Bethesda's only saving grace is their slow turnaround on games. If they released yearly Fallout games the series would be even deader than Assassin's Creed.
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Fallout 4's writing is really problematic
- Thread starter Y2Kev
- Start date
Bethesda's only saving grace is their slow turnaround on games. If they released yearly Fallout games the series would be even deader than Assassin's Creed.
I agree with everything OP said and most of this thread. My biggest disappointment was that the game didn't make me feel like I was actually making choices, but rather than I was selecting one of four paths and then seeing how it played out. In essence, I wanted to make my own movie and instead I went to Blockbuster and all they had were 4 movies in stock. And then those four movies turn out to be action war flicks when all I wanted was a political drama.
semiconscious
Member
that's all i really care about with these games (& i'd say very good lore), so the other stuff, weak as it is, doesn't really bother me. the interesting/entertaining side missions, & the multiple stories, told via terminals & holotapes, were more than enough to guarantee me a great time. it's unfortunate that the main narrative sucks, but we seem to be stuck in the 'age of main narratives sucking' at this point
...TylerDurden4321
Member
This year's AC is really good, my favorite (and I played all except Unity, even if not always all the way through). I wouldn't have found out, had I not gotten the game with my new graphics card a few months back, almost didn't want to use the code, because I was tired of it.
This "games whose formula would be dead if they were annual releases" should have its own thread (didn't check if it already has).
Brilliant comparison!
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yep. At least in Skyrim the story you were presented with was one with clear-cut motivations and a singular goal. When you open up the game world to choice, that choice should to matter in more than a superficial way. The pacing in that game felt better, too, unlike FO4 where if you're doing anything other than looking for your son it feels wrong.
My experience: 50 hours in, I'm expected to make some big philosophical decision regarding synthetic life. Despite having come across synths for 50 hours, I, the player, need more info regarding their artificial intelligence and organic components to be able to draw a conclusion. I meet someone who would be able to answer a lot of these questions. I see the 'triangle' option in the dialogue option is 'Synths?'. Good, maybe I'll be able to dig deeper into this issue.
Idiot Dad: 'S-synths? What's a synth? You mean those robots?' (paraphrased)
God. Fucking. Dammit.
Even worse is how you just can't have the conversations you need with each faction to color in the grey spaces. For example, with
from the Institute, the first things I wanted to ask him, the only things that matter, were
I'm not done, but so far I'm utterly in the dark about all of that. And it makes picking a side a total nonsense. Therefore I'm inclined to go BoS and just nuke the whole fucking thing from orbit. Which is an easy decision to make when you find yourself simply not giving a shit.
Idiot Dad: 'S-synths? What's a synth? You mean those robots?' (paraphrased)
God. Fucking. Dammit.
Even worse is how you just can't have the conversations you need with each faction to color in the grey spaces. For example, with
Father
'How do you justify the murders your synths carry out.'
'What is your plan for the future of humanity, in particular those people on the surface?' and
'Do you believe gen 3 synths should have human rights. Do you believe they are sentient people?'
'What is your plan for the future of humanity, in particular those people on the surface?' and
'Do you believe gen 3 synths should have human rights. Do you believe they are sentient people?'
Lalalandia
Member
that's all i really care about with these games (& i'd say very good lore), so the other stuff, weak as it is, doesn't really bother me. the interesting/entertaining side missions, & the multiple stories, told via terminals & holotapes, were more than enough to guarantee me a great time. it's unfortunate that the main narrative sucks, but we seem to be stuck in the 'age of main narratives sucking' at this point
There was so little of it though even compared to FO3 they really dialled that part back, to where the stories in terminals were almost all based around 'OMG the bombs are falling' it felt like very few didn't have this as a primary focus. As a fellow lover of the sidequest I found this particularly disappointing as in prior games there were a variety of vaults with rich lore threads, this game had a handful with very brief text snippets.
I felt so disconnected to the characters and the story that honestly I didn't even care about spoilers regarding Danse and shit in the end.
Bethesda's writing is nothing to write home about but Fallout 4 takes the cake for making me not care about a single story character. The game tried so hard to guilt trip me about my choices
, but honestly to no avail since seriously by the end I thought all of them were douchebags forcing me to do something I don't wanna do and I literally picked the faction that irritated me the least. All those plot twists and lackluster dialogue options where I never felt like I could say what I wanted and instead was just forced down saying something or agreeing to do something I didn't wanna do lead up to an incredibly poor climax and I couldn't be happier about being done with this joke of an attempt at storytelling.
Bethesda's writing is nothing to write home about but Fallout 4 takes the cake for making me not care about a single story character. The game tried so hard to guilt trip me about my choices
Shaun laying there dying while I nuke the Institute
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
This is another problem I have
I'm Level 60 now (despite all my problems, I still enjoy the game), I waltz into a new area with a MK VII Power Armor and I see a guy shooting at 3 Level 5 Mirelurks from a roof. I kill the 3 things with one shot and talk to the guy and he's all like
"What the hell were you doing out there rookie? Those things would have killed you if it wasn't for me!"
Uhhh.....and my reply options are basically
"OH MY GOD, what ARE those things?
