Support NeoGAF

[SocksForWoks]

You'd think this would be a fanboy article/cover that NeoGAF would produce : p

Anyway I figured the Xbone was selling enough to be in good standing.

 

[Renekton]

Too early to tell? We haven't seen Titanfall numbers sinking in yet.

 

[CadetMahoney]

It will forever be a distant second place in any and all regions when the dust settles.

So no.

 

[Byron Bluth]

I'm more interested in the "Making of Super Mario 3D World"

 

[Y2Kev]

I actually would like to see some resolution to the dichotomy of "poor PR affecting sales" vs. "just things people on the Internet care about."

I think the second group failed and fails to understand the importance of the network effects of early adopters.

 

[Hoo-doo]

No. But its abit difficult to sell out the Xbox One when its only released in 13 countries compared to the over 40 for the PS4. Meaning its in stock doesnt mean its bad.

The countries they haven't yet released in aren't going to do a lot of numbers anyway.

Over here in the Netherlands game retailers have been stocking €499 imported Xbones since day one.

 

[Trent Strong]

It will forever be a distant second place in any and all regions when the dust settles.

So no.

It's only two mill behind. If they get rid of Kinect and drop the price they could get pretty close to PS4.

 

[Miles X]

It will forever be a distant second place in any and all regions when the dust settles.

So no.

Not the US. 360 use to outsell PS3 in Europe but when Sony got their shit together it never looked back, but didn't manage the same feat in the US, you'll see the same situation apply here. There are still 40m 360 owners in the US. As long as MS get price comparative with PS4, they still have that massive userbase to appeal too.

And before you quote PS2 in the US. A) Sony took way to long (360 released 05, $299 slim was 09) and 360 was still ahead in price advantage and game appeal.

If XB1 and PS4 are on equal footings in the US, XB1 will win.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

I mean by selling a decent amount that has nothing to do with how PS4 is selling, it's not always a war you know. Your basic argument is that if XB1 sold 1m in a week in the UK but PS4 sold 5m, XB1 would be doing crap. Get a perspective.



Again with the comparing, look at the overall picture, how are XB1 sales in Europe compared to 360? I mean if you want to compare anything. It's never going to live up to playstation in Europe, doesn't mean it can't do well.

Well, the 360 was incredibly supply constrained for a good 3-4 months after launch. If the Xbox One - following the 360, a much more successful console than the original Xbox - wasn't significantly outpacing its massively supply constrained predecessor, it would be even closer to the grave than Wii U.

 

[Hyb]

Is the Xbox One selling "bad" compared to the PS4? Yes.
Selling "bad" compared to alot of other consoles and their first 6 months? Not at all.
Over 4 million in 6 months is just very good. And shows again console gaming is not dead.
Xbox One needs help yeah compared to the PS4. But i think they are getting on the correct road. Like we see with all the news lately.

 

[Moral Panic]

I actually would like to see some resolution to the dichotomy of "poor PR affecting sales" vs. "just things people on the Internet care about."

I think the second group failed and fails to understand the importance of the network effects of early adopters.

It depends on what it is, who is saying these things and the like. On certain parts of the internet the iPad was a considered terrible idea, the bezel was too big, MS already did it years ago etc. You could consider that as "just things people on the Internet care about."

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

No. But its abit difficult to sell out the Xbox One when its only released in 13 countries compared to the over 40 for the PS4. Meaning its in stock doesnt mean its bad.

It does when it's still selling less, even on a country-by-country basis.

 

[Nicktendo86]

That might be true, but Kinect is tied to the console's high price, and I imagine dropping the price of the console would be very high on the list of requests.



Oh fuck off Molyneux, you goddamn hypocrite. You were one of the biggest proponents (and liars) about Kinect 1.

Beat me to it. I watched the Milo and Kate video again the other day, I forgot how bad the levels of hyperbole were. The new PM quotes about Kinect are perhaps the funniest thing I have read all year.

 

[gaming_noob]

No such thing as negative publicity

 

[Artorias]

I wouldn't call it a failure and I don't think they need to "turn things around", but they do need to change public opinion. My nongamer extended family members know enough to poke fun of it, the way people made fun of Charlie Sheen or Windows 8. It's like the flavor of the month whipping boy at this point.

To my surprise it's often about Kinect or a random NSA comment. In Gamestop I almost always hear a random NSA comment, but I do live in a county that seems very pro libertarian (No, seriously. I didn't know there were more than a handful in each state!)

 

[arhra]

I see no issue... er problem.

Is there a database of covers to show what was printed during the PS3 launch? If they painted that all rosy, then Edge is the one needing help.

Up through September 2012: http://www.edge-online.com/features/every-edge-magazine-cover-ever/

Here's a few relevant ones.

