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EGM: Toys for Bob & Ready at Dawn don't know what is going on with NX; GameTrust does

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Oh, how about a list, that features all comments, you know, including the ones who aren't running full doom? Like LCGeeks statements, or OsirisBlack, for example.

But i guess that would make it harder for your to keep on doom posting.

Is there a LCGeeks or OsirisBlack post in this thread?

Why don't you go check how I quoted both in the respective threads, OsirisBlack even multiple times and stick your doom somewhere?

Edit: there is a difference between a console being capable to receive decent ports and actually receiving those ports.
 
I suppose Matt, with his secon phrase, was stating how it's not as easy as Sammy was painting it about getting support (Sammy literally said ""Pffs, Nintendo doesn't have problems in getting games, just in selling them!" which is...an extreme semplification of the situation, honestly).

People expecting any kind of port parity between the paywall twins and the nx should let that hope die right noW.
 
Ok then, we won't see EA, Ubisoft and Activision games for NX at launch window.

NX is over and only Nintendo is developing games for it.

We can talk again in March 2017.
 
Ah yes, the magic Nintendo NDA. We've all seen how that turned out with WiiU.

It's a safe bet to assume that it's the same this time. Little to no support from 3rd Parties, because honestly, they simply don't need Nintendo or their Fans.
 
Is there a LCGeeks or OsirisBlack post in this thread?

Why don't you go check how I quoted both in the respective threads, OsirisBlack even multiple times and stick your doom somewhere?
Nah, you go and try to do that first, at least i'm not flip-flopping about my opinion between threads. And just because there are no posts in this thread from those users, they still posted relevant things about this.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Ok then, we won't see EA, Ubisoft and Activision games for NX at launch window.

NX is over and only Nintendo is developing games for it.

We can talk again in March 2017.

Can't wait to play that nice Donkey Kong game at launch.

Nah, you go and try to do that first, at least i'm not flip-flopping about my opinion between threads. And just because there are no posts in this thread from those users, they still posted relevant things about this.

It's not flipflopping, check my edit in the previous post if the difference is too subtle for you to acknowledge it.
 
In a world in which Nintendo gave a Wii U devkit to the guy who made Meme Run, it's not really true. Yeah, not anybody should get a devkit 9 moth before launch, but at least some basic info about NX should be available for the devs.

But right, it's better for the gaming community not to know what 3rd party games to expect on NX, why to hype anything for your next console.



This is exactly what I just said though.
 
Ok then, we won't see EA, Ubisoft and Activision games for NX at launch window.

NX is over and only Nintendo is developing games for it.

We can talk again in March 2017.

I don't think anyone is saying that, they're only saying that Nintendo needs to be working a bit more closely with more publishers/devs than we're currently being led to believe- we don't really know if they are or aren't planning any launch support, just that the information we have (whether or not it's accurate) doesn't paint the most hopeful picture.
 
I'm sure some third parties have dev kits. The ones that clearly do clearly haven't let NDAs stop them from speaking to the media and saying that they have had some sort of contact or future plans with Nintendo. Nobody is saying it’s an all or none situation. The problem is based on comments from key publishers and devs, in spite of the supposed threat of NDAs, Nintendo seems to be so keen on maintaining secrecy that they’re not even bothering to contact developers that are publishing games on the Wii U in 2016. Combine that with the long history of rocky relationships Nintendo has had with third parties and you have a strong argument that says that what these publishers are saying is true.

Yes, it makes sense that if Nintendo cares about fostering better third party support then a lot more devs would have dev kits. But it also makes sense that Nintendo would let people play upcoming games on the showroom floor that aren’t Zelda. Us coming to logical conclusions does not mean Nintendo has taken action to make it reality.

I just want to know what reasons do we have to believe otherwise. What evidence suggests these guys are being deceptive about merely communicating with Nintendo, while others haven’t had a problem saying they have? Some here even suggest publishers may have had contact with Nintendo but the devs tied to them are saying they don’t have any hardware, that’s not another sign that Nintendo is kind of dropping the ball this close to a rumored March 2017 release?

Those are logical conclusions to come to. I'm not saying they're correct, but I'm not discounting them either.

Obviously I don't know what Nintendo is doing, I haven't worked with them and I don't currently work with them. What I'm contesting is that if someone asks a developer about the NX, the answer can only ever be some variation of "I don't know".

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the NDA associated with the console expressly forbids people from even acknowledging the system or the NDA itself (in other words: "you must explicitly deny any knowledge of this").

