Blame Apple for their updates crapping on apps
Blame EA for being too cheap to support their consumers.
Blame Apple for their updates crapping on apps
The difference between console and mobile is also that you don't have to worry about physical media not functioning..
The difference between old consoles and something with a mobile OS is that you can get a refund on non-functioning games
Mass Effect Inflitrator and Dead Space mobile were pretty great.
I would of loved them ported over to 3ds or Vita.
Brb guys, buying digital on my N64 and GameCube..Or you could just buy digital.
Refunds are one solution, the other is don't update the OS if you need to play something that badly. Just like you don't sell an old console.It's nice that Apple/Google is more open about refunds but this issue is still something that just doesn't happen on consoles. Refunds are a pretty shitty comsolation when I just want to play the best version of Ghost Trick.
I don't understand why you're defending such a shitty practice. It only benefits Google and Apple. It hurts developers, publishers and consumers.
This problem is compounded by the amount of iOS devices that always jump to the latest OS version quickly. I haven't written any iOS software before but can any dev explain what is it in each update that breaks existing compatibility?
Blame EA for being too cheap to support their consumers.
Brb guys, buying digital on my N64 and GameCube.
Right, because you have no response to that.I can't roll my eyes hard enough. It's not worth discussing this with you.
I've been on GAF for a while but I'm still surprised that we have a broken app defense force.
Brb guys, buying digital on my N64 and GameCube
Apples to oranges. Those platforms never had digital stores and never will.
And as far as GC goes - you could play those games on Wii. That gave you more years of being able to play them than you have with mobile games.
Plus, with newer generation of consoles, usually there are changes to hardware architecture that break compatibility. With mobile phones, it's usually OS update that break things, not new hardware.
No it's not. New firmware releases didn't break older games released for PS3. Same goes for Xbox 360. Same goes for newer consoles. In terms of PC most of the applications are compatible even when the OS changes quite considerably (XP to Vista jump for example). And on PC (and Android) you can fix compatibility issues by yourself, whereas on iOS its only developer that can do that (or you can Jailbreak).It is not apples to oranges, it's the same underlying concept. If people are willing to keep their old N64's to play all of their games then they should be willing to keep their old iOS devices to play their old games if that is of major concern to them (which for most consumers, it isn't).
It is not apples to oranges, it's the same underlying concept. If people are willing to keep their old N64's to play all of their games then they should be willing to keep their old iOS devices to play their old games if that is of major concern to them (which for most consumers, it isn't).
No it's not. New firmware releases didn't break older games released for PS3. Same goes for Xbox 360. Same goes for newer consoles. In terms of PC most of the applications are compatible even when the OS changes quite considerably (XP to Vista jump for example). And on PC (and Android) you can fix compatibility issues by yourself, whereas on iOS its only developer that can do that (or you can Jailbreak).
Nintendo 64 was incomatible with GC because of data storage for games and not because software update. I can play the game fine on older version of the OS but I can't on newer even on the same HW. It is that simple. Someone fucked up and it's both Apple and EA's fault.
The nature of iOS upgrades will make that extremely difficult in the next few years. You'd have to keep a device for each version of iOS, plus save the games on the hardware because you can't download them anymore. Additionally, it will become harder to find, say, an iPad 2 without iOS 8+ in the coming years, because Apple pushes updates hard (and has plans to push them harder). So actually getting the hardware with the software, if you haven't made a contingency plan for it, gets extremely difficult.
Even if someone cares a lot about hardware preservation, there's a lot standing their way. It's unfortunate.
It's also frustrating because the hardware itself hasn't changed. There's nothing about the new iPhones that couldn't play those EA games (unlike an N64 or Gamecube). It's just the codebase, and its software environment that has changed so drastically, so quickly that the code is effectively useless. That doesn't bolster confidence in me, as an app developer.
Exactly! I've been spending the last two weeks dealing with Bullshit issues caused by ios 9 and in compatibility with older xcode versions. All of these bugs don't occur depending which version of xcode 6 we are using. Apple needs to stop making changes without caring about back compatibility.Pretty much this, this costs devs and companies money for Apple's fuck ups. So many of my apps break after a major update.
Can't really blame EA too much for this, if updating the game is too much work for too little money then there's just not motivation for them to do it.
Also would definitely help if Apple/Google didn't break shit every time they update.
You can download every game you've ever purchased on iOS again regardless of whether it's on the App Store, downgrading will always have a work-around solution for those that care, and by in large every game you had on your old hardware will work because as you yourself pointed out most API problems start happening after 4 years.
Lots of Apple hate for a problem that occurs on android as well.
That being said, if you own these games, they're still available to you.
Exactly! I've been spending the last two weeks dealing with Bullshit issues caused by ios 9 and in compatibility with older xcode versions. All of these bugs don't occur depending which version of xcode 7 we are using. Apple needs to stop making changes without caring about back compatibility.
