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[stryke]

How will Sony treat staggered game releases? Say Persona comes out in September which is before the compulsory neo October deadline, does the game require a neo mode for Western release?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but doesn't the bolded contradict each other?

Seems like it would be a lot easier to me to just release a slightly better performing version than put pressure on yourself to take advantage of that power, which your not obligated in any way to do besides 1080p

 

[boredandlazy]

Will game performance in CPU bottlenecked games just naturally perform better on the Neo without any updates due to the higher clockspeed?

 

[farisr]

Will game performance in CPU bottlenecked games just naturally perform better on the Neo without any updates due to the higher clockspeed?

I wondered about this too. But it may depend on both how the game is coded and how neo runs the ps4 games without a specific neo mode. It may be that the neo specifically says "run in 1.6GHz and 7 cores" when playing a ps4 game that doesn't have a neo mode. In which case the game won't be able to utilize the extra power. Or it may be fully unlocked, but the game itself has specifically set limits of "1.6GHZ cpu usage on 6 cores"

I think the former, that the neo runs it by purposely limiting the resources available in baseps4 mode might end up happening, which would be a shame, but not doing something like that might break compatibility or cause bugs.

 

[pixelation]

the differences in the two games would be obvious if the system is actually utilized.

Whoah... imagine Horizon and GOW5 utilizing Neo PS4's abilities in full, would Sony allow them?. They gotta make Neo look desirable to us guys who already have a PS4!

 

[Jacksinthe]

I wondered about this too. But it may depend on both how the game is coded and how neo runs the ps4 games without a specific neo mode. It may be that the neo specifically says "run in 1.6GHz and 7 cores" when playing a ps4 game that doesn't have a neo mode. In which case the game won't be able to utilize the extra power. Or it may be fully unlocked, but the game itself has specifically set limits of "1.6GHZ cpu usage on 6 cores"

I think the former, that the neo runs it by purposely limiting the resources available in baseps4 mode might end up happening, which would be a shame, but not doing something like that might break compatibility or cause bugs.

We don't code for clock speed. We fill what we can of 16.6 or 33.3 frame buffer and move on. The more cycles available, the faster the operation can perform over the same amount of time.

Think of it like a waveform. There are 44,100 samples in a standard CD format audio file over the course of 1 second. By increasing the fidelity to 96,000, we can fit more samples in the same amount of time. With faster clock speeds, operations perform faster, we can increase the number of operations. Not using all available cycles will mean you will be done before the frame is ready, as you should be. The next set of instructions won't execute until the next frame needs to be built.

If it's the exact same CPU but clocked. I expect zero issues and I expect games that choke on PS4 to run better on PS4k provided the CPU was the choke.

 

[timmyp53]

We don't code for clock speed. We fill what we can of 16.6 or 33.3 frame buffer and move on. The more cycles available, the faster the operation can perform over the same amount of time.

Think of it like a waveform. There are 44,100 samples in a standard CD format audio file over the course of 1 second. By increasing the fidelity to 96,000, we can fit more samples in the same amount of time. With faster clock speeds, operations perform faster, we can increase the number of operations. Not using all available cycles will mean you will be done before the frame is ready, as you should be. The next set of instructions won't execute until the next frame needs to be built.

If it's the exact same CPU but clocked. I expect zero issues and I expect games that choke on PS4 to run better on PS4k provided the CPU was the choke.

Welp Witcher 3 is about to get that stability update.

 

[farisr]

We don't code for clock speed. We fill what we can of 16.6 or 33.3 frame buffer and move on. The more cycles available, the faster the operation can perform over the same amount of time.

Think of it like a waveform. There are 44,100 samples in a standard CD format audio file over the course of 1 second. By increasing the fidelity to 96,000, we can fit more samples in the same amount of time. With faster clock speeds, operations perform faster, we can increase the number of operations. Not using all available cycles will mean you will be done before the frame is ready, as you should be. The next set of instructions won't execute until the next frame needs to be built.

If it's the exact same CPU but clocked. I expect zero issues and I expect games that choke on PS4 to run better on PS4k provided the CPU was the choke.

Cool. So basically this means as long as the ps4k isn't itself somehow set to limit the clockspeed when running baseps4 games that don't have a particular neo mode, games that have a variable framerate (45-50 on average with maybe a 60fps cap) or games that have a 30fps cap but have minor dips due to CPU power on the baseps4, could in theory run even closer to or at 60fps, and at a solid 30fps respectively right out of the box?

 

[Melchiah]

I doubt they will do that, at least in PVP since that would be extremely unfair. They might make PS4 30FPS and PS4K 60FPS in PVE though.

I excpect PVP to be 900p/60 on PS4 and 1080p/60 on PS4K

What about the advantage the PC gamers already have against the PS4 players? I've seen no complaints about that.


