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Dragon Ball Z: Revival of F Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter munchie64
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Because he doesn't have Goku's foresight or insight when it comes to improving. The only thing on Vegeta's mind when training is to get stronger. That's why, after 2 years of training, Vegeta achieves this form:
Which while powerful and speedy, ends up being incredibly taxing on the user. It's simply no good in a prolonged fight, which makes it useless against opponents that can't be beaten in 1 or 2 blows.
On the other hand, Goku achieves this form after 1 year of training:
This form doesn't strictly increase Goku's power, but it makes it so that energy consumption while in Super Saiyan mode is next to nill. There's also the fact that saiyans typically lose themselves to rage when you go Super Saiyan, but that form let's you keep a clear mind when fighting (hence Goku/Gohan's softer expressions). This form is the reason why Goku and Gohan were much stronger than Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell saga.
It's Goku's approach to fighting and training that will always makes him superior to Vegeta in my eyes.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I wonder why Ultimate SSJ was so slow. I remember when Trunks was massive and he couldn't fight very well.
I don't see the point where Goku is in God form. To me he needs something. The red looks identical to his kaoken attack and his adjusted ascended sayian form from Lord Slug.
Vegeta has sacrifice and rage. Two qualities that probably never helped him. He even cheated to reach SSJ4. His body can handle it, but it's his anger. Too bad he can't reach his own anger form. The sayian race has evolved to that extent IMO.
I think the animators of these new films are being too kind. It slows down progression IMO. I'd like a darker tone, but apparently they want to hit a large audience with these films. To me the films 1-13 are more grounded to being a conglomerate archive. The newer films feel like OVAs or their TV specials.
I don't believe the new films are better. I think they look good, but a lot of them take off like the Broly film where Trunks and Goten are going at it in the woods. You aren't hinting at anything new except a full cast of characters that are alive.
It's extemely kind hearted. I want this film to be dark. But remember how fast it was when Frieza came back? He got killed in two (3) other scenarios. I'm hoping this opens him up a bit better.
I don't see the point where Goku is in God form. To me he needs something. The red looks identical to his kaoken attack and his adjusted ascended sayian form from Lord Slug.
Vegeta has sacrifice and rage. Two qualities that probably never helped him. He even cheated to reach SSJ4. His body can handle it, but it's his anger. Too bad he can't reach his own anger form. The sayian race has evolved to that extent IMO.
I think the animators of these new films are being too kind. It slows down progression IMO. I'd like a darker tone, but apparently they want to hit a large audience with these films. To me the films 1-13 are more grounded to being a conglomerate archive. The newer films feel like OVAs or their TV specials.
I don't believe the new films are better. I think they look good, but a lot of them take off like the Broly film where Trunks and Goten are going at it in the woods. You aren't hinting at anything new except a full cast of characters that are alive.
It's extemely kind hearted. I want this film to be dark. But remember how fast it was when Frieza came back? He got killed in two (3) other scenarios. I'm hoping this opens him up a bit better.
The Silver
Member
hear I think the lack of overbearing music makes the part where he blows up the audience better, you can more clearly hear the screams and you get a better sense of what an evil thing Vegeta did.
To be fair most of the characters have the same face.
Apparently BoG was darker at the start and involved Beerus corrupting the Saiyans to explain why they were all dicks.
When Toriyama became more involved, he changed the tone and got rid of that plot point.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
He's just more powerful. He doesn't do anything else IMO. He isn't scary because he's a lot like Fat Buu was when he started talking. I could even see them as friends. It's like parrying Goku and MewTwo except they shouldn't be fighting. What's weird is having Freiza just appear and having Beerus just looking down on it all or asleep? You have to wonder what the intentions of them all are. Is the entire cast going to just watch from their leisure days out in the sun? That's been the situation lately.
