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[Zzoram]

DA2 recycled the same dungeon dozens of times, dramatically simplified combat, and looked ugly. The Witcher 2 is what they should be looking at for Dragon Age 3.

 

[birdchili]

And I hate when people only consider combat with gameplay.

it would happen less if there were more games where you made decisions out-of-combat that impacted your experience at all.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd done. We understand that and we're listening.

hahaohwow.gif

 

[subversus]

it would happen less if there were more games where you made decisions out-of-combat that impacted your experience at all.

while we're on that, what games have done it? Like really?

I don't remember Fallout 1-2 that good, but they did it if my memory serves me right.

The Witcher 2... Fallout New Vegas applies too I think. What else?

 

[Snuggles]

What else?

The choices you make in conversations in Alpha Protocol can alter the way missions play out. I've heard that the final mission can be much different depending on the choices you make and the people you side with.

Man, the game was so fun. It's sad that something half baked like DA2 could score much higher and sell so much more.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The choices you make in conversations in Alpha Protocol can alter the way missions play out. I've heard that the final mission can be much different depending on the choices you make and the people you side with.

Man, the game was so fun. It's sad that something half baked like DA2 could score much higher and sell so much more.

Alpha Protocol was awesome. I played through it three times and each time was quite a different experience. It's too bad they didn't really get the whole shooting enemies part right. It would have been less of a problem if there weren't unavoidable combat situations in the game.

 

[subversus]

yes, Alpha Protocol is certainly the case.

Bloodlines.... YES, but it depends more on a character build than your decisions.

 

[HK-47]

yes, Alpha Protocol is certainly the case.

Bloodlines.... YES, but it depends more on a character build than your decisions.

You are only taking into account very obvious changes, arent you? And no, Bloodlines definitely has lots of dialogue that affect things.

 

[birdchili]

the problem with conversation/dialog-tree "gameplay" is that you often don't get the same sort of understanding of how your choices have consequence (compared to combat)... sometimes it seems random, sometimes predictable, but painfully simple, and not very interesting (ie: i can intimidate this guy because i have a high intimidate stat).

i thought persona 3 did a half-decent job, as the conversations/time management stuff has a fairly deep interplay with the combat system (whom you spend time with mostly, but you also need to be able to figure out what people want to hear to advance... optimizing things requires you be a bit of a manipulative ass rather than a role-player, but that's kind-of interesting in itself).

 

[water_wendi]

Because other RPGs arent structured like Torment. Its an evolution of the text adventure in the skin of an RPG. And I hate when people only consider combat with gameplay. And while Torment's world is taken from Planescape, thats a TTRPG, so its made for creating stories. Not to mention matching up to Planescape, probably the most interesting and best written TT universe ever, is a pretty mean feat.

Yea. i think most people dont get that the dialogue is the gameplay. Combat is a miniscule part of the game. You can run by almost all of it and if you get caught.. oh noes!.. you resurrect and continue on again.

 

[subversus]

You are only taking into account very obvious changes, arent you? And no, Bloodlines definitely has lots of dialogue that affect things.

yes, I'm talking about major changes. Bloodlines did a lot of "if you have high stats you can talk your way inside this mansion" stuff. And to my shame I always opt out for bail out option on my playthroughs, so I don't know how my decisions affected the ending. One day I'll suffer through this, may be this summer.

 

[hitmon]

Well I'm one of those fans they lost. Dragon Age 2 was really a steaming pile of crap. As far as I'm concerned this series is dead.

 

[TheChaos]

They should just cut the romances out. You don't see sappy ass romances in Game of Thrones or Borgias, do you? No, you see sappy ass romances on the Lifetime channel.

The female fans looooooooove the romances. Seriously, go search around on Deviantart if you want proof. One poster on the official message boards said that they refuse to play a Bioware game if it does not have romances in it. They also now have a sub-forum in Mass Effect 3 dedicated to the romances.

 

[Nekofrog]

The more these people try to explain away our problems with Dragon Age 2, the more they shine a flashlight on their sheer incompetence.

 

[Snuggles]

The female fans looooooooove the romances. Seriously, go search around on Deviantart if you want proof. One poster on the official message boards said that they refuse to play a Bioware game if it does not have romances in it. They also now have a sub-forum in Mass Effect 3 dedicated to the romances.

