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[cormack12]

I think a lot of Sony first party games have really under rated combat options, and a lot of depth. I really don't think a lot of their games get the creit they are due. I attribute this to most players thinking of Sony games as single player games - basically you play it through on normal difficulty interact with a fair amount of the systems during your gameplay, complete the game and then shelf it. I think to get really explorre the depth you need to be one of those players who really engages with all facets of the combat, systems and mechanics. Most, if not all of their combat systems have a lot of options, support different gameplay styles and can be easy to use, but have so many layers of depth to actually master.

I was compelled to write this post after playing Spider-Man 2. While I am pretty bored of the 'endless waves', and finding the skills and abilities a bit overwhelming. But I'm starting to get a handle on them now (after being forced to tbh), and I was thinking of other games over the last few years that have been produced with the same underlying combat options. Stealth, combo, aggressive, passive, button masher, conservative and agressive playstyles all seem possible.

Am I mad, or is this a reasonable take? There seems ot be so many options, and I think they are games and systems where you get out what you put in. But if you choose to not, you're doing the combat design a disservice.

 

[cormack12]

Also this isn't a guarded post to secretly say no one can make good combat or a criticism of combat in other titles, just something I've been thinking about while playing SM2

 

[mrcroket]

I wouldn't call horizon combat good by any means. I don't think it's characteristic of sony's first party either, Spiderman and Ghost of the Tsushima are fantastic, but God of war and Returnal are just okay.

 

[Gaiff]

Lol at Sony games of all games not getting their due in anything.

Edit: Also, over-the-shoulder camera is still shit for GOW. While it works wonders to aim with the Leviathan Axe, it comes at the expense of crowd control.

 

[tommycronin]

Just because a player doesn't doesn't engage with all the gameplay systems doesn't mean it's the players fault. Sony's games really don't ask much of you to actually deep dive into its systems at all.

Ragnarok was mostly copy and paste of God of War 2018. The only actual addition to the game was the Spear which was in the 2nd half of the game and is trash. I wouldn't consider the combat deep at all it certainly gives the illusion that's is.

Returnal I absolutely agree it's easily the best of the lot and the best thing Sony have done in that department. The gameplay loop is very satisfying.

I find Horizons combat bad because of the visual vomit on screen you constantly have to slow down time to even have a meaningful impact on the gameplay. Using that bow got tired real quick in the first game and most definitely in the 2nd game.

 

[Punished Miku]

All their games rate highly critically, rate high from fans, and sell high numbers. I don't think anyone would actually claim they make bad games, even if their taste is not matching what they are putting out.

I can't watch your videos at work but will check it out later. My impressions of most Sony combat systems off the top of my head:

• Ghost of Tsushima: Pretty good. Plays extremely similarly to the old Assassin's Creed games pre-Origins. I always enjoyed those, and they're great for cutting down waves of enemies and showing off cool kill animations. I don't think they're renowned for being top tier combat systems though. The stance system is not great, not on par with Nioh.
• Uncharted 4: Very competent TPS. Nothing revolutionary but it all works great, feels great. The rope was a really nice addition for traversal.
• Spider Man: Pretty good. Plays extremely similarly to Arkham. Virtually the same thing, but it was at the time one of the best examples of an actually new western combat system that was a ton of fun. This emulates it very well. Awesome animations.
• God of War: Their most impressive combat system they've made. Attacks feel like they have weight, look cool, feel good. Decent amount of variety. Enemies are engaging. Doesn't transcend into the upper echelon of combat systems for me personally though because the camera is just so damn close to the character you can't even see your feet, can't see what is behind you, can't react to multiple enemies easily. Just a huge pain. It's up close to show off the character models and to look cool, but it really hurts the game. Encounter design can also highlight some issues with the enemies dropping in waves in a bowl being pretty frequent, or ranged enemies being more of a pain than they should be due to the poor camera.
• Horizon: Pretty good attempt at multiple bosses from a western studio. Most avoid bosses entirely, and here the normal enemies play like bosses. Fundamentally have issue with the feeling of impact of arrows on metal enemies, but other than that it's not bad. Melee is extremely simplistic. Defensive and dodge options are pretty limited. Combat is not the biggest issue this series has though.
• Returnal: I didn't like this as much as most people on here. I think the shooting and movement is fine. Nothing that revolutionary. The camera is actually CORRECTLY placed further back so you can see your feet and your surroundings a bit better. Build variety is extremely low and limited compared to something like Hades or Dead Cells.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I mean Returnal has no competitors in what it does. They somehow translated the smooth, controlled-chaos feel of a twin stick shooter perfectly into 3D. One of the overall best playing games of all times as far as I'm concerned.

