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[theBishop]

Lair wasn't as horrible as everyone made it out to be. It had a few frustrating elements to it but the controls was rather easy for the most part. I learned them within an hour.

It wasn't "as horrible as everyone made it out to be" (i.e. it didn't cause physical harm), but I still wouldn't recommend anyone spend money on it.

 

[morlock]

Sony should fund a next gen TURRICAN from F5!

 

[MassiveAttack]

Bummer. Good luck to these guys.

What a crappy time to be dealing with this sort of stuff.

You can thank Brash Entertainment for creating a great deal of the current mess. What a phenomenal "$400M" con job that turned out to be.

 

[Haunted]

He deleted the first post that 1up used for their story. I'm guessing he just started blogging. I mean, everyone's gotta start somewhere.

And what better way to start with an entry entirely depending on a previous entry for context and meaning!

 

[PotatoeMasher]

Original post, for the new page:

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2008

More Raining, More Pouring...
Snowballing like crazy.

So I figure I'm at liberty to talk about how my company is doing, because it's really not confidential, and it's part of my industry experience. I feel I'm obligated to share my stories with others interested in getting into this field, so here goes:

When I came back from The Orphanage, I find out no one at Factor 5 had been paid in a month.... and we weren't going to any time soon. It was incredibly lucky that I got the Orphan gig when I did, or else I would have been in deeper shit than I am right now. Anyway, regardless of the financial issues of the company (which I won't elaborate on), we all stayed and continued to work. If we left, there would have been no hope in F5 staying afloat. We had faith in the projects and the company, so there was no reason to bail just yet. At this time it didn't seem like much more than bad timing and bad luck.

Then we lost health care. Ok, who needs it? If we're going to eventually be paid, some sacrifices would be worth it. I had my own on the side, so I wasn't sweating it. Then things turned bad...





Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production. Unfortunately I was finally having a ton of fun working on it and we had made such insane progress that this was a total kick to the chest. It was basically like saying "the work you've been doing for the last 8 months has been all for none, but thanks anyway." After that news, moral was definitely not the greatest. We figured it wasn't a problem, however, because there were other projects that needed us, and we still had work to do. So then...





The president of the company basically told us that if we didn't receive funding in 1 week, all of us should move on and look elsewhere for another job. I had no idea how bad this economy was getting until something like this affected me personally, and yea, it sucks. I have 1 more week left at Factor 5. Financially it won't be the end of the world for me, but I really need to work on my reel and find a new gig fast. I wish the best for all my coworkers. They've been great fun to work with, and this last year has certainly been an amazing experience that I will always remember. I've learned a ton, gotten way faster and organized, and I feel like I've grown as an artist/professional because of the people I've met and the challenging yet sometimes stressful situations I've been a part of.

Til next time!
- Sam
POSTED BY MISTASAM AT 7:35 PM 0 COMMENTS

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache...istasam.blogspot.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

 

[Azar]

Yeah, while it's not hard to believe the 1UP post got it wrong or didn't know the full story, it's even harder to accept a blog post from a source that seems to be completely void of identity.

EDIT: Seems like he probably panicked and was afraid he'd get in trouble for posting that once it got picked up by 1UP and trashed it.

 

[FrankT]

I don't know, that sounds pretty accurate actually.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

Yeah, while it's not hard to believe the 1UP post got it wrong or didn't know the full story, it's even harder to accept a blog post from a source that seems to be completely void of identity.

After reading the Google cached version of the guy's blog, the 1up report seems spot on to me.

 

[Linkup]

whatever the case bring on RS4

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Factor 5 should be beating down Nintendo's door to make a StarFox game. They are probably the best suited to bring the series back. They've always been a great contender to be a 2nd party studio. Maybe now is a good time for them to reconsider that option.

Actually, that's quite a great idea.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, I agree. 1up looks like it has it right. He says right there that his work was for nothing, not that they'd keep working and look for a new publisher.

 

[jett]

Along with that funding they should consider procuring talented game designers.

 

[Mario]

You think cheaper download games might benefit from the slump? I'm going to be catching up on late 08 games well into next summer (Fallout3, Fable2, Gears2, Mirror's Edge, etc). It would be kinda cool to see these games get a 2nd marketing wind while PSN/XBLA/WiiWare games make up the bulk of new releases.