Feb 2006:

After Sony's hilariously awful E3-2006 showing:

[crickets]

Dec 2006 [launch]:

Random cover story one year later in Dec 2007:

(no idea what the story is here, but apparently it warranted a textless cover featuring a bunch of PS3s covered in lightning)

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Still hyperbolic. And you've made a false statement, its currently pacing better then 360 during the same period.

I just said that it was doing worse than the 360 when you look at marketshare. I'm aware that it has sold way more units so farm, though I would argue that's mainly because pre-ordering has become more popular, the brand is stronger than it was when the 360 was released, and consoles can be produced faster.

Your moving goal posts now, you said US initially. Still out of the markets its released in, its doing decent in 360 strongholds, and poor in markets MS always struggled in. That still doesnt mean its a failure. Spain, France, Germany have always preferred Sony brand.

*sigh*
I said it's "not even selling out in the US, while the PS4 is pretty much sold out everywhere". How is that me talking about just the US? I just mentioned it because it's MS' strongest territory. Also, Spain, France and Germany were Nintendo-land before it was Sony-land, a compelling offering would definitely move people. Just look at the UK.

 

[ResidentDante]

PlayStation fanboys seem to be under the impression that there can only be one or should be one dominant contender in a market. If you should sell less than the top you are simply categorised as a failure.

 

[Hyb]

It does when it's still selling less, even on a country-by-country basis.

Yes. But you cant just look at stock and say its "bad" There are other factors in play also why there is stock next to less demand.

 

[Canis lupus]

Not the US. 360 use to outsell PS3 in Europe but when Sony got their shit together it never looked back, but didn't manage the same feat in the US, you'll see the same situation apply here. There are still 40m 360 owners in the US. As long as MS get price comparative with PS4, they still have that massive userbase to appeal too.

And before you quote PS2 in the US. A) Sony took way to long (360 released 05, $299 slim was 09) and 360 was still ahead in price advantage and game appeal.

If XB1 and PS4 are on equal footings in the US, XB1 will win.

No if PS4 and Xbone share a ~50/50 marketshare in the US it'd mean a huge gap in worldwide sales. The PS3 caught up with the 360 in global LTD even being outsold by 360 in the US+UK by ~20m. If that gap vanishes, and the PS4 further increases it's marketshare in Europe and rest of the world, PS4 will probably end up with a 70 percent marketshare over the Xbone overall.

It won't be quite PS2 level of dominance, more like PS1 dominance over the N64 and Saturn.

 

[Jack cw]

Again with the comparing, look at the overall picture, how are XB1 sales in Europe compared to 360? I mean if you want to compare anything. It's never going to live up to playstation in Europe, doesn't mean it can't do well.

Then why those bold statements like "We are going for 40% marketshare in Germany" for example? Why shouldnt we compare it to the competition its fighting? That is what determines if a product succeeds or not. They barely sell more than 360 and with the rest selling better, the share Microsoft has gets smaller. For a new system its pretty underwhelming regardless of the brand. Its not like people are Microsoft phobic on the continent but the content and message they delivered was basically fuck you.

 

[Doffen]

The countries they haven't yet released in aren't going to do a lot of numbers anyway.

Over here in the Netherlands game retailers have been stocking €499 imported Xbones since day one.

The countries by itself? no.
But all the 26 new markets together will push units.

 

[liquidtmd]

We built a box that natively understands the country it’s in

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I mean by selling a decent amount that has nothing to do with how PS4 is selling, it's not always a war you know. Your basic argument is that if XB1 sold 1m in a week in the UK but PS4 sold 5m, XB1 would be doing crap. Get a perspective.

No, my argument is that the X1 is getting stomped in Europe. Can it sell "well", mainly in UK? Sure, it depends on how you define by well.
It doesn't stop it from having no chance whatsoever of ever becoming the average joe machine in these territories. Unless some previous Nintendo users pick up the X1, you can bet there's going to be quite the userbase contraction in Europe for Microsoft. They don't have the price advantage anymore, don't have the brand power, don't have launch date advantage...

Not the US. 360 use to outsell PS3 in Europe but when Sony got their shit together it never looked back, but didn't manage the same feat in the US, you'll see the same situation apply here. There are still 40m 360 owners in the US. As long as MS get price comparative with PS4, they still have that massive userbase to appeal too.

And before you quote PS2 in the US. A) Sony took way to long (360 released 05, $299 slim was 09) and 360 was still ahead in price advantage and game appeal.

If XB1 and PS4 are on equal footings in the US, XB1 will win.

What? If PS4 and X1 are the same in the US, X1 will win worldwide? Am I reading this right?

 

[Blablurn]

Wouldnt underestimate MS at this point. It's way to early in the game and they have a shitton of ressources. its gonna be a interesting generation.

 

[Canis lupus]

The countries by itself? no.
But all the 26 new markets together will push units.

