Support NeoGAF

[shinra-bansho]

End of March would coincide with GDC - I'm still assuming Sony will want to hold their own event.

Also Sony you better have some good ass ideas for it and not just toss it out there and hope developers use it like you do with so many other ideas.

Nintendo haven't managed to make a compelling argument for the touch screen yet, imo. I highly doubt Sony will if they include one. Rear view mirror for GT6... yay...

 

[Ashes]

Hey.. They had six button itterations on the front of the original dual shock once.

I made a version of this in the old Cafe mockups, except I made the screen portrait for some reason.

Link?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Can't find a link right now sorry.

The position of the analog sticks doesn't seem very comfortable. They must be closer.

I think this would be the perfect solution:

Big sticks that get in the way of your reach to the touch surface isn't ideal, they could be recessed though.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Big sticks that get in the way of your reach to the touch surface isn't ideal, they could be recessed though.

Recessed sticks and tiny-assed buttons, compromising the traditional control scheme that developers will actually use for the shoehorned "novelty" that no devs will bother with. Bleh.

 

[Ashes]

Can't find a link right now sorry.

Weird thing is I just realised my hatchet job is basically the wii u pad.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Recessed sticks and tiny-assed buttons, compromising the traditional control scheme that developers will actually use for the shoehorned "novelty" that no devs will bother with. Bleh.

Is recessed sticks a bad thing though? I'm thinking of something like the one on the navigation controller.

 

[Pyramid head]

The dualshock has always been a testament to placing more importance on brand recognition than basic ergonomic design. I'll not be sad to see the back of it. Come on Sony, it's time to actually DESIGN something as opposed to bolting a couple of sticks onto your old controller as an afterthought and riding it out for 15 years.

 

[spock]

While I love to hear of the big 3 making changes and innovating, the way it sounds is that they still dont have a clear vision on the new controller concept. Not good IMO. Seems a bit late to still be in the idea phase of things.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Is recessed sticks a bad thing though? I'm thinking of something like the one on the navigation controller.

I'm not particularly familiar with Move etc. but at a certain point recession presumably restricts the range of motion, depending upon how it's done.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I'd be happy to have a small screen that allowed for simple functionality like swapping between apps, checking friends list, trophy info, messages etc. without leaving the game

 

[m.i.s.]

Another presumption - biometrics is certainly not going to be removed. Easy to do from an engineering standpoint, visually unassuming and already patented. Only high costs (maybe) and limited functionality (hardly) would prevent it from being added in.

I hope this isn't just another case of sticking something in just for the sake of it. ie like the reverse touch screen, gyro sensors and cameras on Vita or NFC on Wii U gamepad or AR on 3DS.

I would just like to see a tightly focused device centred around the strenths of dedicated gaming.

Visual & audio cues to heighten immersion.

Link various measurements to - superficial or otherwise - changes in your character.

For example, you could synch the character's breathing with yours.

Change animation to match measurements - for example, anxious/stress could be reflected in different character animations, from calm controlled movements to perhaps more desperate flailing. Sudden surprise in the player could be reflected in character's animation or facial expression.

Audio cues and music could be paced in line with measured player stress/surprise etc.

'AI' changes could also represent something different than making enemies smarter or more difficult. Valve talks about, for example, an AI game director that generates events and sequences of events, managing the pace of the game - and thinks there is potential in directing the game according to measurements of user arousal vs boredom etc. Some non-linear and open world games generate events dynamically and being able to measure the player's reaction to things and current state could be a useful input in optimising those generators.

Superfluous and superficial. And "AI"? Are we going to get into this again?!?!

 

[Zoe]

I hope this isn't just another case of sticking something in just for the sake of it. ie like the reverse touch screen, gyro sensors and cameras on Vita or NFC on Wii U gamepad or AR on 3DS.

I don't get the constant complaints against gyro. It's been a standard feature for years now. Even smart phones and tablets support it.

 

[DBT85]

I don't get the constant complaints against gyro. It's been a standard feature for years now. Even smart phones and tablets support it.

I agree, Gyro use in Uncharted: GA showed how it really can be a great addition. No way will it not be included in the DS4.

 

[Zoe]

I agree, Gyro use in Uncharted: GA showed how it really can be a great addition. No way will it not be included in the DS4.

I wouldn't play Gravity Rush any other way.

