Support NeoGAF

[RespectThySole]

Agreed, instead the pick is janky ass stuff --played New Vegas with top tier mods--like NV that has such an incoherent and terrible world design it's hilarious at times.

No modern Fallout can touch Horizon with a stick IMHO. Just my opinion though.

If Fallout was made by a company with a decent graphics engine I might actually let one on my list.

The reason Horizon is on this list is because its world design is almost second to none. There are only 4 or 5 games that can compete with the world they built for Horizon graphically and technically.[/B] That alone is an amazing achievement. It also happens to have a great female lead and a very competent story to tell with fantastic combat.

Also, I'll take Horizon over Bloodborne any day of the friggin' week. God BB is so massively overrated and I'll be so glad when this FS boner goes away.

Dark Souls was an amazing achievement. It's the only game that belongs on this list IMO. Demon's Souls remaster is gonna be on there when it happens.

Horizon isn't in the same league as Bloodborne or Demon's Souls for that matter.

New Vegas is miles ahead of Horizon when it comes to roleplaying, quest design, itemization, writing, soundtrack, and characters. Its world is more interesting than Horizon's as well. I'm shocked that you think Horizon's world is anything special apart from the graphics.

Horizon has it beat when it comes to graphics, enemy design and combat, but even then it's combat is hardly excellent. The bow combat against machines is pretty good, but the human and melee combat is horrible.

 

[DeathbyCheerios]

It does, but it's absolutely unmatched in what it gets right. And it's not even close.

Re your edit:

I can't get behind ME2. The Mass Effect dichotomization of choice is just a way to artificially make the player feel like their game is unique to them and centered around their choices, without having to actually spend the resources to do so. Roughly 90% of conversation trees only have two lines of dialog unique to your "choice": Shepard's Paragon, Renegade or Neutral selection and then the immediate response (from whomever you're speaking to) to that selection. After that, the conversation just goes back into the same dialog tree that's shared by all three. That's why there's not a "Good" or "Evil" option like there was even for KoToR because that would necessitate that a lot more unique content would have to be made.

I mean thats fair but it's writing and story are top freaking notch. I'd say the issue you have with it is how I felt about the issues New Vegas has with its kind of bland world and buggy nature.

I absolutely love New Vegas but I feel the same way about Mass Effect 2. What it does right shadows anything it does wrong.

 

[nachum00]

Terrible list

 

[Javier23]

No Final Fantasy 6 or 7.. and no Metal Gear Solid 1.. but Super Hexagon makes it in at #100.

Wow.

Super Hexagon is the tits.

 

[zoleristec]

Knew the list was gonna be trash when I saw 99 and 100.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Bloodborne does not deserve to be ranked higher than Witcher 3 in any real world.

It has good combat. And that is the only thing it will ever do better than Witcher 3.

What? It also has the better atmosphere, and some of the best leveldesign ever done in gaming history. Just lol.

 

[Arion]

And Bloodborne has a confusing story, rough writing and limited exploration.

Both games have their issues.

Debatable.

The story is obfuscated on purpose to allow the player to come up with their own interpretation. Plenty of books and movies have similar "confusing" storytelling but that's not an objectively bad flaw. The writing achieves exactly what it needs to achieve, nothing rough about it.

Totally disagree with limited exploration. A game doesn't need to be completely open world to have good exploration. Exploring every nook and cranny of Bloodborne leads to significant discoveries in terms of items, story details and at times entirely new optional zones. I found exploration in BB way more engaging than most games out there.

Zelda's issues are just as significant. In that they are a recognised issue that don't in any way spoil the overall game, so they are rightly ignored.

Haven't played Zelda so I can't comment on it but with W3 it did spoil the overall experience to a certain extent. Every time I had to engage with combat in W3 I just felt bummed out. I would try to choose dialogue option to avoid combat as much as possible.

Not played BB and I'm in no way an ARPG aficionado but I had no issues with the Witcher 3 controls.

Good for you, but many people and I had issues with Witcher 3's controls.

 

[SofNasciment-]

Mass Effect 2 is too low.

No Knights of the Old Republic, no Baldur's Gate 2.

I do not endorse this list.

