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[DForce]

I tried Mugen, Unity, Unreal 4, RPG Maker and Fighter Maker, but only at a very basic level. I got a bit deep into flash, but never really finished a project.

Dreams seems much easier and that's what people like about it. The learning curve seems smaller, which makes it easier for people to create their ideas.


When I tried Unreal 4, I needed to learn how to import models, rig the character models and animate them. It was too much so I just gave up. Not only was it time consuming, but need third party programs to actually do most of these things.

 

[xrnzaaas]

3 hour campaign? Going to wait for the bargain bin. I was disappointed with their previous works for the price and content within. A lot of these creator-style games tend to only have very short, tiny little experiences. Nothing ground breaking either. Fun for pick up and play, but full price is a very hard sell.

I don't have experience with this genre, but I think buying Dreams for the story mode is much like doing the same thing for games like Battlefield. It's supposed to be an extended tutorial, not the main course.

 

[thelastword]

For 7 years staff wages were probably only 2 to 3 million. I'd say the overall budget for this game is quite low. How will they monetize it post launch?

Dreams will be a grower, not a shower...…..It's a platform game......It will take some time to marinate itself, the SP content is great, but user content will improve as time goes by, you will see more ambitious user content over the years, depending on the time and investment and I imagine, even more content from MM as well.....

I'm not sure they will introduce a monetary system into it, so paying for the game will have to do for now......I think bringing out the talents and creativity from gamers all over has many benefits, people can get hired, contests can be raised , it's a good mandate in discovering talent and growing the creative industry.....You might find lots of people who are just artists, not even heavy gamers purchase dreams and start to create because of how intuitive it is....

 

[Romulus]

We're just getting started too

 

[Humdinger]

Great scores. I'm not interested in creating games, so I'll check it out after the community has had time to generate a nice library.

 

[CitizenX3639]

$2 million to $3 million for 67 staff members, over 7 years? Not sure if you're being serious right now.

I hope you are saying wages were 2-3 million per YEAR, but you are missing the amount to keep the lights on which is not cheap. I would amss the final budget here is close to 80-100 million when all said and done.

 

[Gamernyc78]

does anybody know if this game is worth getting if i dont want to create my own experience but play somebody else's?

Definitely! I'm not a good creator but even during early access I found tons of fun things to play.

 

[mitch1971]

The amount of people that have played the main story is not even above 100k..

That's like saying a musical keyboard is gonna fail because hardly anyone has listened to the demo song it came with. It's not the point of the purchase.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

That's like saying a musical keyboard is gonna fail because hardly anyone has listened to the demo song it came with. It's not the point of the purchase.

Yeah, I've lost count of how many times I've said no one buys Dreams for the campaign.

 

[darkinstinct]

3 hour campaign? Going to wait for the bargain bin. I was disappointed with their previous works for the price and content within. A lot of these creator-style games tend to only have very short, tiny little experiences. Nothing ground breaking either. Fun for pick up and play, but full price is a very hard sell.

3 hours if you are taking it very slow. You can easily complete it in 2 hours.

Yeah, I've lost count of how many times I've said no one buys Dreams for the campaign.

Well, you are wrong. I did. I bought it in early access because it was cheap but never played for longer until the campaign was out. It's the only thing I was really interested in.

 

[Spukc]

can we have some kind of best off thread on neogaf ?
for must try levels?

 

[Dibils2k]

Dreams... where you can play worse versions of existing games

 

[darkinstinct]

can we have some kind of best off thread on neogaf ?
for must try levels?

Just go by the number of upvotes. The best stuff gets visibility automatically.

 

[FranXico]

Well, you are wrong. I did. I bought it in early access because it was cheap but never played for longer until the campaign was out. It's the only thing I was really interested in.

With all the marketing during early access focusing on user created content, and the campaign given less priority in development, you should have known better than expecting otherwise.
It always was very clear that the campaign was going to take an even smaller part in this game than in LBP.

 

[Niked]

That's like saying a musical keyboard is gonna fail because hardly anyone has listened to the demo song it came with. It's not the point of the purchase.

NO, the campaign is the first thing the game promote you to do. Its a great way to also see how the sales are for the game as the huge majority should at least played some of it. So it gives you a good overall picture how well the game has performed. As of now, MM needs a miracle to not get shut down by SIE.. Thats not something I dont want to happen...but MM does not make it easy for themself to stay afloat.. They need to pay their bills and they way to do it is to create games that sells...

 

[Psykodad]

NO, the campaign is the first thing the game promote you to do. Its a great way to also see how the sales are for the game as the huge majority should at least played some of it. So it gives you a good overall picture how well the game has performed. As of now, MM needs a miracle to not get shut down by SIE.. Thats not something I dont want to happen...but MM does not make it easy for themself to stay afloat.. They need to pay their bills and they way to do it is to create games that sells...

Dreams isn't a game though, it's a game engine first and foremost, multimedia platform second.

Aslo, interesting read:

A Developer Review of Dreams - IGN

Can you actually make the game of your dreams in Dreams? A developer tries it out.

www.ign.com

 

[Niked]

Dreams isn't a game though, it's a game engine first and foremost, multimedia platform second.