And people can shit on the game for the story all they want, TLoU2's gameplay, mechanics, overall game feel and level design are outstanding.

Other games I wasn't that into at all. Tsushima just fucking bored me and God Of War's new combat and lame RPG Lite shit feels really stiff and weird to me.

 

[Topher]

Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima gameplay is definitely underrated, imo. Had a blast playing those games. I'd say Spider-man, TLOU 2 and God of War are all well regarded for their gameplay, and rightfully so.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I mean Returnal has no competitors in what it does.

Nope, there are plenty of boring and dull games out there.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Then most shit in the biz. Accessible with enough meat for those who want to master it.

 

[Elder Legend]

TLOU 2 has incredible combat

Combat in GoW 2018 and Ragnarok was pretty good.

Then there is Bloodborne which was also fun and well designed.

And Returnal is excellent.

Who says combat in Sony games or Sony games in general are underrated? Delusional thread that has no awareness of what the fans and critics have been saying about Sony's 1st party titles.

 

[RoboFu]

It’s a love hate for me. Most of the time it’s tight and very polished but it’s always damage sponge wave treadmill being the ‘ difficulty factor ‘ which I hate.

 

[skit_data]

All of them good and have distinct mechanics and feel IMO.

Atreus combat in GoW Ragnarök is the only one in recent memory I can remember feeling lackluster.

 

[kiphalfton]

Combat is good enough, but nowhere near the gold standard I feel like you're trying to make it out to be.

All games should strive for MGS V tier gameplay.

 

[yurinka]

Yep, I think the combat of these games is very good, particularly in GoW or Spider-Man.

And they are designed to appeal different tastes allowing you to go in a more casual and easy mindless way (average user), or to go in a more stealth and strategic way, etc., to go more hardcore also finding more optimal combos etc.

But obviously depends on the genre or the approach of the game. I mean, it's obvious that a game like GoW will focus more on providing more combat options because it's an action game than let's say TLOU, which is more focused on the narrative side, on going stealth and managing scarce resources/inventory because of its setting, story and tone.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I'm one of the few who liked the zero dawn and forbidden west combat. I got so good at it that I could eventually bump up the difficulty. I like how you use the sounds to know when something is charging you and you can doge, jump, craft, scan and shoot.

 

[Represent.]

Best combat in gaming. imo

No game has more visceral, brutal and intense combat than TLOU 2.
No game made me feel more like a Super-Hero than Spider-Man 2.
No game made me feel like a fucking God more than God of War.

None of it is over complicated. And to me complicated =/= good combat. Simplify that shit, make it feel good and look good.

They truly excel at using visual fidelity to enhance combat. Hit detection in all these games is master work. And they have the best animations in gaming. Which helps combat feel even better

 

[Shakka43]

Combat is excellent in pretty much all their games, where they have been lacking lately is in game pacing. There is way too much in-game talking while slow walking, those moments would work much better as cutscenes than having us just pushing a stick forward.

 

[mrcroket]

For a further explanation.

Returnal has a super simple combat system, it's basically the same scheme as Control (third person shooting, dash and basic melee attack), but with a character that moves too fast, making the control imprecise, especially in confined spaces or when you have enemies very close. The resistive triggers and vibration greatly improve the feeling though.

God of War has a combat system that becomes repetitive, it is based more on the rpg section and to convey the feeling of "dominance" over the enemies, but at the level of mechanics is quite simple.

Horizon is simply bad, the protagonist has a spear that is practically useless, the combats are not about skill, but about using the element that causes vulnerability, the stealth is reduced only to small enemies, and the combat against humans is horrible.

 

[Pedro Motta]

If you really want to take advantage of the combat systems and gameplay mechanics of Sony First party games or any other game for that matter, play them on hard difficulty. Normal modes are too easy nowadays, and games seem to lack depth that way.

 

[Woopah]

Horizon I felt was interesting but didn't reach its full potential. I loooooved combat in God of War and GoT.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

TLOU2, GoT, Spiderman, GoW, the list goes on and they all have amazing combat.

They need to show me a great modern FPS though, that would be very nice. But with COD running that show and it now being a MS first party title they must be looking at that surely? If they can recapture the glory days of Dice with BFBC2, BF3 and BF4 then they would have my cash easily. Those are some of the best FPS experiences I’ve ever had.

Damn, now I’m sad that Dice are a shadow of their former selves. How did they mess up 2042 so badly

 

[R6Rider]

Spear which was in the 2nd half of the game and is trash.

My guy, what are you talking about? The spear is amazing.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I don't like it. Koei Tecmo, Capcom, and FromSoft do what Sony can't.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The brilliant stories in PlayStation Studios games often overshadow the equally fantastic gameplay and combat.

