wadafuq. Idk how many times i've nearly gouged my eyes out at seeing omni NOT get repel at level 1. There are so little instances where a 80 heal/60 dmg in a small aoe spell has been more important then absolute spell-immunity for 6 seconds (because at level 1 no one has an active spell that goes through repel par troll warlord). Omniknight is played in a defensive manner, and as such repel is one of the best anti-ganking spells (among other level 1 cockblocks like fissure) and by no means should be ignored for "omg level 1 purification its a heal". So unless you can mathcraft me a reason why you would go purification at level 1 over repel, don't give bad advice please.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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wadafuq. Idk how many times i've nearly gouged my eyes out at seeing omni NOT get repel at level 1. There are so little instances where a 80 heal/60 dmg in a small aoe spell has been more important then absolute spell-immunity for 6 seconds (because at level 1 no one has an active spell that goes through repel par troll warlord). Omniknight is played in a defensive manner, and as such repel is one of the best anti-ganking spells (among other level 1 cockblocks like fissure) and by no means should be ignored for "omg level 1 purification its a heal". So unless you can mathcraft me a reason why you would go purification at level 1 over repel, don't give bad advice please.
I normally just wait till I get in lane, and go "Is there any spell I can block or dispel with Repel?"
I like to have both Heal and Repel at level 2 is what I should of said.
Also, just to point out, it is 90 heal/90 damage. Omni's Heal is Pure. (Also, it does 90 at level 1)
I like to have both Heal and Repel at level 2 is what I should of said.
Also, just to point out, it is 90 heal/90 damage. Omni's Heal is Pure. (Also, it does 90 at level 1)
tsunami643
Member
No one is reading the OP because this thread isn't tagged as an |OT|.
I would say no one is reading it because it is just a wall of text that doesn't convey the right info.
mtw versus dts - http://www.joindota.com/en/livestreams/396-mtw-synderen
I know Tobi's gone off to America for a week, but it's odd that there isn't a commentator for this. Ah well, always interesting to see a pro draft from the perspective of the drafters.
I know Tobi's gone off to America for a week, but it's odd that there isn't a commentator for this. Ah well, always interesting to see a pro draft from the perspective of the drafters.
Poor peppy, he was the only one other than Synderen who knew what he was doing on the old mtw roster. Syn on Nature's Prophet, I know he often plays it, but he's far from the best Furion in the pro-scene. I think that's why team's often let NP through after the first ban phase vs Mtw.
Watch as his NP lights up the world in this game to prove me wrong.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
This is me being a noob, not disagreeing with your advice. But how likely is it really for the enemy team to try to gank you or your lane partner at level 1, as opposed to the opportunity to deal 90 straight up damage to one of your lane opponents, and healing your ally in the process?
I really haven't played that many games, but I've never encountered the risk of being ganked at level 1 by a hero that would be foiled with Repel. In my experience if they're going to try that, Purify would be a pretty good way to turn it around and deal heavy damage while keeping yourself or the gank target alive, potentially killing the ganker. Obviously this is situational if said ganker is someone with an extremely effective silence, magic-based stun or disable.
I really haven't played that many games, but I've never encountered the risk of being ganked at level 1 by a hero that would be foiled with Repel. In my experience if they're going to try that, Purify would be a pretty good way to turn it around and deal heavy damage while keeping yourself or the gank target alive, potentially killing the ganker. Obviously this is situational if said ganker is someone with an extremely effective silence, magic-based stun or disable.
Gully State
Member
Is Tobi really going to visit Valve?
This is my first time watching from a teams perspective and I'm really surprised by they way they talk to each other, not the well oiled machine I imagined them to be at all.
Yep, likely Defense 2 and Invitational 2 discussions as well.
That's because they reformed 1 week ago at best. It is not a well oiled machine =P
Yes, he was talking about it a while back and left today. Figure he'll get some International II details, do some interviews, maybe do a bit for that Dota documentary Valve was wanting to do.
@Pai Pai Master: Level 1 Repel saves a life. Level 1 Purification might not, given it's worth all of two autoattacks or one level 1 nuke. Stopping further stuns and nukes goes much further, given it's unlikely they can bring the target down with autoattacks alone if you're fast on your feet.
@Pai Pai Master: Level 1 Repel saves a life. Level 1 Purification might not, given it's worth all of two autoattacks or one level 1 nuke. Stopping further stuns and nukes goes much further, given it's unlikely they can bring the target down with autoattacks alone if you're fast on your feet.
Lol, this is quite tame compared to some teams (ie Mouz). For dysfunctional, look under teams with a ton of dead air and no communication about strategy.