I'm not sure existing or near release downloadable games will see an increase over this short term period as they too are subject to the same competition. With retail games being scaled back for the next year, they may see some longer term benefits.

However, I do see a shift towards digital distribution over time which will allow developers and publishers to avoid some of the "limitations" of retail such as limited availability, unsold stock, and aggressive commercial used game sales etc. I would expect to see a lot of smaller games going into production in favour of epic titles in the next year too in order to better manage risk.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

So Lair killed them off then.

 

[Narcosis]

Ugh...

Why, after the horrid state of the last few F5 games, does anyone want them anywhere near a Starfox revival?

 

[Deleted member 284]

pretty sure they coined "gamecube 1.5"

http://kotaku.com/gaming/nintendo/factor-5-dont-jive-with-wii-210512.php

Ahh, forgot about that.

While the technical aspect of the comment may be true, I really, really wonder if that comment is currently biting them in the ass. And not necessarily from Nintendo themselves.

 

[bistromathics]

Now you have me looking on youtube for footage. I liked that game but a lot of people say it was bad?

Only the parts after Hoth.

 

[jett]

Ugh...

Why, after the horrid state of the last few F5 games, does anyone want them anywhere near a Starfox revival?

Yeah I don't get this either. It's like some misplaced Star Wars fanboyism is making people believe these guys make good games. That plus graphics whoreism, I guess.

I'd say that last truly good game they made was Super Turrican II...13 years ago. The original Rogue Squadron was decent...10 years ago. Nearly every other game that came after that(except an Indiana Jones port) followed the same blueprint. Even a dragon-flying game. To me it means that whoever directs their games has a serious case of non-talent.

 

[theBishop]

Yeah I don't get this either. It's like some misplaced Star Wars fanboyism is making people believe these guys make good games. That plus graphics whoreism, I guess.

Heh... I don't think it's Star Wars fanboyism...

 

[jett]

Heh... I don't think it's Star Wars fanboyism...

Yeah there's that, too.

 

[Roude Leiw]

rogue squadron with todays graphics, 64 players, online. i hope they are working on that.

 

[[Nintex]]

Yeah I don't get this either. It's like some misplaced Star Wars fanboyism is making people believe these guys make good games. That plus graphics whoreism, I guess.

I'd say that last truly good game they made was Super Turrican II...13 years ago. The original Rogue Squadron was decent...10 years ago. Nearly every other game that came after that(except an Indiana Jones port) followed the same blueprint. Even a dragon-flying game. To me it means that whoever directs their games has a serious case of non-talent.

Heh... I don't think it's Star Wars fanboyism...

You guys may have a point, but Rogue Leader was a great game when it was released. The gameplay didn't age well and when they managed to fuck up the Rogue Squadron formula in Rebel Strike I lost interested in Factor 5 games. I still recommend it for the 2 player Rogue Leader co-op though.

 

[Woo-Fu]

How many Rogue Squadron reskins do we really need?

 

[Deku]

They made the Battle of Hoth into a videogame staple almost singlehandedly.


.

Although... wasn't the game Sony-funded? In that case, Factor 5 should've gotten their money regardless of the game's sales. Maybe Sony cancelled their rumoured 3-game contract after Lair bombed, and that's part of the problem? Gah, who knows. I hate this shit, companies going under. Good companies, whose games I've played since the late 80's.

Credit crisis. Banks are not lending on risky projects so as a dev you pretty much have to get funding from a publisher, who in term have to get their funding from a bank or generate it themselves.

The big 3 all have funds to to this, but outside of the hardware manufacturers and perhaps EA and Activision Blizzard, it's hard to see where these funds will be coming from.

 

[Sinatar]

Isn't this part of the fallout from Brash closing down. Factor 5 was making a Superman game for them that is presumably the game that got cut.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

How many Rogue Squadron reskins do we really need?

this is what I was going to post. They should have known without the star wars brand ppl would see through their shitty game design

 

[Zenith]

Much as I look down games journalists they were right this time.

Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production. Unfortunately I was finally having a ton of fun working on it and we had made such insane progress that this was a total kick to the chest. It was basically like saying "the work you've been doing for the last 8 months has been all for none, but thanks anyway." After that news, moral was definitely not the greatest. We figured it wasn't a problem, however, because there were other projects that needed us, and we still had work to do. So then...

first point: "stop production". not just the publisher dropping them as the guy claimed in his retcon post.

second point: "has all been for none". as in they're not just pausing development, they're scrapping it completely.

third point: "other projects that needed us". they could transfer to other teams because the team they were on no longer existed.

Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production.

This does not mean that we’ve stopped production on that game

Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production.

This does not mean that we’ve stopped production on that game

Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production.

This does not mean that we’ve stopped production on that game

Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production.

This does not mean that we’ve stopped production on that game

1UP should take post his original blog for all to see and then force his denials down the sumbitch's throat.

 

[Gaborn]

Factor 5 made a bad bet on going with the PS3. Had they gone multiplatform or stuck with Nintendo, they'd be in a much stronger position.

This. Although Lair itself was a flawed and bad game that generally would have tanked on any platform, Factor 5's choice of developing it on PS3 meant even more of it's assets were devoted to it being a success. On Wii or even to a lesser extent 360 development costs would have been lower for a similar game (on Wii significantly so) therefore it could have afforded modest success more easily.

 

[Zilch]

It looks like he edited the existing blog post since it was posted in this thread.

He took out this part:

Factor 5 is not going under, and I don’t know why Steve Watts quoted me saying so. Don’t believe every rumor that is posted on the internet, especially if it has been spun to create a story that is far from the truth.

and replaced it with this:

I removed my blog because it contained information that easy to misinterpret. I'm not, nor have I ever been in contact with 1up and was not a direct source for their article. Sorry for the confusion.

Maybe you can't read too much into the edit, but now he doesn't directly refute the claim that Factor 5 is going under.

 

[Kinv]

Next-gen Rogue squadron plz that isn't the same godam levels re-done over and over again, there's plenty of Star Wars material to use for Rogue Squadron or pull a KoToR. Hell give us Prequel levels or something. (A rogue squadron game playing through all the differant Rogue Squadron books would be amazing)

 

[MassiveAttack]

Isn't this part of the fallout from Brash closing down. Factor 5 was making a Superman game for them that is presumably the game that got cut.

This.

 

[Y2Kev]

This. Although Lair itself was a flawed and bad game that generally would have tanked on any platform, Factor 5's choice of developing it on PS3 meant even more of it's assets were devoted to it being a success. On Wii or even to a lesser extent 360 development costs would have been lower for a similar game (on Wii significantly so) therefore it could have afforded modest success more easily.

No. Sony had a multigame deal with Factor 5, so all of the project was paid for by the publisher. The issue is that LAIR was so bad, Sony chose to opt out of/cancelled the contract. Sony paid for LAIR...literally and figuratively.

And now Factor 5 is paying for it.

Sony bet on the wrong horse. Poor sony. :'(

Factor 5 is so crappy they got partnered with Brash entertainment. I mean lolz.

 

[Gaborn]

No. Sony had a multigame deal with Factor 5, so all of the project was paid for by the publisher. The issue is that LAIR was so bad, Sony chose to opt out of/cancelled the contract. Sony paid for LAIR...literally and figuratively.

And now Factor 5 is paying for it.

Sony bet on the wrong horse. Poor sony. :'(

Factor 5 is so crappy they got partnered with Brash entertainment. I mean lolz.

Ok then, yeah, you're right, in that case poor Sony (though at the same time many developers do say that the PS3 is particularly difficult to develop for, not that that excuses ANYTHING about the quality of that game).

 

[Mau ®]

Werent they developing a PSN game?

BTW going PS3-only if you are third party may not be good. But going second party with any of the big three is always a good thing, your ass is covered while you're under contract. I hear Sony is a really good publisher to work with.

 

[donny2112]

* I still like Factor 5.
* Rebel Strike was very good.
* Shadows of the Empire was a great and fun game for December 1996, and I still find it mostly fun.
* Lair would've been accepted easier if it were made for Wii because 1) Rebel Strike+ graphics would be praised on the Wii, 2) Motion control is expected on the Wii, and 3) Nintendo gamers generally have a soft spot for Factor 5 (at least they did before they went to the PS3 for Lair).
* The economy could be good for Wii development if it means companies have to try to capture a bigger piece of the Wii audience for a given title for acceptable ROI. 'Bout time. :lol

 

[Black-Wind]

They talked down the 360?

