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[nowhat]

I can agree. Microsoft has been streaming via the Xbox Live app to stream from you Xbox to your laptop. We can call this streaming, I guess, that's cool.

However, we arent talking about streaming while within the vicinity of the consoles itself. (which is cool. I've done it a few times.) We're talking about streaming while away from your console from anywhere, from your entire collection and Game Pass online via phone, tablet etc.

As noted above, it's not limited "within the vicinity" of your console, but anywhere if you have a fast enough connection. I've played games at the office via 4G on Xperia Z2/Z3c, it worked fine (well, the GCM10 controller mount sucks - do not get one - but as far as streaming is concerned it was fine).

Granted, there's the limitation of you having to have the game in question installed on your console at the time, so you can't access your entire library. But what you're describing (accessing your entire library and Game Pass content) doesn't exist yet now does it? So you're comparing a service that already exists and works to a hypothetical service (that may very well materialize and be great, but doesn't exist yet).

 

[Jigsaah]

I'm still in wait and see mode. There's too many changes coming and too much we don't know about to call it one way or another. You got Xbox launching 4 consoles, 3 of which I believe will be technically next gen. That's unheard of thus far for a generation launch. We don't know dick about these consoles other than One's high end, one's middle gound and one is cheap and streamy. They got Xcloud in the works and these new studios where we don't know what they are working on or when it will arrive. They also still plan on buying even more studios. This is financial flexing like we've never seen before in the gaming industry. I've made posts before about how Microsoft should stop and chew its food. People thought I was fanboying for Sony. Whatever, I'm not...period. It's just an unbiased opinion and genuine concern.

On the Sony side, you have a ton of exclusives releasing probably toward the end of this generation and probably cross-gen games. You have version 2 of PSVR, which might be right in time to really kick off VR in a more popular direction. You also have the mystery shrouded in their exit from E3. What are they planning? Is it so huge that it warrants the departure? We also know from job listings that Sony is also looking to acquire new studios and they are now working towards building up their stream capabilities. However, is Sony going to give us true backwards compatibility? From what I understand, forward compatibility isn't going to be a thing for them. But then again, crossplay wasn't going to be a thing for them either.

When it all boils down. Who dominates next gen will come down to the four "P's". Power. Pricing. Presentation. Pro-action. Who's got the power crown, who has the best price, who can market their product best and who is going to launch first?

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm still in wait and see mode. There's too many changes coming and too much we don't know about to call it one way or another. You got Xbox launching 4 consoles, 3 of which I believe will be technically next gen. That's unheard of thus far for a generation launch. We don't know dick about these consoles other than One's high end, one's middle gound and one is cheap and streamy. They got Xcloud in the works and these new studios where we don't know what they are working on or when it will arrive. They also still plan on buying even more studios. This is financial flexing like we've never seen before in the gaming industry. I've made posts before about how Microsoft should stop and chew its food. People thought I was fanboying for Sony. Whatever, I'm not...period. It's just an unbiased opinion and genuine concern.

On the Sony side, you have a ton of exclusives releasing probably toward the end of this generation and probably cross-gen games. You have version 2 of PSVR, which might be right in time to really kick off VR in a more popular direction. You also have the mystery shrouded in their exit from E3. What are they planning? Is it so huge that it warrants the departure? We also know from job listings that Sony is also looking to acquire new studios and they are now working towards building up their stream capabilities. However, is Sony going to give us true backwards compatibility? From what I under, forward compatibility isn't going to be a thing for them. But then again, crossplay wasn't going to be a thing for them either.

When it all boils down. Who dominates next gen will come down to the four "P's". Power. Pricing. Presentation. Pro-action. Who's got the power crown, who has the best price, who can market their product best and who is going to launch first?

What are the 3 next-gen consoles MS is making? I thought they were only making one. And the other 2 were Xbox One Streaming type boxes.

 

[Outrunner]

People are saying streaming is inevitably the future and will dominate next generation, right? I know it’s a combination of features mentioned, but I hear streaming a lot. Did people embrace game streaming this generation? I barely knew anyone who used it honestly. The reason I ask is, how can anyone formulate the opinion that streaming will dominate next generation when it seemingly was kind of a niche feature this generation? Unless technological improvements next generation will make it much more desirable or take it unparalleled heights?

To me it’s essentially like saying VR will be the huge contributing factor for Sony’s dominance next generation. Again, such a small percentage of the user base purchased VR. What’s going to make it HUGE for next generation with such a small adoption rate this generation?

Streaming won't cut it. It's viable in Japan where super high speed connections are a standard, but in Europe and United States it won't cut it yet. Also it's OK for some types of games, like RPG and so on, but anything that requires low input lag is unplayable with Streaming as it is now. I usually get several consoles every generation, if MS comes out with a streaming machine I'll skip it.

Also if the industry goes full out on streaming second hand market and retailers are done for good, I'll keep voting with my wallet on physical for as long as I can.

 

[Jigsaah]

What are the 3 next-gen consoles MS is making? I thought they were only making one. And the other 2 were Xbox One Streaming type boxes.

So you have Anaconda, that's the high end one. Lockhart is the mainline one and then They have a yet unnamed streaming box as far as I've read/heard. for analogous purposes think of Anaconda as the X, Lockhart as the S and the stream box as the new addition to the "Scarlett" family.

Essentially they are trying to cover all gateways of entry to next gen. They hope to have an option for the power, an option to compete with Sony's price and then a cheap option to reach those who are unable to afford a console or who wish to buy this as their secondary console. So if you grab a PS5 at $400 you can get an xbox stream thingy for $100 and not miss out on anything. It's an interesting strategy to be sure.

 

[mckmas8808]

So you have Anaconda, that's the high end one. Lockhart is the mainline one and then They have a yet unnamed streaming box as far as I've read/heard. for analogous purposes think of Anaconda as the X, Lockhart as the S and the stream box as the new addition to the "Scarlett" family.