Schweinehund
Member
I like to play omni on teams that are willing to go and push hard or force early team fights. He's perfect for tower diving with his ult, and his heal does insane damage early on. I only put one point in repel early, then max q then e. But if you're in a game where you want to drag it out (ie, you have morph or some other ranged hard carry) you shouldn't level degen because it affects creeps and will push the lane. Omni shines 10-30 minutes into the game in my opinion.
I also think he is garbage without atleast some item. I like drums/vlads on him, arcane boots, eul's, maybe even a heaven's halberd. It would go perfect on him I think, give him survivability and anti carry capabilities.
He's so good with pudge or huskarr, or ursa, or just about anyone that shines once they get bkb, or anyone that can force enemies to stand still so they can get hit by your heal's damage.
I wish it were like HoN in some ways that you can deactivate auras like degen. I'm sure some dota purists would disagree.
I also think he is garbage without atleast some item. I like drums/vlads on him, arcane boots, eul's, maybe even a heaven's halberd. It would go perfect on him I think, give him survivability and anti carry capabilities.
He's so good with pudge or huskarr, or ursa, or just about anyone that shines once they get bkb, or anyone that can force enemies to stand still so they can get hit by your heal's damage.
I wish it were like HoN in some ways that you can deactivate auras like degen. I'm sure some dota purists would disagree.
because most ganks that happen at level 1 are due to stuns/magical damage. Very seldom will it be the case where first blood is due to a bunch of right clicks at level 1. If you're gonna put omni in a dual lane, don't use him aggresively at level 1, because there's many better heroes for that.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Cool, thanks so much for the info. That's definitely a good point about early ganks being due to stuns/magic. Makes a lot more sense to me now. Maybe it's just because of my current skill level and lack of experience that I'm really not seeing any of these instances, but as I play more I'll definitely keep all of that in mind.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
All my friends play LoL. 
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Make new better friends. Id be happy to play with you =)All my friends play LoL.
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
RukusProvider
Banned
All my friends play LoL.
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
They're both quite different, I'd say. Stick to the one you get the most personal enjoyment out of.
LoL for me, while fun, doesn't have the same level of tension that a Dota game provides.
The highs from winning and the lows from losing in Dota are not really comparable to other games.
All my friends play LoL.
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
lol is for trash noobs.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
Ya, risk and reward in Dota is much higher. Also I feel like the characters are more unique. In LoL all characters feel like they share atleast one or two spells that are exactly the same.
Fake edit: Anyone up for a Dota 2 game right now?
Yeah, I agree. That's what I'm aiming to fix (or at least try to). And yes to answer your other question, I'm considering cutting up the carry and support sections into what sort of heroes they are since the hero pool is so diverse. It won't be perfect, but it'll give a good idea to new players about what they're dealing with.
Togglesworlh
Banned
All my friends play LoL.
Remind me again why I should stick to Dota 2, please.
I use LoL as a wind-down game. I do nothing but troll in it.
That's why you should stick to Dota 2.
Dreams-Visions
Member
such is the life of a pubber. you just have to decide if your priority is to win (presumably with characters you know and are good or can carry a game with), or if you want to lean new characters or get better with your average characters...which may mean depending on other pubbers to perform their roles well.
I choose the later. At this point, I couldn't care less about winning/losing, as I already got my satisfaction of going over .500. Now I'm only interested in seeing how many characters I can get to a Performance level of 5.
I have 5 there now, with 3 more above level 4. Winning/losing matches isn't something I can always control, but my individual performance usually is. Even when losing, I can gain in my performance bar, so that's what I play for now. I like it better this way, as I don't feel frustrated when a teammate randoms Doombringer, refuses to repick, and proceeds to feed the entire game as what just happened in my last game
we won because of a boss Drow and me playing a boss Shaman. Why is Shaman so fucking good? dem disables, nuke and wards are just god-tier
Dreams-Visions
Member
tobi needs to work on his fashion.
As for Tide, maybe I need to try him again. I really disliked the Tide experience...but by the time i tried him, I was really used to more complicated, mostly range heros already, so it felt really uncomfortable.
Gully State
Member
Well how'd you play him? Personal preference plays a part as well...
Togglesworlh
Banned
Tide is amazing.
This is an undeniable fact.
This is an undeniable fact.
I played Tidehunter once and sucked. I'll try him again later though because I've seen him consistently wreck.
I'm trying to play all heroes at least once, and I'm making my way through the radiant side.
Clockwerk: Really didn't like this guy. Slow as hell and I could never get his ult to work. His global rocket move is kind of funny for trolling though.