I think amongst the big AAA titles, Uncharted had the weakest combat systems. But other than that, everything has been so on point:

• Returnal -- absolutely no match. There is no game out there that does 3P shooting that smoothly and at that pace. Once you 'git gud', you feel like an absolute monster.
• Ghost of Tsushima -- 2nd best sword fighting after Sekiro. Play the game at Lethal difficulty and just revel in cutting through waves and waves of enemies. The only real 'samurai' combat experience out there.
• God of War Ragnarok -- it is highly intricate and surprisingly detailed. You can chain so many brilliant combos if you know what you're doing.
• TLOU 2 -- What a massive improvement over the 1st game. Arguably the best AI in games, which makes every encounter so dynamic and different. Also, each attack has so much weight, coupled with top-notch animations.
• Spider-Man 2 -- It is not just built on the fantastic Arkham combat system, but it also improves upon it with superior animations, abilities, gadgets, environmental attacks, and more.
• Horizon Forbidden West -- Very, very underrated, in my opinion. There's so much strategy that goes into it, especially at higher difficulties. And, especially in Forbidden West, you have so many combat and traversal tools, that you can do some insane cinematic stuff in combat and feel like a total badass.

One of the best things I like about the combat in Sony games is that it can be super accessible and super difficult and detailed at the same time. It is up to you.

Pick the easy difficulty to breeze through it at a basic combat level. Or pick the hardest difficulty and you have to engage with it at the deepest level. I love the accessibility options.

 

[cormack12]

Just because a player doesn't doesn't engage with all the gameplay systems doesn't mean it's the players fault. Sony's games really don't ask much of you to actually deep dive into its systems at all.

I slightly disagree with this. Bloodborne is lauded as having some of the best combat of last gen. Yet you could beat the game without using parry or even engaging with the trick weapon mechanics, even the augments you can technically ignore if your melee game is strong. The path of least resistance - unless technical proficiency is your motivation - will often win out.

Sonys first party games are obviously for the mainstream so they need to be beatable with the core basic mechanics, which I'm guessing most people do. But there are layers of depth there is all I'm saying. There's no question they review well, score well and get plaudits for art, design and narrative but I feel sometimes they kind of gloss over just how deep some of the systems are and the variant gameplay styles they support.

I'm well aware some games just might not land properly and be a chore to play through for some people but - objectively taking a step back - I think you can look at the options the player has in each encounter and acknowledge the tools available to the player.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I'm a silly person! Weeeeeeeeeee. Oh look donuts nom nom looool

 

[rhodesianshepard]

TLOU2>GOW>Spider-Man>GOT>Days Gone>HFW

I think TLOU2 and God of War have amazing gameplay. It may not be deep but it is incredibly satisfying. GOT, Spider-Man, and Days Gone are rock solid. HFW is very meh

Sony doesn't reinvent the wheel when it comes to gameplay loops but they do a really good job of refining it

 

[Danjin44]

I don't like it. Koei Tecmo, Capcom, and FromSoft do what Sony can't.

 

[Vick]

You're 100% right, in fact a huge portion of my favorite combat systems are from Sony "exclusives".
However I've learned discussing these things on GAF only leads to an awful mood, and life's too short. I would stick to multiplatforms discussions.

 

[Woggleman]

TLOU2 honestly has some of the best combat I have ever played. The enemy AI on survivor or grounded makes it even better.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't like it. Koei Tecmo, Capcom, and FromSoft do what Sony can't.

They’re all on par with Sony games, usually Sony stands out a bit more with graphics and animations but gameplay they are certainly up there too.

 

[NeverYouMind]

They’re all on par with Sony games, usually Sony stands out a bit more with graphics and animations but gameplay they are certainly up there too.

Sony gameplay is like a bad fan mod of what those companies make.

 

[Hugare]

Returnal has the best combat in a Sony game in a very long time

Ghost of Tsushima is also great. Simple, but controls beautifuly and has it own feel.

GOW is ok. Was great in 2018, but by the end of Ragnarok, I've had more than enough of it for a lifetime

And Spider-man is just sloppy Arkham combat. Functional in 2018, but horrible in 2.

Naughty Dog games control great (mainly U4 and TLOU 2), but they are very unoriginal

 

[MarkMe2525]

Very subjective topic, but I can honestly say that outside of Horizon, I have enjoyed the combat systems in Sony 1st party output. On average, I dont think their combat systems stands above the crowd though. They work well, they are constantly fun, but I don't find them necessarily better than other offerings from many 3rd parties.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sony gameplay is like a bad fan mod of what those companies make.

Nah, disagree.

