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[eso76]

yes, basically.

But fuck scores and numbers anyway.

 

[Aaron D.]

Driveclub has a fantastic driving model with incredible tracks and a fun online mode(when it's working). Those are the most important aspects of the game and the game excels in those areas.

Putting the lack of content issues aside, can game owners address the bolded?

I'm waiting on the PS+ free version to decide for myself, but after reading a lot of reviews and watching Twitch/YouTube footage, the driving model seems kind of iffy to me.

The cars seem to stick to the road leading into curves and then just randomly spin out (rear-end) at some point. I'm a sim racer fan, and I totally get grip-inertia ratios (more specifically when it tips over), but it doesn't look right in Drive Club. It looks random and unpredictable.

Like I said, I haven't played it so I can't say. But it sure looks questionable to me. Even more so when you factor in the brain-dead AI that knocks you off course and penalizes you because they seem stuck to a single driving line.

Can you guys describe your experience with the driving model more? I'm not worried about the other stuff.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

People questioning the low scores always come up with arguments that it's only the reviewer opinion and bla bla bla.. Because you like the game or want the game to score high doesn't change the fact that the game is not great based on several reports from people that spent time playing it and reviewing it. The online problems, lack of content,psn free edition delayed and other factors such as missing the weather implementations (come on the game got delayed for one year) contribute to the negative perception of this game..

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Putting the lack of content issues aside, can game owners address the bolded?

I'm waiting on the PS+ free version to decide for myself, but after reading a lot of reviews and watching Twitch/YouTube footage, the driving model seems kind of iffy to me.

The cars seem to stick to the road leading into curves and then just randomly spin out (rear-end) at some point. I'm a sim racer fan, and I totally get grip-inertia ratios (more specifically when it tips over), but it doesn't look right in Drive Club. It looks random and unpredictable.

Like I said, I haven't played it so I can't say. But it sure looks questionable to me. Even more so when you factor in the brain-dead AI that knocks you off course and penalizes you because they seem stuck to a single driving line.

Can you guys describe your experience with the driving model more? I'm not worried about the other stuff.

Supposedly the review Doc said that the game purposefully has a grip that sticks more to the road. so you can just throw the breaks on and go into corners. I've seen the videos and it makes the game look a little odd in the way it plays. Maybe once you are used too it, it allows for a great sense of speed or something?

I mean nearly everyones response to the game is really glowing in here, so I am really looking forward to trying it. I don't get why reviewers have even brought up open world at all. it's completely pointless and nothing to do with the game. It's shocking to me to be honest that they even would. Will forza 6 now be knocked for not being open world?

there should be track racers still in the world. I just hope I get to try driveclub out soon. I am not convinced enough to buy it...but I want to give it a go.

 

[BradleyLove]

The notion that every game should be reviewed in a vacuum is a stupid one.

The constant comparisons to FH2 are stupid as well. Seems like a cheap excuse too because some reviewers mentioned "open world" design.

Compare DC to other racing games if you want and it still looks slim in content and scope.

What is does it does beautifully, meta 72 or 7/10, good game, fair score.

But a game should be reviewed for what it is. Not what it isn't or never set out to be.

Sure, the content may be limited in comparison to other track-based races and in that case, the criticism is valid. But to compare to open-world is wrong. It'd be like comparing COD to Far Cry. They both have completely different design goals.

Gran Turismo/Forza MS wouldn't be unfavourably compared to NFS so I don't get why comparisons are being drawn between DC and FH.

If they were both on the same platform I could understand it perhaps a little more; after all with a finite amount of disposable income one might only be able to afford one or the other. But this isn't the case so the comparisons make even less sense.

But most of all, the open-world circle jerk in the gaming media needs to stop. Not everyone enjoys open-world so it shouldn't be a negative against a game for being linear.

 

[GlamFM]

But a game should be reviewed for what it is. Not what it isn't or never set out to be.

But most of all, the open-world circle jerk in the gaming media needs to stop. Not everyone enjoys open-world so it shouldn't be a negative against a game for being linear.

This is what this thread does, right? Makes people think all reviews called DC out for not being open world...

 

[acevans2]

People questioning the low scores always come up with arguments that it's only the reviewer opinion and bla bla bla.. Because you like the game or want the game to score high doesn't change the fact that the game is not great based on several reports from people that spent time playing it and reviewing it. The online problems, lack of content,psn free edition delayed and other factors such as missing the weather implementations (come on the game got delayed for one year) contribute to the negative perception of this game..

You can't say that factually. You're flat-out wrong.

