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Eiji Aonuma: No one explicitly said that that was Link.
- Thread starter dmr87
- Start date
She just works out a lot.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
In this particular case, how so? It's not like being male is intrinsically tied to the character of Link in any way what-so-ever, beyond the fact that he has just happened to be male every time so far. And it's not like Link has any character or personality traits that wouldn't work well with a gender-swap. There's really no reason, canon or otherwise, that Link couldn't be female, or for Link being female to be notable at all beyond simply being the first time.
I'd say without a doubt Wind Waker Link to Twilight Princess Link is a far, far bigger change than Skyward Sword Link to this "Link". Both in terms of visual design and Link's subtle personality traits.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Ignoring the eyelash/eyebrow matter, the ponytail, and the apparent breasts mentioned previously in this thread, and the way that the ears seem to more closely resemble Zelda's than Link's (also mentioned in this thread), I read up on the major dimorphism-based traits between men and women, and compared this protagonist to the Links from Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess in these traits.
The most conclusive differences I could find are as follows:
- This protagonist has a particularly low waist-to-hip ratio (that is, the character has thinner waist compared to the character's hips than SS or TP Link)
- This protagonist has thinner shoulders: TP and SS Link have broader shoulders.
- This protagonist has a rounder face than Skyward Sword's Link or Twilight Princess's Link.
- This protagonist seems to have more muscle in the back of his or her thigh, whereas Links past tended to have more muscle in the front.
- The bent knees makes this a little difficult to judge, but I think this protagonist has longer legs relative to his or her torso compared to the leg-torso ratio present in TP's and SS's Links.
It is said that the most dimorphic areas on the human body (that is, the areas that differ the most between males and females) are the chest, lower half of the face, and the waist down to the knees. If I'm accurate, then these areas all more closely resemble female characteristics on this protagonist than they do male characteristics. If I'm wrong on any of these accounts or if I'm overlooking details that make the protagonist seem more likely to be a male, do not hesitate to point them out for the sake of discussion.
If I'm accurate on these accounts yet the protagonist is still revealed to be male, it would be a testament to Link's androgyny, but Nintendo generally doesn't overlook details like this. This company knows how to make characters attractive to the player, etc., so these are most certainly not details that would simply be overlooked when designing the character.
I'm proud of this post, darn it, but the bigger reason I self-quote here is because I'm still reading people declaring that the character is male without this level of objective justification.
These physical traits here are not culture-specific the way that earrings, ponytails, or bow and arrow as weapon choices are: these characteristics are exclusively determined by the same processes that determine your biological sex to begin with. These are also not characteristics that Nintendo would simply glance over or be unaware of when designing a character.
darkhunger
Member
The issue with your post is, like many others, it assumes this character is the same age as the Adult Link from Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword.
To me, based on the proportions of head vs body length and the relatively round face and features, this character looks like someone in the late preteens, a 11 or 12 year old. Before puberty, where any of the gender-specific characteristics that you are citing start popping up.. Kids that age aren't sexually dimorphic. So your entire analysis falls apart if that is true (and I don't think you can prove that its not)
Young Link wore a dress and we could still tell he was a boy.
EDIT: I think she looks just like a tomboy girl. If that's what Nintendo was going for, they absolutely nailed it.
Can't blame you for reposting, it's damn good and people should read it. There's quite a few aspects about the character model that lean toward being female and you pointed them out pretty well. Also, the eyes appear more rounded as well where as at least SS Link had much harder eyes.
darkhunger
Member
SoraanTribal
Member
It's a good post, but I still disagree and think it's a male Link. I don't really care what sex Link is personally, but I still think Link is male. I didn't even realize people thought it was possibly a girl until a while after I had watched the trailer.
My question is... Will people be disappointed in Link's model if it is a male character? Will they complain that Link is too "girly"? For me, I love his (or her) character model no matter what the sex is.
As someone else said, he looks a bit younger than TP/SS Link which could be making people see him as a female.
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.
Maybe all the dudes look like this, maybe all the girls in this art style are midgets with giant boobs. It's hard to tell the difference when we're studying a completely different art style.
I'll stay on the fence for a bit longer.
darkhunger
Member
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.
Maybe all the dudes look like this, maybe all the girls in this art style are midgets with giant boobs. It's hard to tell the difference when we're studying a completely different art style.
I'll stay on the fence for a bit longer.
Yup, I'd love to see a female protag for this game but I wouldn't place all my eggs on that basket just yet.
HolyBaikal
Banned
But, um, the character doesn't really have apparent breasts.
Suzushiiro
Banned
The fact that the character is using a bow rather than a sword/shield and isn't wearing Link's normal outfit pretty much confirms that it isn't Link to me. I'm not 100% convinced they're a girl, but it's certainly something I'd like to see happen.