Alchemist: I love his stun and his ability to easily rack up coin. Plus ult with hyperstone is crazy fun.
Mirana: I liked her arrow stun, although I botched it several times. Her moves have such long cool down though. My team pulled off some good ganks thanks to her ult.
Antimage: This guy is a lot of fun, I can see why people love/hate him. Blink is such a fun move to abuse. I actually did pretty well at first, going 6/0, but we couldn't get anything together later in the game and we got smashed and I ended up going something like 7/5/3.
I'm probably going to try Drow next. Spam frost arrows for victory, right?
I'm trying to play all heroes at least once, and I'm making my way through the radiant side.
Clockwerk: Really didn't like this guy. Slow as hell and I could never get his ult to work. His global rocket move is kind of funny for trolling though.
Alchemist: I love his stun and his ability to easily rack up coin. Plus ult with hyperstone is crazy fun.
Mirana: I liked her arrow stun, although I botched it several times. Her moves have such long cool down though. My team pulled off some good ganks thanks to her ult.
Antimage: This guy is a lot of fun, I can see why people love/hate him. Blink is such a fun move to abuse. I actually did pretty well at first, going 6/0, but we couldn't get anything together later in the game and we got smashed and I ended up going something like 7/5/3.
I'm probably going to try Drow next. Spam frost arrows for victory, right?
Yes, but make sure you abuse the hell outta silence or you will die a terrible terrible death. (At least it'll be quick)
Drow is also the only hero where I usually take the Daedalus, I've had a lot of people disagree on that, but I just can't imagine being able to carry without it.
Technosteve
Banned
Tide this is what I get on tide,
Start
Stout shield tangos gauntlets and iron branches
Level up gush and Smash put a point in to kraken shell when you have at least 1000 health. Tide is very mana dependent so rush to get arcane boots or Urn so you got to be judicious with gushes.
Mid game
arcane boots, vanguard maybe urn since you will be in the middle of every fight and rack up charges, pipe or mek depending on other teams comp, BKB depending if they are smart and disabling you every fight.
If its going to be an hour long game
Blink dagger, refresher orb
If they let you farm lol, battle fury, heart, mask of madness (lol)
I play aggressive depending if the lane is against melee Heros then you will be one annoying fuck. Just walk in range use anchor smash and walk out. Early game it does alot damage and makes their attacks worthless. You generally play as a giant dick vs melee Heros. Against range it's a bit harder you will have to arrange for your lane partner to use a disable when you gush and then you have to get in position to body block his escape. the one thing you need to know is early game you can take a lot of damage but you have no escape mechanism so if playing against a lane that has serious disables play conservative.
Smoke is also a great item to have if you don't have blink dagger since in team fights you need to initiate the best way to position is to be cloaked. After ravage you need to also prioritize your kills you need to anchor smash the carries and right click down the squishest enemy hero. With refresher orb you can time your second ravage to kill steal every thing.
I find tide alot of fun because of the amount of health he has he is a very forgiving hero to play.
Start
Stout shield tangos gauntlets and iron branches
Level up gush and Smash put a point in to kraken shell when you have at least 1000 health. Tide is very mana dependent so rush to get arcane boots or Urn so you got to be judicious with gushes.
Mid game
arcane boots, vanguard maybe urn since you will be in the middle of every fight and rack up charges, pipe or mek depending on other teams comp, BKB depending if they are smart and disabling you every fight.
If its going to be an hour long game
Blink dagger, refresher orb
If they let you farm lol, battle fury, heart, mask of madness (lol)
I play aggressive depending if the lane is against melee Heros then you will be one annoying fuck. Just walk in range use anchor smash and walk out. Early game it does alot damage and makes their attacks worthless. You generally play as a giant dick vs melee Heros. Against range it's a bit harder you will have to arrange for your lane partner to use a disable when you gush and then you have to get in position to body block his escape. the one thing you need to know is early game you can take a lot of damage but you have no escape mechanism so if playing against a lane that has serious disables play conservative.
Smoke is also a great item to have if you don't have blink dagger since in team fights you need to initiate the best way to position is to be cloaked. After ravage you need to also prioritize your kills you need to anchor smash the carries and right click down the squishest enemy hero. With refresher orb you can time your second ravage to kill steal every thing.
I find tide alot of fun because of the amount of health he has he is a very forgiving hero to play.
Technosteve
Banned
Forkball expect to die alot with Drow, she is a glass cannon with no escape mechanism. Dotagaf will look down on you (or was that Meeru) for getting the cloak dagger but it will let you run away.
