Support NeoGAF

[hooijdonk17]

The year is 2015 and consoles still have an issue with fucking texture filtering, it makes me want to kick myself in the head.. On the one hand we have the underdog with good texture filtering, on the other hand we have the top dog with awful texture filtering..

Thank god for PCs.

 

[Lemondish]

It could be a PS4 architecture limit, or could be the SDRAM which helps Xbone with AF, thing is if PS4 can't fix it then suddenly 1080p vs 900p won't be enough to have the best version of games, AF is pretty more visible than a few pixels more

The year is 2015 and consoles still have an issue with fucking texture filtering, it makes me want to kick myself in the head.. On the one hand we have the underdog with good texture filtering, on the other hand we have the top dog with awful texture filtering..

Thank god for PCs.

Well, the year doesn't necessarily mean we aren't without bad developers.

Cort Stratton from ICE has spoken up about this awhile ago saying "No hardware/SDK issues that I’m aware of. Sounds like a question for the developer".

Not that this situation hasn't been discussed to death in the 50 other AF threads, but its neither the hardware nor the sdk. That leaves precious few other things to blame.

 

[DOWN]

Is there any way we can complain to Capcom for a patch on these? How did UBI know what stuff we wanted patched with Unity? Because I want Capcom going full speed on patches and feeling the heat for this?

 

[thelastword]

If the devs can fix it that means it shouldn't have shipped this way.

The fact that xbox one is a one click conversion due to using Dx can never be achieved since PS4 uses Open GL. Lazyness and lack of care from Devs are the cause of poor AF on PS4, you can't possibly blame Sony.

Now we just need Ninja Theory to patch DmC.

It looks like the power of the PS4 is working against it, devs simply port their code over and think it will run it fine anyway, when they could be optimizing for better framerate and ensuring a trvial thing like 16x AF is implemented.

Eh-hem, it's Qloc that needs to fix it, I'd say.

Qloc have been doing very sloppy work of late. USF4-PC, Xenoverse and DMC.

 

[geordiemp]

The year is 2015 and consoles still have an issue with fucking texture filtering, it makes me want to kick myself in the head.. On the one hand we have the underdog with good texture filtering, on the other hand we have the top dog with awful texture filtering..

Thank god for PCs.

Poor post. Some devs have a problem when porting games from DX and forgetting about AF.

Dying light has it patched now. Techland missed it.

Its not Sonys fault if some devs are crap (and I mean that, missing AF is in excusable)

 

[goonergaz]

Yeah, it has what appears to be 16x AF after the update.

They still haven't fixed the damn frame-rate cap, though, so indoor areas bounce back and forth between 60 (for a split second) and 30 fps.

lol, final nail in the 'PS4 has AF problem' coffin?

 

[geordiemp]

Is there any way we can complain to Capcom for a patch on these? How did UBI know what stuff we wanted patched with Unity? Because I want Capcom going full speed on patches and feeling the heat for this?

Juts don't buy it. If they cant be bothered to do basic game things (AF) and don't listen to their customers, then they don't deserve our money.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Poor post. Some devs have a problem when porting games from DX and forgetting about AF.

Dying light has it patched now. Techland missed it.

Its not Sonys fault if some devs are crap (and I mean that, missing AF is in excusable)

No one blamed sony; the console ecosystem in general is just completely fucked when it comes to delivering on IQ.

 

[Slaythe]

Juts don't buy it. If they cant be bothered to do basic game things (AF) and don't listen to their customers, then they don't deserve our money.

A great game deserve to be bought...

But I admit that seeing basic stuff like this and knowing it looks better on every other version including 360 for no reason is kind of ruining the enjoyment.

I mean we're talking about HD ports. Make it effing HD and shiny. You're not double dipping to get it worse. Obviously.

In the case of DmC it's still worth it but hell, that is a shame. Hope for a patch.

 

[DOWN]

Juts don't buy it. If they cant be bothered to do basic game things (AF) and don't listen to their customers, then they don't deserve our money.

But I would eventually like to play these on PS4 and definitely won't buy them on XB1. I want patches.

 

[Nabbis]

Echoing some other here, it's 2015 for fucks sake. I don't care why/how AF is bad. Stop this shit.

 

[c0de]

It looks like the power of the PS4 is working against it, devs simply port their code over and think it will run it fine anyway, when they could be optimizing for better framerate and ensuring a trvial thing like 16x AF is implemented.

PS4 has too much power? That's at least original.

 

[c0de]

lol, final nail in the 'PS4 has AF problem' coffin?

Depends on future games and the reason why some games aren't patched/didn't ship with AF.

 

[biglittleps]

But I would eventually like to play these on PS4 and definitely won't buy them on XB1. I want patches.

let them know in twitter for a patch and tell them will buy once it's patched. More people report then we get patch soon.