Essentially they are trying to cover all gateways of entry to next gen. They hope to have an option for the power, an option to compete with Sony's price and then a cheap option to reach those who are unable to afford a console or who wish to buy this as their secondary console. So if you grab a PS5 at $400 you can get an xbox stream thingy for $100 and not miss out on anything. It's an interesting strategy to be sure.

That would be super interesting! No way it works in my opinion for MANY reasons, but I'd love to see MS do this just to test the market and see what it can bear. Never in world history has anybody released 3 variants of a new console at once and they all be targeting different markets at different price points.

 

[Pallas]

What are the 3 next-gen consoles MS is making? I thought they were only making one. And the other 2 were Xbox One Streaming type boxes.

I believe Anaconda and Lockhart are the high and regular projects that are equivalent to the S and X of this gen. They also plan on releasing a discless Xbox one S sometime in 2019, and even further cheaper box that will be for streaming only. The latter I’ve heard it’s another revision of the S and that it also may be something next gen.

 

[Jigsaah]

That would be super interesting! No way it works in my opinion for MANY reasons, but I'd love to see MS do this just to test the market and see what it can bear. Never in world history has anybody released 3 variants of a new console at once and they all be targeting different markets at different price points.

that's pretty much my take on it as well. I wanna see what happens, because if this works, it may become the norm. It's also interesting to think about how this works with forward compatibility. Like you unleash 3 tiers of a system that is supposed to work with the X and the S? How many iterations of a game must you make in order for this to work. Think of how much value they would have to put into the new consoles if they are wanting people to buy into next gen consoles. On the other hand, what if they are putting less emphasis on buying next gen consoles and simply doing this to give the consumer options. This would have some major implications.

First off, if the perceived value of the next gen systems are not so great, they can continue to sell xbox one x at a reduced price and those people who buy that or own that would already have access to next gen games. This could also save them money in initial production and allows them to maintain current user base for years. You know who else does this? Apple. That reduction in production cost may be what makes the X cheaper or allows them to put better components into next gen hardware without raising the price. This could be a simple ebb and flow situation where they can gauge interest. Not saying this is how it will be. Simply speculation, but it's not out of the question.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Streaming won't cut it. It's viable in Japan where super high speed connections are a standard, but in Europe and United States it won't cut it yet. Also it's OK for some types of games, like RPG and so on, but anything that requires low input lag is unplayable with Streaming as it is now. I usually get several consoles every generation, if MS comes out with a streaming machine I'll skip it.

Also if the industry goes full out on streaming second hand market and retailers are done for good, I'll keep voting with my wallet on physical for as long as I can.

I was wondering about the same thing with streaming. Wouldn’t you need relatively fast and capable internet to make the most out of streaming? Also, like you said a fighter or even a twitch shooter could very well have input lag which would ruin the experience. An all digital would also obliterate data caps.

 

[Tarkus98]

hmmm, I wonder if streaming would be a way for Microsoft to finally make some sort of headway into the Japanese market with their super fast internet speeds. Is streaming games popular over there?

 

[Strife In a Teacup]

hmmm, I wonder if streaming would be a way for Microsoft to finally make some sort of headway into the Japanese market with their super fast internet speeds. Is streaming games popular over there?

Xbox Scarlet launch day streaming Lost Odyssey 2, eh?

 

[Tarkus98]

Xbox Scarlet launch day streaming Lost Odyssey 2, eh?

And we have a winner!

 

[Gavon West]

hmmm, I wonder if streaming would be a way for Microsoft to finally make some sort of headway into the Japanese market with their super fast internet speeds. Is streaming games popular over there?

Exactly what I was thinking. This probably plays a part in Microsoft opening an HQ over in Asia as well. I think they plan to try again. Streaming may be an option for them.

 

[Jigsaah]

Streaming won't cut it. It's viable in Japan where super high speed connections are a standard, but in Europe and United States it won't cut it yet. Also it's OK for some types of games, like RPG and so on, but anything that requires low input lag is unplayable with Streaming as it is now. I usually get several consoles every generation, if MS comes out with a streaming machine I'll skip it.

Also if the industry goes full out on streaming second hand market and retailers are done for good, I'll keep voting with my wallet on physical for as long as I can.

I think you're confusing Japan with South Korea. My brother lives in Japan, they don't have super fast internet. I'd argue its probably on par with Comcast in the US, maybe slightly faster on average

 

[Outrunner]

I think you're confusing Japan with South Korea. My brother lives in Japan, they don't have super fast internet. I'd argue its probably on par with Comcast in the US, maybe slightly faster on average

Check this out: https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/internet-speed

 

[tassletine]

Too confusing a message -- Release a cheaper machine that requires a more expensive internet connection to work? erm.

Mircosoft's problem is that they continuously fail to address the market outside of the US. They're blinkered and still seem to think that they can lead the console market in a stridant fashion, without realising the wheel fell off their wagon a while ago.

They've been going in circles for a while now. Doubling down. If this was poker I'd say they are going all-in with a bluff.

 

[Gavon West]

Too confusing a message -- Release a cheaper machine that requires a more expensive internet connection to work? erm.

Mircosoft's problem is that they continuously fail to address the market outside of the US. They're blinkered and still seem to think that they can lead the console market in a stridant fashion, without realising the wheel fell off their wagon a while ago.

They've been going in circles for a while now. Doubling down. If this was poker I'd say they are going a zucchinill-in with a bluff.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

A bluff??? Really???

 

[thelastword]

In this post you seem to favor a hypothetical Microsoft monopoly in the console market. How do your ideals contradict themselves so shamelessly? The "console-wars" are a good thing overall, though we get ridiculous fanatics like you and people like The Last Word spewing their vitriol as gospel with little or substance to speak of. "Console-wars" is just a clever way of describing competition. It's what fuels debates on this and other forums. For you to call a Sony monopoly a stranglehold and Microsoft's monopoly an act of unity is ridiculous and you should really take a moment to think about what you're saying before you say it.

