to Dota 2?
Answer: Oh, Yeah. We are in the process of doing that. We think that the one we have right now which DotaBuff is using is actually a crappy one that we did before we had a better idea of how to do it. We want people to add value because that's what we think is the key to successful games going forward. To enable people to do stuff like adding value by generating replays, commentaries of replays, or coming up with clever ways of evaluating players or predicting which team will win. All those, to us, look like content creation. All of them, look to us, like things we have to fit within a framework that we're properly designing.
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It's as I had thought, they weren't really happy with their mmr so they didn't want to make it a public thing.
Didn't Gabe say the same thing last week?
Yea I really wanted that Lina hat, opened 5 chests and only got swords I don't want. (Sven/Jugg swords) Pretty annoying. But Valve makes the money from the keys this way.
They are not using anybodies. Dotabuffs ranking is shut down. Valve only has their matchmaking ranking for them selfs. Both are crappy.
What's hard to understand, Dotabuff was generating their rating similar to Valve and Valve thought it was bad.
They are using Valves system now though, they're not shut down.
Dotabuff hated Valves API and made their own while Valve straight up abandoned theirs, then Valve made everyones info private and relaunched their shitty API and Dotabuff was forced to use theirs. Just find it funny Valve didn't just adopt DB's api system and forced them to scrap the whole thing.
If I understood it correctly. It was even more of a ducktaped together solution using bots and other iffy methods to gain the information they required. You make it sound like it was some kind of refined feature they had come up with. What it really sounds like is something shoe horned on to an already shakey WIP API.
Edit: This is coming from my rudimentary understanding of what was/is there at the moment.
The RANKING has stopped. Not the stats no.
From what I know, DB put a lot of work into it's system, I'm not sure if it was ducktapped together from Valve's API because they got global rankings from it along with even chat tracking, which seems head and shoulders from what they claimed Valves API could do.
Yeah, everyone being private killed the ranking from ever happening again, though the whole DBR thing didn't effect me because seeing an extra number won't explain why the supports don't support etc. etc.
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
People were talking about ratings not APIs. Valve thought the rating system Dotabuff came up with was bad. They also think their own ratings are bad and are working on a better system. I don't see anything wrong with that.
If they have data showing the DBR does not reflect actual player skill well enough AND they are already working on a better system, why would DBR be relevant to anyone/why should they even care?
Also, as far as I know Dotabuff did not make their own API (and technically that terminology does not make a lot of sense considering it's not even their game) they just found a way to get around using Valve's API in order to get ahead of the competition. From a software development viewpoint Valve would have to be absolutely nuts to allow them to keep doing that.
As I said before if I understand correctly (much of this is going over my head but I've been trying my best to fill in the gaps)
You're not far off what Matt said when he tried to explain what happened. As you said, they were not using their own API but bots to datamine the information that was present in the game such as kills, deaths etc you'd find from replays they had downloaded which was putting an extreme amount of pressure upon the unfinished backend. They want people to be able to extract that kind of information from the API in a way which won't crush the framework they have in place.
But DotaBuff being completely unprofessional, rather than explaining what had happened, put up an sensationalist title poorly explaining what had happened. People took this at face value and rather than attempting to understand how things were glued together just grabbed the nearest pitchfork and ran for the forums.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Okay, gonna fish for ideas here since I'm haven't really hit any inspiration today myself. Looking to make a one-off item preferably on a hero underrepresented in the workshop. Weapon probably works best for this, but something like a hat might also be suitable.
I specify one-off (as in something that would be distinctive enough on its own) because I want to make a single nice thing that's relatively simple and get it submitted (and hopefully accepted) before I would want to spend time working on a full set which would take longer. All I came up with today so far was an idea for a (possibly Lina) bracer, but just a single piece of armor like that doesn't really fit my criteria.
Any suggestions?
I specify one-off (as in something that would be distinctive enough on its own) because I want to make a single nice thing that's relatively simple and get it submitted (and hopefully accepted) before I would want to spend time working on a full set which would take longer. All I came up with today so far was an idea for a (possibly Lina) bracer, but just a single piece of armor like that doesn't really fit my criteria.