 

[Oppo]

The dualshock has always been a testament to placing more importance on brand recognition than basic ergonomic design. I'll not be sad to see the back of it. Come on Sony, it's time to actually DESIGN something as opposed to bolting a couple of sticks onto your old controller as an afterthought and riding it out for 15 years.

Maybe you don't remember when they did try something different with the PS3 controller initially, and were basically shouted down by the press and fans. People love their dual shocks, whatever you think of it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I agree, Gyro use in Uncharted: GA showed how it really can be a great addition. No way will it not be included in the DS4.

It was in the DS3 around the vertical axis, it's likely they'll upgrade to tri axis gyro and magnetometer as it's pretty standard for handheld devices these days. MS might even do the same.

 

[Lemonte]

Hey.. They had six button itterations on the front of the original dual shock once.

I like these old prototypes.. but not the d-pad

they should definitely bring back plus and minus buttons

 

[Rösti]

I did my usual patent search and noticed a potentially interesting thing. Espacenet (EPO) had the following patent published in early January this year (it does not appear to be published in the US yet):

WO2012169367 - CONTROLLER DEVICE

Inventor(s): OSAWA HIROSHI [JP]; YAMAGISHI TAKESHI [JP] +
Applicant(s): SONY COMP ENTERTAINMENT INC [JP]; OSAWA HIROSHI [JP]; YAMAGISHI TAKESHI [JP] + (SONY COMPUTER
ENTERTAINMENT INC, ; OSAWA, HIROSHI, ; YAMAGISHI, TAKESHI)

Provided is a controller device capable of performing various operation inputs to an information processing device via an attachment despite the attachment not being provided with an electrical circuit. The controller device includes a core unit having a touch sensor disposed on a surface thereof, and an attachment that is attached to the core unit so as to cover the touch sensor. The attachment is provided with an operation member that is configured so as to be able to contact the touch sensor in a state where the attachment is attached to the core unit, the contact mode with respect to the touch sensor changing in accordance with user operation.

Source: https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP12797304

I've searched thoroughly but found no earlier mention of this. If there are earlier posts about this patent, link them please. Anyway, the original document is in Japanese and I'm not very fluent in that language, so I have only been able to provide the abstract. If someone can provide a rough translation of the description and claims it would be appreciated. Mosaics are readily available though:

What do you think, could it be related to Orbis or is it insignificant?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Not seen that before, some of it does look potentially orbis related, having a look now. Description is like one of those things you bolt on an ipad to provide button and stick inputs via the touch surface, right? No idea about the lower pics.

 

[Rösti]

Not seen that before, some of it does look potentially orbis related, having a look now. Description is like one of those things you bolt on an ipad to provide button and stick inputs via the touch surface, right? No idea about the lower pics.

That seems about it, though perhaps a bit more advanced.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That seems about it, though perhaps a bit more advanced.

And messy.
The joystick on the back of a handle looks interesting at least, but hopefully these are early failed ideas because it looks a bit tragic and limiting in terms of simultaneous inputs.
I wouldn't say having fixed joysticks but removable face buttons is that terrible though, so they might do something based on that.

 

[AzaK]

I can't wait to see what terrible gimmicks come out for next gen.

If Kinect works as our minds thought it would it'd actually be pretty awesome. The GamePad is completely cool and who knows what Sony will do.

It's not like they're releasing coloured hats that flash when you're shot.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I did my usual patent search and noticed a potentially interesting thing. Espacenet (EPO) had the following patent published in early January this year (it does not appear to be published in the US yet):


Source: https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP12797304

I've searched thoroughly but found no earlier mention of this. If there are earlier posts about this patent, link them please. Anyway, the original document is in Japanese and I'm not very fluent in that language, so I have only been able to provide the abstract. If someone can provide a rough translation of the description and claims it would be appreciated. Mosaics are readily available though:

What do you think, could it be related to Orbis or is it insignificant?

Now THAT is more intriguing. What the hell is happening with that controller?

Looks like it has touchpads on the back similar to Vita.

 

[Ashes]

And messy.
The joystick on the back of a handle looks interesting at least, but hopefully these are early failed ideas because it looks a bit tragic and limiting in terms of simultaneous inputs.
I wouldn't say having fixed joysticks but removable face buttons is that terrible though, so they might do something based on that.

I don't think that's on the back. Just the back view of it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't think that's on the back. Just the back view of it.