So this post is a shoutout, just because I said you had no response to Sony's experience in networking, streaming etc...…...As I said, they've done shareplay, remoteplay and they have a functioning streaming service, they even did crossplay first and have been leading that charge since PS2...….How is this wanting SONY to have a monopoly?......This is not wanting Sony to have a monopoly, as opposed, this is simply explaining what SONY has done in the industry with networking, and of course it's relative to the topic at hand......

BTW, It was you XBOX fans who doubled down on the author's perspective, citing that "Xcloud" is going to be the best thing to happen to gaming and Sony can't compete "because Azure", just like you guys have hyped up any pitch MS had before, like gamepass, drm 2013, adaptive controller, true 4k console, BC etc.....

So if you want to claim MS will have the best streaming service outside a "functioning" profitable service with tonnes of games on, outside of having features like remoteplay and shareplay, then be my guest, but what you guys are doing is closing your eyes to a functioning service that millions already use on PC/PS4, deny Sony's experience and investment in streaming or in any of the play features, remote, cross, share...... In the hopes that MS 1ups Sony in playability online...….It's a naive way to think, or maybe it's wishful thinking...….Yet, I've seen that type of argument before, when folk said MS did direct X or MS is a software company and they would obliterate Sony in software...…...If that makes me a fanboy, then I'll wear those stripes, though I'd say I'm a realist, what's a realist fanboy btw? a realboy? Maybe I'm that...

 

[mckmas8808]

that's pretty much my take on it as well. I wanna see what happens, because if this works, it may become the norm. It's also interesting to think about how this works with forward compatibility. Like you unleash 3 tiers of a system that is supposed to work with the X and the S? How many iterations of a game must you make in order for this to work. Think of how much value they would have to put into the new consoles if they are wanting people to buy into next gen consoles. On the other hand, what if they are putting less emphasis on buying next gen consoles and simply doing this to give the consumer options. This would have some major implications.

First off, if the perceived value of the next gen systems are not so great, they can continue to sell xbox one x at a reduced price and those people who buy that or own that would already have access to next gen games. This could also save them money in initial production and allows them to maintain current user base for years. You know who else does this? Apple. That reduction in production cost may be what makes the X cheaper or allows them to put better components into next gen hardware without raising the price. This could be a simple ebb and flow situation where they can gauge interest. Not saying this is how it will be. Simply speculation, but it's not out of the question.

The problem with this approach would be that Xbox exclusives would have to be designed from the ground up to run on the Xbox One X. And if the PS5 is a true next-gen console, that wouldn't look too good compared to Sony's 1st party games. MS would basically be taking a half step forward, instead of a full step.

 

[Dabaus]

I asked this in another thread but it still applies here...Has anybody else noticed that when it comes to next gen and Microsoft its only spoken in hyperbolic and fantastical terms? Instead of "more competitive" its "dominate", instead of 60 fps, its 240 fps. Instead of powerful machine its "most powerful machine" despite no one knowing what the ps5 will be like. The hype and rhetoric around this thing is almost ps3 levels of hyperbole, and we still know barely anything about it.

 

[Fake]

Digital Foundry breakdown. Farcry 5 is in fact NATIVE 4K.

Sry to say, But Far Cry 5 is not native 4K. I already have a discussion with John on both twitter and resetera and he admit. John told me is because of the strong AA solution is make difficult to pixel count. I not downplaying the archivement of this game, but calling native 4k its not right.

 

[Gavon West]

Sry to say, But Far Cry 5 is not native 4K. I already have a discussion with John on both twitter and resetera and he admit. John told me is because of the strong AA solution is make difficult to pixel count. I not downplaying the archivement of this game, but calling native 4k its not right.

Dude, this was already acknowledged. Thanks though.

 

[Jigsaah]

The problem with this approach would be that Xbox exclusives would have to be designed from the ground up to run on the Xbox One X. And if the PS5 is a true next-gen console, that wouldn't look too good compared to Sony's 1st party games. MS would basically be taking a half step forward, instead of a full step.

I would think that they would do it like they do it now for Xbox One X vs Xbox One S. They design the best game they can for X and then cut bells and whistles for the S. It would be the same concept for Anaconda, just on a greater scale, with Xbox One X being the lowman on the totem poll.

 

[mckmas8808]

I would think that they would do it like they do it now for Xbox One X vs Xbox One S. They design the best game they can for X and then cut bells and whistles for the S. It would be the same concept for Anaconda, just on a greater scale, with Xbox One X being the lowman on the totem poll.

I don't think they are making Xbox One X games this way at all though. They code for the lowest machine and then add the bells and whistles later to the X1X. Games like Forza Horizon 4 would be even better if it was made with the X1X as the baseline system.

 

[Jigsaah]

So this post is a shoutout, just because I said you had no response to Sony's experience in networking, streaming etc...…...As I said, they've done shareplay, remoteplay and they have a functioning streaming service, they even did crossplay first and have been leading that charge since PS2...….How is this wanting SONY to have a monopoly?......This is not wanting Sony to have a monopoly, as opposed, this is simply explaining what SONY has done in the industry with networking, and of course it's relative to the topic at hand......

BTW, It was you XBOX fans who doubled down on the author's perspective, citing that "Xcloud" is going to be the best thing to happen to gaming and Sony can't compete "because Azure", just like you guys have hyped up any pitch MS had before, like gamepass, drm 2013, adaptive controller, true 4k console, BC etc.....

So if you want to claim MS will have the best streaming service outside a "functioning" profitable service with tonnes of games on, outside of having features like remoteplay and shareplay, then be my guest, but what you guys are doing is closing your eyes to a functioning service that millions already use on PC/PS4, deny Sony's experience and investment in streaming or in any of the play features, remote, cross, share...... In the hopes that MS 1ups Sony in playability online...….It's a naive way to think, or maybe it's wishful thinking...….Yet, I've seen that type of argument before, when folk said MS did direct X or MS is a software company and they would obliterate Sony in software...…...If that makes me a fanboy, then I'll wear those stripes, though I'd say I'm a realist, what's a realist fanboy btw? a realboy? Maybe I'm that...

