Support NeoGAF

[poisonelf]

Baldur's Gate had multiplayer i.e. that would be a step in the right direction i.e. they won't include it.

Bioware's previous works, Baldur's Gate 1+2 and NWN, featured multiplayer. As long as it not along the lines of ME3's (potentially) capture the flag or horde modes; would it exactly be a big suprise, and why nitpick?

Wow, I honestly have no recollection of that Could be that I didn't care to even look for it in such games.
But even so, you know what I mean, what viewtifulsub said. A CoD type of multiplayer that they'll somehow find a ridiculous way to cram into DA3.

 

[infinityBCRT]

He means for example in oblivion all caves and dungeons were shitty. Instead of going the bioware route "If it doesn't work, remove it" they have tried and for skyrim they will be hand made in order to make them more interesting.

That and also their approach in pairing down the armor customization in DA2 and ripping out the inventory/loot entirely in ME2.

In skyrim instead of ripping out those systems they made them out of fucking awesomeness.

 

[Kosma]

Think the Bioware/EA approach is more like:

1. Build street cred with part 1, while trailers focus on action there is some rpg.
2. Cash in with action oriented part 2, trailers focus on action cause its an action/adventure game.
3. Promise to learn for part 3.

= profit

 

[water_wendi]

If Laidlaw is anywhere near DA3 they have learned nothing.

 

[VisanidethDM]

If Laidlaw is anywhere near DA3 they have learned nothing.

I think you're grossly overextimating his influence on the overall direction the game took.

 

[Patryn]

What I'm willing to bet is that DA2 started selling better than DA:O (probably thanks to the Signature Edition, one of the greatest scams in game retail history), but then sales fell off a cliff as everyone got word of how terrible it is. We're getting these apologies after EA and Bioware crunched the numbers and discovered that the chance of them ever surpassing DA:O's sales is now probably zero.

I'm also guessing that they're hard at work trying to craft some DLC that will address major issues, and that's why we all we've heard about it, despite being promised, are the three concept art pictures.

 

[water_wendi]

I think you're grossly overextimating his influence on the overall direction the game took.

i didnt say that.

His rude and stalwart defense of such a blatantly shitty product has earned him an automatic "no go" for whatever game lists his credit.

 

[Woo-Fu]

When your only innovation is putting the streamlining coat of paint over the dumbing-down process you are going to lose some fans.

 

[water_wendi]

What I'm willing to bet is that DA2 started selling better than DA:O (probably thanks to the Signature Edition, one of the greatest scams in game retail history), but then sales fell off a cliff as everyone got word of how terrible it is. We're getting these apologies after EA and Bioware crunched the numbers and discovered that the chance of them ever surpassing DA:O's sales is now probably zero.

I'm also guessing that they're hard at work trying to craft some DLC that will address major issues, and that's why we all we've heard about it, despite being promised, are the three concept art pictures.

Theres a chart thats floating around the Bioware forums. i would post it here but i think it uses chartz numbers.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

Slightly off topic but why does everyone expect The Old Republic to fail?

 

[dimb]

Slightly off topic but why does everyone expect The Old Republic to fail?

Because it's a WoW clone made by the people who worked on Star Wars Galaxies and Warhammer Online.

 

[npm0925]

Everything about Dragon Age 2 is horrible. The characters, the story, the graphics, the soundtrack and voice work, the inventory system, the battle system, the environments. Did I miss anything? I am doubtful that any amount of additional dev time could salvage this turd of a game.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

It's weird isn't it seeing as reviews told me it's the pinnacle of role playing games and exactly what video games are supposed to be.

I wonder if the Escapist will ever live that down.

 

[Darklord]

Because it's a WoW clone made by the people who worked on Star Wars Galaxies and Warhammer Online.

Except most people who have posted beta impressions are saying it's much, much more than WoW and a really good game.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Exactly. The innovations we would have embraced - the art design changes, the silly changes to the UI, the streamlined storyline even.

IF - IF - the game had been executed as promised. They've admitted they re-used areas to save money. They admitted they simplified quests to save money. THESE are the outstanding problems with Dragon Age 2. There was simply no effort and care in its construction. The design wasn't deep enough to contain anything remotely decent. The action elements were reasonably entertaining but when people say they were Dynasty Warriors-eque, as if that was an insult, they forget that by comparison, Dynasty Warriors is a better RPG than Dragon Age 2 is an action game.