 

[Burglekutt]

I get the subjectivity of lists like these but there were a few standout things

according to the list:

Arkham Knight is the best game in that series

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain is the best Metal Gear game

Final Fantasy XII is the best Final Fantasy

Spoiler

Spoiler

I still love FFXII

at spot 97. 6,7 and 9 didnt even place.

no Chrono Trigger or Punch Out.

 

[Neith]

Horizon isn't in the same league as Bloodborne or Demon's Souls for that matter.

New Vegas is miles ahead of Horizon when it comes to roleplaying, quest design, itemization, writing, soundtrack, and characters. Its world is more interesting than Horizon's as well. I'm shocked that you think Horizon's world is anything special apart from the graphics.

Horizon has it beat when it comes to graphics, enemy design and combat, but even then it's combat is hardly excellent. The bow combat against machines is pretty good, but the human and melee combat is horrible.

Bow combat is the majority of most parts, and you can do bow combat against humans as well. I played both Fallout 3 and New Vegas with the top mods. I had fun. But I quit New Vegas 3/4 the way through because the jank was so much that I just said fuck it.

Roleplay? I don't care when your characters are as stupid as they are in that game. Yes, it has a lot of options, but most of them are useless in the end just like Witcher 3. Skills systems that go so far beyond their own logical ideas that at some point no one cares anymore. The combat in both 3 and 3.5 is mediocre as hell if you ask me.

I did like some of the weapons, perks, and other things no doubt. Fallout has a lot going for it. I even like some of the quests and intent of the storylines. But it just so happens to be made on one of the worst engines out there.

Writing, soundtrack, and characters? LOL. I can't remember one fucking character from any Fallout game. Sound track in Horizon is amazing I have no idea what you are on about there.

Audio is a HUGE step up from any Fallout game, and that is pretty much an objective standard when it comes to overall sound presentation.

It's the same main writer, and thank god he was held in check for Horizon, because I lost any and all interest in New Vegas before I finished it.

 

[DeathbyCheerios]

I get the subjectivity of lists like these but there were a few standout things

according to the list:

Arkham Knight is the best game in that series

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain is the best Metal Gear game

Final Fantasy XII is the best Final Fantasy

Spoiler

Spoiler

I still love FFXII

at spot 97. 6,7 and 9 didnt even place.

no Chrono Trigger or Punch Out.

It looks like the list of a recent high school grad who has only been gaming for a few years and managed to see a couple older games by chance.

 

[Neith]

Debatable.

The story is obfuscated on purpose to allow the player to come up with their own interpretation. Plenty of books and movies have similar "confusing" storytelling but that's not an objectively bad flaw. The writing achieves exactly what it needs to achieve, nothing rough about it.

Totally disagree with limited exploration. A game doesn't need to be completely open world to have good exploration. Exploring every nook and cranny of Bloodborne leads to significant discoveries in terms of items, story details and at times entirely new optional zones. I found exploration in BB way more engaging than most games out there.




Haven't played Zelda so I can't comment on it but with W3 it did spoil the overall experience to a certain extent. Every time I had to engage with combat in W3 I just felt bummed out. I would try to choose dialogue option to avoid combat as much as possible.



Good for you, but many people and I had issues with Witcher 3's controls.

Absolutely not lol. Your defense of Bloodborne is akin to a defense of a terribly written novel or film. It's just not there because you are supposed to imagine it guyz! This is not a David Lynch game. It has nowhere near a level of competence that even an absurdist or surreal writer like Burroughs would entail. Nor does it have that competence versus a film of this nature. It tries to be relevant in some ways, but in other ways it's just completely lazy. It has some good ideas, and some of the writing is okay, but in the end it's just a totally mediocre story IMO.

"Nothing rough about it." OKAY guy.

Can we just celebrate BB for its combat and setting and call it a day? I'm really sick and tired of this BS defense of shitty writing and storytelling. There is an objective base standard in writing, and there is no way in hell that Bloodborne meets the base criteria for good writing even when most of the story is suggestive of its mainline themes and plotlines. It's basically all over the place, completely incoherent, and at no point justifies its cryptic ways.

 

[DeathbyCheerios]

Absolutely not lol. Your defense of Bloodborne is akin to a defense of a terribly written novel or film. It's just not there because you are supposed to imagine it guyz!