Thanks, you saved my life"
And I mean I get it. It's an open world game, nobody knows where you will go first right? But then the written dialog should reflect that game design. Like, either give me another option if I have fought a couple of HUNDREDS of Mirelurks before (including TWO queens) or don't have such a dialog at all. Or have it right in the starting area of the game. Only like 5 blocks away from this guy were a couple of Level 50 enemies so when I got there earlier I figured "Oh, alright I'm not supposed to be here yet!"
The Brotherhood is also the only faction with a legitimately fun ending. And the (optional) final confrontation with
your dying son that you've just betrayed is the closest the game ever comes to being well-written.
UberTag
Member
They should probably entertain the idea of disagreeing at some point. This thread (and countless others on GAF... and numerous streams I've watched on Twitch) has convinced me to finally follow through on returning this game (which I still have sealed) to Amazon for a refund.
I never do that with games that get Metacritic scores in the upper 80s in genres I supposedly enjoy.
I'm going to take the time to play through New Vegas instead.
Yeah, I didn't appreciate the game keeping so much information from me.
I did what I needed to do because there were waypoints and NPCs telling me to, but not because I felt any stake in what the results of my actions would be; I couldn't, I didn't know nearly enough.
I felt like a pawn, while characters are calling me by a high-ranking title. 'General', 'Sentinel' etc.
The conclusion of the main story with the Brotherhood of Steel. What the fuck?
At least, then, let me act in a way where I can assert that I was misled. "Hey, fuck you, no way". But I don't recall getting that option.
I did what I needed to do because there were waypoints and NPCs telling me to, but not because I felt any stake in what the results of my actions would be; I couldn't, I didn't know nearly enough.
I felt like a pawn, while characters are calling me by a high-ranking title. 'General', 'Sentinel' etc.
The conclusion of the main story with the Brotherhood of Steel. What the fuck?
"I'm sure this wouldn't change your decision-making process, but we're going to blow this facility to shit".
Some of the same reviewers that did FO4 also wrote that the story in MGSV was deep, considered and thought provoking.
Then I was listening to IdleThumbs discuss the game and nary a peep went into the quality of the narrative or how motivations of the characters don't make any sense. It is somewhat stranger still when you think that three of the people there are making a first person choice based narrative game.
SenatorBot
Member
I'm glad for the first time Bethesda didn't win GOTY.
CDprojekt went from an indie studio sized company that managed through hardwork to create one of the biggest and best new RPGs that excels in many areas.
Then you compare it to Bethesda that has pumped out 4-5 games all following the same formula that managed to simplify and regress in terms of progress every new entry in some way. This is a good time for Bethesda to look back and take a look at what their competitors have done well and to take steps into improving themselves for the better.
CDprojekt went from an indie studio sized company that managed through hardwork to create one of the biggest and best new RPGs that excels in many areas.
Then you compare it to Bethesda that has pumped out 4-5 games all following the same formula that managed to simplify and regress in terms of progress every new entry in some way. This is a good time for Bethesda to look back and take a look at what their competitors have done well and to take steps into improving themselves for the better.
The time to do that was between gens. That's why I was so excited for FO4. I was just 100% sure they'd ditch Gamebryo. But they didn't, and instead stripped their core game design even further.
Of course, doing things the other way would have cost a lot of money. But I'd say that while they may be making piles of easy money now, word of mouth will hurt them in the end as their games stagnate in the face of the competition. The next Bethesda game certainly won't be an auto-buy for me. Not anymore. I just hope they've heard all the criticism and don't turn a blind eye due to sales.
Acerac
Banned
The most frustrating part of the reviews for this game was how often this fact was passed by. If previous Fallouts didn't exist I wouldn't mind so much, but as is it's just kind of vexxing.
Oh well, it's a common sentiment that this game is best enjoyed by ignoring previous entries in the series. It does it's own thing well, after all.
Oh well, it's a common sentiment that this game is best enjoyed by ignoring previous entries in the series. It does it's own thing well, after all.
I think Bethesda gets so ambitious with the amount of content in their games, that so many other things have to suffer. In this case, there is a shit-ton of things to do, and places to explore, but it comes at the cost of outdated graphics, poorly written story, and poor performance. (got 1-2 FPS for an extended stretch in the final railroad mission in the Institute)
Father
Brotherhood about Bunker Hill
control over the Institute
Yeah, whenever the game demands consistency in storytelling, it's garbage. Bethesda at least tried in Oblivion and Morrowind (and in some cases actually did very well with storytelling).
One-off stories like the USS Constitution, while silly, are much better. I had a good laugh at the ending of that one.
Something that pissed me off during the Railroad quest is how they killed every single person in the Institute. Even the defenseless scientists that were cowering and shaking. What a bunch of dicks. I specifically chose to shoot anyone who was fighting back and avoided anyone without a weapon but the Railroad killed everyone anyway. I hate how the plan to break the synths free absolutely had to involve a massacre. It's like they just really wanted to kill.
Easton Dark
Member
Everyone in the Brotherhood is talking constantly about how their mission is the destruction of the Institute. They don't want the technology, they don't want co-existence, they want them gone and their research wiped from the earth.