 

[benny_a]

This is what this thread does, right? Makes people think all reviews called DC out for not being open world...

Yeah, just like your posts in this thread makes people think the game should have been canceled.

People's take away from a thread with mostly positive reviews (as defined by MC) which ended up as MC 72 are different.

 

[boeso]

This is what this thread does, right? Makes people think all reviews called DC out for not being open world...

Thank God we have you to correct them.

What is does it does beautifully, meta 72 or 7/10, good game, fair score.

I hereby declare this debate, over!

 

[HighResTomato]

Was to be expected with such a long delay.

 

[Heshinsi]

People questioning the low scores always come up with arguments that it's only the reviewer opinion and bla bla bla.. Because you like the game or want the game to score high doesn't change the fact that the game is not great based on several reports from people that spent time playing it and reviewing it. The online problems, lack of content,psn free edition delayed and other factors such as missing the weather implementations (come on the game got delayed for one year) contribute to the negative perception of this game..

What about all the above 8 scores, why are they discounted in your opinion?

 

[GlamFM]

Yeah, just like your posts in this thread makes people think the game should have been canceled.

People's take away from a thread with mostly positive reviews (as defined by MC) which ended up as MC 72 are different.

Again, not my words.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

What about all the above 8 scores, why are they discounted in your opinion?

I never said it didn't deserve an 8 I was trying to make a point that the low scores are justified

 

[IISANDERII]

Love open world for games like GTA and Assassin's Creed but of the 3 open world racers I've played, i thought it detracted from the game. An open world environment is not conducive to a good racing circuit or clean, competitive racing. IME.

 

[benny_a]

Again, not my words.

Oh shit, you account was compromised! You should contact an administrator immediately and change your password.

It was better, but not enough to justify another year of dev time.

Some review said it shouldn´t have been delayed, but cancelled. This is kind of how I felt.

 

[BloodMoney]

This is what this thread does, right? Makes people think all reviews called DC out for not being open world...

Actually, all of the sub 65 reviews I read, DID bring up the lack of an open world...................

 

[GlamFM]

Oh shit, you account was compromised! You should contact an administrator immediately and change your password.

Read on..

 

[FaintColt388301]

GameTrailers put up a Driveclub vs Horizon 2 video. It's not really a vs video, just them talking about both.

It's a pretty good video to check out. I respect Bloodworth's opinion when it comes to racing games and he seems to really be enjoying Driveclub. He gives it a lot of attention here and seems to be enjoying it more.

I really enjoy the game as well and am having a lot of fun with it. It's a solid racing game. All the no soul talk is fine with me. It doesn't need soul. It's just pure driving and that is exactly what I want.

 

[twobear]

But a game should be reviewed for what it is. Not what it isn't or never set out to be.

What if what it sets out to be isn't particularly fun or interesting?

I get not comparing it to open world and saying 'it's bad because it's not open world'.

But if the game is generally dull, unambitious, and lacking creative vision, it seems perfectly reasonable to criticise it for that reason, even if it's like that because they achieved their goals.

 

[Ingueferroque]

What if what it sets out to be isn't particularly fun or interesting?

I get not comparing it to open world and saying 'it's bad because it's not open world'.

But if the game is generally dull, unambitious, and lacking creative vision, it seems perfectly reasonable to criticise it for that reason, even if it's like that because they achieved their goals.

Are you describing DriveClub?

 

[twobear]

Are you describing DriveClub?

No, I haven't played it, I have no idea if that's a good description of it (although it is the description that several reviewers have given).

I'm just saying that if intentional game choices have made the game not good, then defending the game on the grounds that it's what they intended doesn't really hold water.

 

[BradleyLove]

What if what it sets out to be isn't particularly fun or interesting?

I get not comparing it to open world and saying 'it's bad because it's not open world'.

But if the game is generally dull, unambitious, and lacking creative vision, it seems perfectly reasonable to criticise it for that reason, even if it's like that because they achieved their goals.

There's nothing wrong with that. That's perfectly valid.

 

[nib95]

The notion that every game should be reviewed in a vacuum is a stupid one.

The constant comparisons to FH2 are stupid as well. Seems like a cheap excuse too because some reviewers mentioned "open world" design.

Compare DC to other racing games if you want and it still looks slim in content and scope.

What is does it does beautifully, meta 72 or 7/10, good game, fair score.