Can we just celebrate BB for its combat and setting and call it a day? I'm really sick and tired of this BS defense of shitty writing and storytelling. There is an objective base standard in writing, and there is no way in hell that Bloodborne meets the base criteria for good writing even when most of the story is suggestive of its mainline themes and plotlines. It's basically all over the place, completely incoherent, and at no point justifies its cryptic ways.

Its the same argument I heard from people defending Batman vs Superman and them saying it was actually well written you just had to pay close attention and fill in the blanks.

 

[Crayon]

Botw was really good but the flaws are too many and too great. If they continue to develop it and create the lttp to botw's tloz, then we may have a true goat.

 

[Neith]

Its the same argument I heard from people defending Batman vs Superman and them saying it was actually well written you just had to pay close attention and fill in the blanks.

Honestly, none of the Souls games are well-written or acted by any standard we have even in videogames. The bar has been set way higher by other games.

I love the Souls games for the most part. But as an English major and a film/lit buff you aren't ever going to convince me these games have quality storylines.

They do possess interesting lore and detail, but that doesn't make a quality story come to fruition by itself.

 

[DeathbyCheerios]

Honestly, none of the Souls games are well-written or acted by any standard we have even in videogames. The bar has been set way higher by other games.

I love the Souls games for the most part. But as an English major and a film and lit buff you aren't ever going to convince me these games have quality storylines.

It leads back to something I always say about these kinds of things.

I absolutely loved Starship Troopers. But I will never tell you it was a well written movie.

 

[delta_reg]

CT is fairly dated IMO, but it can still have a place in the later half. FWIW I will take Chrono Trigger in xBRZ emulation over Ocarina of Time N64 with a texture pack any day of the week.

What CT really needs is a new translation.

Well, my first experience with CT was the DS, which actually does have an updated and much better translation. Imo the game holds up well.

When it comes a top 100 list I would surely have Starsiege: Tribes and Shenmue on it, which are kinda rare to find on such lists, so whatever. At the end of the day it's just opinions.

 

[Neith]

Well, my first experience with CT was the DS, which actually does have an updated and much better translation. Imo the game holds up well.

When it comes a top 100 list I would surely have Starsiege: Tribes and Shenmue on it, which are kinda rare to find on such lists, so whatever. At the end of the day it's just opinions.

Yeah the 3DS got a decent amount of games with better translations. I really wish the games were updated again and more widely released for a home console.

I have not experienced either Ocarina 3DS or CT 3DS, but I hear they are decent. Not quite sure Ocarina would still hold up on the big screen though. I would prefer a full remake.

 

[Pieman0920]

What are most people's consensus on Super Monkey Ball vs. Super Monkey Ball 2? I always though that SMB2 was considered the better game...plus there's that collection of the two, Super Monkey Ball Deluxe, though I don't know if collections like that really count even if there is some new content.

 

[RespectThySole]

Bow combat is the majority of most parts, and you can do bow combat against humans as well. I played both Fallout 2 and New Vegas with the top mods. I had fun. But I quit New Vegas 3/4 the way through because the jank was so much that I just said fuck it.

Roleplay? I don't care when your characters are as stupid as they are in that game. Yes, it has a lot of options, but most of them are useless in the end just like Witcher 3. Skills systems that go so far beyond their own logical ideas that at some point no one cares anymore. The combat in both games is mediocre as hell if you ask me.

I did like some of the weapons, perks, and other things no doubt. Fallout has a lot going for it. But it just so happens to made on one of the worst engines out there.

Writing, soundtrack, and characters? LOL. I can't remember one fucking character from any Fallout game. Sound track in Horizon is amazing I have no idea what you are on about there.

Audio is a HUGE step up from any Fallout game, and that is pretty much an objective standard when it comes to overall sound presentation.

It's the same main writer, and thank god he was held in check for Horizon, because I lost any and all interest in New Vegas before I finished it.

Bow combat against humans in Horizon is incredibly dull and unengaging though because of the weak AI. It's fun against machines because they're more dynamic. Clearing bandit camps bored me to no end and there's a lot of that type of stuff even in the main quest. Horizon is abysmal when it comes to characters. Aloy is great, but the side characters are a mess. The only memorable ones are Sylens, Rost and the black female with the abs(don't recall her name atm). That's a pitifully low number for an RPG. They may share a writer, but New Vegas also had other great writers such as Chris Avellone which take it up a couple notches.