I loved the idea of DA2's setting, the idea of it being in the same place over a period of time. That's what makes it even more tragic. They might try and clone DA:O's story and pacing next, when the setting was one of the few things that had promise.

 

[water_wendi]

Slightly off topic but why does everyone expect The Old Republic to fail?

i am someone who expects it to fail. Let me note that i think the game looks spectacular, and that i have thought so from the very first. The problem lies in EAs expectation of the game. If they need 1 million subscribers to break even the game is over before its even started. True, the game could take off and honestly, this is about the best shot any other MMO is going to have to displace Wow. Since the decline of Wow im more optimistic that TOR will be successful but i still have a feeling that within a year or two of launch EA will shutter Bioware at worst and gut them at best.

 

[Zalasta]

Simply put, Bioware doesn't fix the fundamental problems in their games. Instead, they just strip them out and dumb down the design in the sequel. It was evident in Mass Effect 2, but they got away with it because it actually had some great improvements to lessen the effect (it also benefited from twice the development time). Unfortunately, Dragon Age 2 was just bad all around with very little to praise.

 

[Patryn]

Slightly off topic but why does everyone expect The Old Republic to fail?

First, most major MMOs to launch in WoW's wake haven't exactly been smashing successes.

Secondly, everything I've read has indicated that it plays exactly like WoW, just with a different skin.

Third, EA has bet the farm on this MMO. If it doesn't succeed, and succeed FAST, you can expect a massive restructuring of the entire company, with probably the entire executive team being shoved out the door.

If it bombs hard enough, it has the potential to take down the entire company. That's how much money they've bet on it.

 

[Kosma]

Because it's a WoW clone made by the people who worked on Star Wars Galaxies and Warhammer Online.

Also because to keep MMO players paying you will have to offer them something new, not a reskin + story. The drop off will be massive the second people realize they are playing WoW with cutscenes. WoW changed the MMO game. Old Republic adds story to the mix, and maybe some minor changes but its not a game changer.

You need a game changer in the MMO subscription biz to make it nowadays (Eve Online!) otherwise your future is in F2P I think (Guild Wars, Lotro, Conan... millions of other F2P games).

 

[Jerk]

Cue them adding multiplayer in DA3.

Yes.

That is a good thing.

Except most people who have posted beta impressions are saying it's much, much more than WoW and a really good game.

MMO-cycle.

Besides, being better than WOW is actually not enough quite yet.

 

[WanderingWind]

Gee, BioWare. Maybe you should've listened from the start.

On the other hand, I'm trying to figure out what they're about to try to sell Dragon Age fans on. This is the second time in as many weeks that they've admitted DA2 was garbage and apologized for it. That's usually how actors who are promoting new projects do when coming off a shit film.

 

[Patryn]

I've said it before, but the person who I really feel bad for is Felicia Day.

She has to sell people on a Web series based on this misfire.

Spoiler

Not really, but I do laugh every time I see her tweet about the series.

 

[water_wendi]

On the other hand, I'm trying to figure out what they're about to try to sell Dragon Age fans on. This is the second time in as many weeks that they've admitted DA2 was garbage and apologized for it. That's usually how actors who are promoting new projects do when coming off a shit film.

Upcoming DLC maybe?

 

[WanderingWind]

Upcoming DLC maybe?

I was thinking that, too. But how the fuck do you say "Hey, guys, sorry about selling you that piece of shit DA2. We hear you. It sucked harder than middle school production of Battlefield: Earth. To make up for making your play that piece of shit, here is more of that shit! Friends now?"

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

Wasn't the fan reception to DA2 pretty negative the first time they showed it? Bioware, your long-time fans were your biggest supporters, yet rushing out a product to meet deadlines is not the best way to keep those fans happy.

DA2 was not well received by the gaming community and I personally regret even putting a pre-order on it. Heck, I've been playing Origins and Awakenings far more than DA2 at all.

 

[dimb]

Except most people who have posted beta impressions are saying it's much, much more than WoW and a really good game.