What? I didn't say you wanted Sony to have a monopoly, though reading parts of your past posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you do want that. I said you spout Sony-leaning vitriol, which you do, 100% percent of the time. That's called being a fanboy. I know and admit where Microsoft's shortcomings are. I also know where Sony's are and am not afraid to take either one to task for bullshit they pull. What I pointed out in my post wasn't necessarily about you...I just happened to mention your name as a point of reference, a comparison if you will. You're so quick to jump the gun that you find it necessary to defend yourself by actually proving my point. You don't have one good thing to say about Microsoft, not one bad thing to say about Sony. All in all, I shouldn't even be responding to this post because you bring nothing to the table in terms of an honest debate. I prefer not to have conversations like this with fanboys, on EITHER side, mainly because their point of views are unreasonable, unintelligent and lacking any type of substance. It's all propaganda and the mark of someone who lacks the brain power to think independently. I don't have time for that shit.

 

[Gavon West]

I don't think they are making Xbox One X games this way at all though. They code for the lowest machine and then add the bells and whistles later to the X1X. Games like Forza Horizon 4 would be even better if it was made with the X1X as the baseline system.

Pretty sure PGG said they went X down for FH4.

 

[Kerotan Frog]

Idk, as far as game machines go, the best way to win is to have exclusive games. I like my Xbox One S for what it is (4k bd player with Gears of War), but the amount of exclusives on the system is so minuscule compared to PS4. It's not even a competition. And it's nice that they have a unified platform with PC, but there's no reason to buy an Xbox if all the best games are also on PC.

They have a LOT of work to do to even sniff 2nd place next gen. They should honestly give up on Japan and the rest of Asia and try to win back US and EU. I hope all their studio acquisitions actually bare some fruit. I really want a true sequel to Banjo-Tooie. They need to look back through the catalog and give us more than Forza, Gears, and Halo. What about Jade Empire, Perfect Dark, Banjo, Kameo, Fable, etc? MS was really lazy this gen trying to just money hat games like Tomb Raider. I hope they can get it together. Until then, I wouldn't bet against Sony continuing their dominance.

 

[Jigsaah]

I don't think they are making Xbox One X games this way at all though. They code for the lowest machine and then add the bells and whistles later to the X1X. Games like Forza Horizon 4 would be even better if it was made with the X1X as the baseline system.

I think in the beginning, when Xbox One X enhanced games were all the craze, they were doing it from the bottom up...mainly because at the time of development, Xbox One X didn't exist. In normal development though, the developers make games the best they can and then make trimmings based on the hardware it's produced for. That's how you get vertical slices like we saw with WatchDogs E3 presentation, but then it turns out to look nothing like that for the full release. You can't have a downgrade without first having something that looks better.

I could see how one might think that due to the Xbox One's higher install base that it makes more sense to make the game for the lower system and then go up from there. I think from a developers point, however, that could actually be more work. I should also mention that this process could differ depending on the game and who's developing it. I'm sure individual companies have their own process and while one might develop from the top down, others may go the other way. It would certainly be an interesting thing to do more research on.

 

[Jigsaah]

Idk, as far as game machines go, the best way to win is to have exclusive games. I like my Xbox One S for what it is (4k bd player with Gears of War), but the amount of exclusives on the system is so minuscule compared to PS4. It's not even a competition. And it's nice that they have a unified platform with PC, but there's no reason to buy an Xbox if all the best games are also on PC.

They have a LOT of work to do to even sniff 2nd place next gen. They should honestly give up on Japan and the rest of Asia and try to win back US and EU. I hope all their studio acquisitions actually bare some fruit. I really want a true sequel to Banjo-Tooie. They need to look back through the catalog and give us more than Forza, Gears, and Halo. What about Jade Empire, Perfect Dark, Banjo, Kameo, Fable, etc? MS was really lazy this gen trying to just money hat games like Tomb Raider. I hope they can get it together. Until then, I wouldn't bet against Sony continuing their dominance.

I think exclusives mattered the most this gen. Next gen, with this whole streaming revolution and both companies trying to get their games on all devices Sony and Microsoft are essentially disembodied from their plastic boxes. It's now about a platform, rather than a console. Microsoft has already started this with Play Anywhere and though Sony has had the ability to stream games to PC, they still hone in on their home console of PS4. It's a strategy that works, obviously. I think they see the writings on the wall though and this is why they are doing some of the things that Microsoft and Google are doing. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if they tried to find some way to do forwards compatibility because it keeps people in their ecosystem, where they have the advantage currently, instead of making a new choice come the dawn of next gen.

For example, I have a PS4. Ps5 comes out and I'm not exactly ready to jump into next gen day 1. I can still buy and play PS5 games, but at lower settings. I can still subscribe to Sony streaming service and get access to all the exclusives. Essentially, I remain a paying Sony customer beyond the end of PS4. Everybody should know, that games is where the money is made, not consoles. So if I'm still buying games and subscribing to services, that's way more valuable then me plopping down $400-500 for a new console and buying less games.

 

[ZywyPL]

Like you unleash 3 tiers of a system that is supposed to work with the X and the S? H

X1S - 900-1080p/30FPS/low<med settings
X1X - 1440-2160p/30FPS/med>high
X2S -1080p/60FPS/med<high
X2X - 2160p/60FPS/high-ultra
X2 streaming - dynamic res/dynamic FPS/med-high

That's how I see it. Making multiplatform games can't get any easier than they already are, it's basically all the same hardware except with different core/memory configs. It takes literally just one person to adjust the games for Pro/X (most likely by just editing the config.ini file), so adding another one, two, or even three consoles shouldn't be a big of an issue.

 

[Jigsaah]

X1S - 900-1080p/30FPS/low<med settings
X1X - 1440-2160p/30FPS/med>high
X2S -1080p/60FPS/med<high
X2X - 2160p/60FPS/high-ultra
X2 streaming - dynamic res/dynamic FPS/med-high

That's how I see it. Making multiplatform games can't get any easier than they already are, it's basically all the same hardware except with different core/memory configs. It takes literally just one person to adjust the games for Pro/X (most likely by just editing the config.ini file), so adding another one, two, or even three consoles shouldn't be a big of an issue.

