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EAD Tokyo - A tale of 2 men. Past, Present, Future.

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Koizumi is the new Miyamoto for Nintendo except with an additional emphasis on lore. The only problem is he has not been given the green light to create a full fleshed game that is something completely original. Then again I would love to see what ideas he has crafted inside his head for Zelda.

The new Miyamoto was actually supposed to be Yoichi Yamada. Who Dylan Cuthbert also said was one of the most brilliant designers he ever worked with. Moby Games search Yoichi Yamada and you will find one of the most impressive and varied resumes of any designer. He just has not got the press or notoriety.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
The new Miyamoto was actually supposed to be Yoichi Yamada. Who Dylan Cuthbert also said was one of the most brilliant designers he ever worked with. Moby Games search Yoichi Yamada and you will find one of the most impressive and varied resumes of any designer. He just has not got the press or notoriety.

Because Yamada's been a Zelda workhorse since The Adventure of Link :p

No one likes workhorses!
 
It's not like Sunshine was a bad game.

You can see echoes of its bonus levels in 3D Land.
I don't think it's bad persay and its bonus levels were indeed great, but it's definitely my least favorite ('main') Mario game after NSMBDS (and at least Sunshine had personality; the latter is just a soulless SMB-rehash). FLUDD is gimmicky as hell and felt more often than not just a way to pad the game out rather than aid platforming, the new enemy and character designs range from forgettable to awful (strange that Galaxy's are pretty great, but I'd argue most of those are remixes of pre-existing designs) and blue coin hunting got dangerously close to DK64 levels of boredom for me.
 

Soroc

Member
Koizumi really came up with "Z-targetting"?

I don't remember if its the right person but wasn't the z-targetting idea discussed in one of the iwata asks about zelda. They went to see a play or something and got the idea there the way a samurai would step out of the gang and focus a 1 v 1 match while other enemies waited around or something...
 

Anth0ny

Member
:O
Game Released System(s) Credit(s)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 1991 Super Nintendo Entertainment System Printed art work, layout and story of the manual
Super Mario Kart 1992 Super Nintendo Entertainment System Illustrator
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 1993 Game Boy Story, script writer, manual writer
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 1995 Super Nintendo Entertainment System CG designer
Super Mario 64 1996 Nintendo 64 Assistant director, 3D animator
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 1998 Nintendo 64 3D system director, story, character design (Adult Link), creator of "Z-Targeting System"
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX 1998 Game Boy Color Story, script writer, manual writer
Super Smash Bros. 1999 Nintendo 64 Original game staff
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 2000 Nintendo 64 Game system director, story, creator of "Three-Day System"
Super Mario Sunshine 2002 GameCube Director
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 2002 GameCube Assistant director
Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat 2004 GameCube Director
Super Mario Galaxy 2007 Wii Director, story, game design
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 2008 Wii Special thanks
New Play Control! Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat 2008 Wii Producer
Flipnote Studio 2008 Nintendo DSi Producer, director
Super Mario Galaxy 2 2010 Wii Producer
Donkey Kong Country Returns 2010 Wii Special thanks
Super Mario 3D Land 2011 Nintendo 3DS Producer

Fucking legend.
 
I don't remember if its the right person but wasn't the z-targetting idea discussed in one of the iwata asks about zelda. They went to see a play or something and got the idea there the way a samurai would step out of the gang and focus a 1 v 1 match while other enemies waited around or something...

It was Koizumi. Another director said the team made it to fix an axis problem, then Koizumi interrupted saying he saw a studio show and that's when he brought up the idea. The guy is brilliant and needs his own IP to work on.
 

wrowa

Member
The new Miyamoto was actually supposed to be Yoichi Yamada. Who Dylan Cuthbert also said was one of the most brilliant designers he ever worked with. Moby Games search Yoichi Yamada and you will find one of the most impressive and varied resumes of any designer. He just has not got the press or notoriety.

Varied? He's credited for 17 games, of which 13 have been Zelda games. If the list is true he hasn't touched a Non-Zelda game since a decade.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Varied? He's credited for 17 games, of which 13 have been Zelda games. If the list is true he hasn't touched a Non-Zelda game since a decade.