It's weird, but at the same time not surprising that it has that effect. There are a lot of lonely people out there and I guess the silly romance plots in Bioware's games appeal to that group, it helps them pretend that someone could actually love and admire them. I just hope that Bioware are aware of the depravity that they are responsible for, I've seen fan arts that you wouldn't believe.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

oh, I also like Jacob because he was extremely normal and therefore resembled a real human (and was labeled "bland" and "uninteresting" because of it).

He was bland because his character arc was mostly off screen.

His daddy issues are about 99% resolved by the time you meet him and his Loyalty mission(i.e. the meat of every ME2 character) only gives him a tiny bit of closure.

Then again I have an inherent problem with the idea of a character developing because you ask them to, anyway.

 

[truly101]

The Witcher 2, Bioshock, Planescape Torment, Vampires Masquerade Bloodlines and some other games had a great cast of characters. Your argument became foul almost 10 years ago. I'd add Red Dead Redemption there but these are just cutscenes.

From what I've seen of Geralt, he may be a good video game character, but he doesn't really strike me as someone that really expands beyond a cartoon character. Same with Bioshock, I've played it. The characters are good within the context of a video game, but they're little more than cartoon characters in terms of complexity. Lets not kid ourselves here.

 

[subversus]

He was bland because his character arc was mostly off screen.

His daddy issues are about 99% resolved by the time you meet him and his Loyalty mission(i.e. the meat of every ME2 character) only gives him a tiny bit of closure.

Then again I have an inherent problem with the idea of a character developing because you ask them to, anyway.

I didn't like his loyal mission that much. It made him into an average Bioware character. He should have shown at least some affection for his father no matter what the man did.

Also I have no problems with a character ark being off screen. What matters is how he/she acts during missions and says during dialogues. Thane had this ark in the game but I didn't like him as a character (Dennis, forgive me!).

 

[Loxley]

They're missing the fact that many of us were simply annoyed that the game was clearly rushed in 18 months, and it showed.

Boy it sure was fun going through that same goddamn cave over and over and over again.

 

[MesserWolf]

It's weird, but at the same time not surprising that it has that effect. There are a lot of lonely people out there and I guess the silly romance plots in Bioware's games appeal to that group, it helps them pretend that someone could actually love and admire them. I just hope that Bioware are aware of the depravity that they are responsible for, I've seen fan arts that you wouldn't believe.

and you found those just by mistake isn't it ?

Spoiler

just kidding ;P

 

[WanderingWind]

I didn't like his loyal mission that much. It made him into an average Bioware character. He should have shown at least some affection for his father no matter what the man did.

Also I have no problems with a character ark being off screen. What matters is how he/she acts during missions and says during dialogues. Thane had this ark in the game but I didn't like him as a character (Dennis, forgive me!).

How much affection should a guy show another guy that they haven't seen since childhood who has turned into a raping, murdering scum bag?

 

[ProtoCents]

What's crazy is that after all of the DLC that Origins had, DAII is going to have no DLC other than the day 1 DLC.

 

[subversus]

From what I've seen of Geralt, he may be a good video game character, but he doesn't really strike me as someone that really expands beyond a cartoon character. Same with Bioshock, I've played it. The characters are good within the context of a video game, but they're little more than cartoon characters in terms of complexity. Lets not kid ourselves here.

lol Andrew Bryan is a brilliant fleshed out character. You might not get him or he might not resonate with you, but that's another case. Also you haven't played The Witcher 2 (or even 1), so there's nothing to discuss. Geralt acts as you tell him to. He's not a blank slate, but character's like Letho or Dethmold or Iorveth is what makes The Witcher a good game. Geralt can show his wit in numerous scenes but these are pretty rare moments in the game because he stays neutral and more of a silent warrior type.

Also I guess you haven't played Vampires and Planescape Torment. At least give Red Dead a try, they could make a movie from it and it would be great.

 

[HK-47]

From what I've seen of Geralt, he may be a good video game character, but he doesn't really strike me as someone that really expands beyond a cartoon character. Same with Bioshock, I've played it. The characters are good within the context of a video game, but they're little more than cartoon characters in terms of complexity. Lets not kid ourselves here.