I think that looks pretty accurate. Definitely gotta better shot then what Michael Pachter's spewing over on his site.

 

[mckmas8808]

X1S - 900-1080p/30FPS/low<med settings
X1X - 1440-2160p/30FPS/med>high
X2S -1080p/60FPS/med<high
X2X - 2160p/60FPS/high-ultra
X2 streaming - dynamic res/dynamic FPS/med-high

That's how I see it. Making multiplatform games can't get any easier than they already are, it's basically all the same hardware except with different core/memory configs. It takes literally just one person to adjust the games for Pro/X (most likely by just editing the config.ini file), so adding another one, two, or even three consoles shouldn't be a big of an issue.

That's literally the most nightmarish situation MS could put the Xbox brand in. No way those many configurations of the Xbox will actually sell overseas. Doing what you listed here ensures it's a North American/UK "only" brand for the next 5 years!

 

[FStubbs]

That's literally the most nightmarish situation MS could put the Xbox brand in. No way those many configurations of the Xbox will actually sell overseas. Doing what you listed here ensures it's a North American/UK "only" brand for the next 5 years!

Let's be honest. We have 3 generations worth of proof that there's almost nothing Microsoft can do to not be a North American/UK/Aus brand only. Non English speakers generally don't want what Microsoft is selling, period.

 

[Artistic]

Here for the long run. More variety is welcomed.

 

[ZywyPL]

That's literally the most nightmarish situation MS could put the Xbox brand in. No way those many configurations of the Xbox will actually sell overseas. Doing what you listed here ensures it's a North American/UK "only" brand for the next 5 years!

They will obviously discontinue the current S and X models sooner or later, but that doesn't mean they cannot receive the newest games with toned down performance. It's like with telecom companies, where aquiring new customer is 5x as demanding as keeping the current one, MS makes billions each year on the current 60+MLN XBL user base, they will obviously want to keep them as long as possible, until they eventually migrate on the newer consoles. Besides, cross-gen games will certainly happen again, so if EA, Ubi, Acti etc. can do it, so why Sony and MS couldn't?

 

[tassletine]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

A bluff??? Really???

It does if you run a business. A bluff is often there to force your competitors hand. Microsoft seems to be doubling down and going all in. They either have nothing or it's actually amazing.
GIven that they tried to drive the market this gen, and clearly have too much hubris, I'd put my money on the former.

Now both the other console makers have now been given notice that Microsoft is going all-in.... what do they do? Stay on target or try and counter the Microsoft publicity train (which is formidable).

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think exclusives mattered the most this gen. Next gen, with this whole streaming revolution and both companies trying to get their games on all devices Sony and Microsoft are essentially disembodied from their plastic boxes. It's now about a platform, rather than a console. Microsoft has already started this with Play Anywhere and though Sony has had the ability to stream games to PC, they still hone in on their home console of PS4. It's a strategy that works, obviously. I think they see the writings on the wall though and this is why they are doing some of the things that Microsoft and Google are doing. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if they tried to find some way to do forwards compatibility because it keeps people in their ecosystem, where they have the advantage currently, instead of making a new choice come the dawn of next gen.

For example, I have a PS4. Ps5 comes out and I'm not exactly ready to jump into next gen day 1. I can still buy and play PS5 games, but at lower settings. I can still subscribe to Sony streaming service and get access to all the exclusives. Essentially, I remain a paying Sony customer beyond the end of PS4. Everybody should know, that games is where the money is made, not consoles. So if I'm still buying games and subscribing to services, that's way more valuable then me plopping down $400-500 for a new console and buying less games.

I have always liked the generational reset, well if it is marked by BC support, as it creates a healthier market and gives opportunity to fresh titles and new publishers to take the front stage (of course if you are a AAAA publisher and are afraid that, unless you invested and were proactive, something could change your quasi monopoly hold on a genre or something then yeah, maybe you would not want that... it is less of a pro consumer move as you would think, much rather have a new console for new titles and BC support...). Cross generation games have already enough presence, I would not want this Cross generation window to become a much wider and sliding one.
I buy consoles because of how they are designed and because their HW baseline stays fixed for years, developers move relatively quickly to optimise for the new HW (and can keep optimising as they understand the HW better and better and they know their investment cost can be spread on many years and many releases), and this will repeat when the new generation start. If the new console supports BC and the old console still receive titles after the new console has been announced or launched there are not big problems with the classic console model (their reason d’être if you will) and it actually thrives. I have seen less Sony PlayStation owners yearn for frequent iterative consoles and the necessary forward compatibility than others and perhaps the way Sony handles generation jumps is something that positively sets them apart (there is not a massive bad software draught as soon as the new console I announced or gets close to being announced).

When a new console is released with a big generational change in HW, I do not want it to be massively underused for years until developers move the minimum requirement upwards (e.g.: Ryzen CPU treated as if it were no stronger than Jaguar for years). As an iPhone user and developers I know what that model entails and I want consoles to stay as far away from it as humanly possible. If you want a PC to upgrade every six months, that is the better solution than to kill what makes consoles actually consoles.

For the HW maker (and as said before the mega big AAAA publishers), yearly iterative HW is a great to keep the Average Selling Price High and drip feed enhancements every year (and each year you have the OS and third party apps taking advantage of the previous year’s HW... hence some of the features of the £1,000 HW you just bought are more marketing than anything as it will take a long time for them to get used and when they do you will notice they work best of the refined iteration of the following year device).
Also, you take a lot longer to get meaningful jumps: manufacturing processes jumps slow down each and every year and get exponentially more expensive... releasing HW more frequently is not a solution and it depends on forward compatibility to even be viable, but it means you as a company are spending a lot more in marketing, manufacturing, and R&D that does not necessarily mean faster HW performance (you are spending more over a five years period because you are doing that dance five times ).