It's for these reasons that I don't believe we should be attributing developer responses to information to a lack of actual progress. In fact, the only people that you could "confirm" don't have access to NX are those who have stated they haven't seen one without being prompted (such as various indies on Twitter and such)

I also think that people here on gaf don't really realise how important NDAs are to those who are under them. One of my closest friends works at an incredibly famous developer, and whilst he told me what said developer is going to be showing at e3 this year, even he had to do so incredibly cryptically. He didn't want to say it out loud, even in a cafe for fear of being overheard.

People can and will lose their jobs when these things are broken. It can also ruin careers across all industries, not just in games. If you're found to be untrustworthy you simply will never be hired in a position of responsibility ever again. Like someone said previously, it's not worth it for 15 mins of Internet fame.
 
I'll never understand why the stock response to a more cynical view is to claim someone's saying Nintendo is doomed and then flouncing about it.

People are just questioning why it seems Nintendo may not be bending over backwards to court as much third party support as possible, if indeed we're just nine months from release.
 
Ah yes, the magic Nintendo NDA. We've all seen how that turned out with WiiU.

It's a safe bet to assume that it's the same this time. Little to no support from 3rd Parties, because honestly, they simply don't need Nintendo or their Fans.

Wii u at least had some incentivized ports (albeit older ones) at launch

Wow, paywall twins. You might want to check that blood preasure.

Not like I said something untrue
 
It seems like the GameTrust guy is just giving PR speak that means no more than "we have a relationship with Nintendo and might make games for their platform", rather than saying that they know about the NX specifics.
The language didn't give any more info away than just that.
 

Sadist

Member
Yes, I know full well who Nintendo is talking to.

And you have a very optimistic read on the situation.
I allready assumed that Nintendo will have some tough talks with third party publishers and this doesn't surprise me. Although, Toys for Bob not hearing anything (even from their higher ups at Activision) is somewhat strange.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I allready assumed that Nintendo will have some tough talks with third party publishers and this doesn't surprise me. Although, Toys for Bob not hearing anything (even from their higher ups at Activision) is somewhat strange.

Again, if that's really the case, I could believe it's because there's another team working on it. An it wouldn't be the first time: Vicarious Visions did the Wii U SKU of Giants, while TfB developed the game on all the other home consoles.
 

spekkeh

Banned
"Im not allowed to comment" is so clearly saying "We know what it is" that I wouldn't be surprised if the actual NDA had stated within it that you must explicitly deny any knowledge of the console if queried.

Or, they could just be lying. People can lie you know, it's not illegal.
It's an NDA. It's not the mob leaning in on you that you know nothing and this conversation didn't take place capiche. You can always talk about working on stuff under NDA, you just can't say what it is exactly. Companies can't just tell their shareholders 'no I don't know where the money went. Also this conversation didn't take place or cousin Ninny will pay you a visit'.
 

LordRaptor

Member
It's an NDA. It's not the mob leaning in on you that you know nothing and this conversation didn't take place capiche. You can always talk about working on stuff under NDA, you just can't say what it is exactly. Companies can't just tell their shareholders 'no I don't know where the money went. Also this conversation didn't take place or cousin Ninny will pay you a visit'.

Companies can and do have commercially confident expenditures that are just bundled under a generic R&D expenses listing, and NDAs can and do include the existence of an NDA as part of the NDA.
 
All signs are pointing to repeat of the Wii U.
Hopefully we get a less shitty gimmick this time.

NOTHING pointa to that because we have no infos. I know, it is easy to shit on Nintendo because they didn't learn anything but we should not jump to conclusions because some people said they don't know anything. If I have learned one thing about companys comment anything in this business: until the thing is not announced they were asked about, they deny any knowledge about it. Even if it revealed two hours later.
I'm worried if the system gets revealed and no third party game is announced. Then we know Nintendo learned nothing. Now is the time to stay calm and...hope. *plays the Twilight Princess song*
 

Malus

Member
Rösti;205504765 said:
I can confirm that what Lou Studdert at Toys for Bob says regarding Nintendo NX is true. I'd even further emphasize "very" in this context. Of course, his comment appears to be a more general statement about Nintendo, but it applies very well to that of NX too.

I've talked about this in the past, but I thought I could chime in still.

You've confirmed this like 30 times lol.
 

MacTag

Banned
They're currently developing a NASCAR game for PC/PS4/XB1, which means they aren't developing an NX launch-window title (they're too small for that).