Sorry. I didn't realize the Moby Games was missing some credits. Super Mario 64. Zelda 2 Adventures of Link. Wave Race 64. Star Fox. Pikmin. Luigi's Mansion. Some BS-X games I can't recall and he was working on Jungle Emperor Leo. It was supposed to be a huge game but was never completed.

But yeah. He worked on a sh****load of Zeldas. But this is Nintendo. Not like you have so many options.
 

wrowa

Member
I agree with the former two but completely disagree with the latter. Sakurai's terrible decisions with Brawl make me question his ability, and the fact that the new Kid Icarus doesn't look all that great just seems to further support that.

I can't quite understand the love Sakurai gets either. What has he done to achieve that? Kirby has always been more of a B-tier series, and Smash Bros lives to a large degree from its fanservice. It's a great multiplayer game, but its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof. (And it's not even of consistant quality: the single player modes of the Smash Bros games have always been so-so so far, even though they tried to put more effort into Brawl's adventure mode...)
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
I can't quite understand the love Sakurai gets either. What has he done to achieve that? Kirby has always been more of a B-tier series, and Smash Bros lives to a large degree from its fanservice. It's a great multiplayer game, but its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof. (And it's not even of consistant quality: the single player modes of the Smash Bros games have always been so-so so far, even though they tried to put more effort into Brawl's adventure mode...)

I have to admit. I hate to do this. But i think theres a good chance other designers could have done a better job with the concept of an all-star Nintendo fighter. I really think the fighting mechanics could be much better. But the game has progressively increased the fan service and at the end, if you are a Nintendo fan you have no choice but to submit.

Sakurai is at least very passionate. But has he ever blown me away with his gameplay innovations? NO.
 
its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof.

Melee was brilliant because newcomers could pick it up and understand it immediately, but for the hardcore it offered truly incredible depth. Melee was absolutely one of the best titles of its generation across any system.
 

apana

Member
I think with game designers it is very important to have people who can look at things from a different perspective. Sakurai is one of those people who has a unique perspective and comes up with very cool concepts. It's easy to say that people could have made Smash Bros better but that is after the fact, after he already came up with it.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
I think with game designers it is very important to have people who can look at things from a different perspective. Sakurai is one of those people who has a unique perspective and comes up with very cool concepts. It's easy to say that people could have made Smash Bros better but that is after the fact, after he already came up with it.

Technically. Wasn't it a Nintendo executive who suggested Sakurai used Nintendo characters in the game?
 
The new Miyamoto was actually supposed to be Yoichi Yamada. Who Dylan Cuthbert also said was one of the most brilliant designers he ever worked with. Moby Games search Yoichi Yamada and you will find one of the most impressive and varied resumes of any designer. He just has not got the press or notoriety.

Have you got a link to the Cuthbert quote? Interested to read that. So many devs at Nintendo still that haven't got enough credit through press or even Iwata Asks. I'd love to hear insights from Yasuhisa Yamamura on level design & Keizo Ohta programming.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Have you got a link to the Cuthbert quote? Interested to read that. So many devs at Nintendo still that haven't got enough credit through press or even Iwata Asks. I'd love to hear insights from Yasuhisa Yamamura on level design & Keizo Ohta programming.

You will have to google the Dylan Cuthbert quote. It is in an internet interview that you should be able to find with no problem.

Yasuhisa Yamamura. I have no idea where he is. Quite frankly either he is doing something non-game related, or retired.

Keizo Ota is doing well. Ota is a programming wiz. He works at EAD Technology Division, head of one of the sub groups there.
 

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
I can't quite understand the love Sakurai gets either. What has he done to achieve that? Kirby has always been more of a B-tier series, and Smash Bros lives to a large degree from its fanservice. It's a great multiplayer game, but its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof. (And it's not even of consistant quality: the single player modes of the Smash Bros games have always been so-so so far, even though they tried to put more effort into Brawl's adventure mode...)

Smash Bros. Brawl's single player mode would have been somewhat respectable if Sakurai didn't turn it into a self-fellating wankfest over the Kirby characters and stage design.
 

Alrus

Member
It's not like Sunshine was a bad game.

You can see echoes of its bonus levels in 3D Land.

Well, Sunshine wasn't fun (the quantity of tedious levels/shines is ridiculous), so I consider it a bad game. It's the worst 3D mario game ever released for sure.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I sorta think Koizumi's somewhat overrated, and he has more 'good' than 'great' games under his belt. However, his greatest accomplishment, SMG alone, gives me the incentive to forgive past mediocrities.