Horizon had a couple of good tracks, but it was nothing standout. I'll take the New Vegas soundtrack everyday of the week over it. The audio of Horizon was inconsistent as well. It was great when it came to sounds of some of the machines like the Snapmaw, but sometimes NPCs were near inaudible.

 

[kswiston]

People complain about GAF lists having recency bias, but only 4 of the top 20 games of all time were released before the PS2?

 

[Stallion Dan]

There is a lot of awful in that list.

And I mean awful, not stuff I don't like.

 

[Neith]

Bow combat against humans in Horizon is incredibly dull and unengaging though because of the weak AI. It's fun against machines because they're more dynamic. Horizon is abysmal when it comes to characters. Aloy is great, but the side characters are a mess. The only memorable ones are Sylens, Rost and the black female with the abs(don't recall her name atm). That's a pitifully low number for an RPG. They may share a writer, but New Vegas also had other great writers such as Chris Avellone which take it up a couple notches.

Horizon had a couple of good tracks, but it was nothing standout. I'll take the New Vegas soundtrack everyday of the week over it. The audio of Horizon was inconsistent as well. It was great when it came to sounds of some of the machines like the Snapmaw, but sometimes NPCs were near inaudible.

And I could pick apart the shitty sound of New Vegas all day and every day. The same fucking song playing over and over lol. I'll give the mods a nudge here as they had an entire soundtrack full of oldies in public domain that made the game amazing, but that isn't the vanilla game. The sound In Fallout is amateur hour compared to Horizon. And this includes effects, positioning, balance, et cetera. Have you actually played Horizon?

As for characters well whatever. They both have flaws. All that I know is the mutant shit got out of hand in New Vegas and at some point all that janky shit was like some C-tier horror film. I just gave up on it.

Its world design is laughably archaic in comparison as well. Like I said I liked some of the weapons a lot, and other things as well, but we are talking mods. The vanilla game is hot garbage AFAIC.

No idea what you are talking about with NPCs. Playing on HD600s with a Denon amp and the sound design is LEAGUES ahead of anything Fallout has ever attempted.

Horizon has its flaws, but it's a vastly superior experience to me. And it's not even close.

 

[Beefbud]

I'm incredibly happy and also surprised to see Trials Fusion on the list. It's a top 10 game for me that I have put nearly 100 hours into.

Also very happy to see Super Hexagon, Monster Hunter 4, Spelunky, Katarmari, Super Meat Boy, Super Monkey Ball (so many supers...), FTL, The Witness, and Towerfall on the list.

 

[AerialAir]

Ctrl+F Nier...

Witcher 3 at 55 and Far Cry 4 at 54..haha alright.

Happy to see Horizon there though, probably a bit high though.

Destiny at 36 is pretty crazy also.

No Persona 5...

pretty much this. I'll stick with DigitallyDownloaded's canonical games list, thanks.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Guess they weren't a fan of 90's PC simulation games that pretty much defined that era (System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, etc.) I'm not usually a 'this list is shit' kind of guy but this list is shit.

 

[Neith]

I'm incredibly happy and also surprised to see Trials Fusion on the list. It's a top 10 game for me that I have put nearly 100 hours into.

Also very happy to see Super Hexagon, Monster Hunter 4, Spelunky, Katarmari, Super Meat Boy, Super Monkey Ball (so many supers...), FTL, The Witness, and Towerfall on the list.

ME AS WELL! Fusion got a LOT of crap when it released. But holy cow man with all the DLC and public tracks that game is just fucking AMAZING. Steam reviews do not reflect reality here. Trials Fusion is an a truly astounding accomplishment. But Gold is great too. I'm just glad one of them is on here.

Guess they weren't a fan of 90's PC simulation games that pretty much defined that era (System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, etc.) I'm not usually a 'this list is shit' kind of guy but this list is shit.

I think it is because all of these games are incredibly dated, and they just don't really hold up that well anymore. I could say the same for Ocarina of Time as it would no longer make my top 20 list.

I'm not saying they are bad game at all, but time has not been kind to early 3D games for the most part.