I'm not trying to bag on it as much as I am. They are enjoyable to watch, but I don't want to see Frieza in a predictable portrayal. I'd like to see him do more than gloat about being back on earth.
i don't recall any statements or scenes about Super Vegeta's form being taxing on him at all. He handidly beats Semi perfect cell with it and no signs of tiring. Vs Perfect Cell he simply gets outmatched and beaten down. All it really says that form isn't very powerful compared to how Gohan/Goku came out of the HTC.
Unknown One
Member
Ultra SSJ is more slanted towards power, while regular SSJ is balanced. Goku knew it was the best path, so he did his best to improve on all aspect of it. Ultra will always sacrifice potential speed for power.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
I know that, my point was, that Vegeta trained only one year to get the form above, after Goku walked out in the always on mode and told vegeta he was stronger than him, and then powered up for korAN, vegeta should have used the extra year to train like Goku did, but he didn't. And i can't for the life of me know why.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Right because that happened after Trunks iirc when Goku was in the room of spirit and time. I just wondered about abilities and Kai. He obviously can form a powerful attack in a frail state, but to me they'd be able to attack with sheer power.
Obviously Trunks had no chance at all and he didn't really go beyond that point.
It's more that the form Goku came up with used less stamina than even the regular SSJ form.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
I recall there was a form which Trunks achieved as SSJ where he bulks up like crazy but it had the huge disadvantage of slowing him down, someone during the show comments that Vegeta was able to achieve it but didn't bother due to that specific limitation.
I'd love to know where these characters stand now in terms of power during this movie. A lot of shit I didn't think about is blowing my mind now such as Gohan being the strongest character in the Buu Saga when I thought Goku was strongest with Vegeta Second up. Seeing as though Vegeta achieved SSJ God he has surpassed SSJ3 but that's it, everyone else is so behind the pack that Vegeta or Goku farting on them would send others flying to their graves.
Vegeta fans have it bad but at least he shines in this film a little, I feel bad for people that like any other character! Toriyama has straight up dismissed anyone at this point that is not Goku or Vegete.
I'd love to know where these characters stand now in terms of power during this movie. A lot of shit I didn't think about is blowing my mind now such as Gohan being the strongest character in the Buu Saga when I thought Goku was strongest with Vegeta Second up. Seeing as though Vegeta achieved SSJ God he has surpassed SSJ3 but that's it, everyone else is so behind the pack that Vegeta or Goku farting on them would send others flying to their graves.
Vegeta fans have it bad but at least he shines in this film a little, I feel bad for people that like any other character! Toriyama has straight up dismissed anyone at this point that is not Goku or Vegete.
RedAssedApe
Banned
was hoping when you guys brought up time travel that this would somehow involve future trunks coming back and kicking freeza's ass again...instead...this...
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
That was Ultra SSJ Future Trunks when he was fighting Cell. He was pretty powerful, but not as powerful as SSJ2 Gohan.
I was told that SSJ4 isn't the real term to use. It was a surpressed Oozuru form. The correct term is Super Goku 4. That's just another way of saying SSJ4, right? I was told this back in 2000. Right when we were all using our 56k modems to download episodes. A few of the people had GT tshirts, but this was when the series was at its height. Goku had not gone SSJ1 in NA yet
So not only does Vegeta job as usual, he's going to get his wife stolen by an alien who knew her as a child?
I don't know how he maintains his sanity.
Jesus yeah never heard the Japanese version before, you can really hear the screams, pretty dark.
That's how powerful the F is.
You know who it is, and you only know the first letter.
It brings into context how great a character Frieza is. A 'Revival of "B"' movie just wouldn't cut it.
I'd make a guess that since Akira Toriyama likes Maximum The Hormone's song about Frieza called "F" a lot, he wanted to give it a nod in the title.
Edit: beaten
Yeah that always bugged me too. Vegeta spent two whole years in there and wasn't stronger than Goku when he only spent half the time Vegeta did? (Hell, it's not even half, since Goku only stayed in for 10 months). Vegeta wasted a whole year of his life for nothing.