This is as fare as I could find (in 2 secs of google searching . . . ended up on go nintendo)

GI: What are your thoughts on the Wii?

Eggebrecht: I love it, absolutely. I mean, I love it as much as the PS3. When I read all of those things about how you have to buy a 360 and a Wii, that’s not true. You have to buy a PS3 and a Wii—that’s the perfect combination.

GI: So why Sony and not Microsoft?

Eggebrecht: On the technology front, there is simply more vision at Sony. By now, there’s now more—if not more, at least equal—vision on the online front. I have to say that. When we talked to Sony and Microsoft at the time, Microsoft was very determined and they delivered very nicely on what they wanted to do with the 360. But even back then, there was the, “Well, 1080p? Well, we don’t know about that. Real high-definition? You know what? Let’s do 720p for the games, mostly.” And they’re doing catch up right now, and they’re doing it quite cleverly. But nevertheless, in the early days you had that as a vibe of the system. What was a killer for me was no HDMI. We had huge fights with Microsoft basically going back and forth about, “Please, please, please, please put an HDMI port in there, because only then can you really see the graphics,” and they said, “No, we’re designing the whole graphics chip around being analog.” And they’re retrofitting it now, trying to catch up with the PS3. But all of that vision was there, right from day one, with the PS3. That was very encouraging. Kutaragi-san, in that sense, is on the technology front, and I don’t think anyone would contest that it’s still the greatest visionary in the industry. So, it made it easy. Sony was the clear-cut, perfect match.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200702/N07.0208.1857.43468.htm?Page=1

They also said that the processing speed of the 360 wasn't good enuff to do the "realistic" graphics they wanted to do which is why LAIR was PS3 only. . .

 

[theBishop]

* I still like Factor 5.
* Rebel Strike was very good.
* Shadows of the Empire was a great and fun game for December 1996, and I still find it mostly fun.
* Lair would've been accepted easier if it were made for Wii because 1) Rebel Strike+ graphics would be praised on the Wii, 2) Motion control is expected on the Wii, and 3) Nintendo gamers generally have a soft spot for Factor 5 (at least they did before they went to the PS3 for Lair).
* The economy could be good for Wii development if it means companies have to try to capture a bigger piece of the Wii audience for a given title for acceptable ROI. 'Bout time. :lol

I love everything about this post.

 

[-Rogue5-]

I wonder if it's actually due to the bad economy or the fact that Lair sucked ass. I mean, how many copies did it sell? 100,000? Wasn't it a moderately expensive, next-gen title?

 

[EatChildren]

If true shouldn’t this immediate squash any and all Kid Icarus rumours? (Assuming there were any left)

As if Nintendo would not fund the development for one of their own franchises. If Factor5 were working on a Kid Icarus Wii they’d be financially sound for at least that project until it was either completed, or Nintendo scrapped it and told them to go fuck themselves.

 

[SnakeXs]

I wonder if it's actually due to the bad economy or the fact that Lair sucked ass. I mean, how many copies did it sell? 100,000? Wasn't it a moderately expensive, next-gen title?

Economy or not, Lair bombing had everything to do with it. Even if a publisher/company is strapped for cash, don't you think they'd be quicker to invest in something not coming right off a major bomb?

 

[The-Switcher]

Developer Factor 5 is facing tough choices due to Lair, according to a blog post from Sam Baker, an animator for the company. Baker explains that after a two-week foray into working on Lair, with California-based animation studio The Orphanage, he came back to Factor 5 and found that none of his fellow employees had been paid for their work on Lair. His team continued on their current project, but then had their health care benefits taken as a cost-saving measure because of Lair.

Next, the company told employees that they had to shutter the current project due to insufficient funds because of Lair. "We figured it wasn't a problem, however, because there were still other projects that needed us," he said. But most recently, Baker claims that Factor 5 president Julian Eggebrecht told the employees that they need funding in a week, or employees may need to start looking for other jobs because of Lair. This might be because of lair, so without official comment from the company we'll file it as a rumor for now. We can hope that the situation isn't as dire as it sounds but since Lair hit retail shelves, Factor 5 may need to start letting go of employees within the next week.