 

[Arion]

Absolutely not lol. Your defense of Bloodborne is akin to a defense of a terribly written novel or film. It's just not there because you are supposed to imagine it guyz! This is not a David Lynch game. It has nowhere near a level of competence that even an absurdist or surreal writer like Burroughs would entail. Nor does it have that competence versus a film of this nature. It tries to be relevant in some ways, but in other ways it's just completely lazy. It has some good ideas, and some of the writing is okay, but in the end it's just a totally mediocre story IMO.

"Nothing rough about it." OKAY guy.

Can we just celebrate BB for its combat and setting and call it a day? I'm really sick and tired of this BS defense of shitty writing and storytelling. There is an objective base standard in writing, and there is no way in hell that Bloodborne meets the base criteria for good writing even when most of the story is suggestive of its mainline themes and plotlines. It's basically all over the place, completely incoherent, and at no point justifies its cryptic ways.

Too bad you didn't enjoy it. I thought it was brilliant. The blank spaces in BB's story led to hours of discussions with friends and forum strangers. All that is yet another reason why those games are so revered and deserving of top spots on lists like these.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

God BB is so massively overrated and I'll be so glad when this FS boner goes away.

lol any day now, right?

Spoiler

wrong

 

[CharminUltra]

BotW be like:

 

[delta_reg]

One thing I just wanna say, when making a list I don't think it's entirely fair to judge games based upon how well they aged or hold up to today's standards and design philosophies, because doing so really handicaps certain games, like those that were pushing 3D when the technology wasn't quite there yet for example, and also it isn't the game designer's fault if certain styles and genres become more popular than others over time. It's best to try and judge the accomplishments and quality of each game based upon its own time period in which it came out, imo.

By Edge wanting to make a list of top games based upon the standards of now they have created weird situations like CT not being there at all and OOT being in the top ten, which while I love both titles I'd argue OOT is worse according to the standards of today if anything primarily due to 3D graphics performance on N64.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

People complain about GAF lists having recency bias, but only 4 of the top 20 games of all time were released before the PS2?

Yeah I noticed it too. Damn Gen Z game journalists.

 

[Neith]

lol any day now, right?

Spoiler

wrong

Well if they improve their storytelling for the next game of course the boner will only get larger, and I will help it. But for right now EHHH they are pretty much coasting like any other solid and revered developer.

 

[Servbot24]

Absolutely not lol. Your defense of Bloodborne is akin to a defense of a terribly written novel or film. It's just not there because you are supposed to imagine it guyz! This is not a David Lynch game. It has nowhere near a level of competence that even an absurdist or surreal writer like Burroughs would entail. Nor does it have that competence versus a film of this nature. It tries to be relevant in some ways, but in other ways it's just completely lazy. It has some good ideas, and some of the writing is okay, but in the end it's just a totally mediocre story IMO.

"Nothing rough about it." OKAY guy.

Can we just celebrate BB for its combat and setting and call it a day? I'm really sick and tired of this BS defense of shitty writing and storytelling. There is an objective base standard in writing, and there is no way in hell that Bloodborne meets the base criteria for good writing even when most of the story is suggestive of its mainline themes and plotlines. It's basically all over the place, completely incoherent, and at no point justifies its cryptic ways.

Sorry dude but I really enjoying the obscurity of BB, despite any insistence that I'm actually just imagining enjoying it. I would be pretty disappointed if BB2 had a more traditional plot, or any plot really.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Well if they improve their storytelling for the next game of course the boner will only get larger, and I will help it. But for right now EHHH they are pretty much coasting like any other solid and revered developer.

From are masters of world building and lore. Their games don't tell great stories and they don't need to. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are far more interesting to me and many others than most video games.

 

[phanphare]

lol any day now, right?

Spoiler

wrong

I've learned from this thread that the honeymoon phase can last for years!

 

[Arion]

One thing I just wanna say, when making a list I don't think it's entirely fair to judge games based upon how well they aged or hold up to today's standards and design philosophies, because doing so really handicaps certain games, like those that were pushing 3D when the technology wasn't quite there yet for example, and also it isn't the game designer's fault if certain styles and genres become more popular than others over time. It's best to try and judge the accomplishments and quality of each game based upon its own time period in which it came out, imo.