 

[BokehKing]

Umm, AF is super noticeable. You're generally always looking where it should be implemented. Why even bother with decent resolution textures if that's your stance since you won't notice the difference or decent shadows, lighting and poly count? or anything?

Because some people look at a game, thinks it looks good and then just does not see the issue, the x1 and ps4 versions look the same to me, and the only deciding factor on what system I'll buy it on, probably only depends on which of the 2 systems u have powered on at the moment.


720 vs 1080 is the only jarring thing that matters to me, that's something I notoce

This? To someone like me, is reaching (though u do understand the fine tooth comb crowd has every reason to be upset)

 

[DOWN]

Did Ninja Theory handle the port themselves?

 

[goonergaz]

Depends on future games and the reason why some games aren't patched/didn't ship with AF.

lol, clearly there's a API issue that needs some work - either devs miss it or don't bother because they didn't think it was important...there's no AF issue on PS4 that means a game can't have it

 

[AzureSkies]

Because some people look at a game, thinks it looks good and then just does not see the issue, the x1 and ps4 versions look the same to me, and the only deciding factor on what system I'll buy it on, probably only depends on which of the 2 systems u have powered on at the moment.


720 vs 1080 is the only jarring thing that matters to me, that's something I notoce

This? To someone like me, is reaching (though u do understand the fine tooth comb crowd has every reason to be upset)

no

bad anisotropic filtering isn't reaching, it's something that isn't even acceptable in this day and age when it's barely even taxing on the GPU.

 

[Yoshi]

We now know that the lack of AF on ps4 is lazyness, bad QA letting it slip, or done on purpose to make the xbox one version look better.

First, please inform me, why we know it cannot be a problem with the SDK making it difficult to implement AF on PS4? Also, your last point is incredibly ridiculous and you should be ashamed for writing that.

 

[hooijdonk17]

First, please inform me, why we know it cannot be a problem with the SDK making it difficult to implement AF on PS4? Also, your last point is incredibly ridiculous and you should be ashamed for writing that.

It's probably a DX->OGL porting issue that gets introduced somewhere in the porting process, and considering it's prevalent in all XBOX led development efforts I'd assume it's either in the PS SDK or the engine tools.

 

[Yoshi]

It's probably a DX->OGL porting issue that gets introduced somewhere in the porting process, and considering it's prevalent in all XBOX led development efforts I'd assume it's either in the PS SDK or the engine tools.

This is also what I think is likely, but it's not matching the reasons I cited.

 

[c0de]

It's probably a DX->OGL porting issue that gets introduced somewhere in the porting process, and considering it's prevalent in all XBOX led development efforts I'd assume it's either in the PS SDK or the engine tools.

PS4 doesn't use OGL.

 

[Isurus]

Because some people look at a game, thinks it looks good and then just does not see the issue, the x1 and ps4 versions look the same to me, and the only deciding factor on what system I'll buy it on, probably only depends on which of the 2 systems u have powered on at the moment.


720 vs 1080 is the only jarring thing that matters to me, that's something I notoce

This? To someone like me, is reaching (though u do understand the fine tooth comb crowd has every reason to be upset)

Interesting. I find the lack of AF to be just as noticeable. 1080p doesn't do much for me if it is a blur fest on the texture side, which a lack of AF turns into for some games.

 

[hooijdonk17]

PS4 doesn't use OGL.

True, Ps4 uses a proprietary API and SL right? My bad (might still be related to OpenGL though, can't remember); regardless, it's probably an export/port problem between DirectX/PS4 API, which points to either the engine or SDK, in either case.

 

[c0de]

True, Ps4 uses a proprietary API and SL right? My bad (might still be related to OpenGL though, can't remember); regardless, it's probably an export/port problem between DirectX/PS4 API, which points to either the engine or SDK, in either case.

I provided a link earlier to Eurogamer where devs explicitely say that GNMX is way worse than GNM.

 

[dr_rus]

You think it's only these two options? Btw, AF is not "flipping a switch" and it doesn't make any sense in a multiplatform game where the better hardware lacks a feature the inferior hardware has. But the fallback option of course is of course money, yes.

AF is flipping a switch. It's just that you can either flip it globally for everything or per some textures separately. Second option is more work but let you save some couple percents of performance by not using AF on textures which don't need it. For titles like DmC ported from the previous gen you should be able to just turn AF on for all textures with no problems.

 

[thelastword]

NXGAMER ANALYSIS:

I'm even more wary of DF's framerate analyses now. The PS4 version is indeed the better performer, XB1 tears frequently to keep it's framerate up and when there's heavy alpha effects on screen xbox does not keep up. PS4 is basically 60fps consistently.