Why do you keep saying cartoon characters? You some animation ghetto junkie? Also you are wrong on Geralt, who is a semi avatar, since he has a defined slant to his personality you cant deviate from. He doesnt really strike you? Have you played the games?

 

[Xamdou]

What's crazy is that after all of the DLC that Origins had, DAII is going to have no DLC other than the day 1 DLC.

Well it makes sense considering the huge fanbase they had for the original DA. They lost tons of fans with DAII so they won't make much money out off DLC content for it.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I absolutely loved DA:O -- the world, the characters, etc.

Didn't even bother with DA "2".

 

[HK-47]

He was bland because his character arc was mostly off screen.

His daddy issues are about 99% resolved by the time you meet him and his Loyalty mission(i.e. the meat of every ME2 character) only gives him a tiny bit of closure.

Then again I have an inherent problem with the idea of a character developing because you ask them to, anyway.

People have a real problem with characters that dont develop because of your choices. But thats so simple in most stories since most of them arent tied to you mind, body and soul, unlike a game like Torment.

Its an issue of people not knowing how to balance and what is a decent balance.

 

[subversus]

How much affection should a guy show another guy that they haven't seen since childhood who has turned into a raping, murdering scum bag?

welp, childhood memories and affections are the most strong ones. He could at least be a bit bitter about the decision (even though he's "a tough man" and shouldn't show it), he brushes the whole thing off just too easy. At least they could add "I closed the book on my childhood" dialogue bit where he elaborates on that. When the father goes away it's a huge trauma for a child. Stephen King found his father a couple (if not more) decades later after he went for cigarettes and never came back. The interviewers say that the only topic that sets King off during an interview is his father. Bioware didn't show it at all.

 

[Trick_GSF]

As much as I was disappointed with Dragon Age 2 I really don't want them to give up on the franchise (which thankfully doesn't seem likely, a new novel was announced just a few hours ago, after all).

I just hope they really do take the criticisms to heart and make Dragon Age 3 with a lot more love and care. Dragon Age 2 received little.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

The problem is EA is now catering to the lowest common denominator with their RPG's: the console market. Witcher 2 was made for the PC crowd and is being ported over to the 360. EA WILL NOT succeed with DA3 unless they create it for the PC crowd. Otherwise it will be the same ole' drivel as DA2.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Why do you keep saying cartoon characters? You some animation ghetto junkie? Also you are wrong on Geralt, who is a semi avatar, since he has a defined slant to his personality you cant deviate from. He doesnt really strike you? Have you played the games?

Now now, Geralt is fairly generic, let's face it. I think he pays the price of the storytelling format and less than stellar source material, and for the character he's meant to be, he's excellent, but he's as nuanced as a cube of concrete.

 

[Diomedeskun]

From what I've seen of Geralt, he may be a good video game character, but he doesn't really strike me as someone that really expands beyond a cartoon character. Same with Bioshock, I've played it. The characters are good within the context of a video game, but they're little more than cartoon characters in terms of complexity. Lets not kid ourselves here.

He's pretty intriguing as a novel character too, and that's saying something since characterization does not always survive translation from another language. He is a rather conflicted character to begin with, which fits in with his portrayal in the games. Even though you are allowed to make important decisions in the games, most of the varying paths you can take are still presented as believable choices for the character as he was in the books.

 

[WanderingWind]

welp, childhood memories and affections are the most strong ones. He could at least be a bit bitter about the decision (even though he's "a tough man" and shouldn't show it), he brushes the whole thing off just too easy. At least they could add "I closed the book on my childhood" dialogue bit where he elaborates on that. When the father goes away it's a huge trauma for a child. Stephen King found his father a couple (if not more) decades later after he went for cigarettes and never came back. The interviewers say that the only topic that sets King off during an interview is his father. Bioware didn't show it at all.

Nah, see, you just wanted Jacob the character to react differently. He just didn't like the guy - and for good reason. It was mentioned he was a stranger before the mission, and during, he found out the stranger was a raping, murderous bastard. He didn't brush it off immediately, but he doesn't get all emo and angsty about it - unlike pretty much everybody else on that fucking ship.

