I think RLM is at its best when they do absurdist non-sequitur comedy, like in most of their Half in the Bag skits. As satirists they usually come off as vindictive rather than insightful.
That's the Disney house style.
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Episode VIII is "The Last Jedi"
- Thread starter TheBioLover
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I think RLM is at its best when they do absurdist non-sequitur comedy, like in most of their Half in the Bag skits. As satirists they usually come off as vindictive rather than insightful.
That's the Disney house style.
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Bobby Roberts
Banned
yeah, the majority of the funniest bits in the prequel reviews were non-sequiturs and ridiculous cut-aways. That stuff has held up the best.
Theodoricos
Member
I apologize if this has already been answered, but we do have confirmation that there's going to be a crawl for episode 8, right?
I thought I was going to be okay with Rogue One not having one but it definitely felt like something was missing.
I thought I was going to be okay with Rogue One not having one but it definitely felt like something was missing.
Why on earth wouldn't there be a crawl?
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
It will of course have a crawl but I think there might be some doubts because the movie will start right off where TFA did, which hasn't been done before, making the crawl be a tad different than it usually is.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
A lot of people will have not seen TFA since it came out 2 years ago, so having the opening crawl just be a recap could still be useful.
Yup, that's most likely what they will do.
It's probably the only thing they could do.
That is correct.
Is the red font logo official? I like it.
It's a nice subtle hint that TLJ will be a darker movie.
eh, be careful with this opinion when the movie's OT is made in December. People were called sexist for wanting to see Rey go to the Dark Side in the TFA's thread(s).
It's a nice subtle hint that TLJ will be a darker movie.
eh, be careful with this opinion when the movie's OT is made in December. People were called sexist for wanting to see Rey go to the Dark Side in the TFA's thread(s).
Into the Light
Banned
There is too much good in Rey, she gives without any thought or sense of reward. I think things will stand as they are. Kylo bad, Rey good.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
There's certainly an element of it there. Feels like people wanting to strip her of her main protagonist status and give it to Kylo/Finn/Luke/someone with a penis.
I don't remember anyone getting called sexist but The Librarian would always get real heated when people brought it up.
Let's not get too crazy. Other movies deserve a chance at the Oscar.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I mean, it's a dumb idea, and I remember more than a few sexists shitting up those post-release threads with dumb ideas, but I don't remember any exchanges in which someone was like "Rey should go bad" and someone immediately fired back "YOU'RE A SEXIST."
Lack of imagination != sexism.
Now, if someone was pushing "Rey should turn sith because I don't think a woman should be the main character in a Star Wars film," then they'd probably get called out pretty quick, I'd imagine.
Lack of imagination != sexism.
Now, if someone was pushing "Rey should turn sith because I don't think a woman should be the main character in a Star Wars film," then they'd probably get called out pretty quick, I'd imagine.
To clarify, I'm not a believer in the idea that Disney exerts massive creative control over their child studios. In fact I think a big part of why Disney's done so well in recent years is that they've taken a hands-off approach. But the other part of why Disney's done so well is that all their studios are following the "How to Make a Popular Movie" handbook. And I'm not complaining because now I rarely find myself coming out of a theater unhappy. But at the same time none of these movies are pushing anything.
Glad you agree.
Never noticed that. People were just discussing possible character arcs for Rey, and being tempted by the Dark Side is something the main protagonist goes through in SW films.
Essentially, yes.
what? Why? Can you explain me?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm sure there have been Tom Hanks jokes made, right? Right? C'mon don't let me down.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Tempted != turning.
Nobody's arguing that she shouldn't/couldn't be tempted. Luke was tempted.
But that's not at all the same as saying the good girl should be the bad girl so that the bad guy gets to be the real good guy.
Course you didn't.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Weak.
Adam_Vania
Banned
first i want to hear why Jar Jar stepping in shit isn't number one
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Luke was a bit more than tempted - he straight up tried to cut the Emperor's face in half, and would have if Vader didn't block his attack, and that's before he tried to ragemurder Vader for mentioning Leia. He attempted something which would have sent him down a path to the dark side, and that made his character more interesting.
As for Rey, maybe people are saying the good girl should be the bad girl because it's more interesting than just having Luke's story again? Maybe her gender is secondary to her character? Because if you start setting rules for what can or can't happen to her character because of her gender, well that's kind of shitty.
And nobody's saying she's going dark side and staying there, or that she needs to be stripped of protagonist status. Her discovery of her powers and the progress she's making is happening alarmingly quickly, and with that comes certain dangers. How she deals with them will add to her character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, that was tempted.
You gonna argue that dude was full on darkside there? That he actually succumbed?
Because I dont' think that's a good reading of what happened at the end of Jedi. He was tempted (like Ben told him he would be) and pulled back (he's hiding in the shadows for a reason) twice during that fight.
but you just argued that Luke went bad.
So I mean, which is it? Did he not succumb to the temptation? In which case, why should Rey? That's Luke's story. And if he didn't - why should she?