Lots of Apple hate for a problem that occurs on android as well.
That being said, if you own these games, they're still available to you.
Well as far as the N64 is concerned we could also start talking about the RAM expansion pak and the save pak that you needed for some games so it really isn't all that easy for that console either.That doesn't really alter my thesis of "it's really difficult." Because it is intensely so, much more than equivalent platforms. Your suggestion that it's as easy as keeping around an N64 was flawed and incorrectly trivializes the concerns.
Also, practically impossible to predict. At least for the N64 I knew those games would stop working. There's no clean cut off point. Regarding the point I made earlier, one app could die in a single iOS upgrade if the code used certain API's. Another could use 4 years. It's hard to say.
It really comes down to the maturity of iOS (or lack thereof, at least right now). I understand why Apple is doing it, but for most companies it's not realistic to set aside several programmers (who each cost six figures) to keep your old stuff working. That can't be the expectation indefinitely, especially when the curation of the App Store is so important.
The reality is of course that both companies deserve scorn for being selfish and shitting on their partners and customers.Blame EA for being too cheap to support their consumers.
It is not apples to oranges, it's the same underlying concept. If people are willing to keep their old N64's to play all of their games then they should be willing to keep their old iOS devices to play their old games if that is of major concern to them (which for most consumers, it isn't).
The yearly iOS updates really piss about with iOS games, apple really need to somehow support older runtimes in some way for compatability, I have an old ipod touch 4g which is still on an old iOS for a few older games which broke over the years but that's only because the OS can't be updated past it's current.
That scenario doesn't work either. Developers only support so many iterations of iOS and phase the older ones out. I can't count how many games have gone for an update, and then not be playable because we can't update iOS. You might respond to not update the apps either, but there's been at least once there was a hook that didn't allow to run the game until we updated.
Either way, the developer was telling us we weren't playing that game anymore on that phone.
Ya they should ignore like every business aspect ever and cater to something that Apple broke just becauseBlame EA for being too cheap to support their consumers.
The reality is of course that both companies deserve scorn for being selfish and shitting on their partners and customers.
Ya they should ignore like every business aspect ever and cater to something that Apple broke just because
Pretty much every item (or just flat out everything) on the App Store now has the ability to download the last working version for your OS:
Well as far as the N64 is concerned we could also start talking about the RAM expansion pak and the save pak that you needed for some games so it really isn't all that easy for that console either.
The fact remains if you want to play your old games, you're gonna have to keep all of your old shit. It isn't that difficult to do a little research on a game you want to play to find out the version number it requires, just like it isn't that difficult to do a little research and find out which N64 games require the expansion or save pak.
EA knows full well how iOS and Android work. They are modern mobile OS's and yearly updates to improve and deprecate API's can break your software. Like all other developers, they could budget legacy support.
They choose not to.
"Just because"? Lol. Again, EA didn't budget support. Other developers do. Whose fault is it again?
I'm sorry but you really don't need to be a fortune teller, for a game like BioShock on iOS it can take you less than a minute to find out what version number you need. Also requiring physical hardware additions will not be relatively easy as time progresses and prices continue to rise for those items.The RAM expansion and the save pak are relatively easy to track down, unless the hardware stopped working over time. A minority of games used it, and lists are plentiful on the internet about which ones. N64 preservation is extremely easy.
Unlike iOS, where you don't know what game will work on what iOS version until you fire it up. I figure there's some people documenting this stuff and backing up iOS apps as best they can, but the documentation is probably limited. There's just so much standing in the way of everyone. The system is set up against them.
There is an equivalency to be made, sure - keep your old devices to play old games. But to do it on iOS, you have to be a fortune teller, know more about iOS than I do, become a master at jailbreaking and downgrading, own tons of hardware, and remain intensely diligent. It's unreasonable to claim that N64 preservation is equally hard as iOS preservation.
"It’s not recommended (since these users will feel left out), but it is possible."
Developers have to go out of their way to make it not work and apparently the method outlined there requires the device have no front facing camera.
I'm sorry but you really don't need to be a fortune teller, for a game like BioShock on iOS it can take you less than a minute to find out what version number you need.
Also requiring physical hardware additions will not be relatively easy as time progresses and prices continue to rise for those items.
It's not the same with android. The new releases of android are gated ( unless you are a power user) by carriers and this gives months after an official release to catch up and address bugs. Apple pushes an OS update to everyone independent of any gating. So the OS version goes live faster then android.Lots of Apple hate for a problem that occurs on android as well.
That being said, if you own these games, they're still available to you.
No, if you want to download the old version of Netflix onto your iOS 5 iPad that's still possible because the app for that version is still on Apple's servers.That article is from 2012. iOS has changed since then. Setting the minimum iOS version to about two versions back is the default in Xcode and is highly recommended to get the newest API's.