Given that you can count NCL's longstanding relationships with Western third-party studios on two fingers (NLG being the other), it's not a good sign.
3 fingers really, with Headstrong Games.
 
I guarantee things will look different once the console is unveiled later this year. Nintendo is being selective for launch titles, and Kimishima stated the reason for the delay in the first place was to have a solid software line-up.
 
Maybe Nintendo already talked with the executives but the developers dont know about the NX because the executives went "Lol no" on Nintendo.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Again, if that's really the case, I could believe it's because there's another team working on it. An it wouldn't be the first time: Vicarious Visions did the Wii U SKU of Giants, while TfB developed the game on all the other home consoles.

Guys. Is written on the wall. Even without matt confirmation, that we received, it is obvious that third party western support in the first year for nx will be absymal or non existent.

Wiiu sold like shit
Third party games have always sold like shit on nintendo consoles
Hardware wise it will be out of the loop with the upgraded new rivals

wiiu first year support will shine compared to the nx one. It has all ubisoft and Activision games, some EA games, many multiplatform games, some exclusive games and so on.
And despite that none of the game was able to sell decently.

If there will be some kind of support it will be because of a sort of hybrid library with the portable counterpart and will be from Japan and indie scene

Forget about ALL the rest.
 

~Cross~

Member
Depends. The handheld market is a huge audience still and there are experiences that you just can't get on a smart device.

The handheld market in the states, as far as western publishers are concerned, is dead. The only reason why we even get games over here is because of there is still demand in the japanese market and the way things are going its only going to get worse.

On the upside more developers are bringing their japanese mobile games to the states, even if its just an english patch!
 
Guys. Is written on the wall. Even without matt confirmation, that we received, it is obvious that third party western support in the first year for nx will be absymal or non existent.

Wiiu sold like shit
Third party games have always sold like shit on nintendo consoles
Hardware wise it will be out of the loop with the upgraded new rivals

wiiu first year support will shine compared to the nx one. It has all ubisoft and Activision games, some EA games, many multiplatform games, some exclusive games and so on.
And despite that none of the game was able to sell decently.

If there will be some kind of support it will be because of a sort of hybrid library with the portable counterpart and will be from Japan and indie scene

Forget about ALL the rest.

You're essentially ignoring all the evidence that points to some third party support:

- Developers saying it's very easy to port PS4/XB1 games
- Gaffer saying he was in a beta for a multiplat that's actively being ported to NX
- EA mentioning talks with Nintendo
-- EA rumored to be meeting with Nintendo about marketing EA games

And I'm sure there's more than that. For the other side, we essentially have a handful of developers (not publishers) saying they know nothing about the NX. If it's really as easy to port to as we're led to believe, these developers essentially don't need to know about the NX until it's unveiled, and they could likely port their games in <6 months.

I agree that we know none of this for certain (nothing at all for certain really) but I am fairly confident the NX support will be better than that of the Wii U, specifically because it will have a more standardized chipset which makes it easier to port to.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
You're essentially ignoring all the evidence that points to some third party support:

- Developers saying it's very easy to port PS4/XB1 games
- Gaffer saying he was in a beta for a multiplat that's actively being ported to NX
- EA mentioning talks with Nintendo
-- EA rumored to be meeting with Nintendo about marketing EA games

And I'm sure there's more than that. For the other side, we essentially have a handful of developers (not publishers) saying they know nothing about the NX. If it's really as easy to port to as we're led to believe, these developers essentially don't need to know about the NX until it's unveiled, and they could likely port their games in <6 months.

I agree that we know none of this for certain (nothing at all for certain really) but I am fairly confident the NX support will be better than that of the Wii U, specifically because it will have a more standardized chipset which makes it easier to port to.

there is no evidence of actual interest from western third party suppot at all.
even if some publishers is in talking and have the sdk that doesnt mean there is actual games in development.
EQ comments in prticular are pretty clear about them not having anything planned for the launch.

developers not having the sdk and maybe just pubishers discussing is another evidence.
being forced to delay the hw release to march 17 just to match the FY ending because of no games is another strong evidence too.
do you think that a new console with normal third party support and zelda and pikmin as exclusive first party games would need to be pushed away from the holiday release?



we should also keep in mind that the initial wiiu support wasn't that bad at all for a nintendo home console.
if we look at the firstnyear third party games is pretty clear how nx lunch will be inferior
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
You're essentially ignoring all the evidence that points to some third party support:

- Developers saying it's very easy to port PS4/XB1 games

Being easy to port to and actually greenlighting some ports are two very different actions. No guarantee.

