Well the UK couldn't help the steel industry over EU state aid laws as it is seen as anti competitive something which Germany has done. Or France has with its creative industries.
Also you think Canada is conforming to the EU rules?
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EU- Referendum for the UK..... Neogaf UK are you in or out?
- Thread starter Tak3n
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Well the UK couldn't help the steel industry over EU state aid laws as it is seen as anti competitive something which Germany has done. Or France has with its creative industries.
Also you think Canada is conforming to the EU rules?
Honey Bunny
Member
Out!
You realise deals with nations outside the continent are different? We'd be in turkeys position.
uncleniccius
Member
I'm super pro in. I saw a poll by Yougov which showed the better educated you are the more likely you are to vote in, which is completely unsurprising to me.
CalamityPixel
Member
I'm undecided as I need more information on both sides.
As someone who lives in Yorkshire, I haven't met a single person who wants to stay in the EU. As you expect, the running theme is that people want immigrants off benefits and out of the country. It worries me people aren't looking at the wider scope of things; worries me more when I see people using Britain First as their political guide.
Speaking of immigration I was on the bus home the other day and a idiot from the EDL was blasting away on his phone about how he just wants what's best for England. He wants Britain out of the EU so we can go back to being "proper white british". Then he talked about how he was going to smash someones head in. I'm not really surprised by this shit anymore, I keep seeing more of it every week. Then again I live near Rotherham.
As someone who lives in Yorkshire, I haven't met a single person who wants to stay in the EU. As you expect, the running theme is that people want immigrants off benefits and out of the country. It worries me people aren't looking at the wider scope of things; worries me more when I see people using Britain First as their political guide.
Speaking of immigration I was on the bus home the other day and a idiot from the EDL was blasting away on his phone about how he just wants what's best for England. He wants Britain out of the EU so we can go back to being "proper white british". Then he talked about how he was going to smash someones head in. I'm not really surprised by this shit anymore, I keep seeing more of it every week. Then again I live near Rotherham.
The Westminster government made NO FUCKING EFFORT to try and use existing EU mechanisms to protect the steel industry. Instead Osbourne's hard-on for the fucking Chinese government made that his desired outcome.
I do find it interesting how many people forget that the immigration argument works both ways. It's frankly shocking how many people will moan about people coming into this country and taking jobs, and then happily declare that they're looking forward to retiring somewhere on the continent.
Someone mentioned the old ruining it for the young earlier in the thread. To be honest, It's just as likely they will ruin it for themselves.
Someone mentioned the old ruining it for the young earlier in the thread. To be honest, It's just as likely they will ruin it for themselves.
I live in Teesside/North Yorkshire and I'm voting In.
What did people expect the government to do with the whole SSI closure thing? I live in Redcar and all I heard in town at the time was how it was all David Cameron's fault and the government should be doing something. But what could they do? The price of steel was way too low. I had a friend who worked at SSI who told me that for SSI to be profitable the price of steel needed to go above $300/ton. Right now it's barely more than half that.
Was the government supposed to just pump money into a hugely loss making industry purely to keep people in work?
toythatkills
Member
The worst "Britain is terrible today" comments on the Daily Mail's website are always posted from Spain by people who probably haven't been here in five years. Unironically.
Class divide maybe?
The poor are being let down, of course they are mad. Rightfully so.
checkeredknight
Member
In, without question.
toythatkills
Member
Are they being let down by the EU?
CharmingCharlie
Member
As an Englishman I really wish the Scots had voted for independence because I am kinda getting a bit sick of it being trotted out every other Sunday by Sturgeon and holding it over the head of England as some kind of threat.
There were several opinions offered, but no definitive article. Barrosso's opinion was only that, not legally binding. IIRC the SNP were going to try and argue Article 48 would have been a quick route to membership even if they were dropped but it wasn't tested.
Maybe Scotland could have been considered as a unique case with accelerated approval, maybe the rest of the UK could have been kicked out. It would have been an unprecedented act.
CalamityPixel
Member
I was at Teeside Uni last week for an event called Animex. I talked to someone there about the EU decision and they were in; I should have said I meant South Yorkshire :/
IDS has blood on his hands.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Unsurprising because more educated people are less likely to be negatively affected by the free movement of labour and the addition to the EU of many poorer countries, resulting in the undercutting of working class jobs? Right?
You're not just calling everyone who wants to vote leave dumbos, right?
Article 48 still would've required Spanish approval.
Got my Bachelors and Masters at Teesside, loved that Uni.
Tories routinely imply that for labour voters.
CalamityPixel
Member
The campus is really nice with a lot of nice tutors. I go to Sheffield Hallam; Teeside looks miles better with the facilities and location.
CyclopsRock
Member
Tbf the more educated you are the more benefit you get from the EU too.
uncleniccius
Member
Yeah, class was identified as the other major factor in dictating how people feel.
No, definitely not. I think leaving the EU will be extremely negative for the UK as a whole, but I do see that our membership isn't positive for everybody. I also definitely don't mean to call them dumb, u understand even if I do disagree.
This is also true. Does anybody know if something would change with Erasmus if it happens?
uncleniccius
Member
I'm also English and see the threats as a joke for the most part, but imo this would be a big enough change for it to be fair. If they vote strongly against leaving and we leave they have every right to another referendum in my view.