How bad exactly are you at researching? Look up BioShock iOS release date and download a version that fits between the time frame of it working and no longer working. It's not that complicated.And it can take you more than an hour to find out what version numbers you can't use.
You're not really attacking my argument, just my supporting statements.
"Its not recommended (since these users will feel left out), but it is possible."
Developers have to go out of their way to make it not work and apparently the method outlined there requires the device have no front facing camera.
Apple said:If a compatible version isn't available, you can try contacting the app developer.
Apparently, because there are new mobile operating system versions on the way (Android 6.0 and iOS9 and 9.1), EA decided again to remove some of their games, because they decided to end support and not update their games to work properly on mobile devices.
No, if you want to download the old version of Netflix onto your iOS 5 iPad that's still possible because the app for that version is still on Apple's servers.
How bad exactly are you at researching? Look up BioShock iOS release date and download a version that fits between the time frame of it working and no longer working.
So every year EA's operating budget keeps growing because of legacy support as they release more and more apps and games? At some point it's not reasonable to infinitely budget legacy support.EA knows full well how iOS and Android work. They are modern mobile OS's and yearly updates to improve and deprecate API's can break your software. Like all other developers, they could budget legacy support.
They choose not to.
"Just because"? Lol. Again, EA didn't budget support. Other developers do. Whose fault is it again?
Absolutely, it's EA's fault to not account for this situation.EA knows full well how iOS and Android work. They are modern mobile OS's and yearly updates to improve and deprecate API's can break your software. Like all other developers, they could budget legacy support.
They choose not to.
Anecdotal evidence but every game I've tried to download has worked within the function. If something didn't work then there is another option and that is simply taking the old version that was backed up into your iTunes and put it back on.It's apparently pretty easy, because most of the games my kids like won't work on anything below iOS 7. I would also expect that figure to keep revising forward.
Also, I think for you to get the prompt to download an older version, that version must still exist on the App Store.
It's literally working right now no issues LOL, just like plenty of Wii owners are using an app that's well over 4 years old.Good luck getting a four year old version of Netflix to connect to their servers.
But you're not reading what I'm saying. For modern apps, you basically have to cut off support for older iOS versions. It makes your code unmaintainable if you don't, because you have to support multiple (sometimes conflicting) API's in one app. Don't be surprised if a bunch of modern apps written for iOS 7 suddenly stop working soon.
The chances of there being no trace of when a game stopped working is slim, especially from a big name developer. If you have a game or app you really care about it's not that hard to check to see if it's compatible with the new version before updating by reading a couple of recent reviews.Assuming, of course, that anybody documented when it stopped working.
My point is: If you're using your iOS devices right now, upgrading your devices, you won't know what stopped working until you upgrade iOS. Only after the fact will you know exactly what needed to be preserved.
So every year EA's operating budget keeps growing because of legacy support as they release more and more apps and games? At some point it's not reasonable to infinitely budget legacy support.
It's literally working right now no issues LOL, just like plenty of Wii owners are using an app that's well over 4 years old.
It's not a matter of supporting older apps, it's a matter of simply having the older version on Apple's servers. Your latest version can require iOS 9, that doesn't matter. The version that supports iOS 5 can be left untouched on Apple's servers.
The chances of there being no trace of when a game stopped working is slim, especially from a big name developer. If you have a game or app you really care about it's not that hard to check to see if it's compatible with the new version before updating by reading a couple of recent reviews.
Right, because you have no response to that.
I prefer the term modern OS defense force actually, thanks.
It's just a matter of supporting a video stream, really nothing impressive about it. YouTube works fine as well and also a ton of games. Getting to iOS 5 is simple, jailbreak or have something like a gen 1 iPad that can't be upgraded any further.Then that's very impressive of Netflix, to not change their streaming platform in over four years. I would imagine they're an outlier in mobile services.
The version that only supports iOS 5 can be left untouched. If there ever was one, and if Apple decided to keep archiving old releases. And if you can manage to get on iOS 5 in the first place, either by never upgrading or by downgrading somehow.
I've actually been chipping away at it constantly but since you haven't noticed let me put it together for you. They both have problems, and you are living in a fairy tale world if you think otherwise.Recent one star reviews of app users who can't use it anymore. Don't be a trailblazer, kids. That sounds like a lot of work, researching every game for the nebulous day it might not work anymore.
Again, tons more work than N64. That's my thesis that you're failing to attack.
I'm a proponent of platforms that are willing to grow to move on and expand when they are young into something that will ultimately be remarkably stable just like OS X did. Apple abandoned Rosetta for a reason."modern OS" defense force huh...
So you're a proponent for 'production ready' platforms that deprecate and deliberately break their core API regularly, which in turn incur addition costs (Not just money. Developer time is costly too) due to constant R&D to main compatibility with potentially little to no gain for the developer??? That's really the take away from that statement...