By Edge wanting to make a list of top games based upon the standards of now they have created weird situations like CT not being there at all and OOT being in the top ten, which while I love both titles I'd argue OOT is worse according to the standards of today if anything primarily due to 3D graphics performance on N64.

I get that but we already have so many lists that mention all those classic games for that reason. We are just gonna end up with the same list over and over if we follow the exact same criteria every time.

I really appreciate this list and the recent pcgamer list because they acknowledge so many modern games and old games that have aged decently. It just means I'm more likely to check them out for myself.

 

[Neith]

Sorry dude but I really enjoying the obscurity of BB, despite any insistence that I'm actually just imagining enjoying it. I would be pretty disappointed if BB2 had a more traditional plot, or any plot really.

Has nothing to do with defending its writing, which has no place whatsoever in any world where good writing exists. Souls games are not good writing, and if this is what people think good writing is well IDK what to tell you. You are wrong.

I don't think anyone is asking for a traditional plot. But they can do better than random NPCs placed in random places that tell you random shit. There is no coherence to any of the storytelling. OMG an item links this character and that character told me something that links this other character!

Let's IMAGINE what could happen here! Because the game cannot bother with even the most minimal levels of deep characterization, let's just imagine what it would be like for everything to have even the slightest sense of realism!

The Souls demographic thinks these games are perfect. I and many others disagree with this notion. It is what it is. No way in hell 3 Souls games make my top 100. Dark Souls will get a top 20 mention, and a possible Demon's Souls remaster might sneak in the top 30 as well. But nothing else so far. Just started Scholar, and I am liking its characters better than Bloodborne so far.

I mean at least they have SOME sense of being actual characters in a fantasy. Bloodborne is just absurdist with minimal characterization taken to the extreme.

I disagree that From are masters of world building. Their world PALES in comparison to what The Witcher 3 does with its world. It's not even close. From just gets excused by fanboys. Item descriptions isn't a replacement for characterization and proper world building. I never have given on crap about anything that actually happens in any Souls game to date.

That does not mean I want face to face talking in From games every 5 minutes. Far from it.

I'd say though that Demon's Souls and Dark Souls came the closest to bringing me into their worlds. I thought the lore and some of the NPCs were pretty good, and they fit into their world well.

Let's not get me wrong here. Dark Souls is in my top 20 games of all time, and a DeS remaster might sneak up there too. So don't go on this tirade like I hate these games or something. Don't misconstrue my constructive criticism for some fanboy BS.

 

[doctorcdcs]

That's number one??!


Agree to disagree. Haha.

 

[giapel]

Not a bad list but the omission of Baldur's Gate 2 is bullshit. Not even the argument of "not aged well" can excuse this.

 

[Poimandres]

From are masters of world building and lore. Their games don't tell great stories and they don't need to. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are far more interesting to me and many others than most video games.

I absolutely agree. The settings are very interesting, great world design, and the lore is there if you want it. But these games don't beat you over the head with an "important" or "dramatic" story. They are action role playing games, with an emphasis on the action. I'm glad there are no forced walking sections and long unskippable cutscenes. I like the minimalist approach to storytelling. The twisted worlds are enough to keep me engaged through the whole game, which is more than I can say for a lot of heavily story driven games.

 

[kswiston]

Not a bad list but the omission of Baldur's Gate 2 is bullshit. Not even the argument of "not aged well" can excuse this.

The only things that haven't aged well are the graphic resolution on the original PC version, and the pathfinding for your party members as you make your way through towns or dungeons.

I don't know if the Extended Edition is competent, but remaster would theoretically take care of those issues. Even the voice acting was ok, given the era.

 

[Neith]

I absolutely agree. The settings are very interesting, great world design, and the lore is there if you want it. But these games don't beat you over the head with an "important" or "dramatic" story. They are action role playing games, with an emphasis on the action. I'm glad there are no forced walking sections and long unskippable cutscenes. I like the minimalist approach to storytelling. The twisted worlds are enough to keep me engaged through the whole game, which is more than I can say for a lot of heavily story driven games.

Their NPCs are redundant for the most part, and I rarely if ever care about any of these characters. I always hear this beat you over the head comment when anyone criticizes these games. In this very thread it's happening again.