The big push for frequent iterative model is mainly because manufacturers look at Apple and dream keeping people close i the ecosystem (although Xbox LIVE and PSN now fulfill this goal well IMHO, so this is not a s strong of a point as you would think) and mostly to make Apple like profits... thing is that Apple strategy has already kind of run its course as their shipments are not as stellar as they hope (people do not upgrade as quickly as they used to) and are already resorting to increase their prices YoY.

Edit: whoa... sorry for the long wall of text. Should not be too feverish (not feeling too well, but on the mend ).

As a small asideon the original article: you do get to wonder after PS3’s very big comeback and sales that allowed quite an impressive catchup and the investments by Sony in all sorts of areas that the magazines now having such titled articles would have bet on PS4 as the horse to bet on rather than Xbox One for the same reason they cite Xbox Next to be their winner and the data they pick to support it.

 

[Snake29]

X1S - 900-1080p/30FPS/low<med settings
X1X - 1440-2160p/30FPS/med>high
X2S -1080p/60FPS/med<high
X2X - 2160p/60FPS/high-ultra
X2 streaming - dynamic res/dynamic FPS/med-high

That's how I see it. Making multiplatform games can't get any easier than they already are, it's basically all the same hardware except with different core/memory configs. It takes literally just one person to adjust the games for Pro/X (most likely by just editing the config.ini file), so adding another one, two, or even three consoles shouldn't be a big of an issue.

Selling so much SKU's to the mainstream wouldn't get any easier also. This will mean that people easily going for PS then Xbox, because no one would even know what all those differences are.

 

[Jigsaah]

I have always liked the generational reset, well if it is marked by BC support, as it creates a healthier market and gives opportunity to fresh titles and new publishers to take the front stage (of course if you are a AAAA publisher and are afraid that, unless you invested and were proactive, something could change your quasi monopoly hold on a genre or something then yeah, maybe you would not want that... it is less of a pro consumer move as you would think, much rather have a new console for new titles and BC support...). Cross generation games have already enough presence, I would not want this Cross generation window to become a much wider and sliding one.
I buy consoles because of how they are designed and because their HW baseline stays fixed for years, developers move relatively quickly to optimise for the new HW (and can keep optimising as they understand the HW better and better and they know their investment cost can be spread on many years and many releases), and this will repeat when the new generation start. If the new console supports BC and the old console still receive titles after the new console has been announced or launched there are not big problems with the classic console model (their reason d’être if you will) and it actually thrives. I have seen less Sony PlayStation owners yearn for frequent iterative consoles and the necessary forward compatibility than others and perhaps the way Sony handles generation jumps is something that positively sets them apart (there is not a massive bad software draught as soon as the new console I announced or gets close to being announced).

When a new console is released with a big generational change in HW, I do not want it to be massively underused for years until developers move the minimum requirement upwards (e.g.: Ryzen CPU treated as if it were no stronger than Jaguar for years). As an iPhone user and developers I know what that model entails and I want consoles to stay as far away from it as humanly possible. If you want a PC to upgrade every six months, that is the better solution than to kill what makes consoles actually consoles.

For the HW maker (and as said before the mega big AAAA publishers), yearly iterative HW is a great to keep the Average Selling Price High and drip feed enhancements every year (and each year you have the OS and third party apps taking advantage of the previous year’s HW... hence some of the features of the £1,000 HW you just bought are more marketing than anything as it will take a long time for them to get used and when they do you will notice they work best of the refined iteration of the following year device).
Also, you take a lot longer to get meaningful jumps: manufacturing processes jumps slow down each and every year and get exponentially more expensive... releasing HW more frequently is not a solution and it depends on forward compatibility to even be viable, but it means you as a company are spending a lot more in marketing, manufacturing, and R&D that does not necessarily mean faster HW performance (you are spending more over a five years period because you are doing that dance five times ).

The big push for frequent iterative model is mainly because manufacturers look at Apple and dream keeping people close i the ecosystem (although Xbox LIVE and PSN now fulfill this goal well IMHO, so this is not a s strong of a point as you would think) and mostly to make Apple like profits... thing is that Apple strategy has already kind of run its course as their shipments are not as stellar as they hope (people do not upgrade as quickly as they used to) and are already resorting to increase their prices YoY.

Edit: whoa... sorry for the long wall of text. Should not be too feverish (not feeling too well, but on the mend ).

As a small asideon the original article: you do get to wonder after PS3’s very big comeback and sales that allowed quite an impressive catchup and the investments by Sony in all sorts of areas that the magazines now having such titled articles would have bet on PS4 as the horse to bet on rather than Xbox One for the same reason they cite Xbox Next to be their winner and the data they pick to support it.

Oh I'm with you on some points for sure. I love the dawn of the new gen. Getting a new shiny box with maybe a game or two that's poised to sell the system is awesome. I also like options though and unfortunately I'm not well off enough to buy 2 systems at once. So to be able to buy one console and subscribe to the other to maybe play on my current PC would be a godsend. I fear the lines at this point are going to be irreversibly blurred once next gen hits. So you take the good with the bad, I suppose.