There's going to be a lot of rage on the internet if it turns out to be a guy, though.
There's going to be a lot of rage on the internet if it turns out to be a guy, though.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Cue "flat chested girls need more representation in mainstream gaming" movement. ;P
If there isn't one, I'm one will start up soon enough!
Suzushiiro
Banned
She could be very flat-chested, or be binding her breasts.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Actually, puberty begins at about that age, which means that even then some of these signs should at least begin to manifest.
As for providing a counter-example to place the age of the protagonist as significantly older than you suggest, here's a screen capture from the trailer that I found via Google search. The title of the video and time stamp are included, so I was able to verify with my own eyes that no photoshopping was done and so can you:
The character has what appear to be developed female breasts. Even when alternate angles are switched to, lighting and shadows show that they're present.
SoraanTribal
Member
I don't really understand this. Link doesn't always start with his green tunic like in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword. The outfit shown so far just looks like your typical starting village clothes.
Secondly, a bow is one of Link's most iconic weapons (besides his sword/sword). It's generally one of the first items you get in the games. Plus, I think they wanted to show off the cool new arrows for the trailer and opted to use the bow instead of the sword/shield.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I sure hope there is a movement for this. And that it includes many more people than just me.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Oh please. Okay, Link is "Hylian" (human)
HolyBaikal
Banned
Yep, I agree. Many women are flat chested.
That was a response to RMS' post. RMS I believe was saying that this character looks more feminine than masculine. And said that apparent breasts were one of the reasons.
I personally don't think that having breasts makes you any more or less of a woman.
Barkley's Justice
Member
#Ashitaka
darkhunger
Member
Actually everyone reaches puberty at different ages. Some people still look prepubescent when they are 16. And signs (like those you describe) may not be completely evident until they are a few years into puberty.
That could be just the loose clothing popping out due to momentum. The strap just happens to be in the middle of his/her chest and making it look like something its not. I think based on every other shot of the character there is no sign of breasts.
HolyBaikal
Banned
And some people don't reach puberty at all. Also, some people don't develop breasts during puberty, or wide hips, or fat around the thighs. Or broad shoulders, or body hair.
And not all women have breasts, or a 'waist to hip ratio' that is a waist being smaller an hips. Especially if they're people of weight.
But I guess, or hope, this is all being done for comparison to what video games normally represent people's gender as. Not what the diversity of gender actually is. Video games don't really represent gender as diverse as it actually is.
But plenty enough male characters in video games are this feminine. Gender representation in Japanese video games isn't perfect, but luckily, many developers don't seem scared of portraying effeminate and androgynous male characters.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I took these screencaps myself:
Right as the trailer is fading out (hence all of the white), even upon righting himself or herself, though the "cup size" is smaller (the fabric probably did make them appear larger as the character was hunched over), they can still be seen.
They can also be seen when viewing the character from the side as he or she jumps off of the horse:
Relatively flat-chested, but still sized enough to be female breasts.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I think that's just the shirt being loose.
There are other ones where the shirt isn't being loose where they look completely flat chested.
There are other ones where the shirt isn't being loose where they look completely flat chested.
But who did they show off WW, TP, and SS link in the first trailers? In full link Garb. This is an anomaly.
eyeball_kid
Member
I don't see the roundness of features you're talking about, at all. Quite the opposite, this person looks like they've lost all their pre-teen chubbiness, and looks to be at the youngest 17 or 18. Bone structure is well-defined. The way the emotions are portrayed also points to an adult. The look of concentration is confident and shows experience, and not, "I'm a kid but i'm going to concentrate reeeeally hard" that you usually see preteens who are fighting portrayed as.
darkhunger
Member
Exactly... And the second image is just the strap poking out... it's clearer on this image...
I think its just a case of people seeing what they want to see.
Really?
That expression looks like a kid's to me. Round eyes, small nose and round face. No shape features or bone structures visible. Obviously this is a well trained, seasoned fighter, but this is animu and kids being like that is bread and butter there.
SoraanTribal
Member
Yeah but nothing says they have to ALWAYS show him off in full garb each reveal. They have done it in the past, yeah, but maybe they just wanted to change it up when showing off the new arrows/bow. *shrug*
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
I really doubt this is Zelda. Why would Zelda look so much like Link? Same earrings, same hair (besides the pony tail), and the same kind of clothes (boots, pants, gloves, belt, style - but not color - of shirt). If this was Zelda then there couldn't be a Link in the game, because they would look the same. How weird would that be? Unless they really do end up completely switching their roles and Link is a prince or something.
I know some people are pushing for Aryll, and I think that is slightly more likely because of this character's similarity to Link, but again, they aren't going to put two characters in the game that look the same. So, I doubt it's Aryll unless she completely replaces Link. Not having Link in the game at all seems incredibly unlikely to me.
