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Edge Rumor: Natal To Cost $149, Bundled With Arcade For $299
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Bundle price Wii parity or it'll be a bust.
Jesus fuck they removed 5 bucks worth of silicon to sell it for 149$?
Jesus fuck they removed 5 bucks worth of silicon to sell it for 149$?
charlequin
Banned
cjelly said:
Again I would distinguish between actual "rumors" (i.e. things proffered by seemingly legitimate sources with some form of supposed truth backing them up) and "shit people on GAF make up speculative theories about to try to establish their prediction cred" on this one.
That seems to be who they're aiming for.Zen said:
For everyone else, we're getting a "new"/"relaunched" console for $150. It's cheap for a "next gen" console. Expensive for a "current gen" peripheral. Since it's a bit of both, it makes sense that the pricing is right in-between the two.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I wonder if RROD is going to hurt Natal with casuals.
It'll only take one review on a fairly large site (like CNN or Fox News) to mention 1/3 failure rates and it'll bomb. Casual gamers are not going to gamble on a system they know has a very high chance to fail, when a similar product (in the consumer's eyes) is offered at a similar price, and has a reputation as a good, sound product.
Microsoft is going to have to humble themselves and fix the problems with the 360 if they hope to sell consoles. The lack of free online, various technical problems, and the many different devices needed are going to bug casual gamers. They're going to go to connect their console, and notice they need an adapter for WiFi, and just quit. If they manage to get on, they'll go to play something, just to test it, and find out they need to pay 50$ a year. Then one day, the system will malfunction. Casual gamers are a (despite popular belief) a very difficult crowd to sell to.
Think of how simple the Wii is to "plug n play." It connects easily right to the family's wireless network, all games are free, it offers a simple menu, games are simply popped in, and can be played immediatly. No need for a hardrive, no need to install games, nothing. It's basically "Take out of box, plug in, and play."
I know it's probably something you guys will just disregard, but I know casual gamers. I've watched my family's process for buying Wii games and other video games, and how they react to computers. I mean, my mom needs me to install Java updates for her, but she'll pop in Wii Sports and play some bowling. If she had to install the game before playing, it would just frustrate her. My sister hops online with her boyfriend to play some Rockband. No need for any subscription or expensive attachment to easily get the console online.
TLDR version: The 360 is not a casual friendly console, and will be harder to sell than the Wii.
It'll only take one review on a fairly large site (like CNN or Fox News) to mention 1/3 failure rates and it'll bomb. Casual gamers are not going to gamble on a system they know has a very high chance to fail, when a similar product (in the consumer's eyes) is offered at a similar price, and has a reputation as a good, sound product.
Microsoft is going to have to humble themselves and fix the problems with the 360 if they hope to sell consoles. The lack of free online, various technical problems, and the many different devices needed are going to bug casual gamers. They're going to go to connect their console, and notice they need an adapter for WiFi, and just quit. If they manage to get on, they'll go to play something, just to test it, and find out they need to pay 50$ a year. Then one day, the system will malfunction. Casual gamers are a (despite popular belief) a very difficult crowd to sell to.
Think of how simple the Wii is to "plug n play." It connects easily right to the family's wireless network, all games are free, it offers a simple menu, games are simply popped in, and can be played immediatly. No need for a hardrive, no need to install games, nothing. It's basically "Take out of box, plug in, and play."
I know it's probably something you guys will just disregard, but I know casual gamers. I've watched my family's process for buying Wii games and other video games, and how they react to computers. I mean, my mom needs me to install Java updates for her, but she'll pop in Wii Sports and play some bowling. If she had to install the game before playing, it would just frustrate her. My sister hops online with her boyfriend to play some Rockband. No need for any subscription or expensive attachment to easily get the console online.
TLDR version: The 360 is not a casual friendly console, and will be harder to sell than the Wii.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm assuming MS's main goal is to sell more 360's, and they are using Natal as a trojan horse to appeal to the Wii audience. So we go back to square one, and look at how MS will appeal to casual gamers who are already trusted in Nintendo's system.Dabanton said:
It'll be a hard sell with the self imposed barriers the 360 puts on itself.