As for your footnote, I can see this as being part of the reason why. Many would argue Microsoft didn't make a comeback based on the console sales figures, of which we still don't know the true number for Xbox One. Microsoft has officially changed the narrative though, much to the chagrin of PS4 fans. It's all about active users and subscriptions to X Y Z service. Next gen is going to begin this way. I think the reason articles are looking at Microsoft now in a more positive light are 2 fold. First, the dichotomy of Microsoft's flip from DRM herald to arguably the most consumer friendly company...well...period is one piece of the puzzle and Sony's non-consumer friendliness on some of those same fronts. The Crossplay debacle was an example of this. The other is simply because the notion is controversial and sparks debates like what we're having right now. Are the points they make valid? That's left to be seen honestly. I mean Microsoft is trying a lot of new things come next gen. Releasing 3 different SKU's at launch, Gamepass, a plethora of new studios cultivated by world class talent, essentially forming a dream team of developers and Xcloud. I mean, the list goes on but you get the point. Microsoft isn't playing around come next gen, that's a fact no one can really deny. Question is, is it enough? We still don't know much about what Sony's doing. So how could we know if it's enough or not? We've learned recently that Sony's looking to acquire more studios, that they are also looking to have the capability to stream to all devices. They've already mimicked Gamepass by allowing PSNow users to download the games instead of just streaming. Essentially they are matching tit for tat with what Microsoft is doing. Other than these things, Sony is holding their cards very close to their chest. There are some lingering questions though:

1. Who will have the power crown?
2. Who has the best value/price?
3. Who has the best console selling games?
4. Who's going to release first?
5. Backwards Compatibility?
It's exciting! I'm keeping my eyes open and I want to see this through a clear lens. I plan on buying both systems, but not both at the same time. We'll see which one I get first.

 

[Pallas]

Selling so much SKU's to the mainstream wouldn't get any easier also. This will mean that people easily going for PS then Xbox, because no one would even know what all those differences are.

Except two of those five are current gen and will be obsoleted and be discontinued eventually and be replaced by S2 and X2 completely. It’s really not that confusing.

 

[Jigsaah]

Selling so much SKU's to the mainstream wouldn't get any easier also. This will mean that people easily going for PS then Xbox, because no one would even know what all those differences are.

I imagine if I'm at Best Buy, post launch as a casual gamer and coming to find a console I'm going to first learn there's new console. I'm probably going to ask about the differences. The laymen know what 4k is. They know it's better than 1080p. Why do you think everybody is buying 4k TV's nowadays, other than the fact that 1080p is being phased out in the television market. As a casual gamer I'd consider what choice I made last gen and how satisfied or unsatisfied I was with that experience. However, the main thing I'm looking for, is the best deal. Don't care about exclusives, don't care about gamepass or psnow. I would care more about where my friends play on more than any of those other bells and whistles. In that respect, I could see PS4 having an advantage there simply because there's more of owners of PS4 now. I think the other huge factor is going to be word of mouth. Who's telling who to buy what, basically.

 

[Pallas]

Apparently there’s a rumor that Sony May be releasing different SKU’s as well but it’s from Patcher though ... but I think he’s just speculating almost. Plus I’m not even sure if I’d trust something from Esquire. I don’t know much about that site.

https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-n...uge-surprise-according-to-an-industry-expert/

 

[klosos]

they cant release more then two SKU's at a time , that would be ridiculous to us the enthusiasts no problem but to the main stream nope it would be to convoluted. I can see them releasing two Day one

1. a streaming box (100-150£/$ price point )
2. the full fat next Xbox (400-500 £/$ )

However maybe like this generation 3-4 years down the line bring out an enhanced version of each maybe but not much else IMO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oh I'm with you on some points for sure. I love the dawn of the new gen. Getting a new shiny box with maybe a game or two that's poised to sell the system is awesome. I also like options though and unfortunately I'm not well off enough to buy 2 systems at once. So to be able to buy one console and subscribe to the other to maybe play on my current PC would be a godsend. I fear the lines at this point are going to be irreversibly blurred once next gen hits. So you take the good with the bad, I suppose.

As for your footnote, I can see this as being part of the reason why. Many would argue Microsoft didn't make a comeback based on the console sales figures, of which we still don't know the true number for Xbox One. Microsoft has officially changed the narrative though, much to the chagrin of PS4 fans. It's all about active users and subscriptions to X Y Z service. Next gen is going to begin this way. I think the reason articles are looking at Microsoft now in a more positive light are 2 fold. First, the dichotomy of Microsoft's flip from DRM herald to arguably the most consumer friendly company...well...period is one piece of the puzzle. The other is simply because the notion is controversial and sparks debates like what we're having right now. Are the points they make valid? That's left to be seen honestly. I mean Microsoft is trying a lot of new things come next gen. Releasing 3 different SKU's at launch, Gamepass, a plethora of new studios cultivated by world class talent, essentially forming a dream team of developers and Xcloud. I mean, the list goes on but you get the point. Microsoft isn't playing around come next gen, that's a fact no one can really deny. Question is, is it enough? We still don't know much about what Sony's doing. So how could we know if it's enough or not? We've learned recently that Sony's looking to acquire more studios, that they are also looking to have the capability to stream to all devices. They've already mimicked Gamepass by allowing PSNow users to download the games instead of just streaming. Essentially they are matching tit for tat with what Microsoft is doing. Other than these things, Sony is holding their cards very close to their chest. There are some lingering questions though:

1. Who will have the power crown?
2. Who has the best value/price?
3. Who has the best console selling games?
4. Who's going to release first?
5. Backwards Compatibility?
It's exciting! I'm keeping my eyes open and I want to see this through a clear lens. I plan on buying both systems, but not both at the same time. We'll see which one I get first.

Once they recognised from preorders and then actual sales how much behind they were and someone internally ran realistic projections of how it would turn out if they did not course correct they reacted and strongly (while I prefer a company starting out well instead of being forced by the market to behave well, hence why I respect MS for the introduction of the 360, albeit how they rushed it to market had some HW repercussions, and why I give props to Sony this gen for how they started and setup their generation ahead of time in the right way).

This is why I like how both MS and Sony rushes to save their generation and respect them for doing that, but I need to give props to their competitors who started the generation better and did not need to make as many amends.

Before this users were paying to browse the web or to use Netflix or MMO’s / F2P (all requires Xbox LIVE Gold, now only MMO’s and F2P games do), crossplay became an issue only (if you want to see it this way) when it could be a thorn in Sony’s side (it was ridiculous to see companies like Bethesda kind of imply Fallout 76 was going to be crossplay unless Sony changed their tune for this to completely change once Sony announced their change of intentions and plans).