I'm not setting rules based on her gender at all. I'm wondering why her story arc only becomes interesting to people if she's not a good guy anymore. And why the suggestion that Kylo be the true hero who either saves Rey, (or kills her because she's just too bad), is the best option there.
Wouldn't that be Anakin's story?
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
I will say that Rey going bad could be an interesting turn of events (even if all you're really doing is jumping from Luke's story to Anakin's), but if they were to go down that route I'd hope they'd keep the focus squarely on Rey, and the fact that people couple their desire for Rey to go bad with wanting to shift another character (usually Kylo) into the main character slot in place of Rey just gives me a feeling that there's more to this than just people wanting something different in Star Wars, even if it's only on a subconscious level.
I think people want it because the pull between light and dark is central to the mythology and they want another "I am your father" level twist. Having the mains change roles would do that, but really it's goes around the clever loop and into goofy territory.
I'm on the "Snoke is a fraud" bandwagon myself. I want him to be nothing but smoke and mirrors and have Kylo goes crazy on him when he figures it out.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, I get you, but that twist is never coming again, though. They're never going to get near it, and I think they're too smart to chase after it. The fact people even want it sorta diminishes their ability to land it.
That twist was a one-time deal. Star Wars is, that single pulled-it-outta-his-ass SURPRISE aside, a mostly straightforward fairytale of a story.
I think a good half of all storytelling disappointments with Star Wars can be traced back to fandom's thirsting for a thing that only ever worked the once, and consistently being disappointed that a) they won't try it again or b) when they do try something sorta like it, it doesn't work.
That twist is the double edged sword fandom keeps cutting its greedy little fingers on.
I'm with you on this, definitely.
Every SW thread ended up a cesspit after a few pages
Then every SW thread became "TFA was actually bad"
Then I stopped clicking on sw threads
But i have a good feeling about htis one!
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Nope, I argued what I actually typed - that Luke attempted something which would've sent him firmly down the path of the dark side, and only Vader's intervention stopped him. If you load a gun, aim it at someone who is unarmed and not a threat to you and you pull the trigger, but miss, you weren't tempted to kill them, you went past temptation and attempted murder.
Because she's a different character with a different life, different thoughts and motivations and feelings from Luke? With a history we know nothing about? Again you seem to think her having a different journey to Luke somehow makes her weaker than him. Nobody is asserting that.
First of all, nobody's saying it only becomes interesting if she's not a good guy, just that conflict is inherently interesting in a character and as an incredibly powerful force user who's powers are progressing rapidly she's in a prime position to have to deal with that inner conflict and potentially falter. It could be a story we haven't seen - Luke was on the edge but came back, Anakin went full dark side, maybe Rey goes somewhat dark side but comes back from it?
Secondly, nobody's saying Kylo's going to be the 'true hero', but if you think him saying the light side is calling to him through TFA is just going to be forgotten in the next two films then that's pretty shortsighted. He's already conflicted and the future of that character clearly isn't going to be 'nah he's just a bad guy'. Again, this is interesting.
Just to put it out there, do you know what I'd like to see? Kylo and Rey both swap, but then bring each other to some sort of middle ground. No Jedi, no Sith. No moustache twirling villainy, no weird emotionless cult, but some new movement which strikes a positive balance between two ideologies.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If you try to kill a sith, does that automatically make you a sith?
really?
Luke was tempted by the darkside, he did not go over. You said "it was a bit more than temptation" and it wasn't. It was temptation. He held out, ultimately.
I don't think that at all dude. I don't even know how you're getting that. I'm disagreeing with the notion that the best/easiest/most worthwhile way to make her interesting (I also disagree that she needs to be made interesting, she's already interesting) is to make her a bad guy. Nothing about that says she needs to be Luke, or repeat Luke's story. You were, in your earlier post, simultaneously arguing for and against her story mirroring Luke's.
I don't want that at all.
How is it shortsighted to think he won't turn back? It's just plain old sighted. Because I saw him reject the light when he killed his father. That was his chance. He ran it through.
Kylo & Rey don't need to switch sides to be "interesting." I think there's multiple ways they can both pursue their own stories without having their basic natures inverted at any point.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
"Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
Luke takes his weapon and tries to strike him down, an unarmed man sitting down whose death would (and indeed does) make absolutely no difference to the battles raging outside. The Emperor smiles and laughs. He pulled the trigger, only Vader's interception prevented him falling right there. That is more than temptation, which is what I said.
Kylo's a character who's been manipulated by Snoke (according to Leia) into trying to harness the dark side's power. Unlike any other force user we've seen in the films so far, he's not a Jedi who's been tempted by the dark side, but someone trying to harness the power of the dark side (for reasons we've yet to discover) while the light side tries to bring him back. He's actually drawn to the light rather than tempted by the dark which isn't something you can say of any of the other characters. He thought killing Han would end that conflict inside of him and set him first on one side but it didn't (as per the novelisation).