 

[GymWolf]

Their combat systems are the main reason why i play their games, way more than their stories.

And at least half of them (mostly gow and horizon) have REAL hard modes and not those hard but really easy bullshit mode that many game have.

Usually people who shat on them play on normal or doesn't play them at all, or they just like the more arcadey japanese style.

Spidey and tsushima are the "weakest" of the bunch (mostly because they use derivations of free flow from arkham) but they still smoke a lot of other games combat systems.

DG was fun, the hordes were fun, but let's be real it was poor man tlou, more arcadey and varied but with way worse gunplay and animations.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

I'd like them to mix it up with a FPS at some point.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

DG was fun, the hordes were fun, but let's be real it was poor man tlou, more arcadey and varied but with way worse gunplay and animations.

I guess I'm poor because I finished Days Gone twice but after 3 years of playing TLOU2 I'm yet to play as Abby.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

They’re all on par with Sony games, usually Sony stands out a bit more with graphics and animations but gameplay they are certainly up there too.

For hardcore gamers, I would disagree. The skill gap between Dark Souls or Nioh is much higher than what Sony brings to their games. Sony games definitely caters more to casual audiences. I'm not saying it is good or bad, just different. For your average gamer, a deeper combat system isn't necessarily a good thing

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Whenever I played Sekiro, it looked like a toddler stumbling, shitting themsekves and then rolling off a cliff.

 

[Shtof]

Horizon series are definitely the most underrated and unique.

The combination of incredible scope, huge depth in weapon variety and the myriad ways you can take down machines makes me think there really is nothing else like it.
What makes it so impressive is that unlike most games where you fight huge beasts, it doesn't feel grindy.
And it actually makes you feel like the hunter and not the hunted, while also being challenging.

 

[Fake]

I wouldn't call horizon combat good by any means. I don't think it's characteristic of sony's first party either, Spiderman and Ghost of the Tsushima are fantastic, but God of war and Returnal are just okay.

Besides the others Horizon Zero Dawn combat is really that bad.

My problem with God of War is that Santa Monica is really forgeting what make God of War good at begin with. The reboot of the combat with the Axe is really good, but gets repetitive really quick.

The lack of weapons in the newer God of War series is pathetic. Is a miracle the Blades of Chaos are still in the game.

 

[bitbydeath]

For hardcore gamers, I would disagree. The skill gap between Dark Souls or Nioh is much higher than what Sony brings to their games. Sony games definitely caters more to casual audiences. I'm not saying it is good or bad, just different. For your average gamer, a deeper combat system isn't necessarily a good thing

Sony caters for both but you do need to go on harder difficulties to appreciate it more.

 

[Puscifer]

You're 100% right, in fact a huge portion of my favorite combat systems are from Sony "exclusives".
However I've learning discussing these things on GAF only leads to an awful mood, and life's too short. I would stick to multiplatforms discussions.

You made me reconsider my opinion on God of War18/GoWR so dont back down

 

[Chuck Berry]

I think a lot of Sony first party games have really under rated combat options, and a lot of depth. I really don't think a lot of their games get the creit they are due. I attribute this to most players thinking of Sony games as single player games - basically you play it through on normal difficulty interact with a fair amount of the systems during your gameplay, complete the game and then shelf it. I think to get really explorre the depth you need to be one of those players who really engages with all facets of the combat, systems and mechanics. Most, if not all of their combat systems have a lot of options, support different gameplay styles and can be easy to use, but have so many layers of depth to actually master.

I was compelled to write this post after playing Spider-Man 2. While I am pretty bored of the 'endless waves', and finding the skills and abilities a bit overwhelming. But I'm starting to get a handle on them now (after being forced to tbh), and I was thinking of other games over the last few years that have been produced with the same underlying combat options. Stealth, combo, aggressive, passive, button masher, conservative and agressive playstyles all seem possible.

Am I mad, or is this a reasonable take? There seems ot be so many options, and I think they are games and systems where you get out what you put in. But if you choose to not, you're doing the combat design a disservice.

Where's Days Gone?

 

[Shtof]

Besides the others Horizon Zero Dawn combat is really that bad.

My problem with God of War is that Santa Monica is really forgeting what make God of War good at begin with. The reboot of the combat with the Axe is really good, but gets repetitive really quick.

The lack of weapons in the newer God of War series is pathetic. Is a miracle the Blades of Chaos are still in the game.

All those games are great, but if you think Horizon is in any manner worse I guess y'all just got filtered.

 

[Woggleman]

The first Horizon has great combat. The second one is okay but much of the time I just get batted around.

 

[cormack12]

Where's Days Gone?

I only put games I've finished on there lol. I only played the first hour or so in DG and never got the time to go back