Aslo, interesting read:

A Developer Review of Dreams - IGN

Can you actually make the game of your dreams in Dreams? A developer tries it out.

www.ign.com

Yes, that just make it even harder for MM to stay afloat. They need to make games as making a game engien wont sell to the masses. I hope they have filled their need to be super creative and now can start to deliver games! Anyhow, I love Dreams but I wont go in and experience it that often. I bought it foremost to support MM...

 

[Psykodad]

Yes, that just make it even harder for MM to stay afloat. They need to make games as making a game engien wont sell to the masses. I hope they have filled their need to be super creative and now can start to deliver games! Anyhow, I love Dreams but I wont go in and experience it that often. I bought it foremost to support MM...

Dreams has only been released 2 days ago.
Give it some time to grow first, it'll definitely pick up gradually.

 

[Grinchy]

I am a little disappointed that the campaign is that short. I liked the editor in LittleBigPlanet a lot, but the campaigns felt meaty enough with reasons to replay the levels. I was kinda expecting the same to be true of Dreams.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I don't have experience with this genre, but I think buying Dreams for the story mode is much like doing the same thing for games like Battlefield. It's supposed to be an extended tutorial, not the main course.

That is an understandable view, but the typical "extended" gameplay is looking at these very short snippets made by other people. One of the reasons why I wasn't a fan of games such as Little Big Planet or Super Mario Maker on launch. The length and quality of the things people create vary so wildly and for every "good" level, there are 100x as many bad levels and those "good" levels just don't last that long.

Dreams is community driven. That's the whole point of Dreams.

And people need to learn the tools and how to use them, hence the short experiences.
The bigger project will require months, if not years to make. Just like any other game.

Which only bolsters my original opinion. Even less of a point to buy the game at full price when there won't be that many good creations for months, if not *years* after release.

 

[Psykodad]

Which only bolsters my original opinion. Even less of a point to buy the game at full price when there won't be that many good creations for months, if not *years* after release.

Fair enough.
My point was that expecting a game with added creation tools is backwards.
That's why Dreams needs to grow by word of mouth.

Waiting til later and give the community and content more time to grow is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Didn't MM said they are going to release more MM made Dreams gradually? I wouldn't call Art's Dream a campaign, it's there just to show what is possible with Dreams and to inspire people.

Keeping MM going costs a fraction of what it takes to keep Japan Studio going.
And Dreams different nature from every other game out there is a massive positive for Sony portfolio. Its more about increasing brand value than just making profit.

 

[darkinstinct]

Number of players for the campaign is worrying. 58.980 dreamers so far, five days after it launched, two days after retail release. The most played thing overall is Dreamiverse Dash at 69.313 dreamers. Even worse: One of the earlier tutorials/imp quests requires you to modify Cone Ball and release it as your own version. Right now, there are 35 variations of Cone Ball in the store. The unlock rate is 0 % of dreamers. The imp quest with the most unlocks is Welcome, basically playing the very first tutorial. 20 % of players have gotten that. Or if we take the highest number of players we have, 13.863 people bothered to actually look at a tutorial. Those are crazy low numbers.

 

[EMP88]

Dreams is a platform that’s going to grow organically over the next decade. Across PS4, PS5 and possibly PC.

I’m not saying it’s going to be the next Minecraft or Roblox. But if it builds to have a fraction of those populations. It’s going to be a very significant piece of software for Sony.

That’s before we see how the platform develops in terms of curating user content. And maybe even publishing.

 

[Psykodad]

Number of players for the campaign is worrying. 58.980 dreamers so far, five days after it launched, two days after retail release. The most played thing overall is Dreamiverse Dash at 69.313 dreamers. Even worse: One of the earlier tutorials/imp quests requires you to modify Cone Ball and release it as your own version. Right now, there are 35 variations of Cone Ball in the store. The unlock rate is 0 % of dreamers. The imp quest with the most unlocks is Welcome, basically playing the very first tutorial. 20 % of players have gotten that. Or if we take the highest number of players we have, 13.863 people bothered to actually look at a tutorial. Those are crazy low numbers.

Maybe someone created a box of popcorn for you to look up as you watch Dreams turn into a Nightmare.

 

[Vroadstar]

Number of players for the campaign is worrying. 58.980 dreamers so far, five days after it launched, two days after retail release. The most played thing overall is Dreamiverse Dash at 69.313 dreamers. Even worse: One of the earlier tutorials/imp quests requires you to modify Cone Ball and release it as your own version. Right now, there are 35 variations of Cone Ball in the store. The unlock rate is 0 % of dreamers. The imp quest with the most unlocks is Welcome, basically playing the very first tutorial. 20 % of players have gotten that. Or if we take the highest number of players we have, 13.863 people bothered to actually look at a tutorial. Those are crazy low numbers.

Worrying about PS5 exclusive, looking at your post history, seems you never seemed worried about any X exclusive at all...heh

 

[Romulus]

Shocking, people looking for reasons to downplay Dreams. It's been a long, demoralizing war this gen for the hardcore Xbox fans.