Well that depends on what you mean by scope. Most other track based racers don't have the dynamic challenge system that DC offers, nor the level of dynamic lighting, clouds etc that actually genuinely impact and change the look and feel of the tracks. I'd also argue that DC has better audio effects and AI, and then there's the track designs themselves. Vast, gorgeous and massive, with a more true to life feel than pretty much any racer in existence, and with a tonne of variety in the look and variation of elevation etc. Really, to me the only major omission I'd dock points for is the lack of weather at launch. Imo a track based racer needs weather, but other than that it doesn't need any other gimmicks, nor does it need to be open world or whatever. Though cosmetic vehicle upgrades (spoilers etc) would have also been nice.

 

[Ashad Mamood]

Anyone who is sitting on the fence should watch this GT video. A very fair comparison with FH2!

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/lwhga1/driveclub-forza-horizon-2-vs-driveclub

 

[BloodMoney]

GameTrailers put up a Driveclub vs Horizon 2 video. It's not really a vs video, just them talking about both.

Yeah, good video. speaks to the strength of both games. You can tell Blood actually gives a shit about the genre. Glad to see someone who like racing games, reviewing racing games.
*ugh at the GT popup adverts though.

 

[Ashad Mamood]

I was interested in the game but 72 metacritic puts a damper on my anticipation. :/ Considering the massive hype surrounding it I was expecting much, much better.

I'll wait until it's 20€, seems like a good price for this game.

Watch this video. Listen to what the reviewers are talking about. They try to answer many of the important questions about this game etc!
Might even convince you to buy it?

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/lwhga1/driveclub-forza-horizon-2-vs-driveclub

 

[Ashad Mamood]

I absolutely love the tracks! Probably some of the best tracks I've raced!

 

[valkillmore]

I absolutely love the tracks! Probably some of the best tracks I've raced!

I love how you kinda have to relearn them as you earn faster cars, that's what I'm having the most fun with. Learning to pump the brakes, handbrake and gas in JUST the right way to slice the corners is great fun, and that is to me what a racing game is! I'm enjoying the shit out of it.

And it's TOUGH, but in the 'you need to get better at the controls and learn the tracks' way, not the 'this gameplay is broken' way. The gameplay is on point.

 

[Ashad Mamood]

I'm sure, but wouldn't more options and variables (options other games do offer) give the game even longer legs ?

Although yeah, to be honest the only racing games in which i put many hours trying to climb leaderboards are those with VERY FEW (1/3) tracks and cars. Too many variables are overwhelming for me.

Which is basically why i think repeating areas and enemies in Halo worked very well, but that's another story.

Same here I never due any of the tuning! I just buy a better car when I have enough winnings!

 

[FaintColt388301]

I love how you kinda have to relearn them as you earn faster cars, that's what I'm having the most fun with. Learning to pump the brakes, handbrake and gas in JUST the right way to slice the corners is great fun, and that is to me what a racing game is! I'm enjoying the shit out of it.

And it's TOUGH, but in the 'you need to get better at the controls and learn the tracks' way, not the 'this gameplay is broken' way. The gameplay is on point.

Yeah, I did a time trial with one car and kept trying to shave my time down. I finally got it down to where I wanted it. I had learned the track really well. I ended up racing it with a different car and thought I'll run right through this one. Nope. I had to completely readjust.

 

[Ashad Mamood]

What Driveclub was intended to be is irrelevant for reviews scores.
Driveclub had little ambition (graphics aside), like i said it shouldn't be awarded 9's just because the devs perfectly achieved whatever unambitious goal they had.

A lot of journalists just wrote that driveclub only offers A, when other games offer A AND B. And tbh Driveclub's A isn't even exceptionally well done or fleshed out compared to other games's A.

Horizon offers closed circuits and p2p races as well as free roaming. Upgrades and tuning, you can just ignore or autotune in SP. Yes people who tune their cars will get better results, but you can restrict the race to stock. In Motorsport you can forget about the career and just jump in and race, turn assists and damage on or off to basically make it as arcadey as you like. Both offer greater variety and better and larger car selection etc.

So, no. This is not what journalists wanted, but they are aware and have to inform you that there are things Driveclub doesn't have compared to other racers.
Of course, it's stuff that you might never care about and that's why one should read the damn review. But a score is just a number and MUST reflect the fact that Driveclub doesn't offer as much content and variety as other racers.



See, you're part of the problem.
72 metacritic means nothing. Just go, read the reviews and try to understand whether you care or not about the stuff that determined the low-ish score.

You keep on mentioning FH2 but you do realise half of the stuff in the game has come from another game called Forza 5?
It's using the same engine and Alot of the stuff has been copied and pasted over to FH2.
Tuning, customisation, replay, rewind, photo mode and cars. So already half of the work for PG has already been done. Driveclub is a new game built up from scratch! Try comparing apples to apples!

