Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Could still be a girl
Could still be a girl
I think a design/style change is a bit different than a complete gender swap.
Ignoring the eyelash/eyebrow matter, the ponytail, and the apparent breasts mentioned previously in this thread, and the way that the ears seem to more closely resemble Zelda's than Link's (also mentioned in this thread), I read up on the major dimorphism-based traits between men and women, and compared this protagonist to the Links from Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess in these traits.
The most conclusive differences I could find are as follows:
- This protagonist has a particularly low waist-to-hip ratio (that is, the character has thinner waist compared to the character's hips than SS or TP Link)
- This protagonist has thinner shoulders: TP and SS Link have broader shoulders.
- This protagonist has a rounder face than Skyward Sword's Link or Twilight Princess's Link.
- This protagonist seems to have more muscle in the back of his or her thigh, whereas Links past tended to have more muscle in the front.
- The bent knees makes this a little difficult to judge, but I think this protagonist has longer legs relative to his or her torso compared to the leg-torso ratio present in TP's and SS's Links.
It is said that the most dimorphic areas on the human body (that is, the areas that differ the most between males and females) are the chest, lower half of the face, and the waist down to the knees. If I'm accurate, then these areas all more closely resemble female characteristics on this protagonist than they do male characteristics. If I'm wrong on any of these accounts or if I'm overlooking details that make the protagonist seem more likely to be a male, do not hesitate to point them out for the sake of discussion.
If I'm accurate on these accounts yet the protagonist is still revealed to be male, it would be a testament to Link's androgyny, but Nintendo generally doesn't overlook details like this. This company knows how to make characters attractive to the player, etc., so these are most certainly not details that would simply be overlooked when designing the character.
I'm proud of this post, darn it, but the bigger reason I self-quote here is because I'm still reading people declaring that the character is male without this level of objective justification.
These physical traits here are not culture-specific the way that earrings, ponytails, or bow and arrow as weapon choices are: these characteristics are exclusively determined by the same processes that determine your biological sex to begin with. These are also not characteristics that Nintendo would simply glance over or be unaware of when designing a character.
I'm proud of this post, darn it, but the bigger reason I self-quote here is because I'm still reading people declaring that the character is male without this level of objective justification.
These physical traits here are not culture-specific the way that earrings, ponytails, or bow and arrow as weapon choices are: these characteristics are exclusively determined by the same processes that determine your biological sex to begin with. These are also not characteristics that Nintendo would simply glance over or be unaware of when designing a character.
The issue with your post is, like many others, it assumes this character is the same age as the Adult Link from Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword.
To me, based on the proportions of head vs body length and the relatively round face and features, this character looks like someone in the late preteens, a 11 or 12 year old. Before puberty, where any of the gender-specific characteristics that you are citing start popping up.. Kids that age aren't sexually dimorphic. So your entire analysis falls apart if that is true (and I don't think you can prove that its not)
I'm proud of this post, darn it, but the bigger reason I self-quote here is because I'm still reading people saying the character is male without this level of justification.
These physical traits here are not culture-specific the way that earrings, ponytails, or bow and arrow as weapon choices are: these characteristics are exclusively determined by the same processes that determine your biological sex to begin with. These are also not characteristics that Nintendo would simply glance over or be unaware of when designing a character.
Young Link wore a dress and we could still tell he was a boy.
I'm proud of this post, darn it, but the bigger reason I self-quote here is because I'm still reading people declaring that the character is male without this level of objective justification.
These physical traits here are not culture-specific the way that earrings, ponytails, or bow and arrow as weapon choices are: these characteristics are exclusively determined by the same processes that determine your biological sex to begin with. These are also not characteristics that Nintendo would simply glance over or be unaware of when designing a character.
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.Can't blame you for reposting, it's damn good and people should read it. There's quite a few aspects about the character model that lean toward being female and you pointed them out pretty well. Also, the eyes appear more rounded as well where as at least SS Link had much harder eyes.
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.
Maybe all the dudes look like this, maybe all the girls in this art style are midgets with giant boobs. It's hard to tell the difference when we're studying a completely different art style.
I'll stay on the fence for a bit longer.
But, um, the character doesn't really have apparent breasts.
But, um, the character doesn't really have apparent breasts.
The issue with your post is, like many others, it assumes this character is the same age as the Adult Link from Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword.
To me, based on the proportions of head vs body length and the relatively round face and features, this character looks like someone in the late preteens, a 11 or 12 year old. Before puberty, where any of the gender-specific characteristics that you are citing start popping up.. Kids that age aren't sexually dimorphic. So your entire analysis falls apart if that is true (and I don't think you can prove that its not)
The fact that the character is using a bow rather than a sword/shield and isn't wearing Link's normal outfit pretty much confirms that it isn't Link to me. I'm not 100% convinced they're a girl, but it's certainly something I'd like to see happen.
There's going to be a lot of rage on the internet if it turns out to be a guy, though.
I sure hope there is a movement for this. And that it includes many more people than just me.Cue "flat chested girls need more representation in mainstream gaming" movement. ;P
If there isn't one, I'm one will start up soon enough!