Vinterbird
Member
balladofwindfishes said:
The system is now as stable as any other console on the market, and Natal will be launched with a re-design of the system which will be more silent and as stable as the current systems.
They're rebranding the entire Xbox console with Natal, casuals will never know or care.
B-Rad Lascelle
Banned
The "self imposed barriers" you cited (1/3 failure rates) haven't been in play since late 2007. Hence why you received the "huh was that post from 2008?" response.balladofwindfishes said:
Any new Jasper 360 has the exact same likelihood of failure as the Wii & PS3 Slim. And while you could openly speculate that "Natal = New Hardware = Gasp, let's report on the debacle that was the prolific failure rate the last time Xbox released new hardware" the fundamental differences in play now that Natal is "not being rushed" and this is existing X360 architecture renders your argument moot.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Assuming you buy a Wii, Rockband, then a 360 and Rockband, to get them online and playing requires less effort on the Wii. Wireless networks are becoming the norm, and if MS wants to compete with the ease of access it provides, something needed to appeal to a casual gamer, they will need to include it for no addition fee.spwolf said:
Xbox live will need to be restructured so it offers "premium" content (achievements and a gamerscore) to payers, but allows for online play similar to the Wii's for free. A casual gamer is going to look at 50$ a year and wonder why they would do that when they could get a whole other game for that price.
B-Rad Lascelle said:
So Live is free now and all 360's have built in WiFi adapters?
charlequin
Banned
TheOddOne said:
Yes, I am sure there is going to be a little Wave icon on the front of the games that support it, but they're not going to have their own section at the store, they're not going to be in different colored or sized cases, they're still going to say "Xbox 360" on the front in big-ass letters. People are going to know what console they just bought and want to be able to buy other software for it. (Hell, people are also -- I feel silly for not thinking of this obvious reason why this idea is so goddamn fucking stupid it hurts my brain -- going to have access to XBLA where there are literally like three hundred games available for download every single one of which requires a controller to play.)
The idea that you can sell a 360 with no controller because it has Natal packed in remains utterly insipid.
balladofwindfishes said:
Very few of the people they are trying to attract here care about online. WiiSports isn't even an online game. Nor is WiiFit. Wii is a local console for local, social games. That's the bread and butter.
The whole post chain just reeks of ""I don't know how much you know about casual gamers (i'm an expert)"...... Get over yourself and your silly notions that xbox Live is the limitation that anyone is going to even think of. It's like reason #213 why this won't work. Let's focus on the big ticket items first.
Wave and Move will both flop because they are about 4 years too late. That party is over. It's shocking that they think they can still win this fight.
Better tech or no controller or whatever the fuck you try; it's all about as convincing as a new YouTube-clone or social networking website claiming they've unlocked the code.
The brand is simply too entrenched to be able to make any headway.
At this point I'm just waiting to see what Nintendo does next. I have a feeling that by the time Microsoft and Sony are finished positioning themselves to battle for a market that was captured years ago, Nintendo will already be on to something else and the catch-up cycle will have to start fresh anyways.
semiconscious
Gold Member
Hunahan said:
were i a betting man, i'd bet on this...
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Natal and Move don't have to match Wii numbers in order to be successful. They're just trying to take a larger piece of the pie. I think they both (natal in particular) have good potential.
Hunahan said:
This, or they could pull another virtual boy, Gamecube or I don't know, come up with some contraption you plug your finger into to read your freaking heartbeat. They're not flawless and just because they're selling more consoles this generation doesn't mean that the competition is going bankrupt and should stop trying. When this generation launched, who would have thought that Sony would be in last place by now? Nobody. It's amazing how people have such short memory.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
Man, this thread just keeps on giving.jamesinclair said:
It's even more "shocking" that anyone here still sees this as a "fight" to be "won" this console cycle. Nothing's going to change anytime soon in the balance of power.Hunahan said:
Nintendo redefined the console gaming market. It would be idiotic for MS and Sony not to follow that lead. Whether they're successful or not with their motion control initiatives has nothing to do with being "4 years too late." If anything, MS and Sony are trying to be 4 years early by getting a head start on their next console launch.