 

[Kodros]

It was better, but not enough to justify another year of dev time.

Some review said it shouldn´t have been delayed, but cancelled. This is kind of how I felt.

Well those reviewers are idiots. It's Sony's money, they can do what they want. And if it was canceled, I would miss out on all of the fun I'm having with it so, really, F those guys.

 

[QaaQer]

SNE investors care about the quality of a single game?

I would like that to be substantiated.

The Sony employee who greenlight the game would be the investor in this case.

As for substantiation, the studios who lose contracts and close are the ones who make poor selling games, the easiest predictor of sales is Metacritic score. It is so predictive, it is used in contracts.

 

[benny_a]

The Sony employee who greenlight the game would be the investor in this case.

As for substantiation, the studios who lose contracts and close are the ones who make poor selling games, the easiest predictor of sales is Metacritic score. It is so predictive, it is used in contracts.

I don't think that is a substantiation. That's just one more assertion.

That it is used in contracts is public knowledge, that it is a predictor of sales has to be demonstrated.

 

[QaaQer]

Unlike normal human beings? The idea of game critics being some unified front is weird. The whole reason reviewers exist is to be people with (hopefully) perspective on the range of stuff out there, and to either give recommendations or info/quality comments about the games. Nothing they say is binding, it's just criticism, and people will get a sense of writers that are useful to them based on their interests.

studying people in groups isn't some newfangled radical concept. A lot of effort goes into understanding and manipulating review scores, and part of doing that is understanding reviewers as a group.

 

[QaaQer]

I don't think that is a substantiation. That's just one more assertion.

That it is used in contracts is public knowledge, that it is a predictor of sales has to be demonstrated.

http://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218

here is one article, wherein developers like Kim Swift will tell you that Metacritic is fundamental when it comes to money and game development.

"Review scores are a part of our industry and it's something we pay attention to as developers,” said Swift. And they lead to trends. “Review scores of this year are gonna drastically affect what’s gonna be seen next year,” she said.

Even big retailers like Walmart and Target ask publishers for Metacritic predictions when deciding whether or not to feature certain games.

“One of the criteria [retailers] have is, ‘What’s the review score gonna be?’” said Tim Pivnicny, vice president of sales and marketing at Atlus USA. “That comes up a lot... They’re concerned if it’s going to be a good game.”

Metacritic has a significant influence on the way games are produced today. That's a problem.

There is probably some graph out there somewhere, but I'm not willing to find it. The fact that executives at Activision, Walmart, Bethesda, etc, etc, etc, believe that it is indicative of sales iis good enough for me.

 

[Hawk269]

Love open world for games like GTA and Assassin's Creed but of the 3 open world racers I've played, i thought it detracted from the game. An open world environment is not conducive to a good racing circuit or clean, competitive racing. IME.

Clean and competitive is not DC strong point so saying that is not helping. The AI is pretty awful in the game and it feels like you are playing bumper cars. Hitting a turn at 150mph and you just bounce off like the car hit a wall going 5 mph is not competitive.

 

[NullPointer]

Clean and competitive is not DC strong point so saying that is not helping. The AI is pretty awful in the game and it feels like you are playing bumper cars. Hitting a turn at 150mph and you just bounce off like the car hit a wall going 5 mph is not competitive.

This is the opposite of my experience with the game. Clean and competitive is exactly what I was looking for and I've found it here. The only game I can think of where the AI drives cleaner is GT and that's because the other cars are almost supernaturally glued to the driving line.

DC has a mix of sticking to the line and some aggro and liveliness. Not as aggro as Forza's Drivatars and not as tranquil as GT.

Besides that the entire scoring is based upon clean sectors and style, with penalties for cutting corners and collisions, some of those penalties being pretty steep.

 

[RayMaker]

Anyone who is sitting on the fence should watch this GT video. A very fair comparison with FH2!

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/lwhga1/driveclub-forza-horizon-2-vs-driveclub

I wouldn't call it exactly fair, they seem to focus more on driveclub.

 

[ukas]

I wouldn't call it exactly fair, they seem to focus more on driveclub.

Because he talks more about Driveclub than Horizon it's not fair? He still compares both of them and gives his opinion about how they stack up.

 

[Piggus]

Really liking it so far and don't really agree with the harsher reviews. It reminds of PGR but on non-city tracks... And that's definitely not a bad thing.