Link isn't human.
Yep, I agree. Many women are flat chested.She could be very flat-chested, or be binding her breasts.
Actually everyone reaches puberty at different ages. Some people still look prepubescent when they are 16. And signs (like those you describe) may not be completely evident until they are a few years into puberty.Actually, puberty begins at about that age, which means that even then some of these signs should at least begin to manifest.
As for providing a counter-example to place the age of the protagonist as significantly older than you suggest, here's a screen capture from the trailer that I found via Google search. The title of the video and time stamp are included, so I was able to verify with my own eyes that no photoshopping was done and so can you:
The character has what appear to be developed female breasts. Even when alternate angles are switched to, lighting and shadows show that they're present.
And some people don't reach puberty at all. Also, some people don't develop breasts during puberty, or wide hips, or fat around the thighs. Or broad shoulders, or body hair.Actually everyone reaches puberty at different ages. Some people still look prepubescent when they are 16.
That could be just the loose clothing popping out due to momentum. The strap just happens to be in the middle of his/her chest and making it look like something its not. I think based on every other shot of the character there is no sign of breasts.
I don't really understand this. Link doesn't always start with his green tunic like in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword. The outfit shown so far just looks like your typical starting village clothes.
Secondly, a bow is one of Link's most iconic weapons (besides his sword/sword). It's generally one of the first items you get in the games. Plus, I think they wanted to show off the cool new arrows for the trailer and opted to use the bow instead of the sword/shield.
To me, based on the proportions of head vs body length and the relatively round face and features, this character looks like someone in the late preteens, a 11 or 12 year old.
I think that's just the shirt being loose.
There are other ones where the shirt isn't being loose where they look completely flat chested.
Really?I don't see the roundness of features you're talking about, at all. Quite the opposite, this person looks like they've lost all their pre-teen chubbiness, and looks to be at the youngest 17 or 18. Bone structure is well-defined. The way the emotions are portrayed also points to an adult. The look of concentration is confident and shows experience, and not, "I'm a kid but i'm going to concentrate reeeeally hard" that you usually see preteens who are fighting portrayed as.
But who did they show off WW, TP, and SS link in the first trailers? In full link Garb. This is an anomaly.
The issue with your post is, like many others, it assumes this character is the same age as the Adult Link from Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword.
To me, based on the proportions of head vs body length and the relatively round face and features, this character looks like someone in the late preteens, a 11 or 12 year old. Before puberty, where any of the gender-specific characteristics that you are citing start popping up.. Kids that age aren't sexually dimorphic. So your entire analysis falls apart if that is true (and I don't think you can prove that its not)
Crazy talk.
I'm having a hard time seeing this character as a day younger than 16, and that's being generous. The features are too elongated to imply a character THAT young.
Whatever gender this character is, it's clearly approaching adulthood.
I think the thing that gives it away more is that the "belt"/straps sit on her waist at an angle rather than straight across like all male Links in the past.
And again, that face is not that of an adult, anime or not.
It feels like they're just messing with people right now.
"No one explicitly said that that was Link"
He's right nobody said that was Link but that doesn't mean it wasn't Link.
Heck no. Check the ratio between the head and the torso. That's too close to 50:50 for an adult IMO. This character may not be entirely prepubescent but the elongated and thin arms and legs show that they might have started their growth but have yet to fill out. Definitely far from being an adult character.
And again, that face is not that of an adult, anime or not.
But it's hard to be for sure because it's a new art style.
Maybe all the dudes look like this, maybe all the girls in this art style are midgets with giant boobs. It's hard to tell the difference when we're studying a completely different art style.
I'll stay on the fence for a bit longer.
Q: What are your reactions to everyone's reactions to the Zelda Wii U reveal?
Eiji Aonuma: Because I have been at E3, I haven't had much time to spend in doing this research, but I certainly have been checking fan reaction and I am really excited many comments have said how beautiful the game looks. The designers have been working really hard to make sure the visuals look like something players don't expect, or maybe something they haven't seen before, and this applies to not just to the scenery, but to the enemies and things like that.
Another interesting comment I've heard, quite frequently actually, is that, "Oh Link's a woman. Link is female now."
Q: I thought that, too. I thought maybe it was Zelda when I first saw Link on Epona in the distance.
Eiji Aonuma: That might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific I am not saying anything specific but, I am hoping people continue to comment, and I will continue to follow the fan comments and reactions to the trailer. I am certainly curious, and I am sure there are things we as developers can glean.
I agree that this character is likely still in their teens, but 11 or 12? No way. Too young.
And I don't know about you, but I didn't have hips as a kid. Hips are something you gain when you mature, not lose.
Even ignoring breasts, the other sign that the character is within or past the age of puberty should be the long, thin legs. For legs like that, the person should be at an age for other sexual dimorphism traits to make themselves apparent.
It's a round face, which is a secondary sex characteristic of women, especially in the lower half of the face.
I personally place the character's age as either late teens or some point in his or her 20's.