 

[blue wing viper]

I would take 900p over this:

Exactly and this is the problem. The benefits of 1080p are basically nullified if your game has poor AF and blurry textures. Why you may ask?? Because a 1080 resolution in cases like this is ACCENTUATING the visual short comings and showing just how poor the AF and textures are...that's why.

Bottom line:
900p w/good AF&textures>>1080p with last gen AF&textures

At least for me because those blurry shots where even the PS3 has better AF is disgusting and atrocious. Indeed it looks broken. That's how bad it is. I don't know how people stomach that.

 

[geordiemp]

Exactly and this is the problem.

At least for me because those blurry shots where even the PS3 has better AF is disgusting and atrocious. Indeed it looks broken. That's how bad it is. I don't know how people stomach that.

We don't, I put it in my shit developer does not deserve my money pile. No excuses.

 

[Conduit]

NXGAMER ANALYSIS:

I'm even more wary of DF's framerate analyses now. The PS4 version is indeed the better performer, XB1 tears frequently to keep it's framerate up and when there's heavy alpha effects on screen xbox does not keep up. PS4 is basically 60fps consistently.

How DF framerate analysis is different from NXGAMER framerate analysis?

 

[thelastword]

How DF framerate analysis is different from NXGAMER framerate analysis?

DF gets so much wrong that it's not even funny. They were more interested in posting an article stating that the xbone version had better AF and image quality over the PS4 (which is true) and that it was better overall over the vanilla PC version (which is also true), that they got quite a few details wrong due to all that excitement. Some parts of that article read really strangely, just one example..Df said that the xbone has better AA, but says the PS4 version is using a more aggressive form of the same PPAA method the XBONE uses, bonkers.

As for the framerate bit, I stopped taking DF's frame-rate analysis seriously a long time ago, they do too little frame runs, they're very selective of the bits of framerun data they use and it never gives an accurate picture. They almost always say something entirely different in their article than what the frametests indicate. They're almost always wrong on the minimum framerate in their own videos. If you're getting so much wrong on the low end then the final analysis is most likely wrong as well.

The analysis that really did it for me was FARCRY 4, it's not the only one, but one of the most blatant, the xbone drops frames so much in heavy foliage and just randomly traversing the environment (and this game is mostly jungle areas) yet they claimed the framerate was better on the XBONE with a very selective video.

So I always wait on NXGAMER to see how it goes against theirs, his videos are more accurate based on how long he lets the frame-tests run whilst also pointing to you the differences in framerate and the problem areas if they exist. DF never pointed out that the xbone struggles a bit more with heavy alpha on the screen in DMC, NXgamer not only showed you where that happened but also how more consistently the PS4 version run in comparison. Nxgamer showed you that the xbone tears more to keep framerate up and even then the PS4 outperforms it while holding it's vysnc. It's not rocket science, he showed all these things with objective data and we know logically it makes sense because a better GPU will always outclass the xbone at the same resolution, we've already seen it outclass the xbone with more effects at a higher resolution too.

I trust Nxgamer's analysis because it's factual, it's logical, everything is corroborated with empirical evidence.


At this point, all that needs to happen is that this game gets patched with 16xAF from the devs and they can call it a wrap.

 

[Mr Moose]

As for the framerate bit, I stopped taking DF's frame-rate analysis seriously a long time ago, they do too little frame runs, they're very selective of the bits of framerun data they use and it never gives an accurate picture. They almost always say something entirely different in their article than what the frametests indicate. They're almost always wrong on the minimum framerate in their own videos. If you're getting so much wrong on the low end then the final analysis is most likely wrong as well.

I noticed that in their BF Hardline thing. They said minimum was 44, in the first 2 minutes of their video it had dropped to 42 twice, and 38 within 3 minutes (though the bar shows above 38).

 

[barit]

DF tries to push the idea that Fps are overall better on Xbone than on PS4 for quite some time now. It all began with GTA5 iirc and ended with false information about AC5, FarCry4 and other games. I think NXgamer was the one who always came to a different conclusion like AC5 which has identical Fps performance on booth platforms after the latest patch.

 

[i-Lo]

DF tries to push the idea that Fps are overall better on Xbone than on PS4 for quite some time now. It all began with GTA5 iirc and ended with false information about AC5, FarCry4 and other games. I think NXgamer was the one who always came to a different conclusion like AC5 which has identical Fps performance on booth platforms after the latest patch.

Someone correct me if I am mistaken but aren't they in someway funded in part by MS?

 

[Dictator93]

Someone correct me if I am mistaken but aren't they in someway funded in part by MS?

I have never heard this.

 

[i-Lo]

I have never heard this.

I remember reading about some contract between MS and DF's parent company a long time ago. Like I said, I could very well be mistaken or what I read was untrue.

 

[Dictator93]

I remember reading about some contract between MS and DF's parent company a long time ago. Like I said, I could very well be mistaken or what I read was untrue.