No it's the back on page 11/26 specifically,it looks just like the one on the previous page except it's on the other side. Not sure why the sticks have holes on the face but it could be one of these biometric sensors, that patent mentioned sensors on the sticks as an example.

 

[grimshawish]

So the touch is the main device and other things plug into it?
Some of this looks...odd...especially the faceplate buttons sticking to the touch device.

This looks like very early stuff they patented. But certainly a significant find in terms of Sony's ideas. It would seem those saying a touch device were on the right lines.

I suspect this has become the new controller, without all the attatch stuff.
So a touch pad of some sort seems to be what we are maybe looking at.

 

[Graphics Horse]

So the touch is the main device and other things plug into it?
Some of this looks...odd...especially the faceplate buttons sticking to the touch device.

Some of it is just insane ideas they've dreamt up based on the concept and would never see the light of day, like sticking the touch panel under a foot pedal or gear stick. I can't see that ever happening. ( Although I'm sure I remember something about a foot pedal that you insert an ipod or wii remote into and measured the angle via the accelerometers, or maybe that was a bad dream)

 

[B.O.O.M]

woah that's actually looks very intriguing. But I have no idea what's going on with that controller. Who here speaks Japanese?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Very rough idea but I would expect something like this:



I should have left the PS button on the main unit but you get the idea, also I wouldn't expect it to stay looking literally identical to the DS design, I'm just being lazy.

Hmmmm.... I don't know.

Me neither, but it wouldn't ruin anything while adding extra functionality. Half the pad being exposed doesn't look great the way I've drawn it but it might be better to allow the combination of buttons and touch than cover it completely.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Very rough idea but I would expect something like this:

Hmmmm.... I don't know.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

looks like they want to reach wide with that patent and cover a near completely modular controller design. especially considering it's got a bunch of different configurations plus the move controller added in too.

 

[Clay Davis]

Very rough idea but I would expect something like this:

so the entire pad is a touch pad but with customisable face plates? very interesting if that's what they have planned. I was personally hoping for a controller that had a back touch pad like the vita, but you can't have everything I guess.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

so the entire pad is a touch pad but with customisable face plates? very interesting if that's what they have planned. I was personally hoping for a controller that had a back touch pad like the vita, but you can't have everything I guess.

Ohh!! Since you put it this way, yeah it can work as Vita's back touchpad with "buttons" that can interchange. The controller will sense what faceplate is being used.

But then again, until I don't see any game or an official controller, this looks all weird to me in mockups.

 

[TunaLover]

The Gamepad was one of the factors why Wii U was so costly, I can´t imagine Sony including a costly touch screen controller with an already beast system, would they subsidise the whole cost again? How much will this thing cost?

 

[Graphics Horse]

so the entire pad is a touch pad but with customisable face plates? very interesting if that's what they have planned. I was personally hoping for a controller that had a back touch pad like the vita, but you can't have everything I guess.

I realise this is just something I knocked together but having a big long flat section along the top could support the 'LED strip' that is rumoured to run along the top for camera tracking.

Ohh!! Since you put it this way, yeah it can work as Vita's back touchpad with "buttons" that can interchange. The controller will sense what faceplate is being used.

But then again, until I don't see any game or an official controller, this looks all weird to me in mockups.

Yes I should have drawn the texture on like I have previously, I've never really been sold on the screen theory/report.

Also rather than bother with a screen you could add some configurable light up symbols under the touch pad for various uses, so you have various positioned virtual buttons for when a blank canvas seems a bit limiting.

 

[Orbis]

So the touch is the main device and other things plug into it?
Some of this looks...odd...especially the faceplate buttons sticking to the touch device.

This looks like very early stuff they patented. But certainly a significant find in terms of Sony's ideas. It would seem those saying a touch device were on the right lines.

I suspect this has become the new controller, without all the attatch stuff.
So a touch pad of some sort seems to be what we are maybe looking at.

That's how I see it. Some kind of central controller piece, with interchangeable attachments. I'm having nightmares of cheap slot-together plastic which creaks when you grip it though. I must admit, I'd be interested if you could split the controller in half, à la Wiimote + Nunchuck.

And yeah, I guess like all patent designs, it looks weird because it's patenting the concept, rather than the final or even prototype design. Some of it is just beyond comprehension and totally alien though. We totally need some translation here.