I can't quite understand the love Sakurai gets either. What has he done to achieve that? Kirby has always been more of a B-tier series, and Smash Bros lives to a large degree from its fanservice. It's a great multiplayer game, but its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof. (And it's not even of consistant quality: the single player modes of the Smash Bros games have always been so-so so far, even though they tried to put more effort into Brawl's adventure mode...)

Sakurai is actually somewhat overrated in the sense that he doesn't have a wide variety of work under his resume, but at his best, is really amazing. I'm not too big a fan on his Kirby games aside from Superstar, which is legitimately awesome. But I feel he struck it big when he designed SSB64, which was very novel, innovative, and unbelievably addicting. He took that base and improved THE FUCK out of it with Melee, which is the high point of his career. It's the game that most of his fans will remember him for. I He took a (imo) massive hit with the fanbase with the advent of Brawl however. That game isn't bad, and had it come out in a previous time would no doubt have been received better, but it was a major step back from Melee in many ways.

Also, the fact that Sakurai has only worked on two major series also sort of artificially inflates his score.

The new Miyamoto was actually supposed to be Yoichi Yamada. Who Dylan Cuthbert also said was one of the most brilliant designers he ever worked with. Moby Games search Yoichi Yamada and you will find one of the most impressive and varied resumes of any designer. He just has not got the press or notoriety.

He's worked on Zelda longer than any one else aside from Miyamoto and Tezuka, and yet he's never directed one. Hell, he hasn't directed ANY game. (yet that loser Hideki Konno has! Not cool) :(

They've struck gold on every damn game they made so far. They're like the Pixar of the games industry... without their Cars 2 yet.

Um...

...

...


..also this.
 

SomeDude

Banned
I can't quite understand the love Sakurai gets either. What has he done to achieve that? Kirby has always been more of a B-tier series, and Smash Bros lives to a large degree from its fanservice. It's a great multiplayer game, but its fundament is pretty much idiot-proof. (And it's not even of consistant quality: the single player modes of the Smash Bros games have always been so-so so far, even though they tried to put more effort into Brawl's adventure mode...)

The best Kirby games were made with him not involed. Kirby Epic Yarn and the recent kirby mass attack.


Kid Icarus is probably going to suck.
 
Wrote a wee piece on Koizumi a while back, if anyone fancies a read.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/329361/features/history-lesson-yoshiaki-koizumi/

He's probably my favourite designer. Also, he was responsible for the storybook in Galaxy - for all that 2 was probably more consistently brilliant in terms of level design, I felt it lacked a little of the first game's heart. Saving the world while helping Rosalina rebuild the comet observatory felt more significant than 2's quest, and while context isn't necessarily that important in a Mario game (3D Land completely streamlined the idea of story, and worked just fine without it) I'd like to see another Mario game try something like Galaxy did.

Quite besides that, he was partly responsible for Jungle Beat which might be one of Nintendo's most critically underrated games ever made. The general consensus at the time was 'great but gimmicky' but for me it's one of the finest 2D platformers of all-time.
 

jay

Member
I agree with some of you that Sakurai is overrated but don't forget about Meteos. That game is really good.
 
Brawl was definitely the weakest of the three by far; no Mewtwo and Subspace was atrocious and bland as hell.

The fact Sakurai said he wouldn't ever do a Melee-level game again is not a good sign, but I also think HAL taking a major step back was also a factor, look at Kirby's Return to Dream Land and Air Ride; far closer in feel and charm to melee than Brawl.

Having such a clusterfuck of devs took some of the game's identity away, I mean you had Game Arts, Paon, Monolith Soft, folks from SE, Capcom, etc, and a shit ton of composers. :/

The three at HAL are legends of music, quality over quanity as they say.