EDIT:

Sorry for the wait work and all, anyways. Notes from a few friends.

As far as the patching of games is concerned it is very doubtful that games will be patched that do not get a lot of post release attention. A great example of a game that would have been in line is Driveclub had sony not closed Evolution studios. He also states that certain games that are released yearly more than likely would not be patched and the studios would more than likely just focus the newer games at a higher spec to showcase the new system.

Noooo! It's depressing to think, that we could have gotten an even better version of the best looking racing game of this generation, but now we never will.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

The general gist was that this thing is a substantial (not minimal) upgrade and could in theory make ports more complicated as the differences in the two games would be obvious if the system is actually utilized.

Again, appreciate your insights.

The bolded part might explain why of all companies the market leader tries this stunt... They have the lead platform and they can basically force developers to follow their strategy. Not saying this will turn out how they expect, but it would be much harder for the other two console manufacturers.

Last bit before I forget everyone I have talked to including Diana would be largely surprised if this thing does not have UHD media capabilities.

Glad to hear that.


Concerning the difference of Vanilla PS4 and PS4 Neo games: Even with a much stronger CPU, let's say twice as strong, the differences between both versions of a game would still be negligible, at least in 3rd party games. Thanks a lot, diminishing returns! I mean 1080p instead of 900p? Rock solid 30 fps instead of rare drops to 25 fps? Better shadows? Most people won't see any difference, even if you tell them what's going on.

So, what really works as you can easly communicate it to the masses of customers out there is that "play in 4k" approach (even if it's only upscaling in most cases), and you don't need a much beefier CPU for that.

 

[93xfan]

Again. Can't wait for the neo remakes.

What is this comment? Are you just trying to sound uninformed?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Concerning the difference of Vanilla PS4 and PS4 Neo games: Even with a much stronger CPU, let's say twice as strong, the differences between both versions of a game would still be negligible, at least in 3rd party games.

Although I agree with diminishing returns to a certain extent, in theory, just comparing GPU specs, the Neo should make a massive difference.

Look at Xbox 360 vs Xbox One GPUs:

0.24TF (3? generations older architecture than Xbox One)
1.23TF (2 generations older architecture than latest dGPUs at launch?)

1TF difference and most would say the jump is pretty damn good but not as spectacular as previous generations.

PS4 vs Neo GPUs

1.84TF (2 generations older architecture than latest dGPUs at launch?)
4.2TF (could use Polaris tech at least in part)

2.35TF difference (Could use latest GPU architecture 3 gens ahead of PS4)

I for one would be sorely disappointed if Sony did limit Neo to negligible differences because on paper there should be something like a HD7850/70 > R9 290 jump for a dev with no restrictions and I'd doubt you would find anyone in the PC space claim that jump would be negligible.

Can't wait to see the first Sony game that takes full advantage (God of War 4?)

 

[Jacksinthe]

Cool. So basically this means as long as the ps4k isn't itself somehow set to limit the clockspeed when running baseps4 games that don't have a particular neo mode, games that have a variable framerate (45-50 on average with maybe a 60fps cap) or games that have a 30fps cap but have minor dips due to CPU power on the baseps4, could in theory run even closer to or at 60fps, and at a solid 30fps respectively right out of the box?

You don't limit clock speeds. There's no need to.

If the CPU is the culprit then it will help. It can't make a 30fps game move at 60fps unless the devs tell it to with a patch and unless the power leap is large enough to double the speed at which operations execute - with the rumored upgrade, that's impossible unless the actual framerate was close to 60 to begin with.

On the CPU front you won't see a drastic increase in frames but you will see much smoother ride. As more devs shift to compute to carry instructions we will see some cool shit.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

snip

I hope Battlefront gets a patch if this Machine launches at the end of this year or so.

 

[lightchris]

Although I agree with diminishing returns to a certain extent, in theory, just comparing GPU specs, the Neo should make a massive difference.

Look at Xbox 360 vs Xbox One GPUs:

0.24TF (3? generations older architecture than Xbox One)
1.23TF (2 generations older architecture than latest dGPUs at launch?)

1TF difference and most would say the jump is pretty damn good but not as spectacular as previous generations.

PS4 vs Neo GPUs

1.84TF (2 generations older architecture than latest dGPUs at launch?)
4.2TF (could use Polaris tech at least in part)

2.35TF difference (Could use latest GPU architecture 3 gens ahead of PS4)

That's not a very good metric for measuring performance advantages (as it can be misleading). On Xbox One the GPU could do ~5.5 times as many operations compared to Xbox 360 (disregarding the big changes in architecture). Neo can do ~2.3 times as much as PS4; that's not bad, but it's not a generational leap.