Normany 2 might as well have been named the USS Daddy Hates Me.

 

[Snuggles]

Also you are wrong on Geralt, who is a semi avatar, since he has a defined slant to his personality you cant deviate from. He doesnt really strike you? Have you played the games?

Agreed. There is some room for interpretation with Geralt, since the player has some control over his actions, but he is still an strong character. Plus, he's a witcher, they're meant to be mysterious and impartial. But The Witcher is more about fleshing out the characters that surround Geralt. Roche and Iorveth alone put most of Bioware's recent characters to shame, and Dandelion is a fucking awesome dude.

 

[Confidence Man]

As much as I was disappointed with Dragon Age 2 I really don't want them to give up on the franchise (which thankfully doesn't seem likely, a new novel was announced just a few hours ago, after all).

I just hope they really do take the criticisms to heart and make Dragon Age 3 with a lot more love and care. Dragon Age 2 received little.

Don't get your hopes up. Dragon Age 3 will be Dragon Age 2 with some tweaks and kinect support.

 

[WanderingWind]

Now now, Geralt is fairly generic, let's face it. I think he pays the price of the storytelling format and less than stellar source material, and for the character he's meant to be, he's excellent, but he's as nuanced as a cube of concrete.

Whatever. He's a mutant in a world that doesn't understand him, he's totally the strongest guy on the playground (nobody would pants Geralt of Rivia!) and all the bitches love him! Plus, he's magic.

 

[HK-47]

Nah, see, you just wanted Jacob the character to react differently. He just didn't like the guy - and for good reason. It was mentioned he was a stranger before the mission, and during, he found out the stranger was a raping, murderous bastard. He didn't brush it off immediately, but he doesn't get all emo and angsty about it - unlike pretty much everybody else on that fucking ship.

Normany 2 might as well have been named the USS Daddy Hates Me.

The need for all characters to have crippling psychological issues is getting pretty annoying. But any attempt at normalcy or smaller problems would likely get accused of being boring.

 

[Drek]

From what I've seen of Geralt, he may be a good video game character, but he doesn't really strike me as someone that really expands beyond a cartoon character. Same with Bioshock, I've played it. The characters are good within the context of a video game, but they're little more than cartoon characters in terms of complexity. Lets not kid ourselves here.

Bwuh?

Geralt comes from a successful series of fantasy novels that pretty much center entirely around the complexity of him as a character.

 

[WanderingWind]

The need for all characters to have crippling psychological issues is getting pretty annoying. But any attempt at normalcy or smaller problems would likely get accused of being boring.

Heh. Like Jacob. I liked that they put a normal, actual adult human on the ship.

 

[Trick_GSF]

Don't get your hopes up. Dragon Age 3 will be Dragon Age 2 with some tweaks and kinect support.

Maybe so. If that is the case I will simply consider the series gone beyond recovery and let it go.

Though I enjoyed Origins to such a point that I'm willing to give them another chance.

 

[subversus]

Nah, see, you just wanted Jacob the character to react differently. He just didn't like the guy - and for good reason. It was mentioned he was a stranger before the mission, and during, he found out the stranger was a raping, murderous bastard. He didn't brush it off immediately, but he doesn't get all emo and angsty about it - unlike pretty much everybody else on that fucking ship.

Normany 2 might as well have been named the USS Daddy Hates Me.

I thought the dad left 10 years ago, so Jacob being about thirty spent all his childhood and teenage years with him. How is that for "a stranger"??

 

[HK-47]

Heh. Like Jacob. I liked that they put a normal, actual adult human on the ship.

True but because you dont really get to have really good conversations with most of the cast (like outside of Legion and Mordin) he ends up actually being boring.

 

[WanderingWind]

Maybe so. If that is the case I will simply consider the series gone beyond recovery and let it go.

Though I enjoyed Origins to such a point that I'm willing to give them another chance.

Same here. I'm not writing them off completely, but I sure as fuck aren't believing anything is changing until I see it. They still have time to right the ship. I mean, Devil May Cry 2 was pretty fucked up, but 3 and 4 are masterpieces of their genre.