It's too early to judge an upcoming MMO and say it's "more than WoW".

The stuff I've been reading about TOR makes it sound like the game is having difficulty transitioning between group and solo play and that the story stuff is the real focus of the game. That does not bode well for the longevity of the game.

People actually into MMOs are much more likely to be interested in Guild Wars 2, and won't have to pay to play monthly for it either.

 

[Kosma]

I think this is also damage control to salvage Old Republic.

I mean half of old republic is riding on the fact Bioware are some kind of story and rpg gods, but how can anyone expect their MMO to be grand if they can't even publish a stand alone game which doesnt reuse the same dungeon design every room?

 

[water_wendi]

I think this is also damage control to salvage Old Republic.

I mean half of old republic is riding on the fact Bioware are some kind of story and rpg gods, but how can anyone expect their MMO to be grand if they can't even publish a stand alone game which doesnt reuse the same dungeon design every room?

You know what.. you are probably right.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

First, most major MMOs to launch in WoW's wake haven't exactly been smashing successes.

Secondly, everything I've read has indicated that it plays exactly like WoW, just with a different skin.

Third, EA has bet the farm on this MMO. If it doesn't succeed, and succeed FAST, you can expect a massive restructuring of the entire company, with probably the entire executive team being shoved out the door.

If it bombs hard enough, it has the potential to take down the entire company. That's how much money they've bet on it.

Damn. MMOs. Serious business.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

"As we think about where we take the franchise next, we're going to take that into consideration and really engage them,"

Don't bother...seriously.

I think this is also damage control to salvage Old Republic.

I mean half of old republic is riding on the fact Bioware are some kind of story and rpg gods, but how can anyone expect their MMO to be grand if they can't even publish a stand alone game which doesnt reuse the same dungeon design every room?

Yep...this would explain their half-ass apologies of late.

 

[WanderingWind]

I think this is also damage control to salvage Old Republic.

I mean half of old republic is riding on the fact Bioware are some kind of story and rpg gods, but how can anyone expect their MMO to be grand if they can't even publish a stand alone game which doesnt reuse the same dungeon design every room?

Ah. Yup. This is it.

 

[Patryn]

They probably can't like people asking questions like "Is Bioware even a triple-A developer anymore?"

 

[water_wendi]

Its official.. if TOR fails its Mike Laidlaws fault.

 

[Sysgen]

I put over 100 hours into DA:O and loved every minute of it. I bought every bit of DLC and paid full price for Awakening also. To say I was hyped for DA2 is an understatement. The fact that, after reading numerous reviews and impressions I still haven't even purchased it, is telling. Fix yo game, guys. I really love this mythos but please don't fuck it up again.

Same here and a few of my friends also. 100+ hours multiple play through but we refuse to purchase DA2. The franchise barring a miracle is dead to us. Purchased DA1 Ultimate in a recent Steam sale for $19.99 and will just play through again.

 

[Confidence Man]

But to be honest, we lost some fans as well. They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd done.

They aren't aware of shit if they think it was their "innovations" that fans didn't like.

I hope there isn't a Dragon Age 3, or if there is, that it bombs so hard there isn't a 4.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Sadly, I thought that the writing in DA2 was actually better than DA:O. Both are extremely weak, but I dug the story about the rise of a single noble a lot better than the Generic Fantasy 101 plot of DA:O. If DA2 was polished to a correct level it could have been a solid game.

But like I said, both games have incredibly generic and cliche writing. Bioware needs to do a culling of their writing staff and pony up and hire real writers. They also need to take risks with their story and writing; add some HBO brilliance instead of the RA Salvatore T for Teen garbage.

 

[Darklord]

It's too early to judge an upcoming MMO and say it's "more than WoW".

The stuff I've been reading about TOR makes it sound like the game is having difficulty transitioning between group and solo play and that the story stuff is the real focus of the game. That does not bode well for the longevity of the game.

People actually into MMOs are much more likely to be interested in Guild Wars 2, and won't have to pay to play monthly for it either.

They've constantly been calling this a story driven MMO so why wouldn't it be? I'm only interested in the story. They've also said that each story is 200 hours long, with 8 classes that's 1600 hours of story, combine that with raids, flashpoints, PVP, that's plenty of content.