There is no way you have a character with that unique premise and then have their role be 'nah he's just a bad guy now' for the next two films unless the next two episodes were written by morons. In any half competent story if a major character is manipulated, they're going to find out they've been manipulated. If they say they're tempted to do a thing in the first act, odds are they're going to do just that in one of the following acts.
I'm really surprised so many want Rey and Ren to flip flop. That would completely negate and contradict all the character development accomplished in TFA. Ren's chance was to walk away with his father. He killed him instead. As the direct inverse of Vader's decision and action at the end of the original trilogy, I think bringing him back to the light actively works against his development in TFA. Rey is clearly the hero in the story and I've yet to see a valid reason for her to turn. Or Luke.
shira
Member
So they get married and made force babies for Ep 10+
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
And he felt like shit about it. He expected to cum in his pants, but nope.
Not that I think they're going there with him.
I think people are mistaking this moment for OMG REDEMPTION instead of "holy shit I just killed my father for nothing". This is a decision that ultimately sends his path into the dark. Doesn't mean he's actually there yet. Just wait until he "trains" with Snoke. Which still probably consist of him being tortured/punished for failing so badly.
Like I said, I believe Han's death scene was far too deliberate to leave wiggle room for Ren.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I don't want to see Kylo being redeemed because clearly he shouldn't be. However, in the event that they do end up trying to redeem him, I think an interesting way to treat the story would be to send Rey to the dark side in his place. The average audience member would probably not expect such a development. I think Star Wars needs a good fall from grace after you know what (still getting through Clone Wars).
Again though.. We have zero reason for Rey to turn, other than "wow cool", like Bobby said earlier.
TFA was built around Rey. I'd bet a thousand bucks on her being the face of the franchise and hero of the trilogy.
Even from the shitty PT, a viewer can deduce that there's foreshadowing in regard to Anakin falling to the dark side (without knowledge of the OT). Luke and Rey have none of those exhibited traits, in ANH and TFA, respectively.
There's not even the slightest suggestion. The audience immediately recognizes the character on their hero's journey. To stray from that establishment is just bad writing.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Everything?
Her life is basically what people would look at in hindsight after an OD death or major felony conviction and say "They never had a chance.".
Uh can you be more specific? We know almost nothing about her past..
Again.. We know nothing about her life. Nothing suggests she would turn to the dark side.
Just because she led a life of solidarity doesn't make her more or less likely to fall to the dark side.
Ben was born into the "good" side and fell anyway.
There are no examples from her past or characteristics to support her future fall.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
You mean solitude? An elementary-school-age kid? Are you kidding me? After watching her parents abandon her? wat
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Just because you can't imagine any other way forward than the most basic one doesn't mean the people actually writing the movie are "morons."
For example:
Let's say you're a real wanna be, a real tryhard, someone who has a whole lot tied up in pretending so hard to be something you're not that you not only become it, you shoot straight past it, to become the most obnoxious, disgusting, craven, overcompensating version of the thing you were aiming at. And that's the point at which you find out the person who pointed you there was making a fool out of you.
Do you really think the most interesting decision in that hypothetical is for this real piece of shit to become a good guy?
I can see that being a decision. An easy one, too.
Or he could become the worst possible version of himself. He could drill down even deeper. He doesn't have to be "just" a villain at all. He can be something his sentimental old granddad never was:
a winner.
You're telling me this isn't as viable as "well, the girl goes bad and he comes back from the dark and learns his lesson and they save each other?" I'm not saying you have to prefer it. But it's not a viable option?
Because you know that guy. Or know of him. I guarantee you do. And as repugnant and stupid and annoying and horrible as that dude is, he's also interesting. He's fucking fascinating.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Just being a force user is enough for them to have to deal with the temptation of the dark side at some point in their lives, and it's been shown with both Luke as a young man and Anakin as a child that the Jedi think they need to be trained from a very young age to stand a better chance of avoiding temptation. Rey's a young woman who either has no training or who is trained but has no memory of it, either way that's a danger. So you have a gifted, powerful force user who's growing stronger by the minute with absolutely no knowledge of how to deal with that, who's been surving on her own after her parents or whoever abandoned her, so we have a healthy source of insecurity and uncertainty for the dark side to get its hooks in, all set up in the first film. I'm not saying this is how it's going to go because honestly, who knows? Just my thoughts.
Then there's the two things which really stood out to me during Rey and Kylo's fight. First, there's the moment where their lightsabers are locked. It could just be a neat visual effect but I'm going to give the people behind the camera the benefit of the doubt. Both characters are face to face and their lightsabers are illuminating them in the dark. We see both characters' faces flickering between red and blue, neither one sticking to one colour.
Second, the moment Rey beats Kylo. Our hero is pacing, almost snarling, while our villain is injured, afraid and in total shock on the floor. Take away the obvious white = good, black = bad costumes and take that image on its own and you'd probably think the bad guy had just won.
Edit; Bobby, I stand corrected, that would be excellent to see. I just don't think that's what they're going for with his character. He tried going maximum asshole and it didn't really pay off. I absolutely would pay to see that story though. You speak wisdom.
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