Baker doesn't mention any of the projects the company had in the pipeline, but we know that the company was working on a Wii title, rumored to be a new entry in the Rogue Squadron series, or a revival of the SNES classic Pilotwings. Factor 5's last big game was Lair, which was received harshly by critics due to everything. The company has been known for pushing hardware, so fans hoped the next game would showcase their skills. Unfortunately, due to Lair, they may never get the chance. We'll keep you posted as we learn more.

Fixed.

 

[basik]

there was a petition awhile ago for factor 5 to make wii games and it was right after lair was released and the npd from that month had just come out and I wrote something like "support the wii or go bankrupt"...guess I was right.

 

[anotherworld]

1st Midway now F5.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Uh oh: http://kotaku.com/5078488/brash-hit-by-lay-offs-kills-game

Earlier this week we heard rumblings that movie-game publisher Brash Entertainment was hit with massive lay-offs and struggling to stay afloat. Citing tough economic times, Brash confirmed to Kotaku that they have indeed instituted a "cost reduction plan" but say they're not going under.

More than 20 people have been let go across multiple departments, according to a Brash spokesperson.

Affected by this move will also be the closing of some open positions that the company had planned to fill this fiscal year. Employees affected by this action will receive severance and extended benefits. Brash Entertainment will continue to strategically work on its business including the upcoming release of Six Flags Fun Park for the Wii scheduled for this December, and a video game based on the SAW movie franchise for release in 2009.

Variety is reporting that the struggling developer's problems go much deeper.

According to the story that ran early this morning, Brash is working with studios to return licenses or sell them to other publishers. They've also stopped paying developers.

Variety also reports that the company has canned Superman which it was working on with Factor 5.

Tough times all around, it seems.

 

[GashPrex]

betting on the wrong horse + long development time + letdown + economy = trouble

 

[Johann]

I wonder if it's actually due to the bad economy or the fact that Lair sucked ass. I mean, how many copies did it sell? 100,000? Wasn't it a moderately expensive, next-gen title?

I remember Factor 5's GDC presentation on next-gen game development had the game around $12 million (Rouge Squadron 2 was $4.5 million IIRC).

Interestingly enough, we had noticed that their projected threshold of a 'AAA' blockbuster game was $15 million.

 

[Mau ®]

The only one that got hurt financially by LAIR was Sony. F5 got 15 million to develop the game, that must've covered the studio for a while.

 

[dionysus]

*Sits in his armchair*

I've been thinking about this. I don't think the economy plays that big a role, after all so far gaming has still proven to be immune to recession.

I think there is just a smaller role in the market place for independent developers. HD development especially. Think about it, right now HD gaming is built upon tent pole releases, much like the movie industry. If you have a bomb of a tent pole release, like Lair was, who is going to take the financial risk to fund you to make another expensive game. An internal studio for a publisher can probably survive a bomb on a tent pole game, they will shuffle people around, maybe lay off key people, but a publisher is more likely to give an internal team a second chance as they have already invested a ton of money in that team.

But an independent developer is a mercenary, and no one is going to sink money into a mercenary that currently has a bad rep. Rumors are already flying around about Silicon Knights as well. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep seeing independent developers fold after producing a game that underperforms. There is just no room for failure anymore in that business model.

 

[Brashnir]

Damn, all this bad news about the industry.

I've been working on my stuff to break into the industry but it seems at this point with so many other, more proven people looking for work i dont stand a chance.


That's harsh having to cut peoples health and pay out.

This is good news for the industry. Developers putting huge budgets into shitty projects deserve to fail. The only way the industry will be averted from this terrible business model is to have bad ideas punished.

It's unfortunate for the guys in the trenches who lose their jobs for these kinds of bad decisions, but it's healthy for the industry.

 

[Mifune]

*Sits in his armchair*

I've been thinking about this. I don't think the economy plays that big a role, after all so far gaming has still proven to be immune to recession.

Midway layoffs, EA layoffs, and now Factor 5 likely going belly up, and you think this has little to do with the economy.

The whole idea of gaming being recession proof is unfortunately a myth. Maybe sales will still be okay but developers will be hit hard. The gaming industry as we know it has not seen a recession like this before.

Stop thinking the entire economy will go to shit and games will continue to chug along like nothing happened. It's an incredibly naive view.