 

[velociraptor]

Tbh I am fearing the worst for the controller. In my mind, I see a total catastrophe.

That's how I see it. Some kind of central controller piece, with interchangeable attachments. I'm having nightmares of cheap slot-together plastic which creaks when you grip it though. I must admit, I'd be interested if you could split the controller in half, à la Wiimote + Nunchuck.

And yeah, I guess like all patent designs, it looks weird because it's patenting the concept, rather than the final or even prototype design. Some of it is just beyond comprehension and totally alien though. We totally need some translation here.

Nice name.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That's how I see it. Some kind of central controller piece, with interchangeable attachments. I'm having nightmares of cheap slot-together plastic which creaks when you grip it though.

Bolded sounds like the DS3 I use.

Maybe twisting the controller will make the attachment fly off like the PSP's twist'n'eject feature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Pg_K0oS2I

Idea with removable faceplate and individual LED lit symbols etched below the surface instead of a real screen:

 

[leroidys]

So Sony admitted today that they are waiting for Microsoft to "make the first move". Could this be about what controller to have as a pack in?

Maybe Sony is just waiting to see if Microsoft will include a tablet controller, and does't want to be left out in the cold if so. Remember, Microsoft has been rumored to be working on something like this since before Wii U was even revealed.

 

[Ashes]

So Sony admitted today that they are waiting for Microsoft to "make the first move". Could this be about what controller to have as a pack in?

Maybe Sony is just waiting to see if Microsoft will include a tablet controller, and does't want to be left out in the cold if so. Remember, Microsoft has been rumored to be working on something like this since before Wii U was even revealed.

link? or is that Hirai?

 

[sytadel]

The boomerang looked extremely comfortable, I'd love to see somebody bring it up in an interview with some of the Sony higher-ups. It's so disappointing how quickly it disappeared.

 

[Razgreez]

I think this would be the perfect solution:

Why not put a larger, gyro sensing screen on the back. No screen on the front. Screen on the back can be used as a rear touchpad when the controller is used in the normal position and it then only turns "on" when you flip the controller over allowing touchscreen capability like onscreen keyboard, dragging, dropping and tapping etc. It can then also be flipped over in a break-apart setup

 

[Lemonte]

The boomerang looked extremely comfortable, I'd love to see somebody bring it up in an interview with some of the Sony higher-ups. It's so disappointing how quickly it disappeared.

are there any hands on videos of ps3 boomerang controller? I think this is first time I have seen it from behind

 

[TimeEffect]

Why not put a larger, gyro sensing screen on the back. No screen on the front. Screen on the back can be used as a rear touchpad when the controller is used in the normal position and it then only turns "on" when you flip the controller over allowing touchscreen capability like onscreen keyboard, dragging, dropping and tapping etc. It can then also be flipped over in a break-apart setup

thats actually a good idea...

The boomerang looked extremely comfortable, I'd love to see somebody bring it up in an interview with some of the Sony higher-ups. It's so disappointing how quickly it disappeared.

boomerang woukd b nice lots of room below to add a screen too

 

[Mully]

The Boomerang looked awesome and comfortable. Shame it'll never come back.

 

[CLEEK]

So Sony admitted today that they are waiting for Microsoft to "make the first move". Could this be about what controller to have as a pack in?

Maybe Sony is just waiting to see if Microsoft will include a tablet controller, and does't want to be left out in the cold if so. Remember, Microsoft has been rumored to be working on something like this since before Wii U was even revealed.

I'm sure Sony knows more than most what MS are planning. And vise versa. I'd imagine the only surprises left are tweaks to the final specs, launch dates and pricing, which is probably what Hirai was referring to. What controllers will be used must surely be known for a long time.

 

[oversitting]

take the DS and put OLED around it and then add touch sensors.

 

[Ashes]

take the DS and put OLED around it and then add touch sensors.

Two screens aren't enough, you'd have three?

 

[DBT85]

Two screens aren't enough, you'd have three?

lol

Does anyone want to speculate on what (if any) interoperability we are going to see with Sonys other devices, notably the newly unveiled Xperia Z tablet and phone?

 

[Ashes]

Part of me believes this frees them up to do what they already wanted to do: find a way to leverage playstation on other devices. And secondly, touch screen is the only way to unify them all.

So how do you mesh them in way to keep us ps4 players happy, and psm players happy?