And just as strange is how Vegeta spent 7 years training after Goku died, and wasn't even able to attain SSJ2? Really? Really?
Vegeta did reach SSJ2. He was way beyond Gohan as a teenager. Goku was just even stronger.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
Well, after how throughly disgusted I was with the The Last: Naruto The Movie, I was hoping this movie would help me forget how horrible THAT movie was... ...well, while I won't judge just yet until I see it in motion... it could.. still be entertaining, right?
SnowFlakeCake
Member
The reality is, Goku and Vegeta are absolute chumps when compared to Freiza. 4 months was enough for him to be in a state where he was able to go head to head with SSJ God forms. That's why in terms of power I think of Vegeta and Goku as nothing, by doing this awful storyline Toriyama fucked things up so badly. All I think of when reading about this film is "12 months and Freiza could tackle Whis?". The cat thing is stronger than Vegeta and Goku, Whis could kill both it seems in seconds and Freiza has raw power that is magnitudes beyond Goku and Vegeta.
Did you like Battle of Gods? If so/not for what reason?
Yeah, he was SSJ2 but only after the powerup he got from Babidi.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
Battle of Gods? I thought it was all right, had its funny moments and I was entertained by it, I admit the film had its flaws though.
Why do you ask because I don't think I mentioned Battle of Gods in my post. ^^;
Nothing in the manga or anime supports this. Granted nothing directly contradicts this either. All we know is that he was brought closer to Goku's level with the power up. He very well could've gone SSJ2 in the 7 years.
I was just wondering cause your opinion of BoG may have given you an idea of how you'd think of this. Apparently there are a lot of nice character moments like in BoG, which is nice if you liked that. There's more action too so if you thought it was lacking in BoG you may get what out of this.
For example, I loved BoG but am a little worried about this cause it didn't seem to be as fun from what I've heard.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
Well, yeah, BOG was nice for those reasons.. but since people complained about lack of action, it seems this movie brings that back.
Personally, after seeing the Last: Naruto (not sure if you have) and after how.... soul-crushingly awful with its lack of action, character destroying it was, I'll take anything.
He's capable of SSJ2 prior to that.
NeonZ
Member
I've seen a review complaining exactly about that. There's still humor, but the movie seems to be basically a quick set up for Freeza's return, then the invasion and so most of the movie afterwards is a giant battle, sometimes cutting away to comedic scenes to break up the pacing, but compared to BoGs this movie apparently spends little time with the set up. According to that comment, we don't even get to see anything about Freeza's training.
Personally, if this means that the secondary characters actually get some fighting screentime too for once I'll be happy. I really want to see Roshi and Tenshinhan getting real fighting scenes after so long.
Does the movie actually offer any explanation for why certain major characters are completely absent?
Also, do we know if it openly states an in-storyline reason why there'll be no more SSJ2-3 used? Just curious...
I dunno... I kind of liked The Last besides the dumb as fuck handling of the main villain's nonsensical plans. Perhaps it was because the bar for Naruto movies was pretty low at that point, but I actually liked a lot of it if only for the sheer OTT ridiculousness of some of it and the novelty of having actual character development for central characters occur. It was clearly having to work with a lot of constraints with regard to exactly how much it could give away about how the manga ended though.
Also, I really just liked that Naruto/Hinata genjutsu trap sequence in the early parts of the movie
Also, do we know if it openly states an in-storyline reason why there'll be no more SSJ2-3 used? Just curious...
I dunno... I kind of liked The Last besides the dumb as fuck handling of the main villain's nonsensical plans. Perhaps it was because the bar for Naruto movies was pretty low at that point, but I actually liked a lot of it if only for the sheer OTT ridiculousness of some of it and the novelty of having actual character development for central characters occur. It was clearly having to work with a lot of constraints with regard to exactly how much it could give away about how the manga ended though.