NO ONE is asking FS to become a Witcher 3 cloner. What people want is better and more connected storytelling. Actually animate your NPCs a bit, involve your main character more, and produce a vision that isn't just randomly connected events and randomly intertwined NPCs.

It's not enough for me anymore. And going by sales if From just produced Dark Souls 4 like they did with 3 people are going to get tired of it.

They need to up the ante with their games. We have gotten steady improvements with graphics and such, but the cinematics, NPCs, and other story elements are still stuck in the last gen.

I for one hope they plan on blowing our minds with their next game. I don't want just Bloodborne 2, or Dark Souls 4. From is in danger of becoming a studio pumping out sequels like any random game or Hollywood giant.

 

[NeoZeedeater]

One thing I just wanna say, when making a list I don't think it's entirely fair to judge games based upon how well they aged or hold up to today's standards and design philosophies, because doing so really handicaps certain games, like those that were pushing 3D when the technology wasn't quite there yet for example, and also it isn't the game designer's fault if certain styles and genres become more popular than others over time. It's best to try and judge the accomplishments and quality of each game based upon its own time period in which it came out, imo.

I think it's fair to make a list based on what plays best today. The problem with this list is that it doesn't acknowledge all the classics that do hold up extremely well. They have a small number of games older than the 2000s, and even for those it's like they forgot companies other than Nintendo existed. They seem to have no perspective on gaming history at all.

 

[Mael]

Can't really disagree with BotW, Dark Souls, Bloodborne being that high up the list.
Metroid Prime being the only one listed and being so low is a travesty, it being lower than Super Metroid is even worse if you ask me.
the rest is opinion I guess.
Mario Maker is legit the best 2D Mario I ever played, so well thought out!
SotC being lower than the bore that is Ico is a travesty as well...

i won't even comment on stuffs like Super Mario 3D World making the list but not Mario Galaxy or Castlevania being represented by SotN and not superior iterations like OoE or AoS or DoS.
It's a good mainstream list I guess?

 

[Bronx-Man]

Where the fuck is Hotline Miami

 

[Poimandres]

Their NPCs are redundant for the most part, and I rarely if ever care about any of these characters. I always hear this beat you over the head comment when anyone criticizes these games. In this very thread it's happening again.

NO ONE is asking FS to become a Witcher 3 cloner. What people want is better and more connected storytelling. Actually animate your NPCs a bit, involve your main character more, and produce a vision that isn't just randomly connected events and randomly intertwined NPCs.

It's not enough for me anymore. And going by sales if From just produced Dark Souls 4 like they did with 3 people are going to get tired of it.

They need to up the ante with their games. We have gotten steady improvements with graphics and such, but the cinematics, NPCs, and other story elements are still stuck in the last gen.

I actually agree that they could definitely step things up in these respects. NPCs are totally static basically, the formula unchanged for 5 games.

I just find the games more engaging than most, even though I really don't care about the stories at all. I appreciate that the games let me play in a way that doesn't emphasise the story. There are very few games where the story means anything to me, so I guess I just don't place a premium on stories in games!

But yeah... Never got around to finishing DS3, so I'm pretty fatigued on the series anyway.

 

[lexony]

I really like Portal, but I think Portal 2 is the better game.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

To be honest it has been a long time. I would HONESTLY need a retranslation of both games to be sure what is going on. I was turned off of both games because of the writing as it is. And I didn't like any of the fan stuff really. My 2D RPG game to take the place of Earthbound would be Lunar 1 or 2 complete editions.

Haven't played the Lunar games. Most of the SNES RPGs (and even the PS1 ones by extention) I have played are mostly poorly written games with repetitive battle systems that are saved mostly by visuals (for the SNES games anyway) and music.

Of the bulk that I played the only one I really find holds up is Chrono Trigger because its story doesn't take itself seriously enough for weaker written parts to really matter. The setting, music and graphics carry it and I think the cast is really charming in part because they aren't aiming to be "teh drama" or "teh artificial depth in our pretentious political drama". The gameplay is pretty simple standard ATB but it's not a long game and there is normally enough mixup to make it fine for what is really only like a 20 hour game.

I honestly don't think the JRPGs of the 4th and 5th gen are all that good. I don't mind seeing them excluded.

The game missing that bugs me is Yoshi's Island. God tier and hasn't aged at all.