- Gaffer saying he was in a beta for a multiplat that's actively being ported to NX

OK, you got one game.

- EA mentioning talks with Nintendo
-- EA rumored to be meeting with Nintendo about marketing EA games

Both these resulting in "let Nintendo come back with a worthy proposition and maybe we'll consider it". No games guaranteed.

So yeah. You got one game possible. Plus DQ and something Warriors. That's pretty much it until now. That doesn't contradict at all what Aostia was saying.
 
there is no evidence of actual interest from western third party suppot at all.
even if some publishers is in talking and have the sdk that doesnt mean there is actual games in development.
EQ comments in prticular are pretty clear about them not having anything planned for the launch.

developers not having the sdk and maybe just pubishers discussing is another evidence.
being forced to delay the hw release to march 17 just to match the FY ending because of no games is another strong evidence too.
do you think that a new console with normal third party support and zelda and pikmin as exclusive first party games would need to be pushed away from the holiday release?

we should also keep in mind that the initial wiiu support wasn't that bad at all for a nintendo home console.
if we look at the firstnyear third party games is pretty clear how nx lunch will be inferior

I find it odd that you're using the "delay" (the official reason for which was that more software would be ready by March 2017) as evidence that there won't be much software.

Either way, my point is that we have rumors from both sides- rumors suggesting there won't be much support and rumors stating there will be some support, and right now we really can't say either way. Jumping to conclusions that this means the NX launch will have few third party games is a bit premature.

Being easy to port to and actually greenlighting some ports are two very different actions. No guarantee.

OK, you got one game.

Both these resulting in "let Nintendo come back with a worthy proposition and maybe we'll consider it". No games guaranteed.

So yeah. You got one game possible. Plus DQ and something Warriors. That's pretty much it until now. That doesn't contradict at all what Aostia was saying.

Obviously we have few "confirmations," I wasn't debating that.

My point is that if you're willing to take all of these rumors and dev comments at face value, you should be taking all of the rumors, not just the ones where developers say "we got nothing."
 
Sounds like Nintendo is going to launch with Pilot Wings and Mario 64...then a nice 6-8 month drought.

Tatsumi Kimishima:
It’s something very new. The hardware, the software lineup, all of it is something I’d like to play for the first time myself. The NX is neither the successor to the Wii U nor to the 3DS. It’s a new way of playing games, which I think will have a larger impact that the Wii U, but I don’t feel it’s a pure replacement for the Wii U. When people finish the launch titles, they will want things to buy in spring, on summer break, at Christmas. As such, it’s not simply a question of when the hardware’s ready; rather, we need to ensure our software lineup is also in a good place.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
I find it odd that you're using the "delay" (the official reason for which was that more software would be ready by March 2017) as evidence that there won't be much software.

Either way, my point is that we have rumors from both sides- rumors suggesting there won't be much support and rumors stating there will be some support, and right now we really can't say either way. Jumping to conclusions that this means the NX launch will have few third party games is a bit premature.



Obviously we have few "confirmations," I wasn't debating that.

My point is that if you're willing to take all of these rumors and dev comments at face value, you should be taking all of the rumors, not just the ones where developers say "we got nothing."


the absence of any sort of rumor of actual games apart very few is emblematic of the situation
many insiders confirmed that the situation is just in terms of discussion, no actual games in firm development position
the march release is officially due to lack of software (with nintendo internal development freezed on 3ds or wiiu...that picture a very barren situation for third party support)

we can imagine a different situation for indie and Japanese softco, but western third parties will not be there at launch and even for the fall '17 I am pessimistic

you say we should take in consideration also positive rumors but the actual game-related rumors are just DQX, DQXI, Koei officially at work on something. those are from Japan.
indie games lire Rise and a couple more.
the only western ones are two from Ubisoft I think. Beyond good and evil 2 and a "beta tested" one
 

thefro

Member
Yes, Virginia, there is an NDA...

Original trailer from 5/31
MlS6xctg.png


Censored trailer from 6/3
QgNgs4t.jpg
 
People really think this thing is going to have 3rd party support too.

Nothing is leaking because of the NDA. It's the world's first completely effective NDA. Sony and MS should look into however these NDAs are written. Of course, if they could even find the NDA. This NDA is so rock solid it's hard to prove it exists. But we know it's there. It's like the illuminati. It's the IllumaNDAti.
 
I'd assume, if anything, it's not merely the NDA but also the use of a codename that's meant the trailer had to be altered. It's the kind of thing a company yet to reveal a product - and its official title - may want to keep out of advertising material. It just muddies the waters.