They didn't even get Hajime Wakai to make any Pokemon songs, his work in Stadium 2 was also legendary, he only did two variations of ONE SONG (Area 6 from SF) in Brawl! :/

Project Sora being behind SSB4 is a bad sign, we don't even know who is the core of PS yet. And KIU looks like Brawl in terms of that style and feel, which I hate. :/
 

SomeDude

Banned
Wrote a wee piece on Koizumi a while back, if anyone fancies a read.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/329361/features/history-lesson-yoshiaki-koizumi/

He's probably my favourite designer. Also, he was responsible for the storybook in Galaxy - for all that 2 was probably more consistently brilliant in terms of level design, I felt it lacked a little of the first game's heart. Saving the world while helping Rosalina rebuild the comet observatory felt more significant than 2's quest, and while context isn't necessarily that important in a Mario game (3D Land completely streamlined the idea of story, and worked just fine without it) I'd like to see another Mario game try something like Galaxy did.

Quite besides that, he was partly responsible for Jungle Beat which might be one of Nintendo's most critically underrated games ever made. The general consensus at the time was 'great but gimmicky' but for me it's one of the finest 2D platformers of all-time.


He recently asked eiji aonuma if they could switch mario and zelda so he does zelda and aonuma could do mario. It sucks that he turned down the offer. At least it seems like retro may be involved int he next zelda. I think aonuma needs to leave the franchise for awhile.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Brawl was definitely the weakest of the three by far; no Mewtwo and Subspace was atrocious and bland as hell.

What weakens brawl compared to melee? My main problem with brawl has little to do with the game itself, but more of a circumstantial hardware flaw. I just think something was lost with having a potpourri of controllers during a 4-player brawl session. Whether it involved one player fighting for the only wavbird in the house, the other for the nunchuk, and two unfortunate souls ending up with the wiimote. Perhaps if the Wii U allows for multiple tablets, and or full fledged wireless classic controllers / wavbirds 2. The setting might be more applicable for brawl. Just my opinion of course.

Having such a clusterfuck of devs took some of the game's identity away, I mean you had Game Arts, Paon, Monolith Soft, folks from SE, Capcom, etc, and a shit ton of composers. :/

The main development team was Game Arts / Nintendo SPD / Monolith Soft / Nintendo Software Technology Corp / Paon / Epoch. One story planner contracted from Square-Enix. And musicians from Nintendo and others. I think they worked it out pretty well. The same thing is happening this time around but perhaps with other random companies involved. Project Sora has what 40 employees? They have to subcontract a bunch of other companies again to developed a dual platform - dual sku Smash Bros.

He recently asked eiji aonuma if they could switch mario and zelda so he does zelda and aonuma could do mario. It sucks that he turned down the offer. At least it seems like retro may be involved int he next zelda. I think aonuma needs to leave the franchise for awhile.

Eiji Aonuma worked on one Mario game i believe. BS Super Mario USA Challenge for the Satellaview SNES expansion. Not much experience really. But I do not think Aonuma is to blame for all the Zelda criticisms. Aonuma's job is to try and make Zelda approachable to all these Japanese players who are intimidated by 3D games. It has not been easy doing that and pleasing the rabid hardcores.
 

SomeDude

Banned
What weakens brawl compared to melee? My main problem with brawl has little to do with the game itself, but more of a circumstantial hardware flaw. I just think something was lost with having a potpourri of controllers during a 4-player brawl session. Whether it involved one player fighting for the only wavbird in the house, the other for the nunchuk, and two unfortunate souls ending up with the wiimote. Perhaps if the Wii U allows for multiple tablets, and or full fledged wireless classic controllers / wavbirds 2. The setting might be more applicable for brawl. Just my opinion of course.



The main development team was Game Arts / Nintendo SPD / Monolith Soft / Nintendo Software Technology Corp / Paon / Epoch. One story planner contracted from Square-Enix. And musicians from Nintendo and others. I think they worked it out pretty well. The same thing is happening this time around but perhaps with other random companies involved. Project Sora has what 40 employees? They have to subcontract a bunch of other companies again to developed a dual platform - dual sku Smash Bros.



Eiji Aonuma worked on one Mario game i believe. BS Super Mario USA Challenge for the Satellaview SNES expansion. Not much experience really. But I do not think Aonuma is to blame for all the Zelda criticisms. Aonuma's job is to try and make Zelda approachable to all these Japanese players who are intimidated by 3D games. It has not been easy doing that and pleasing the rabid hardcores.


Do you know how many people currently work at retro studios and ead tokyo?
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Do you know how many people currently work at retro studios and ead tokyo?