The narrative around MS changed for sure (and Xbox owners should be happy that the company did not pull a Nintendo with the Wii U and abandoned the console albeit introducing the Xbox One X to change the narrative does not do much for the people who bought an OG Xbox One or an Xbox One S which was their first meaningful HW fix/speed bump but they did improve services and introduced enhanced BC support) , but part of it is the usual underdog perspective where the market leader that got there doing the work early and needed not to catchup to their competition is seeing in a much less favourable light than the competitor who is kind of beaten by the market into submission/changing their policies. Some of the media that is seeing Xbox Next as dominating next generation was saying the same before despite Sony being the most costumer friendly of the two (supporting cross play, supporting free online multiplayer and video streaming, etc... BC started as super top notch being compatible with PS1 and PS2 titles, but customers determined that they preferred them to focus on new games and lowering the cost of the console and they voted with their wallet... consumers seemingly gave up on BC and did so quite happily) and outselling their competition on a month by month basis for years which allowed to catch up... not a surprise it mostly happens in U.K. and U.S. media which are the areas where Xbox mindshare and popularity is the strongest. In some cases it kind of smells like they wish Sony would just go away .

I also think that there is this perception that they only mimic others and never innovate (see comment about GamePass and game downloads on PSNow... btw, PSNow allows you to play games in MP without paying for PS+ and has done so for a good long while while GamePass is on top of Xbox LIVE gold) and I do not think it is completely fair.

 

[mckmas8808]

As for your footnote, I can see this as being part of the reason why. Many would argue Microsoft didn't make a comeback based on the console sales figures, of which we still don't know the true number for Xbox One. Microsoft has officially changed the narrative though, much to the chagrin of PS4 fans. It's all about active users and subscriptions to X Y Z service. Next gen is going to begin this way. I think the reason articles are looking at Microsoft now in a more positive light are 2 fold.

It's exciting! I'm keeping my eyes open and I want to see this through a clear lens. I plan on buying both systems, but not both at the same time. We'll see which one I get first.

The bolded is just so wrong that I almost spit up my water lol. MS did not change that narrative. Active users and subscriptions matter, yes. But acting as if console sales numbers don't matter, is Microsoft's PR excuse to not release numbers. They are "trying" to change the narrative, but smart people will understand how dumb that really is and not listen to that noise.

More hardware sales, lead to more active users and subscriptions. It goes hand and hand. No reason to act like 50 million console unit sales per console generation is a great thing.

 

[Gavon West]

There's a HUGE gap in the reality of the truth about how gaming works from the inside and forumers - it's staggering. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Can't believe this thread is still going. Says alot about the power of strong, positive journalism.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

There's a HUGE gap in the reality of the truth about how gaming works from the inside and forumers - it's staggering. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Can't believe this thread is still going. Says alot about the power of strong, positive journalism.

Nah, you can't appeal to an amorphous "gap in the reality of the truth" and then imply that those in the thread who disagree with you are just "forumers" who don't know how things really work.

This is coming from the person who wasn't informed enough to check if PSN's Remote Play could be used outside range of the console.

We know you are a fan of the Xbox. That's fine. But don't warp the facts or tolerate bad "strong, positive" journalism.

 

[Gavon West]

Nah, you can't appeal to an amorphous "gap in the reality of the truth" and then imply that those in the thread who disagree with you are just "forumers" who don't know how things really work.

This is coming from the person who wasn't informed enough to check if PSN's Remote Play could be used outside range of the console.

We know you are a fan of the Xbox. That's fine. But don't warp the facts or tolerate bad "strong, positive" journalism.

Got nothing to do with ME champ. Not sure where that came from but...

...then when you try to tell people that gamers are off about how gaming works from the inside, they tell you, you're wrong. Lol. Laughable.

I can GUARANTEE developers and those who work on the inside of the gaming industry laugh at about 99% of the posts they read on forums - simply because arm chair devs, marketing PR's and Cloud techs have no clue what the hell they're talking about. I dont work in the gaming bizz but I'm "pretty close" - my industry is more like a first cousin. And I can tell you, most of you are just......off.

But have it. Great reading this stuff none-the-less.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There's a HUGE gap in the reality of the truth about how gaming works from the inside and forumers - it's staggering. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Can't believe this thread is still going. Says alot about the power of strong, positive journalism.

Some of that is not yet distinguishable from wishful thinking yet, the same that was “predicting” PS4’s demise months and months before reveal and that then spent time dissing games for not giving MS a chance and that they do not even realise how much they miss out!

But still, a topic whose title states <outlet A> says Xbox will dominate next generation has been in the front page for quite a lot of days now. There was something worthily to discuss, but if people had only wanted to do damage control no PS4 fan should have posted and argued with points I think they should have been discussed and the topic would have died out a lot sooner.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Got nothing to do with ME champ. Not sure where that came from but...

...then when you try to tell people that gamers are off about how gaming works from the inside, they tell you, you're wrong. Lol. Laughable.

I can GUARANTEE developers and those who work on the inside of the gaming industry laugh at about 99% of the posts they read on forums - simply because arm chair devs, marketing PR's and Cloud techs have no clue what the hell they're talking about. I dont work in the gaming bizz but I'm "pretty close" - my industry is more like a first cousin. And I can tell you, most of you are just......off.

But have it. Great reading this stuff none-the-less.

This is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy.

It's not even an appeal to actual authority (please link me to the laughter. Please show me the articles written by these "insiders") but an imagined authority that laughs -- on your behalf -- at "forumers" who disagree with you.

I also work in a "first cousin" industry and I know how The Cloud works. I am also a customer of PSN who has used their services. I am qualified by any rational standard to weigh in.

Are you?

The fact that you have to resort to feigned "LOL okay bro whatever you say" without offering details is an inditement against your own premise. If you have the facts, present them. If you can show how it works and it contradicts what is being said, say it.

But trying to play it off as "ohhhh, you forum goers don't really know what's going on. But I won't get into it. Most of you are just.... off" is bullcrap.

Either put up the facts or go sit in the corner. No one should be bullied out of the conversation just because they don't agree with you.