I believe it does, partially. If the Vanguard procs Kraken Shell will not. So you have a 60% chance of blocking 40 damage, otherwise you block 28 damage. It averages out to about 35 damage blocked per hit with Vanguard and maxed Kraken Shell, which in my opinion isn't worth it at all. A pipe is a much better item to go for.
Technosteve
Banned
I thought it did, since vanguard is % chance to block and kraken shell is 100% I think kraken kicks in when vanguard doesn't?
Schweinehund
Member
I don't know why people don't mention this whenever advising about drow...
Orb walking is absolutely crucial to being a successful drow.
A new players would know nothing about orb walking and would walk away thinking someone like viper or drow sucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgDcwi08Y0
I can't find dota 2 footage of orb walking, but I'll describe the best I can.
You manually cast your orb (frost arrow) on the target, as soon as the arrow is loosed, you move toward your target and do the process again. So basically you're getting in as many arrows as you can before your target gets away. It's crucial on drow, especially if you level frost arrow to max first and do a ganking build.
You can do the same thing on clinkz or od or viper, but its most important on viper and drow.
Orb walking is absolutely crucial to being a successful drow.
A new players would know nothing about orb walking and would walk away thinking someone like viper or drow sucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgDcwi08Y0
I can't find dota 2 footage of orb walking, but I'll describe the best I can.
You manually cast your orb (frost arrow) on the target, as soon as the arrow is loosed, you move toward your target and do the process again. So basically you're getting in as many arrows as you can before your target gets away. It's crucial on drow, especially if you level frost arrow to max first and do a ganking build.
You can do the same thing on clinkz or od or viper, but its most important on viper and drow.
wakajawaka
Member
Nice to see some people learning Dota like me, I got the feeling that everyone were pros already.
I'm playing mostly solo bot games and some co-op bot games for now, as I feel really noob. I'm reading all the noob guides and some of the heros that I pick. For now my favourites are mostly support. VS, Dazzle, Lich... and it was fun playing Zeus and spam bolts everywhere. I really have to try Omninight.
Today I played a coop with a few noobs like me, but someone randomed lifestealer and he really kicked ass. He did not really need my help, but I just sticked to his ass all the game healing and buffing him, slowing the escaping victims... felt good. The only skill that I have no clue of a proper use is Shallow Grave. Most of the time I just panick when see that battles are going bad and forget to cast it, and other times it doesnt save from death, lol.
If another noobs want someone to play coops or anything just add me, steam id: "juanmuto".
I'm playing mostly solo bot games and some co-op bot games for now, as I feel really noob. I'm reading all the noob guides and some of the heros that I pick. For now my favourites are mostly support. VS, Dazzle, Lich... and it was fun playing Zeus and spam bolts everywhere. I really have to try Omninight.
Today I played a coop with a few noobs like me, but someone randomed lifestealer and he really kicked ass. He did not really need my help, but I just sticked to his ass all the game healing and buffing him, slowing the escaping victims... felt good. The only skill that I have no clue of a proper use is Shallow Grave. Most of the time I just panick when see that battles are going bad and forget to cast it, and other times it doesnt save from death, lol.
If another noobs want someone to play coops or anything just add me, steam id: "juanmuto".
In every case, the % does not matter. You should not go Vanguard on Kraken, he does not need it.
Use the same money to buy a Blink Dagger after your Arcane Boots ; it's a core item that he should absolutely have in every game, way moreso than Vanguard. THEN go for Mek or Pipe.
Use the same money to buy a Blink Dagger after your Arcane Boots ; it's a core item that he should absolutely have in every game, way moreso than Vanguard. THEN go for Mek or Pipe.
Gully State
Member
Positioning
There are some really good concepts that this guy brings up. Especially his definition on the role of heroes that are tanky. Tanky heroes aren't damage sponges but rather the hero you want to position b/t the enemy team and the rest of your team so that if they initiate on you, they catch the guy most likely to survive after the first wave of spells.
There are some really good concepts that this guy brings up. Especially his definition on the role of heroes that are tanky. Tanky heroes aren't damage sponges but rather the hero you want to position b/t the enemy team and the rest of your team so that if they initiate on you, they catch the guy most likely to survive after the first wave of spells.
VanillaPMP
Neo Member
It didn't in dota, but it does in dota2. Its a pretty good item if you going for a semi-carry tide.
a lot of people don't know this and set Frost to autocast then complain when that drow is a "shitty auto attack" hero. Can't stress how good orb walking is. Makes drow so much better.
True fact. I find it amusing when I'm playing Drow and someone says "Set frost arrow to autocast noob!"
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