Perhaps more than any previous console, the term NX is becoming synonymous with the system now, and doesn't feel like a placeholder name any more.
 
the absence of any sort of rumor of actual games apart very few is emblematic of the situation
many insiders confirmed that the situation is just in terms of discussion, no actual games in firm development position
the march release is officially due to lack of software (with nintendo internal development freezed on 3ds or wiiu...that picture a very barren situation for third party support)

we can imagine a different situation for indie and Japanese softco, but western third parties will not be there at launch and even for the fall '17 I am pessimistic

you say we should take in consideration also positive rumors but the actual game-related rumors are just DQX, DQXI, Koei officially at work on something. those are from Japan.
indie games lire Rise and a couple more.
the only western ones are two from Ubisoft I think. Beyond good and evil 2 and a "beta tested" one

So we have 2 rumored western games, 1 backtracked indie game, 2 backtracked JP games, multiple rumored Bandai Namco games, 1 of which is likely Smash, and Koei confirmation that they're doing something. That's at least 7 rumored third party games (6 not counting Smash I suppose) not counting anything from Koei Tecmo. I'm sure I'm missing some rumors too.

On the other side, we have a handful of developers saying they don't know anything about the NX. We have Toys for Bob, Ready at Dawn, Thomas Mahler... who else? I'm sure there are more, but the general theme of this point is that they aren't big publishers, they are generally small to medium sized developers.

For better or worse, Nintendo typically doesn't approach these types of teams directly before a console launch. See the Wii U- they were in direct talks with EA, Ubisoft and Activision and they got several games from each of them around the launch window. The development teams who made those games likely didn't have much info before the console was revealed, yet the games were still made.

The point is, just because we have a handful of developers stating that they aren't working on anything NX or don't know anything about NX doesn't mean none of them will be making NX software, even for the launch period. The fact that we already have these 7 rumored games I listed should actually be encouraging if you take every rumor at face value, because I don't remember this many rumored games from when the Wii U was launching.

It's just best to keep in mind that this industry is VERY secretive, Nintendo leading the charge in that area, so the lack of evidence of third party games does not indicate that there won't be any.

Edit:
Nothing is leaking because of the NDA. It's the world's first completely effective NDA. Sony and MS should look into however these NDAs are written. Of course, if they could even find the NDA. This NDA is so rock solid it's hard to prove it exists. But we know it's there. It's like the illuminati. It's the IllumaNDAti.

Actually I would wager that Sony and MS know the value of a few leaks here and there to drum up hype. Nintendo on the other hand sadly believes that any sort of leak is a failure for them, even though often times leaks can be good things.

People really think this thing is going to have 3rd party support too.

The Wii U launched with a relatively impressive number of third party games. Not the best quality since many of them were late ports, but the games were there nonetheless. I don't expect any less at the NX launch.
 
Actually I would wager that Sony and MS know the value of a few leaks here and there to drum up hype. Nintendo on the other hand sadly believes that any sort of leak is a failure for them, even though often times leaks can be good things.

That's not how it works in the real world. An international multibillion dollar corporation doesn't go to a developer and say "hey, here's this NDA. Sign it. But, seriously, don't worry about it. Go ahead and leak some stuff. It's cool. Yeah, this document? This NDA? It's cool. We want you to talk about stuff. We're signing you to an NDA to generate hype."

but they do seem to have somewhat loose NDAs compared to Nintendo, as we've seen from these massive and detailed rumors about Neo and Scorpio, yet pretty much bupkis about NX.

Could be lots of reasons for that that have not much to do with NDAs.
 
That's not how it works in the real world. An international multibillion dollar corporation doesn't go to a developer and say "hey, here's this NDA. Sign it. But, seriously, don't worry about it. Go ahead and leak some stuff. It's cool. Yeah, this document? This NDA? It's cool. We want you to talk about stuff. We're signing you to an NDA for hype."

What I mean is they know that issuing a NDA that's too restrictive can be frustrating for the developers and the fans. Clearly their NDAs aren't nearly as tight as those Nintendo are using for the NX, we have Rosti here essentially confirming that these NX NDAs are among the most restrictive agreements Nintendo has ever used.

Obviously they aren't telling developers to go ahead and leak stuff, but they do seem to have somewhat loose NDAs compared to Nintendo, as we've seen from these massive and detailed rumors about Neo and Scorpio, yet pretty much bupkis about NX. I don't see how that can be debated.
 
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