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EA: "We lost some fans with Dragon Age 2"
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WanderingWind said:
So he's Wolverine? not impressed. I've only seen him from cutscenes from both games so I can't remark the overall strength of his character until I play the game in context. Based on what I've seen though, he didn't really strike me as a characters that breaks the video game character confines. His novel counterpart is probably 100x times better
Andrew Ryan...ehhh, he worked as sort of a driving force for the 1st half of the game, far better than the actual antagonist. He's still the template of the failed dictator, half mad with ambition, half resigned to his own doom when things don't go his way. Thats not unlike Cobra Commander. CC just wanted to draw his face on the moon with his superlaser. The proletariates just didn't understand.
I'm not saying Geralt, Andrew Ryan or John Marston are bad characters per se, more like I don't expect video game characters to have anymore depth or complexity than your average cartoon character. Those that push that boundary don't push them as much as some believe. I have wonderfully low expectations so I'm seldom disappointed and at times even pleasantly surprised. I'm looking forward to playing TW2, and I'm sure I'll like Geralt, I just doubt he's really going to push that boundary for me. Thats all.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
truly101 said:
What's your idea of a truly complex character? Give me a few examples so I can see where you're coming from. Any medium.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
HK-47 said:
Sure. I'm just wondering where he is coming from as he seems to think every video game character is a cartoon character (whatever the hell that means).
Confidence Man
Member
Trick_GSF said:
It's already gone. It was gone before Origins even came out, when they decided games like that aren't the future for Bioware.
VisanidethDM
Banned
WanderingWind said:
Yes, he's a bro, and it's not always a bad thing. Just saying he's Generic Brooding Badass #26457 (Done Right).
I'm all for scrapping Dragon Age all together. I liked Origins, but the settings and lore are entirely forgettable and not really worth saving. They could pass it on to someone awesome like Obsidian, but I'd rather they worked with an actually interesting setting instead.
VisanidethDM
Banned
truly101 said:
I've not gone far into the novels, but I consider The Witcher 2 an outstanding example of videogame storytelling, while the novels are pretty low quality fantasy romps. I reserve judgement to when I finish reading all of them, but for now it's pretty bad stuff.
truly101 said:
Geralt won't push any boundaries but some other characters are damn good. And again Geralt is an introvert who won't give out his real intention, feelings and emotions. The only part when he shows his real wit is on Roche's path at the end if you go with Roche in Chapter III and if you chose appropriate dialogue lines. Also he has no real attachement to women because of his upbringing and because he already has a woman who took his heart.
And the most impressive trait about Andrew Ryan is his integrity and will. His final scene shows a man who had it to choose impossible and make it possible.
VisanidethDM said:
no, you're right about novels. Short stories are ok (some of them).
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
VisanidethDM said:
I don't disagree. But Geralt in the video games can be fairly called flat. Now, Roche, Triss and Iorveth? They're fantastic characters that stand up in any medium.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Zefah said:
Excellent and complex question.
I'd love to answer but my girlfriend has arrived. Tomorrow I will.
Zefah said:
It means video games, like most cartoons are generally poor vehicles for great character development and exploration. Its not to say you can't find engaging characters within those mediums but your expectations should be tempered on how far that develoment is going to go based on the medium. I'm talking about your average cartoon vs your average videogame. I tend to make more allowances for video game characters based on the medium because I just don't expect that much from them.
HK-47 said:
Yes thats what I'm talking about. You disagree that most game characters fall within the confines of Saturday cereal fodder (I prefer the weekday afternoon version).
Now I'm keeping that separate from animation and anime. I like a lot of those DC and Marvel features you can get from netflix.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
truly101 said:
So, what are some examples of complex characters with "great development and exploration"?
I don't know what the translation is like (and trust me, the books do require a splendid translator with excellent understanding of Polish and English), but the short stories are excellent. I heard only the first volume was translated, the second was skipped, so there's no story continuity. The novels are much worse, though, the further you get the worse they get unfortunately.VisanidethDM said:
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Lol come on. You make a bunch of posts calling other peoples tastes garbage and then say that revealing what you think is good is a "trap."truly101 said:
I'll never blind buy a Bioware game again. If their trends continue, I won't even pay half price for a Bioware game. Hopefully the real Bioware was making The Old Republic and some shit interns who are now fired made Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. Those are some garbage ass games.
szaromir said:
yes, the second volume is the best. But I started reading Blood of Elves and it's horrible. I don't think that it's a translator's fault. When an author resorts to something like "an elf with a beatiful face" instead of describing this face so I could SEE it and think "what a BEAUTIFUL face" it's time to close the book and read something better.
water_wendi said:
Show me anywhere where I called anyone elses tastes garbage? I like a lot of video game characters but as I've stated I don't think the medium offers a lot in the way of character development more than a saturday morning cartoon does. I'd be impuning my own tastes if I was passing judgement on others based on that. In fact I said I had incredibly low expectations when it comes to character development in video games that I'm either seldom disappointed or occasionally pleasantly surprised. People interpret things their own way I suppose.