Any suggestions?
tsunami643
Member
Leshrac antlers.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
If you're going to make a single item then you should probably make a weapon. A piece of gear like a bracer is better left for a full hero set, unless you're planning on doing something pretty simple that would fit in with any other set. You would probably have more success with a weapon that could go with a lot of different armor sets than a single bracer that would get little attention in comparison.
My two cents, at least.
My two cents, at least.
Off the top of my head and these are things I would probably buy: Earthshaker totem (they'll probably revamp him soon though so it might not get it), Clockwerks Mace, Lycans wolves, CKs Sword and horse, Vipers wings, Rikis horns/weapons, Pucks wings, Rubicks Staff and Outworlds Staff.
1/2 Key.
I'd love some items for Riki.. problem is, I don't really know how you'd make one that didn't look strange, given his character design. Seems like he would be out of place in just about anything else.
Maybe something stealthy, like a rogueish cloak and hood or something, but then I think he'd look like a stuffed animal dressed up.. and it'd have to be a whole set to look right.
in two weeks you should be pretty happy
shira
Member
Dr Fate helm for pl
Clown mask for pudge
Hunter Killer veno skin
Dem glowing lightsaber swords and GOW armor lights.
Bat for doom
Use the original ninja Stealth Assasin skin someone plz. The midget satyr looks horrible
Dreams-Visions
Member
givin the people what they want.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
Valve really seems to prefer putting you on win/loss streaks. Or maybe it's just me...
Does anyone know how the matchmaking actually works? Was it a coincidence that my best game ever (Zeus) was followed by my worst game shortly afterward (Shadow Shaman)?
Does anyone know how the matchmaking actually works? Was it a coincidence that my best game ever (Zeus) was followed by my worst game shortly afterward (Shadow Shaman)?
Schweinehund
Member
A cat o' nine tails for kunkka with a custom animation and whip sound effect
.Hoods and masks seem to be the most popular one off items.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Oh man. Rubick RP steal is too good. Got it off twice and won us the game. One was also off the back of a smoke gank that I initiated.
Also, my Rubick was ballin' and went Atos.
Laning phase was pretty meh on my part though due to getting used to me new mouse. Lots of slugfests. We had a lot of 3 for 4 and 4 for 4s.
Also, my Rubick was ballin' and went Atos.
Laning phase was pretty meh on my part though due to getting used to me new mouse. Lots of slugfests. We had a lot of 3 for 4 and 4 for 4s.
That golem is no joke now.
balladofwindfishes
Member
it's too bad his channeling spell is pretty awful. It feels like he's a hero with only 3 spells.
It really needs to not be a channeling spell. Maybe make it a bit weaker, but let him throw it down like Enigma.
Dreams-Visions
Member
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
All right, so I think I have a solid idea for a Rubick staff. Have bits of it drawn out, but I'm gonna bust out my modeling clay to experiment before committing to it in Maya.
Yeah, Leshrac's got no love whatsoever.
I can't find the specific fix you're referring to but I do see this: current top 10.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I see it now. Cool info. Now that I look at it, I'm over 60% in my win rate with him too.
It is indeed very difficult to lose with these heroes. Zeus is such a pub stomper.
edit: Magnus @ only 48%? the fuck?
It is indeed very difficult to lose with these heroes. Zeus is such a pub stomper.
edit: Magnus @ only 48%? the fuck?
It never procced, ever.
I never knew Roshan had a slam move either until they fixed it.
Imp the Dimp
Member
His ult is absolutely obnoxious. He kills you everytime you're low on health without breaking a sweat or requiring any kind of skill.
Dreams-Visions
Member
He's the definition of a pub stomper. If you don't gank him early and often, he'll roll your team, ez and with minimal effort. Put him on a team with Tide and Sven for facerolling.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Oh Zeus got a health increase? I didn't realize he got any bumps.
minimal map awareness is all that's needed. Though I tend to use the ult as part of the initiation effort these days. Using it at the end sucks (unless it's just on CD or I'm disabled).
He got a small strength gain buff
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
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