Also, the differences between the GCN architectures are pretty small.

You don't limit clock speeds. There's no need to.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It shouldn't matter if the software doesn't make any assumptions about clock speeds (be it intentional or unintentional), but you can't really guarantee that. If they want 100% compatibility without the possibility of any unexpected behaviour, they might opt to set the CPU clock to the original 1.6 GHz.

 

[Netherscourge]

A locked 45fps or higher mandate would have been nice also.

I hate fluxuating frame rates. Lock it at 30 for all I care, just don't let it spike up and down so much.

And for goodness sake cap it for screen tearing when needed.

 

[onQ123]

Xbox One GPU is 5.5 times the flops of Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is 3.2 times the flops as Xbox One.


Xbox One GPU is 1 Tflop more than Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is almost 3 Tflops more than Xbox One.


flops isn't everything but damn!

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

That's not a very good metric for measuring performance advantages (as it can be misleading). On Xbox One the GPU could do ~5.5 times as many operations compared to Xbox 360 (disregarding the big changes in architecture). Neo can do ~2.3 times as much as PS4; that's not bad, but it's not a generational leap.

Also, the differences between the GCN architectures are pretty small.

I do get that and didn't, nor wouldn't, claim a generational leap. Just the boost is much more significant than a few effects and more stable frame rate. At least if the reins were fully unleashed.

As for GCN I don't know enough about it to be honest but AMD have claimed (yeah, yeah claims!) that Polaris sports the biggest update yet. This assumes Neo isn't just a turbo version of the current APU.

 

[gofreak]

Will game performance in CPU bottlenecked games just naturally perform better on the Neo without any updates due to the higher clockspeed?

If you mean without a Neo mode or patch? No. I believe in base mode the game will be running with the same resources exposed as a regular PS4, including the CPU running at the standard 1.6Ghz.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Xbox One GPU is 5.5 times the flops of Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is 3.2 times the flops as Xbox One.


Xbox One GPU is 1 Tflop more than Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is almost 3 Tflops more than Xbox One.


flops isn't everything but damn!

The PS4K is a beast.

 

[potatohead]

Xbox One GPU is 5.5 times the flops of Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is 3.2 times the flops as Xbox One.


Xbox One GPU is 1 Tflop more than Xbox 360 & PS4 Neo is almost 3 Tflops more than Xbox One.


flops isn't everything but damn!

Since it's all AMD GPUs the FLOPs might mean a lot more, just guessing...

Much harder to compare FLOPs between Nvidia and AMD, but here we don't have to do that.

 

[Grief51]

Yeah, 4.2 TF 1.84 TF + newer gpu architecture is quite a substantial leap. Also an overclocked cpu should alleviate some of the cpu bottlenecks (allthough probably not completely). 2.3x is nothing to sneeze at.

Some people are disappointed we are not going to see Driveclub use this technology. Well you can bet your ass GT Sport is going to look WAY better than even Driveclub if Polyphony are targeting the new specs.

In general, I think Sony first party are going to show a big gap between the PS4 and PS4k versions. The difference in multiplatform games is probably going to be much smaller - expect higher resolution and a more stable frame rate.

I am sure at E3 Sony will show graphics in games like GT Sport and God of War 4 that will blow our minds. Then people will start to understand how big of an upgrade this really is.

 

[M3d10n]

AFAIK, merely recompiling a game for SDK 3.5 should enable NEO support and allow it to run faster on Neo units... as long as there aren't any changes needed to get the game to run with SDK 3.5, that is, which in turn requires at least a new round of QA.

 

[BigDug13]

PS4K has double the GPU power...it would be possible for devs to make entirely new assets for it, but since this is just another SKU for Sony to sell, i doubt many will take advantage of that...and really they don't need to if they substitute it with higher IQ

I've generally been happier with the performance of last gen games released on PS4 such as AC4 and BL2. If PS4K will give me that level of performance polish while looking like the graphics of PS4, I'll be a happy camper.

 

[Theonik]

Cool. So basically this means as long as the ps4k isn't itself somehow set to limit the clockspeed when running baseps4 games that don't have a particular neo mode, games that have a variable framerate (45-50 on average with maybe a 60fps cap) or games that have a 30fps cap but have minor dips due to CPU power on the baseps4, could in theory run even closer to or at 60fps, and at a solid 30fps respectively right out of the box?

I would imagine Sony will opt to limit performance in games that don't support the Neo to ensure compatibility, but they might get away with not doing so.

And yes, it should be the case that in most situations*, games played on the Neo will have smoother framerates all other things being the same, software after October will have to take advantage of the Neo so it's a good bet.

*in situations where the bottleneck might be streaming assets from the hard-drive or disc the Neo will perform the same unless those specs have also been bumped but these details are not disclosed atm.