And yes, thats a common list warz tactic, though I'm not saying that was Zefah's intent.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i consider comparisons to "Saturday cereal fodder" essentially the same as calling into question peoples taste as garbage. i dont even really disagree with you but to state that you are being led into a "trap" by revealing what you think to be good and worthwhile characters is laughable.truly101 said:
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
truly101 said:
I agree that Jaime Lannister is an excellent character who shows a lot of development throughout the books. The Song of Ice and Fire series is full of similarly great characters, in my opinion.
Anyway, no trap intended. I was just curious what you think makes a good character.
water_wendi said:
I'll stand by the saturday cereal fodder, and if people want to be offended by that then thats their problem. Thats certainly not the intent, but to me its a reality. I fucking love Cobra Commander btw, CC > every video game villain ever.
And yes, its a common tactic to troll someone's example of whatever they've been called to task to defend or elaborate.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Ah okay then. i understand your point now.truly101 said:
And there you have 4 huge ass books to explore him and others, movies with good characters often devote 2 hours to specifically explore that character's growth. Video games could do that, but they aren't there yet. More often you'll see something more in line with a saturday morning cartoon, maybe thats a better way to put it. With Andrew Ryan, John Martson, Geralt James Sunderland or Glados, those characters have more depth than the average VG character, but I don't think they've quite advanced the medium to a new level in character development or storytelling just yet.Zefah said:
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Deleted member 17706
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witness said:
Why do say shit like this? Is it your intent to somehow invalidate the opinions of those who dislike the game? Are you implying that the people who dislike the game have no logical reason to do so? People tend to have very specific reasons for liking or disliking something.
How about posting why you liked the game, or why you think the criticism against the game isn't justified, instead of just spewing some bullshit meme that adds nothing to the conversation?
thechristoph
Sir!
Zefah said:
GAF's dislike for DA2 is insurmountable. Every time anything about the game comes up, those who didn't like it just pile on. It's not a conversation anymore, it's one-way hating.
That said, I myself love this game. I have problems with it, but the fun I had outweighed those problems. I did not like the reuse of environments. I got tired of the city. I did not notice huge problems with the wave-based combat, and I enjoyed the character development.
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Deleted member 17706
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thechristoph said:
You word it like there's some conspiracy or secret agenda. When the majority dislikes a game, it's not surprising that most posts about said game are highly negative.
It doesn't help when all of the news for said game is about "how the developer is responding to criticism", or "how the developer will listen to their fans' complaints when making the sequel", etc.
bigboss370
Member
i actually enjoyed gameplay in DA2, its the narrative/story and production values is where it fell short.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
truly101 said:
Funny. I was saying just the very same thing to a friend today at work. He develops into quite a character over the series.
I have a much kinder opinion of FFXIII with all its myriad of flaws than I do DA2. There are some things I liked about DA2, its not strictly hate, but its such a blatant in the face cash in that its hard to respect. I can understand design decisions that went horribly awry, misreading your audience's tastes, things that just get lost in the process. I can't understand using the exact same map layout for locations that are not supposed to be close to each other, I can't understand how a city that is really supposed to be the driving force of the story is soooooo boring. I don't understand how spiders are dropping down from empty sky? These are some fucking magical ass spiders.
Looks like VisanidethDM is in another Dragon Age thread telling people how crappy DA:O is. Heh, heh.
Anyway, I'm glad they're owning up to the fact that a lot of fans didn't like the second one. I didn't hate it, but the characters, combat, story, gear, and ending were all subpar to me. The change to the graphics at least from the console perspective wasn't bad, but the game was horribly rushed and really lacked in the character department. Damn, Anders sucked, too. Took a great character and screwed him up for no real reason. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not holding my breath.
Anyway, I'm glad they're owning up to the fact that a lot of fans didn't like the second one. I didn't hate it, but the characters, combat, story, gear, and ending were all subpar to me. The change to the graphics at least from the console perspective wasn't bad, but the game was horribly rushed and really lacked in the character department. Damn, Anders sucked, too. Took a great character and screwed him up for no real reason. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not holding my breath.
I didn't get the innovations 
Game, as a whole, is dreadful. The combat is improved, the encounter design is shattified. Everything else is abysmal.
Because it is truly shit.
There's plenty of opportunity to argue against "haters." People that spew garbage and shout down discussion are banned. Coxswain likes it (I think) and he consistently makes some of the most well-reasoned posts on the board.
Game, as a whole, is dreadful. The combat is improved, the encounter design is shattified. Everything else is abysmal.
thechristoph said:
Because it is truly shit.
There's plenty of opportunity to argue against "haters." People that spew garbage and shout down discussion are banned. Coxswain likes it (I think) and he consistently makes some of the most well-reasoned posts on the board.
cartman414
Member
"Haters gonna hate" needs to be added to the list of bannable memes. Anyone else agree here?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
bigdaddygamebot said:
Oh yes, now there's an intellectual property worthy of the intelectual prowess of BioWare.
elrechazado
Banned
I love how it's that gamers didn't love the "innovations". lol
Fimbulvetr
Member
cartman414 said:
It sort of already is.
cartman414
Member
Oops. Already is on the short list. Thought it wasn't, given how many people are still saying it.