Many Xbox fans in Tier 2 countries already got an imported Xbone anyway, their target audience already has their console.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Yes. But you cant just look at stock and say its "bad" There are other factors in play also why there is stock next to less demand.

I don't even understand what you're saying here What are those factors??

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but the Xbone has been doing pretty badly since January. And yes, that's only when compared to the PS4, but how else should we determine whether it's doing well or not? Comparing to how things looked 8-9 years ago certainly isn't the way forward.

 

[Y2Kev]

No, my argument is that the X1 is getting stomped in Europe. Can it sell "well", mainly in UK? Sure, it depends on how you define by well.
It doesn't stop it from having no chance whatsoever of ever becoming the average joe machine in these territories. Unless some previous Nintendo users pick up the X1, you can bet there's going to be quite the userbase contraction in Europe for Microsoft. They don't have the price advantage anymore, don't have the brand power, don't have launch date advantage...



What? If PS4 and X1 are the same in the US, X1 will win worldwide? Am I reading this right?

He's just talking about in the us. He's saying a hypothetical xbox one that is on "even footing" (define that as you want) with ps4 would beat ps4 in the us.

 

[Shahed]

What? If PS4 and X1 are the same in the US, X1 will win worldwide? Am I reading this right?

Dynopia is obviously referring to US sales. And I think that he's right in that regard if XB1 gets on event footing with PS4. Problem is I don't see that happening. Unless MS decide to take a big loss, PS4 will probably always have the price/power advantage. Friend lists and ecosystems will vary between people and preference, but the other two are pretty much permanent

 

[Hyb]

I don't even understand what you're saying here What are those factors??

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but the Xbone has been doing pretty badly since January. And yes, that's only when compared to the PS4, but how else should we determine whether it's doing well or not? Comparing to how things looked 8-9 years ago certainly isn't the way forward.

Those factors are that the console is only released in 13 countries so there is more stock in those countries compared to the PS4. Yes there is more demand for the PS4. But that doesnt mean that is the only reason there is enough stock of Xbox One in stores because nobody buys it.

 

[Miles X]

No if PS4 and Xbone share a ~50/50 marketshare in the US it'd mean a huge gap in worldwide sales. The PS3 caught up with the 360 in global LTD even being outsold by 360 in the US+UK by ~20m. If that gap vanishes, and the PS4 further increases it's marketshare in Europe and rest of the world, PS4 will probably end up with a 70 percent marketshare over the Xbone overall.

It won't be quite PS2 level of dominance, more like PS1 dominance over the N64 and Saturn.

I'm not talking about WW, I know PS4 will lead by 20m+ there.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I love the Beatles!

Now it's in my head!

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The answer to the question completely depends on what their definition of turning it around means. If they can only turn things around by leading the generation then there's a good chance they won't ever turn it around. They only got the position they had last gen thanks to Sony blowing their dominance with that $600 price tag. If turning it around means simply correcting their mistakes then they've pretty much righted the ship with the price being the only thing left to address.

 

[not_so_special]

so much salt here

 

[Taker666]

Dead would be WiiU not XB1, it's doing okay right now. Considering it's going up against PS4 which has a good strong userbase in Europe, cheaper price and no negative press ..

That's a tough call to make across Europe as a whole. XB1 is doing ok in the UK but that seems to be about it.

A quick look at Amazon France and Amazon Germany (which I believe were the top two markets in Europe up until recently at least) has the top Wii U hardware SKU ahead of the top Xbox One hardware SKU (although neither are doing great and could likely swap pretty easily).

When Mario Kart 8 launches I'd say Wii U will be outselling the Xbox One across most of Europe by a fair chunk..although PS4 will still dominate obviously.

 

[Courage]

MS has already been doing well enough to change things. Start of some digital sales, price cut, Plex integration, Spencer taking the helm. I'd say I'm impressed.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

of course MS can turn things around. they've been steadily doing just that since their reveal. it's way too early in the game to conclude an outcome one way or the other.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Those factors are that the console is only released in 13 countries so there is more stock in those countries compared to the PS4. Yes there is more demand for the PS4. But that doesnt mean that is the only reason there is enough stock of Xbox One in stores because nobody buys it.

Again, I'm not just basing this on the stock situation. IIRC, there is not a single country in which the Xbone is outselling the PS4, despite being in stock. Of course there being stock of console A and none of console B in a situation where console A is handily outsold by console B is a bad thing for the makers of console A, don't you agree?? Also, logically, if there's stock left over, that means "nobody buys it", or at least not enough buy it, agreed?

Oh, and of course MS can turn this around. I do think it's going to take more money hatting and advertising than they're willing to shell out for though.

 

[Llamadeus]

I'm just a dumb 'Murican, but I thought that Europe consisted of more countries than just the six that the Xbox One is officially available in right now.

UK, Ireland, Spain, Italy, France, Germany.