Also, I really just liked that Naruto/Hinata genjutsu trap sequence in the early parts of the movie
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
Does the movie actually offer any explanation for why certain major characters are completely absent?
Also, do we know if it openly states an in-storyline reason why there'll be no more SSJ2-3 used? Just curious...
I dunno... I kind of liked The Last besides the dumb as fuck handling of the main villain's nonsensical plans. Perhaps it was because the bar for Naruto movies was pretty low at that point, but I actually liked a lot of it if only for the sheer OTT ridiculousness of some of it and the novelty of having actual character development for central characters occur. It was clearly having to work with a lot of constraints with regard to exactly how much it could give away about how the manga ended though.
Also, I really just liked that Naruto/Hinata genjutsu trap sequence in the early parts of the movie
I hated that scene.. you want to have Naruto and Hinata fall in love? Okay, do it naturally, have them hang out, find things in common, talk to each other, not to mention what bothered me is if that's supposed to be their most precious memories, why wouldn't Naruto see Iruka, Jiraya, his parents, Sasuke (the person he spent 4 years desperately trying to save), Sakura, Gaara? Yeah, him only seeing Hinata made no sense and don't get me started on that part where the scarf comes out of her bag and wraps around him... it really makes no sense. It also makes it look like Naruto's being manipulated into loving Hinata... you can't just guilt trip someone into loving someone else and f you do, it isn't love. But yeah, reserving judgment for this movie atm.
Well the invasion is hidden from Trunks and Goten (presumably since they look like the two people who have humiliated Freeza the most, although I don't know if that's stated in the movie) and Buu is sleeping and can't be woken up. As for characters like Yamcha or Mr. Satan, I'm not sure whether or not they have bit parts.
All signs point to no reason for no SSJ2/3. However the idea of God power negating the need for transformations has been brought up outside the movie.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
I hear Tien tells Yamaha to stay behind but I don't know if that's true...
Lol, this is fantastic
Advanced screening
NeonZ
Member
The tie in manga has a scene where it's mentioned that Buu fell into some kind of hibernation and nothing wakes him up, Tenshinhan told Yamcha and Chaotzu to stay behind since it'd be too dangerous, and Gohan and Bulma hid everything from Goten and Trunks, since they're too reckless. The beginning of the movie sounds similar to the manga, so that scene is probably there.
Toriyama mentioned it in an interview after Battle of the Gods (SSJ2 and 3 waste energy to transform, base and SSJ can be trained to surpass them without that waste), although no idea if it's actually explained in the movie itself.
The 2nd chapter is out. Anyway, this is a limited screening before the official opening.
i'm sure the next movie will be about reviving Cell and then he trains for a year and has Beerus and Whis become the new jobbers to buy time while Goku and Vegeta fuse themselves and get to SSJ2 God (with Green hair) to blast Cell away.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Freeza is the only one worth bringing back.
I think the general opinion seems to be that the animation is better, but the fights are fairly simplistic.
NeonZ
Member
According to the review I mentioned before, the animation is fluid and it's pretty martial arts based, with some slow motion thrown around. The main issue though apparently is that the scale of the action really doesn't feel as big as before - not only environment destruction, but also the speed (due to the fluidity and slow motion).
Because Battle of the Gods sure featured an old villain coming back. Namek arc was the peak of DBZ's popularity in Japan, which likely plays a big part in Freeza's return. Neko Majin Z had Saiyan Saga era (SSJ) Vegeta and Freeza's son, The Goku & Friends enemies were Freeza related, Freeza got name drops in BoGs and now he has this return. And there's also DB Minus and Jaco, both taking place around the same era. I can't see other movies focused on other past villains like that. The Freeza focus is actually fairly in line with what we've seen in Toriyama's recent DB related productions, while, say, "Revenge of the Red Ribbon - Featuring Cell 2.0" would be completely out of nowhere.
None from Kanzenshuu. There's probably one floating around, but all I've been reading are reviews.
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