I also doubt it's a girl version of Link. Why do that? The fact that this character is right handed (like Zelda) and no longer has Epona makes me think it can't be Link. Unless they're arbitrarily changing everything about Link. But then why be Link at all at that point?
The most likely theory is that this is the child or at least a descendant of both Link and Zelda. That's why this character uses light arrows and shoots a bow right handed, like Zelda, but bears such a strong resemblance to Link.
I don't know whether or not this character is male or female. I could see them being either female or a young boy. If this is a new character, and it is a descendant of Link and Zelda, making the character a girl wouldn't be unusual and might even be more likely in order to differentiate this person from Link.
I know some people are pushing for Aryll, and I think that is slightly more likely because of this character's similarity to Link, but again, they aren't going to put two characters in the game that look the same. So, I doubt it's Aryll unless she completely replaces Link. Not having Link in the game at all seems incredibly unlikely to me.
I also doubt it's a girl version of Link. Why do that? The fact that this character is right handed (like Zelda) and no longer has Epona makes me think it can't be Link. Unless they're arbitrarily changing everything about Link. But then why be Link at all at that point?
The most likely theory is that this is the child or at least a descendant of both Link and Zelda. That's why this character uses light arrows and shoots a bow right handed, like Zelda, but bears such a strong resemblance to Link.
I don't know whether or not this character is male or female. I could see them being either female or a young boy. If this is a new character, and it is a descendant of Link and Zelda, making the character a girl wouldn't be unusual and might even be more likely in order to differentiate this person from Link.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I wish people didn't think they could tell someone's gender and stuff like that by what they look like. :/
Crazy talk.
I'm having a hard time seeing this character as a day younger than 16, and that's being generous. The features are too elongated to imply a character THAT young.
Whatever gender this character is, it's clearly approaching adulthood.
Beelzeboss
Member
It feels like they're just messing with people right now.
"No one explicitly said that that was Link"
He's right nobody said that was Link but that doesn't mean it wasn't Link.
"No one explicitly said that that was Link"
He's right nobody said that was Link but that doesn't mean it wasn't Link.
MindCollizion
Member
I think the thing that gives it away more is that the "belt"/straps sit on her waist at an angle rather than straight across like all male Links in the past.
darkhunger
Member
Heck no. Check the ratio between the head and the torso. That's too close to 50:50 for an adult IMO. This character may not be entirely prepubescent but the elongated and thin arms and legs show that they might have started their growth but have yet to fill out. Definitely far from being an adult character.
And again, that face is not that of an adult, anime or not.
Not sure what you mean. Its always been worn that way?
RMS Gigantic
Member
Even ignoring breasts, the other sign that the character is within or past the age of puberty should be the long, thin legs. For legs like that, the person should be at an age for other sexual dimorphism traits to make themselves apparent.
It's a round face, which is a secondary sex characteristic of women, especially in the lower half of the face.
I personally place the character's age as either late teens or some point in his or her 20's.
It's a round face, which is a secondary sex characteristic of women, especially in the lower half of the face.
I personally place the character's age as either late teens or some point in his or her 20's.
Zomba13
Member
"No one explicitly said that wasn't Link"
He's just noticed the conversation, especially after being asked, and is going with it because more people are talking about it. Yeah, no one said it was Link. No one also said it wasn't Link. No one said it wasn't Mario either.
I agree that this character is likely still in their teens, but 11 or 12? No way. Too young.
And I don't know about you, but I didn't have hips as a kid. Hips are something you gain when you mature, not lose.
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.
Maybe all the dudes look like this, maybe all the girls in this art style are midgets with giant boobs. It's hard to tell the difference when we're studying a completely different art style.
I'll stay on the fence for a bit longer.
There are rules when it comes to proportions and anatomy regardless of the art style. That and based on what we've seen of this game (so far) it seems to follow more natural and realistic rules of portraying people.
SolidSnakex
Member
This is probably old by now, but
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/06/11/is-link-a-girl-in-zelda-on-wii-u.aspx
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/06/11/is-link-a-girl-in-zelda-on-wii-u.aspx
Mango The Magician
Banned
Do guys think that maybe Aonuma was referring to the design of Link and not the character himself? Like, "that may or may not be what Link looks like." Cause I really just want to play as Link.
darkhunger
Member
The character doesn't really have hips. It looks wider on that one shot because of the pose (the knees are raised making his/her butt look bigger.)
Round faces are a characteristic of young kids. Men's faces tend to acquire sharper more chisel features after puberty, and as do women.
aronnov reborn
Banned
very interesting.. not sure how i'd feel if there was no link at all....