Someone claimed that Retro Studios was now at 70 employees. Although I am not sure, if there is a reliable source for it. How many people work at EAD Tokyo. Not sure. I mean eventually it should at least be in the multiple hundreds. EAD Kyoto has easily around 500 developers.
 

Shiggy

Member
Someone claimed that Retro Studios was now at 70 employees. Although I am not sure, if there is a reliable source for it. How many people work at EAD Tokyo. Not sure. I mean eventually it should at least be in the multiple hundreds. EAD Kyoto has easily around 500 developers.

The source for Retro appears to be LinkedIn.
 

JohnTinker

Limbaugh Parrot
What is the likelihood for another F-Zero or Starfox from one of the EAD Tokyo teams?

And do you think that both teams will focus on WiiU development, or split with 3DS?
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
What is the likelihood for another F-Zero or Starfox from one of the EAD Tokyo teams?

And do you think that both teams will focus on WiiU development, or split with 3DS?

EAD Kyoto Group No. 5. The makers of Wii Fit and Steel Diver. Yes, unfortunately. Somehow Takaya Imamura (director, creator of F-Zero and Star Fox characters) transferred there under Tadashi Sugiyama (director of F-Zero X). Thus, I believe the series future is somewhere here.

I suspect that the next Star Fox and F-Zero will be developed here but with another developer sub-developing. Co-developed inhouse rather than supervised externally. If that makes sense.
 

ZeroRay

Member
EAD Tokyo is one of the best, most creative studios in the industry. Hope they can make an original game (not from an existing franchise).
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The real joke in these kinds of discussions is that most other studios in the world dream that they could one day make one Nintendo Core Staff's "bad" games.

For you, the day that you first played Mario Galaxy was the most important day of your life. But for EAD, it was Tuesday.

The thing is, it's not that every game is "perfect". There are less good, and even bomb, aspects of many of their games. The difference is that these tend to be sour notes in an otherwise higher tier package, rather than the critical flaws that make a merely good game mediocre. Any development project runs the risk of core flaws in the design bearing rotten fruit when it's too late to turn back. Nintendo's main guys are just really good at insuring the experience is still, on the whole, better than most others could accomplish.

That is why, with hindsight, a lot of people feel the games are in fact classics... after one's sour first impressions pass, and some detail that was bugging you is forgotten, coming back later puts it all into perspective.

An example is Mario Sunshine. Sunshine, like TWW, is flawed by being rushed; it clearly uses blue coin hunts and the like to make busy work to get to 120 stars. That is a flaw compared to the best 3D Mario games.

But, when I went back and played it again later, without expectations of BEST GAME EVER weighing it down, I didn't mind them. Just running around as Mario, even using the damn water pack, was fun and rewarding enough that grabbing the coins was fun.
 

Alrus

Member
An example is Mario Sunshine. Sunshine, like TWW, is flawed by being rushed; it clearly uses blue coin hunts and the like to make busy work to get to 120 stars. That is a flaw compared to the best 3D Mario games.

But, when I went back and played it again later, without expectations of BEST GAME EVER weighing it down, I didn't mind them. Just running around as Mario, even using the damn water pack, was fun and rewarding enough that grabbing the coins was fun.

To be honest the blue coins aren't even Sunshine's biggest flaw. It's just that there is so many Shine that just aren't really fun or interesting to get. (Many red coins shines feel like pure padding with zero challenge). Add in some buggy levels (the "pinball" one for example), some really tedious mechanics (Yoshi) and also that terrible watermelon contest shine. And you end up with a mediocre game with some nice ideas.
 

disco

Member
I loved reading about Koizumi's approach to Mario 3D Land in that Iwata Asks a while back. Such a methodical, rational way of working. Yet of course understands that surprise elements come in too. When he spoke about practically mapping a formula for Mario levels it reminded me of my crap attempt at turning the The Great Deku Tree into an algebraic formula.
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
I loved Koizumi before he went off into producer land, I hope he has the chance to direct something new someday. I'll consider SMG his swan song until that day, if it ever comes.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Thanks for proving my point! No need to be sheepish about it though. ;D

Come on, people. Let's be reasonable here. Even Koizumi stated how much he was disappointed with DK: JB.*

*
Okay, technically he may not have actually "said" anything, but I'm 110% confident he feels that way.
 
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