We're looking at the preliminary stages of yet another format war between MS and Sony. This time they're fighting to standardize motion controls for the next gen. Sony has the advantage of following directly in Nintendo's footsteps.
H_Prestige said:
Yeah but their overpriced accessories are rarely if ever essential to playing any of their games. I think there has been a couple of games that required an HD to play them and none of those were big flagship titles. MS's hope for Natal seems to be much grander then selling a million wheels for racers, or people upgrading their current systems memory capacity so that they can download movies or install games. I think they want the majority of current 360 owners to purchase this on its own along with games specific to it , while bringing in millions of new users. They do not see this as a nonessential accessory where they can mark it up significantly just for a very specific audience. At least if they want it to succeed on a grand scale that needs to be their vision for it. And considering the amount of marketing and focus they appear to be putting into it that $150 dollar pricetag looks like a horrible decision if true, and potential mass failure out of the gate.
Nintendo has proven addons can succeed; like the Wii Balance Board, Motion+ and I'm sure the Vitality Sensor too. Natal/Wave, or Move for that matter, can do the same. If that Bol.com ad is even vaguely close then Natal/Wave might sell well. The iphone/ipad have also taught me that people don't always need a controller - they can get by perfectly well with finger/hand swipes
WasteLand Soldier
Banned
Hunahan said:
fixed, broken, whatever
I love how the internet GAF these things before anything has been announced, mindboggling. Like I said before I love the spinning.charlequin said:
Also I didn't say I was for that the 360 controller should not be in the box, it would be the worst decision that MS has made (next to the rumoured price of Natal) in a long time.
Guys, I know MS is probably trying its best to make Natal successful with an untraditional audience (for the 360), but you're completely delusional if you disagree with charlequin here. If somehow Microsoft ended up doing the 360-controller-less bundle thing, it would be out of cheapness and/or carelessness and hubris.
To think that a console peripheral releasing 5 years after said console's launch would be so commercially groundbreaking that it would simultaneously bring incredible developer support and render the regular controller that's been used for 5 years-worth of massive retail a and downloadable content irrelevant strikes me as insane.
I know where you're coming from: it's for the Wii/a new audience! It doesn't matter!
Well, I'm afraid it does, actually. Charlequin already gave the obvious reasons why this would be stupid, but think of all the brand issues this would create. What's that controller-less 360 we're talking about? Some sort of bizarro world version of the 360 where everything the 360 has been marketed as doesn't exist any more? Are we to expect a second "species" of 360, a complete rebranding of the system so as to make it unrecognizable? Making the 360 schizoid makes no sense. Way to confuse developers too!
If Microsoft is going to go to such lengths to change the image of their system, they might as well launch a new console and call it quits with the 360. It would be a bit stupid of course because the 360 is far from dead, but less stupid than what's been proposed by some of you. Let's just not see Natal as a new console. It still is nothing but a peripheral for an existing machine. An ambitious peripheral, sure, but nothing more.
To think that a console peripheral releasing 5 years after said console's launch would be so commercially groundbreaking that it would simultaneously bring incredible developer support and render the regular controller that's been used for 5 years-worth of massive retail a and downloadable content irrelevant strikes me as insane.
I know where you're coming from: it's for the Wii/a new audience! It doesn't matter!
Well, I'm afraid it does, actually. Charlequin already gave the obvious reasons why this would be stupid, but think of all the brand issues this would create. What's that controller-less 360 we're talking about? Some sort of bizarro world version of the 360 where everything the 360 has been marketed as doesn't exist any more? Are we to expect a second "species" of 360, a complete rebranding of the system so as to make it unrecognizable? Making the 360 schizoid makes no sense. Way to confuse developers too!