 

[Self High Five]

Worrying about PS5 exclusive, looking at your post history, seems you never seemed worried about any X exclusive at all...heh

Lol. Seems like quite amount of effort checking those (useless) numbers when you know actual sale news would be trickling out:

UK Charts: PS4 exclusives Yakuza and Dreams crack Top Ten

A collection of remastered Yakuza games was the biggest new physical release in the UK last week.Sega's PS4 exclusive d…

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[Dr. Claus]

Shocking, people looking for reasons to downplay Dreams. It's been a long, demoralizing war this gen for the hardcore Xbox fans.

Shocking that you would attribute anyone with a different opinion as console warriors. Actually not that shocking at all.

 

[Romulus]

Shocking that you would attribute anyone with a different opinion as console warriors. Actually not that shocking at all.

Opinions are different from suppression tactics.

 

[Kenshin775]

I've never heard of this game. it looks amazing. it sound like this can be GOTY.

 

[Kerotan]

$2 million to $3 million for 67 staff members, over 7 years? Not sure if you're being serious right now.

Let's go with average wage of $50k.

67 x 50k x 7 = 23M

So I indeed got it badly wrong. The game probably cost $40M to make.

 

[kiphalfton]

Let's go with average wage of $50k.

67 x 50k x 7 = 23M

So I indeed got it badly wrong. The game probably cost $40M to make.

After I wrote that it crossed my mind maybe you meant it needed to sell 2-3 million copies. Either way yeah probably.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, I've lost count of how many times I've said no one buys Dreams for the campaign.

This is the only thing you've been WRONG about when it comes to this game.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

This is the only thing you've been WRONG about when it comes to this game.

My YT channel has taken off and I'm getting more views and subs than I've ever got. Which video series do you think is bombing more than my worse views ever on my channel? Nobody buys Dreams for the Campaign.

 

[mckmas8808]

My YT channel has taken off and I'm getting more views and subs than I've ever got. Which video series do you think is bombing more than my worse views ever on my channel? Nobody buys Dreams for the Campaign.

That's my point. MM should have wanted people too, by creating a good 4-5 hour campaign.

 

[darkinstinct]

So where's it at now, 220k including early access buyers? I would've thought that the streamers create more interest, it looks like people enjoy watching streams of it but not actually buying it.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

$2 million to $3 million for 67 staff members, over 7 years? Not sure if you're being serious right now.

Do some math again.

GC: How small a team?
MH: We’re about 50 people now.
GC: Wow, that is small.
MH: That’s including HR and office managers and things.

So, dev staff is surely below 50.

Dreams review and interview – video game construction kit

GameCentral reviews the new game creation tool from the makers of LittleBigPlanet and talks to creative director Mark Healey about its future.

metro.co.uk

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Let's go with average wage of $50k.

67 x 50k x 7 = 23M

So I indeed got it badly wrong. The game probably cost $40M to make.

And you too ( post above )

 

[darkinstinct]

Do some math again.

GC: How small a team?
MH: We’re about 50 people now.
GC: Wow, that is small.
MH: That’s including HR and office managers and things.

So, dev staff is surely below 50.

Dreams review and interview – video game construction kit

GameCentral reviews the new game creation tool from the makers of LittleBigPlanet and talks to creative director Mark Healey about its future.

metro.co.uk

Now add QA, localization, marketing, contractors ... the dev team size is just one factor.

 

[Raven117]

I've never heard of this game. it looks amazing. it sound like this can be GOTY.

Not with cyberpunk, tlou2, ffvii out there

 

[kiphalfton]

Do some math again.

GC: How small a team?
MH: We’re about 50 people now.
GC: Wow, that is small.
MH: That’s including HR and office managers and things.

So, dev staff is surely below 50.

Dreams review and interview – video game construction kit

GameCentral reviews the new game creation tool from the makers of LittleBigPlanet and talks to creative director Mark Healey about its future.

metro.co.uk

How about you reread my quote, and look at the context of it (i.e. there is a question mark for a reason).

I was questioning that person's math. Obviously 2-3 million doesn't pass the smell test, and is unrealistically low.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

 

[SweetShark]

I can see myself if this game come on PC (the Devs already said they want in the future) to create a Visual Novel I have on my mind for long time.

Edit:
Also I am wondering what kind of policy the company have for the creations made with Dreams.
Is Warcraft 3 Reforge all over again or each made game belong to its original Dev?

 

[oxman2k]

If it doesn't sell more then put it on ps+ free in a few months so everyone gets to try it

 

[VertigoOA]

Looking forward to seeing this pile of shit massively bomb.

 

[Bullet Club]

Famitsu review

Dreams (PS4) – 9/10/8/9 [36/40]

 

[Bullet Club]

 

[darkinstinct]

Sales are quite steady currently. Around 10k a day. Not bad. PewDiePie showed it yesterday to 5 million Youtube viewers.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I've never heard of this game. it looks amazing. it sound like this can be GOTY.

It will be up in the talks. Sony usually has a goty contender every year. That's why some ppl be jelly.