Besides, I've always read on the interwebs that the Xbox brand has never been as strong in EU as Playstation. Is this not a factor?

"We deliberately didn't target high end graphics".

Yeah. How is that working out for you MS?

This isn't the reason why most people were upset with Microsoft over the Xbox One. It just happens to be the only one that the Playstation camp is currently championing because the hardware difference will never change.

Used game DRM, 24 hour online check ins, $499, mandatory kinect, lack of initial focus on games and Mattrick's stubborn refusal to change these policies were the real issue, and all of those are gone or changing.

 

[fasTRapid]

Edge is an EU magazine. It's getting annihilated in the EU right now, including the UK which WAS a strong market for the 360.

Yes.

Really dig their covers.

The countries by itself? no.
But all the 26 new markets together will push units.

Sure, bro.

 

[Prine]

I just said that it was doing worse than the 360 when you look at marketshare. I'm aware that it has sold way more units so farm, though I would argue that's mainly because pre-ordering has become more popular, the brand is stronger than it was when the 360 was released, and consoles can be produced faster.

What? Its sold more but is doing worse? If you mean worse monthly then current 360, then i dont believe thats the case in UK, maybe true in Germany/France, but that again doesn't mean failure. They still have lots of room to manoeuvre and improve.

*sigh*
I said it's "not even selling out in the US, while the PS4 is pretty much sold out everywhere". How is that me talking about just the US? I just mentioned it because it's MS' strongest territory. Also, Spain, France and Germany were Nintendo-land before it was Sony-land, a compelling offering would definitely move people. Just look at the UK.

My only issue was you claiming it has failed, compared to PS4 outside of US its not doing so well of course, though id argue it way to early to make such sweeping statements, they have full backing of 3rd parties, considerable amount of resources and promising exclusives. There's still a plan, which failed initiatives fall short of. Nintendo loyalty is irrelevant in those countries as it doesn't change the fact MS consoles do the worst there and have always been that way.

 

[suedester]

MS has already been doing well enough to change things. Start of some digital sales, price cut, Plex integration, Spencer taking the helm. I'd say I'm impressed.

People aren't going to buy the Xbox one because of a Plex client and a new head of Xbox. Price drop, yes.

 

[Hyb]

Again, I'm not just basing this on the stock situation. IIRC, there is not a single country in which the Xbone is outselling the PS4, despite being in stock. Of course there being stock of console A and none of console B in a situation where console A is handily outsold by console B is a bad thing for the makers of console A, don't you agree?? Also, logically, if there's stock left over, that means "nobody buys it", or at least not enough buy it, agreed?

I agree abit. But i have feeling i cant get my message over correctly because of the language barrier haha. English is not my native language.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Again with the comparing, look at the overall picture, how are XB1 sales in Europe compared to 360?

You know, the 360 didn't exactly set mainland Europe on fire and the circumstances at when it launched compared to the Xbone are very different. The Xbox brand was still establishing itself by then.

Not the US. 360 use to outsell PS3 in Europe but when Sony launched the PS3 one year later it never looked back,

fixed ?

 

[peace]

Surprised Edge seem to be making out the Xbone is struggling.

 

[DryvBy]

He is also keen to stress that Microsoft is doing the best is can to ensure that Xbox One’s performance continues to improve in order to match the power of its rival PS4. “The resolution and fidelity of things that people will be playing on Xbox One will be top notch,” he tells us. “You ship with a certain idea about what the profile of a game running on your box will look like, but you learn in terms of what people are really doing, and how you can make it most effective for developers.”

If games are held back graphically, then yes, you can match the resolution and speeds. Otherwise, this won't happen.

 

[Miles X]

You know, the 360 didn't exactly set mainland Europe on fire and the circumstances at when it launched compared to the Xbone are very different. The Xbox brand was still establishing itself by then.

Really? I never knew :O

Xbox 360 did 25m+ in Europe, if that isn't doing well then your expectations are out of control.

 

[Messofanego]

EDGE have been a joke for years though.

How come? They still have great features, articles, post-mortems, and is the main avenue for Clint Hocking content!

 

[Doffen]

Many Xbox fans in Tier 2 countries already got an imported Xbone anyway, their target audience already has their console.

Yes, but not all Xbox owners are Xbox fans.
The most likely senario is that "innovators" and "Early adopters" already got Xbox One. But you've still have to capture "Early majority", "Late majority" and "Laggards".

A nice graph:

Sure, bro.

You can slap my ass and call me Sally if Xbox One sells negative in September.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

At this point, I don't think the Xbox is doing so bad. Maybe in the UK it's doing pretty terrible but so far in sales numbers, it's not in a situation where it's going to fall off the face of the planet. It isn't abysmal. Knowing MS they will spend the money to get it where it needs to be. There is quite a hyperbole in the cover but if going by the local audience it appeals to, then it isn't that far from the truth.