 

[RayMaker]

Because he talks more about Driveclub than Horizon it's not fair? He still compares both of them and gives his opinion about how they stack up.

Its more of a ''how does driveclub stack up against FH2'' then a true comparison talking about all aspects equally in both games.

 

[Wynnebeck]

This is the opposite of my experience with the game. Clean and competitive is exactly what I was looking for and I've found it here. The only game I can think of where the AI drives cleaner is GT and that's because the other cars are almost supernaturally glued to the driving line.

DC has a mix of sticking to the line and some aggro and liveliness. Not as aggro as Forza's Drivatars and not as tranquil as GT.

Besides that the entire scoring is based upon clean sectors and style, with penalties for cutting corners and collisions, some of those penalties being pretty steep.

Tell me about it. I like that the game punishes you for trying to be cheap instead of driving cleanly.

 

[FonkyByNature]

Clean and competitive is not DC strong point so saying that is not helping. The AI is pretty awful in the game and it feels like you are playing bumper cars. Hitting a turn at 150mph and you just bounce off like the car hit a wall going 5 mph is not competitive.

I don't agree with you. DC has actually a very intense competitive flow. The bouncing has nothing to do with it. What you're talking about is arcade vs simulation and DC is an arcade game mostly with a hint of simulation. FH2 is pretty much the same, arcade with a hint of sim.

The competitive nature of Driveclub still there and is there in a big way. It's frustrating yes but then again it forces you to learn it and to be a better racer which is exactly my cup of tea.

Don't wanna compare it the other racers around but DC is the first racing game to make me feel in a good rush while driving. Every little thing counts in the game. Making it a very exiting game to play. I love it personally despite the more than average reviews.

 

[meanspartan]

Haven't been following as closely as others, but is it fair to say that the Gaf opinion is better than the metacritic score? Cuz that is what I am getting. But maybe OTs just skew positive...

On the fence about buying this, guess I'll just wait til they decide to release the free edition.

EDIT: Oh and to be clear, I fucking despise open world racing games. Racing games should have a track I can load up and race and that's it. So the fact that DriveClub lacks open world is no negative for me.

 

[FairXchange]

Driveclub is excellent, and once again numbered reviews are meaningless and have always been.

 

[benny_a]

http://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218

here is one article, wherein developers like Kim Swift will tell you that Metacritic is fundamental when it comes to money and game development.

There is probably some graph out there somewhere, but I'm not willing to find it. The fact that executives at Activision, Walmart, Bethesda, etc, etc, etc, believe that it is indicative of sales iis good enough for me.

But I haven't denied that they influence upcoming games, which is what Kim Swift talks about.

The closest is that comment by Atlus USA, but that is not evidence of that it is written in contracts and used as predictor of sales.

That GameSpot and such have conferences to look at upcoming games to determine how many they order is also not prediction, that's just sales.

If you've understood my query as that I deny that publishers do not look at all at review scores then that was not my intention. I think for example that Sony has looked at mock reviews for this game and is acting accordingly.

 

[NullPointer]

Tell me about it. I like that the game punishes you for trying to be cheap instead of driving cleanly.

For a solid example of all of the above, this is a great video of one full race:
India: Munnar, point to point race

The AI is going for the line, as you'd see in any real racing, but they aren't on rails. There's a mixture of clean overtakes, aggressive cuts by the AI back into position, and some slight bumps and paint trading - none of which is penalized here as its very minor. Anything beyond this would demerit points though, or an acceleration penalty if the hits were significant.

Edit: There was one penalized collision I missed in there.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

For a solid example of all of the above, this is a great video of one full race:
India: Munnar, point to point race

The AI is going for the line, as you'd see in any real racing, but they aren't on rails. There's a mixture of clean overtakes, aggressive cuts by the AI back into position, and some slight bumps and paint trading - none of which is penalized here as its very minor. Anything beyond this would demerit points though, or an acceleration penalty if the hits were significant.

I'm not defending Drivatars because they really are a pain in the arse at times but looking at the width and flow of that track I don't think they'd have any issues there unlike Long Beach or Bathurst. They fare well on circuits like Silverstone and Alps for example.

Sometimes.

Edit: I thought you compared AI to Forza and GT somewhere. I must be mental.

 

[NullPointer]

Edit: I thought you compared AI to Forza and GT somewhere. I must be mental.

No, you're right, I did compare them, and I agree with your observations on Forza drivatars. Its the thin and tight tracks like Long Beach and Yas Marina where things are just a clusterfuck. Wider tracks, and higher lap counts help a lot.