If Microsoft is going to go to such lengths to change the image of their system, they might as well launch a new console and call it quits with the 360. It would be a bit stupid of course because the 360 is far from dead, but less stupid than what's been proposed by some of you. Let's just not see Natal as a new console. It still is nothing but a peripheral for an existing machine. An ambitious peripheral, sure, but nothing more.
onken
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Jesus christ this bs needs to stop right now.
Why exactly would you trick the few thousand people that actually read gaming rumors on the Internet about the price for a few days, even though your product is completely aimed at exactly NOT those kind of people? 99.9% of consumers are only going to see and know about the final price in October, not "gee, there was a brief rumor on the Internet 5 months ago that it was going to be more expensive, so this price seems like a complete bargain!"
charlequin
Banned
Dynoro said:
No, Nintendo (and Activision via Guitar Hero very slightly before them) has proven that software that requires addons can succeed. Every single one of Nintendo's successful peripherals or add-ons is sold with a game in which it is required or heavily used, and (this is the funny part) basically not used in any other game for the system in any way whatsoever.
Inasmuch as Microsoft and Sony think people will buy Natal/Move on their own so they can "pay for potential," they've got another think coming. Every add-on device in console history has lived and died on the strength of the game(s) you can buy it with.
TheOddOne said:
It's mindboggling to you that people apply extremely basic elementary reasoning in order to predict things about the near future?
Kilrogg said:
Monty Mole
Member
This is clearly a duodecuple-bluff from Microsoft.
Maby I'm taking to a brick wall, but since when it 'extremely basic elementary reasoning' source for confirming that their will be no difference between a normal 360 game and a Natal game? Uhh, that just speculation, there is no 'basic elementary reasoning' for your argument.charlequin said:
Also, I agree that not putting the 360 controller in the box is stupid.
charlequin said:
So it appears you can actually smile...
To be clear, I'm not entirely ruling out the possibility that Microsoft might want to go really far to rework the Xbox brand for the 360. I'm just saying that I don't think it likely because they're not that clueless... I think. Regardless of whether Microsoft actually does it or not, it's just stupid. Like, even more stupid than some of Nintendo's outlandish decisions, and that's saying a lot. But hey, the entire industry has proven to be quite oblivious about new audiences and everything the DS/Wii have brought to the market, so you never know. *shudders*
charlequin
Banned
TheOddOne said:
They are going to be in the same sized cases because they need to be shelved together with other games that come in DVD-style cases and retailers hate it when they have to juggle multiple case designs for the same product line. (I admit that upon considering it they could conceivably use different-colored cases as part of a branding strategy to showcase the Natal-specific games but there aren't a ton of options -- red, blue, green, white, and black are all off the table, so... what's left, and how are they going to associate that color with the Natal device?)
They are going to be shelved in the same section as the other games because stores shelve games based on what system they are for and these games are for the Xbox 360.
They are going to say "Xbox 360" on them because (again) they are games for the Xbox 360.
I really don't know why I am explaining these things.
Kilrogg said:
What? I'm a very happy-go-lucky guy. Look at how much fun that army guy I chose to put in my avatar is having dancing to Lady Gaga!
WasteLand Soldier
Banned
Monty Mole said:
nom de plume? what?
I wonder what the UK pricing of Natal will be like. I'm not going to assume that $150 will directly translate over to pounds, because US folks seem to pay more for everything 360 related. Some Amazon prices (.co.uk and .com) with dollar prices converted at the current exchange rate: -H_Prestige said:
250 GB HDD US = £89.13
250 GB HDD UK = £68.98
360 Elite US = £205 (with 2 free games - no choice)
360 Elite UK = £198 (choice of 2 free games including latest titles + free HDMI cable)
Wireless N Adapter US = £61.72
Wireless N Adapter UK = £39.91
charlequin
Banned
Neuromancer
Member
That is amazingcharlequin said:
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Wait, someone thought that the Natal/360 bundle won't have a regular controller? :lolThe_Inquisitor said: