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Fable 2 Impressions (Talks about Death and Combat)

SPEA

Member
Pretty weird way of handling death, or well, the lack there of. I guess we'll see how it comes about
http://kotaku.com/gaming/fable-2/up-close-with-fable-2-on-death-and-combat-277527.php

When last we saw Peter Molyneux and his promise-filled Fable 2 at GDC, he just would not stop talking about his dog. I should know, I was there. And you know what? He made a believer out of me. But this time, in a hotel room at E3, he showed off two things teenage boys are probably much more interested in: fighting and death.

He teased us about death back in May, but this time he actually elaborates. There is no death. Instead, your character gets beaten until he collapses. Then he (or she) gets beaten some more. And more. Continuously beaten until you get up. How do you get up? By paying for it in either experience or gold. How fast you get up, and presumably continue fighting and killing your enemies, depends on how much money you pay. Pay a lot, get up fast. Pay a little, lie on the ground for, say, sixty seconds.

So what's the consequence of not getting up fast? You get scarred. SCARRED. Irreversibly scarred. And the more scars you have, the more townsfolk, villagers, barristers and women despise you.
Unless they're in some kinda weird scar club, which is still as of yet not confirmed to be in the game.

The inspiration for all this is, strangely enough, birthed from the scene in the latest James Bond movie where Bond is repeatedly punished in the genital area. Hard. And did we say repeatedly? Molyneux saw that Hollywood took their heroes beat them to a pulp, but never killed them. They would be scarred, sometimes irreversibly so, but never killed (unless you work with Jack Bauer). So why not take this mechanic and put it into Fable 2?

Since most of the game is spent in an effort to not die, let's talk about combat next. Molyneux says that in an RPG game, at least 50% of your playtime is going to be in combat. So he wanted to make a combat system that was both robust and accessible. The way he did that was by mapping just about every attack function (melee, at least) to the A button. It's definitely simple, and it's definitely button masher friendly—something P. M. said he wanted to embrace—but there's also a lot to do.

First, mashing the button just keeps you swinging and swinging. The AI will figure out your patterns and block most of your attacks, but some may get through. Timing presses correctly, while the enemy isn't blocking, is the key. Then there's blocking, which consists of holding down X. Holding down the attack button for a while gives you flourishes, which are essentially charged up moves.

If you want to get fancy, there's A and a direction for thrusts, and if you time everything correctly (A, hold A, or thrust A) you'll get a cool camera change that zooms in on the action. There's even a narrow focus to give it even more "dramatic effect". And on top of that, the battle music changes and adds drums, which supposedly is controlled by the rhythm of your attacks—or button mashes. It all comes together pretty cohesively.

However, Molyneux claims that the system is on par with say, a Virtua Fighter, but we don't quite agree. It's deep, sure, but it's not exactly at a Soul Calibur-esque level. But you do get to break items and throw stuff at enemies all with the same attack button. And although magic and ranged weapons weren't demoed, he says they work in much the same context-sensitive way as melee attacks.

As for the engine itself, it's also looking pretty good. Lips, as he pointed out himself, look like rubbish. And so does lighting on certain characters. But buildings, streets, breakable objects, flowers, character animations, and the general environment looked fantastic.

Is this the second of the big three things Peter Molyneux has in store for Fable 2? What's the third thing? I can't wait to find out.

Edit:
Here is the link to the IGN preview as well. They go more in depth about it and seem to be more positive.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/803/803839p1.html
 
The inspiration for all this is, strangely enough, birthed from the scene in the latest James Bond movie where Bond is repeatedly punished in the genital area. Hard. And did we say repeatedly?
:lol

This should have been bolded.
 

JoeLang

Member
IGN had better impressions on it. Apparently, out of the four face buttons, three of them are used for combat with one being projectiles, one melee, and one magic. All follow the same mechanic though of timing and rhythm.

While Fable was a good game, I think Peter might just actually come a little closer to his outlandish predictions made of the first one with Fable 2.
 

Bildi

Member
So what's the consequence of not getting up fast? You get scarred. SCARRED. Irreversibly scarred. And the more scars you have, the more townsfolk, villagers, barristers and women despise you.
I'm gonna be one ugly bastard.
 
Peter is crazy and I like it.

I think we are going to get something very special from Fable 2. It might not be a home-run... but it will at the very least provide something very unique.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
If you want to get fancy, there's A and a direction for thrusts, and if you time everything correctly (A, hold A, or thrust A) you'll get a cool camera change that zooms in on the action. There's even a narrow focus to give it even more "dramatic effect". And on top of that, the battle music changes and adds drums, which supposedly is controlled by the rhythm of your attacks—or button mashes. It all comes together pretty cohesively.


Uhh .. isn't this the control scheme for every hack 'n' slash in existence?

What would have been more unique was timing your attacks to the music .. and have the music change from time to time.
 

GavinGT

Banned
You pay for death in GOLD or EXPERIENCE? What a stupid approach, this is nothing like the Project Ego I was sold on.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So what's the consequence of not getting up fast? You get scarred. SCARRED. Irreversibly scarred. And the more scars you have, the more townsfolk, villagers, barristers and women despise you. Unless they're in some kinda weird scar club, which is still as of yet not confirmed to be in the game.
Okay, that's kind of neat. But weird.
 

GavinGT

Banned
JoeLang said:
While Fable was a good game, I think Peter might just actually come a little closer to his outlandish predictions made of the first one with Fable 2.

How can you say that? if anything, they're deviating further from their original ideas.
 

SPEA

Member
JoeLang said:
IGN had better impressions on it. Apparently, out of the four face buttons, three of them are used for combat with one being projectiles, one melee, and one magic. All follow the same mechanic though of timing and rhythm.

While Fable was a good game, I think Peter might just actually come a little closer to his outlandish predictions made of the first one with Fable 2.
Didn't know IGN had impressions up. Thanks. for the heads up. Here's the link. They go more in depth with it.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/803/803839p1.html
 

GavinGT

Banned
It's Virtua Fighter with dogs!

Seriously, though. I just want to plant an oak seed and come back ten years later to see an oak tree. Or wait, do I really want that?
 

USD

Member
The death part is... odd. I don't really plan on "dying" at all, unless intentionally for the purpose of getting scarred up.

I'm just going to ignore the fighting game comparison. I'll feel much better if I do.

Still, expecting to see a lot of good things from this game.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Sounds good. I do wish they pushed further the originality of the setting, it's still very medieval-ish (maybe more steampunk would have been nice) but that's just a personal thing.

But why is it that getting beaten up causes you to be perceived as a bad guy? Or is that unrelated to how you can turn good or bad?
 

Aaron

Member
Alcander said:
Who even died in the first fable? Come on
I did a few times, but hardly noticed with the rez potions. I'd say this is an improvement, but what if you can't pay?
 
Ether_Snake said:
Sounds good. I do wish they pushed further the originality of the setting, it's still very medieval-ish (maybe more steampunk would have been nice) but that's just a personal thing.

But why is it that getting beaten up causes you to be perceived as a bad guy? Or is that unrelated to how you can turn good or bad?


I wouldn't say being perceived as a "bad guy" but more of a....pussy.
 

CrapSandwich

former Navy SEAL
Peter's got another idea. Everybody stand back.

The problem here is that with the first Fable, he had so many dumb ideas that couldn't be implemented or weren't worthwhile, that it wasted development time and ultimately made Fable less than great when they had to pare it down to what worked. He needs to stop with the gimmicks.
 

jet1911

Member
Aaron said:
I did a few times, but hardly noticed with the rez potions. I'd say this is an improvement, but what if you can't pay?

If you lose all your health, your character will be knocked out. The nearby enemies will begin kicking and beating you on the ground. You have a choice to lose experience, gold, or reknown in order to get up. If you wait long enough, you'll get up on your own, but the longer you stay on the ground, the more permanent scars you attain.

I think it's pretty cool actually.
 

xaosslug

Member
that sucks, it's hard enough getting/keeping monies in that game as it is (unless something has changed w/ 2) now this shit is gonna make it even harder to keep? Pfft.
 
I have always been opposed to the "death -> reload save" system, especially in RPGs, simply because this mechanism completely takes you out of the game. By necessity, MMO games have been much more creative in their "death" system (and what exactly the "death penalty" should be is one of the most contentious issues on MMO forums). I am greatly in favor of experimentation in what "death" should mean in a game, so I'm looking forward to Fable2...
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
BrokenSymmetry said:
I have always been opposed to the "death -> reload save" system, especially in RPGs, simply because this mechanism completely takes you out of the game. By necessity, MMO games have been much more creative in their "death" system (and what exactly the "death penalty" should be is one of the most contentious issues on MMO forums). I am greatly in favor of experimentation in what "death" should mean in a game, so I'm looking forward to Fable2...
It's different, sure, but I think I'd rather just die and be respawned at some checkpoint amd get back into the game than be forced to choose between watching people batter my unconscious body for two minutes or pay gold/experience to get up with a bruise on my face.
 
Ether_Snake said:
Sounds good. I do wish they pushed further the originality of the setting, it's still very medieval-ish (maybe more steampunk would have been nice) but that's just a personal thing.

But why is it that getting beaten up causes you to be perceived as a bad guy? Or is that unrelated to how you can turn good or bad?

NPC's wont think of you as a bad guy, but will not like you/ fear you because your ugly. :lol That actually sounds pretty cool. Peter, add face deformation and a growing Hunchback and this game will sell MILLIONS! And have the dog take a piss on your characters leg every so often because of the uglyiness.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
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PleoMax

Banned
Man i love Peter. Fable wasn't what it could've been, but it was really cool anyway, and this one seems to be shaping up really nice, and i like how "low key" it's being, really gives a great vibe in this case, as the game really seems to be shaping up smoothly and without pressure.

Can't wait for Fable 2.
 

comrade

Member
Pistolero said:
Lame...I had to say it. Getting beaten until people despise you ? :lol
I have to agree. I'd rather just reload from a checkpoint personally. I thought chicks dug scars anyway?

Edit: now that I think about it, there is still that option of reloading from a checkpoint manually. They haven't said how the save system is going to work but I'm sure I'll be reloading every time I get beaten unconscious.
 

PleoMax

Banned
It's making Death a gameplay mechanic. It's not lame, as it affects the gameplay of the game.

I think it's a great idea.
 
PleoMax said:
It's making Death a gameplay mechanic. It's not lame, as it affects the gameplay of the game.

I think it's a great idea.
So standing there watching people beat your corpse for two minutes sounds enticing to you? Maybe they could urinate on your dead body and propel this game to GOTY status.
 

PleoMax

Banned
BamYouHaveAids said:
So standing there watching people beat your corpse for two minutes sounds enticing to you? Maybe they could urinate on your dead body and propel this game to GOTY status.

It's a choice you make, whenever you "die" you have to make a choice that affects gameplay. I think it's great honestly.
 

GashPrex

NeoGaf-Gold™ Member
i love how anything new and different is "ridiculous", especially when its PM. I am all for trying new stuff, even to conventional 20 year old gameplay mechanics. This game is all about making you care about your character...plus the dog looks fantastic. I can't wait for Fable 2, going to be a lot more of a complete experience, even though I really enjoyed the first one.
 

xaosslug

Member
i saw that gunz'll be in Fable 2 this go around, and path of evil can turn you into a big bad flaming monster dude (just watched teh od trailer). Assuming the old trailer can be trusted... Kewl!
Wario64 said:

the march of red x-age... hotlinking is no one's friend. :p
 
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