I thought the dad left 10 years ago, so Jacob being about thirty spent all his childhood and teenage years with him. How is that for "a stranger"??

Because his dad was in space for the large portion of his life. He disappeared 10 years ago. I just played the mission like, 2 days ago. My memory might suck, but I don't think it's that bad lol

 

[Snuggles]

The problem is EA is now catering to the lowest common denominator with their RPG's: the console market. Witcher 2 was made for the PC crowd and is being ported over to the 360. EA WILL NOT succeed with DA3 unless they create it for the PC crowd. Otherwise it will be the same ole' drivel as DA2.

Agreed, and this is the problem. Rather than trying to make games that some people will love, they're trying to make games that everyone will like. Like almost every other studio out there, they're desperate to have the next big cashcow franchise. The more they try to expand the audience and and appeal people that don't even care about the genre in the first place, the more they move away from the fanbase that made them successful in the first place. In the end, we're left with homogenized slop.

Maybe DA2's sales vs. DAO are a good indicator that this isn't a smart approach. We can only hope that's the cas.e

 

[Gaz Pwnage]

DA2's combat was fine, I though it was ok, I enjoyed it. The rest of the game however I did not. I put ~120 hours into DA:O playing every origin to completion and iv played DA2 once to completion for 20 hours.

In my eyes, the only way Bioware can redeem themselves is by releasing the missing half (20 Hours) of DA2 on an expansion disc (Like awakenings), finishing the story, for £20 / $30 -- Or free to people who wasted their money buying DA2 (not going to happen).

Unless they fix DA2 with like above, and expansion, or some good cheap / free dlc, I am not interested in DA3.

 

[subversus]

Agreed. There is some room for interpretation with Geralt, since the player has some control over his actions, but he is still an strong character. Plus, he's a witcher, they're meant to be mysterious and impartial. But The Witcher is more about fleshing out the characters that surround Geralt. Roche and Iorveth alone put most of Bioware's recent characters to shame, and Dandelion is a fucking awesome dude.

The best characters are Henselt and Dethmold. Dethmold sees people as ingredients for his potions intrigues which he brews. People are not human beings for him, he judges them on a basis of how they can serve him like if they were some mineral containing rebis, sulfur and so on. Good/bad - they all serve him equally. There are a lot of nuances in dialogue with him that show this attitude.

And Henselt. He's asshole but he's not a coward and it's hard not to give him due. He may be short-sighted, but not stupid. He's clearly capable as a king, he was raised as a king with all good and bad that this kind of upbringing entails. What impressed me is that he remains an asshole even in the face of his possible death just because he knows no better.

 

[Snuggles]

^ I've only done the Iorveth path, but I look forward to getting a better look at those characters in my Roche playthrough. That's what I love about The Witcher games, though, the characters are so multifaceted and ambiguous.

 

[subversus]

Same here. I'm not writing them off completely, but I sure as fuck aren't believing anything is changing until I see it. They still have time to right the ship. I mean, Devil May Cry 2 was pretty fucked up, but 3 and 4 are masterpieces of their genre.



Because his dad was in space for the large portion of his life. He disappeared 10 years ago. I just played the mission like, 2 days ago. My memory might suck, but I don't think it's that bad lol

Jacob is about 25-30. His dad dissapeared 10 years ago. So Jacob spent more time with him than without him. 15-20 are the most important years if we talk about family. So no way Jacob could brush him off like that. That man raised him.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Don't get your hopes up. Dragon Age 3 will be Dragon Age 2 with some tweaks and kinect support.

That's a brilliant idea!

No more buttons; just flail your arms for awesome! Shout at the TV screen to choose a dialogue option and have your avatar say something kind of similar! Do a thrusting motion to pick the romance option!

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

The female fans looooooooove the romances. Seriously, go search around on Deviantart if you want proof. One poster on the official message boards said that they refuse to play a Bioware game if it does not have romances in it. They also now have a sub-forum in Mass Effect 3 dedicated to the romances.

There's plenty of female (and wildly more intelligent) fans that love what something like The Borgias and Game of Thrones offers.

Let them have their Twilight.

Infact...Bioware could give the Dragon Age franchise away to Obsidian.

Then Bioware could focus solely on a Twilight RPG.

Problem solved.