And no, this game WILL sell shit loads at launch no matter what. If it bombs it will be because they can't hold a constantly subscriber base and neither EA or Bioware will die because of that. The person who will feel the pain is John Riccitiello who will be finished.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I wonder if the Escapist will ever live that down.

That fuckin guy needs to be fired.

Same here and a few of my friends also. 100+ hours multiple play through but we refuse to purchase DA2. The franchise barring a miracle is dead to us. Purchased DA1 Ultimate in a recent Steam sale for $19.99 and will just play through again.

/signed

 

[RPGCrazied]

Just admit it. It was a rushed product. Its clearly obvious it was, just in the reuse of areas in the game. You didn't lose me, I'll go into Dragon Age III with very high hopes.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

I liked the characters more in DA2 than DA:O myself while I think DA:O had a better main storyline than DA2.

 

[Jhriad]

I think this is also damage control to salvage Old Republic.

I mean half of old republic is riding on the fact Bioware are some kind of story and rpg gods, but how can anyone expect their MMO to be grand if they can't even publish a stand alone game which doesnt reuse the same dungeon design every room?

Hrm you know I didn't think about it but if you'd come to me in 2006 (before ME) and said that Bioware is making a MMORPG I'd tell you you'd be there Day One. If you told me in 2009 after ME & DA:O launched I'd probably be almost as excited. Now? Meh, I'll wait 4-6 months after the release and see what sort of reception it has garnered and if it's on life support after the free month runs out for folks that purchased the game in the first few months.

Same here and a few of my friends also. 100+ hours multiple play through but we refuse to purchase DA2. The franchise barring a miracle is dead to us. Purchased DA1 Ultimate in a recent Steam sale for $19.99 and will just play through again.

Ditto. DA:O certainly wasn't perfect but I was hoping that the sequel would be a further refinement toward a new generation of BG-esque RPGs. Instead what we got kept myself and 3 friends from purchasing the sequel altogether.

 

[VisanidethDM]

They probably can't like people asking questions like "Is Bioware even a triple-A developer anymore?"

Now you're tempting me to make a thread named "Was Bioware ever a triple-A developer?".

 

[water_wendi]

Now you're tempting me to make a thread named "Was Bioware ever a triple-A developer?".

For a period of about 3 years (1998-2001), yes.

 

[Lothars]

Now you're tempting me to make a thread named "Was Bioware ever a triple-A developer?".

The answer to both questions is yes, they are a Triple A Developer and they have been for many years.

 

[Effect]

Seriously, watching how SW:ToR plays out is going to be very interesting. I will not be surprised if Bioware's continued existence hangs on it in the eyes of EA. Especially if the retention rate has a massive drop off after the first month which is extremely possible. So much has been put into it and Bioware's last few games have had mixed reactions and negative feedback.

 

[Lothars]

Seriously, watching how SW:ToR plays out is going to be very interesting. I will not be surprised if Bioware's continued existence hangs on it in the eyes of EA. Especially if the retention rate has a massive drop off after the first month which is extremely possible. So much has been put into it and Bioware's last few games have had mixed reactions and negative feedback.

not really only bioware game that had really negative feedback recently was DA2 but ME2 was critically acclaimed and is a great game.

I would argue that they have been since Baldur's Gate 1.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

The answer to both questions is yes, they are a Triple A Developer and they have been for many years.

Not according to Develop they're not.

 

[VisanidethDM]

For a period of about 3 years (1998-2001), yes.

I'd argue that even then at least 1 of those As came from external factors. They had the ultimate source material.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Now you're tempting me to make a thread named "Was Bioware ever a triple-A developer?".

They have lots of cash to burn and overhyped games.

So yeah, I'd say they fit the AAA standard.

 

[DanielJr82]

Well if they're listening... my biggest complaint is that the whole game took place in Kirkwall. The city isn't even that big, so a lot of the "otherworldly" feeling from DA:O was gone.

Also, I know the community is split on this, but why does everybody have to be bi? Have dedicated straight romances, dedicated gay romances (if that's your thing), and maybe one bi character. Having everybody bi feels like lazy writing to me. Quit pandering to the people on LiveJournal and the Bioware forums (lot of weirdos there too) and just make romances that make sense.