Well that is how scuttle butt / conspiracy theories start. People off-quote non-existing information to fit some sort of narrative. Then everyone starts referencing it and seeing it as true.

I would not think much of it, nor would I respect any claim in this thread that DF has a "thing" against the PS4. The technical findings of a DF article have little to no bearing on what the average consumer thinks, it just leads to interesting conversation or war materiell for the warriors. Why would microsoft astro-turf a small tech analysis portion of a larger website?

 

[Oneself]

Flooding Ninja Theory instead of Capcom about AF might help the PS4 version's situation... I guess they care about their product more than Capcom does.

 

[Ran rp]

Pretty damn lazy honestly.

Or maybe they didn't have time to fix it before launch?

And you're calling them lazy after the fact that they took time out post-launch to fix the issue?

 

[AsylumBlue]

NXGAMER ANALYSIS:

I'm even more wary of DF's framerate analyses now. The PS4 version is indeed the better performer, XB1 tears frequently to keep it's framerate up and when there's heavy alpha effects on screen xbox does not keep up. PS4 is basically 60fps consistently.

Yeah, NX has replaced DF for me (not entirely, but mostly).

 

[Arttemis]

Or maybe they didn't have time to fix it before launch?

And you're calling them lazy after the fact that they took time out post-launch to fix the issue?

The 16x AF patch is already implemented in DmC for PS4?

 

[BumRush]

very disappointed in sony at the moment, a console that has a much better GPU and better better Ram set up made for gaming, should never lose a faceoff to the XB1. Microsoft developer tools must be much better then sony's at the moment.

Did Sony develop this game?

 

[StevieP]

So DF is funded by Microsoft and almost every dev is bad and lazy. Happy Saturday everyone

 

[Arttemis]

So DF is funded by Microsoft and almost every dev is bad and lazy. Happy Saturday everyone

I know, right! I can't believe everyone is blaming developers - as if it's their fault and not publishers holding then hostage to timetables and dictating their amount of QA/QC and debugging.

There is strong evidence that DF, or at least Leadbetter, exhibits bias against the PS4 in speculative assumptions. Whether it's driven by desire for clicks or otherwise, I can't say.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

It could be a PS4 architecture limit, or could be the SDRAM which helps Xbone with AF, thing is if PS4 can't fix it then suddenly 1080p vs 900p won't be enough to have the best version of games, AF is pretty more visible than a few pixels more

I'll still turn down effects in my games to achieve 1080p.

 

[barit]

Someone correct me if I am mistaken but aren't they in someway funded in part by MS?

I think you mean Polygon which got 750k from MS to make a "documentry"

But they have nothing to do with Eurogamer aka Digital Foundry

 

[NIGHT-]

I'll take better af over low screen tearing. The lack of AF looks very noticeable

 

[i-Lo]

Well that is how scuttle butt / conspiracy theories start. People off-quote non-existing information to fit some sort of narrative. Then everyone starts referencing it and seeing it as true.

I would not think much of it, nor would I respect any claim in this thread that DF has a "thing" against the PS4. The technical findings of a DF article have little to no bearing on what the average consumer thinks, it just leads to interesting conversation or war materiell for the warriors. Why would microsoft astro-turf a small tech analysis portion of a larger website?

While I concur with your ramifications of unfounded allegations, it is irksome to discover inconsistencies between DF's findings and the findings of another source to the point where one can either call the comparisons half baked or selective.

Personally, I only have issue with Leadbetter's analysis that includes his personal interjections which ought not to be a part of technical appraisals and certain conclusions that do not fully reflect the findings of preceding paragraphs.

That said, I am glad that DF are now trying to push to get answers about PS4's AF issue; paying customers deserve to know the truth.

I think you mean Polygon which got 750k from MS to make a "documentry"

But they have nothing to do with Eurogamer aka Digital Foundry

Ah, now I remember..... thanks for rectification.

Or maybe they didn't have time to fix it before launch?

And you're calling them lazy after the fact that they took time out post-launch to fix the issue?

Has this issue been resolved since launch?

 

[Mastperf]

The only Digital Foundry member I trust 100% is dark10x. I've been on Gaming Age for over 15 years now and he's been the most reliable person for eyeing technical problems I've ever seen on here. That being said, some of the analysis from other DF members have been less reliable imo. The Far Cry 4 face-off in particular was off from what NXGamer showed, and from what other forum members had experienced. I recall the NXGamer Unity video after the update showed different frame-rate results than DF led people to believe. I'm not saying they have a bias or anything like that, but there's certainly an argument to be made that they aren't as thorough as they need to be. Minimum and maximum frame-rate's are important but really only give a vague idea of overall performance. I would really like to see more sites pop up to give similar in-depth analysis.

 

[DannyDanger]

So why don't we start posting performance threads including NXgamer along with DF?