At the very least there will need to be a round of negotiation for devolved powers. Do the Bill of Rights Gove want cover all UK for example or just England.
Why should the government pump millions into an industry that is pretty much wholey own by private foreign companies?
Justice is largely devolved and you think we'd settle for a bill of fuck you from tories?
Supreme Court would have the final say.
Assuming everything stayed the same and we had a bill of no rights imposed on us.
Triggerhappytel
Member
This is my stance on it right now. I'm IN, but have to admit I haven't been following the whole thing too closely. Haven't actually heard reasonable arguments for why we should leave the EU.
it would be a shame if Boris backed the 'out' campaign purely for selfish political reasoning - wanting to be PM. He should have the courage of his convictions. People don't vote for him because he panders, they vote for him precisely because he doesn't.
He should stick to his guns on an 'In but on the basis of a common market not political union' stance.
He should stick to his guns on an 'In but on the basis of a common market not political union' stance.
Out of interest, where? I am in Barnsley!
As for voting I am leaning towards out but I dunno. Going to do some research and weigh up the pro/con's of each.
To be fair the common market ain't an option. He always flip flops and panders. He acts dumb to hide his hard right wing positions.
Well because there were thousands of English, Welsh, etc. workers whose families depended on that industry?
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
You really do take the English for a bunch of right wing zealots, just waiting to turn the country into some kind of Texas, led by a Donald Trump like figure don't you.
Just for once, get over this self appointed sense of Scottish moral superiority will you..it doesn't exist.
CyclopsRock
Member
I'm not sure if that was a joke but I wasn't talking about Erasmus at all. IMO the general problem with our discussion about immigration in the UK is that it's very broad stroke - how many benefits do they take, how many businesses do they start, how much tax do they pay etc. And so you have people saying, truthfully, things like "Immigration brings in £x million to the exchequer and create 300,000 new jobs!" or whatever. But that doesn't break it down - as Quiche mentioned above, whilst you can quite easily look at net stats, that doesn't tell you that some groups benefit whilst others are harmed. In the case of immigration, it's overwhelmingly the educated middle classes that benefit (because they get cheaper services, cheaper goods, they get to enjoy that nice Hungarian cafe for brunch, they're more likely to be able to move abroad for good work opportunities as well as being more likely to be offered them in the first place etc) where as the working classes have seen the competition for their jobs rocket, driving down wages and removing from them the few high-paid industries that remained to them (notably the trades that require some form of apprenticeship like plumbing, electricians etc) and the low-skilled jobs that were typically the reserve of uneducated young people - shops, restaurants, fast food, cafe's etc - now have so much competition from people who often are older and with more experience (but to whom working minimum wage in the UK is still better than if they'd not been able to come here) that they either can't get a job or they find that their wages hardly change because of the enormous pressures keeping them down. They're also very unlikely to find themselves getting job offers from elsewhere in the EU if they're uneducated, so that reciprocal benefit isn't actually a benefit to them.
In short, you mentioned that the more educated someone is, the more chance they are to want to remain in the EU and the implication there was kinda that the people that want to leave are dumb and don't know what's good for them. My point was that it could be that the two groups - uneducated and educated - are not affected by the EU in the same way and that this is why there's a discrepancy in their support for the EU.
You vote for tories so we get tories. It's not moral superiority it's a crucial difference that leaves no side happy.
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
You vote for the SNP which won't raise taxes by 1p to spend on services in times of austerity...sounds Tory to me.
Yes we're tory even though we have more pandas.
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
Ignore, deflect and obfuscate...typical SNP cult response.
CalamityPixel
Member
Sheffield is mainly where I've discussed the EU referendum with people.
Former member of labour voted snp once in my life. You deflected by making a nonsense point when we can't impose left wing policies on the uk like the tories can.
Edit you do realise not everyone that wants independence is with the snp? But just box people in so you can dismiss.
uncleniccius
Member
I probably should have worded that differently, sorry. The university thing led me to wonder what would change, it meant to be an unrelated question.
And with regards to the impacts, that's definitely right. The two groups are definitely impacted very differently by the fact of our membership of the EU. Outside of that however, compared with less educated young people I think the better educated are more likely To be aware of impact on the whole of the country than someone of the same age who didn't go to university.
But yeah, I should have made it clear that there are very different impacts of membership on different people, with people like myself being the main beneficiaries. However, I think regardless I'd probably be in, but many wouldn't be.
The SNP would happily raise taxes (they did after all propose replacing council tax with a 'local' income tax which would have increased the contributions of middle and higher earners), they're not going to raise it by 1p across all bands which is all they're allowed to do with the powers they've been given. Or are you suggesting that tax should be raised on the bottom earners to prevent the effects of austerity (because that would seem to a bit silly)
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
That's what devolution is for, the SNP can raise taxes to spend on this mythical, more caring sharing Scottish sensibility that we keep hearing about, all they like, but won't.
They won't even commit to an extra 1p on taxes to fund this Scottish utopia.
Don't tell me the SNP are left wing, because they aren't.
They're just Tories without the posh English accent.
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