What did you expect to happen?
Those scientists were amoral slave masters to the Railroad.
I knew they didn't want the
technology, per se. I didn't know they wanted to raze the facility, with its inherent technological capability, and kill all of its workers. Doctor Li wasn't considered tainted by the fact that she was a synth sympathizer, nor did the Brotherhood seem opposed to developing robots, they just seemed to dislike the idea of sentient technology, so the idea of murdering all of those people seemed off.
Basically, I didn't think that 'destruction' was meant entirely literally.
Interesting because the Minutemen explicitly did not kill anyone that wasn't fighting back but then again they are the most "good" faction.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, the dialogue system and main plot are a complete travesty. They really hurt my overall enjoyment of the game. It's too bad, because some of the individual quests and characters were really entertaining, but just as you put it, it feels like a "greatest hits" edition with no connecting tissue to make it all feel meaningful. Like most of the designers were working independently, and rather than try to make it all cohesive, they just shipped everything they had in there.
joecanada
Member
I agree with the OP and I am a huge Fallout apologist ,
How I survive in these games generally is I don't even really pursue the story, I never have and never will, I give them a bit of a pass because I don't think they could even create choices that would fit my character perfectly, but FO4 has bad endings, they should have let you stay out of more conflicts instead of forcing you to be violent towards everyone.
Hell I didn't even see what was so bad about the institute really, I mean they create these machines and then they don't allow them to escape, except that they have human souls of course so this makes them slavers in a way, but a lot of what they do you could argue is for the greater good ... and why did they want to eliminate everyone so badly? As the director you should absolutely be able to say no, we don't need to eliminate the pathetic railroad, they are fairly wimpy, in fact it doesn't even really make sense why they care so much about escapees... (again I don't pay attention much so I may be off here).
BoS are dicks but they are doing what they do, trying to protect mankind in their own black and white way
The weirdest are in fact the minutemen/railroad because they act so holier than thou and then want to exterminate everyone else in the game it seems.
I got some kind of end where the BoS and Minutemen are still with me, but I still see synths around (I cant recall off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure I was forced to wipe the railroad).
Again I just go about my exploration, sidequests, etc, the story is something I am kind of forced to do. But yeah it was weird to say the least.
What I find most puzzling is that for a good exploration game, run around killing stuff, open world playground, etc., less is more... They would have actually in my view created a better story by having very few "main story" dialogues and letting you decide in your head what you want to do and then just allow you to do it. Sick of the railroad? Attack them and get praise from Institute. Want to be a pacifist? Okay you don't fight everyone but those missions start without you (like molecular level).... Then at the end the BoS could say call you a coward and discharge you or something.... I feel they actually muddied the story more by interfering with their weird choices...
How I survive in these games generally is I don't even really pursue the story, I never have and never will, I give them a bit of a pass because I don't think they could even create choices that would fit my character perfectly, but FO4 has bad endings, they should have let you stay out of more conflicts instead of forcing you to be violent towards everyone.
Hell I didn't even see what was so bad about the institute really, I mean they create these machines and then they don't allow them to escape, except that they have human souls of course so this makes them slavers in a way, but a lot of what they do you could argue is for the greater good ... and why did they want to eliminate everyone so badly? As the director you should absolutely be able to say no, we don't need to eliminate the pathetic railroad, they are fairly wimpy, in fact it doesn't even really make sense why they care so much about escapees... (again I don't pay attention much so I may be off here).
BoS are dicks but they are doing what they do, trying to protect mankind in their own black and white way
The weirdest are in fact the minutemen/railroad because they act so holier than thou and then want to exterminate everyone else in the game it seems.
I got some kind of end where the BoS and Minutemen are still with me, but I still see synths around (I cant recall off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure I was forced to wipe the railroad).
Again I just go about my exploration, sidequests, etc, the story is something I am kind of forced to do. But yeah it was weird to say the least.
What I find most puzzling is that for a good exploration game, run around killing stuff, open world playground, etc., less is more... They would have actually in my view created a better story by having very few "main story" dialogues and letting you decide in your head what you want to do and then just allow you to do it. Sick of the railroad? Attack them and get praise from Institute. Want to be a pacifist? Okay you don't fight everyone but those missions start without you (like molecular level).... Then at the end the BoS could say call you a coward and discharge you or something.... I feel they actually muddied the story more by interfering with their weird choices...
Easton Dark
Member
I expected it just because if you explore the labs, you'll read that the entirety of the Institute, even bio-science, is dedicated to the advancement and implementation of synths on the surface.
The Brotherhood, who jerk off to the idea of having robots and technology "in their proper place" serving humanity, wants no chance of any research of synthetic will to survive. Quickest way to do that: big boom. That's why they also go after the Railroad so hard.
To add something to the main thread discussion: If you couldn't tell, I thought the writing was fine. I wish there was more reaction to your choices, but the plot, motivations, etc, made enough sense and gave me enough information to make what choices I wanted from the few available.
I think this is one of Bethesda's more ambitious games with the amount of different outcomes that affect other areas of the game, and the need to have other faction or characters react to your actions. It's almost like they bit off more than they can chew. In the past with Elder scrolls games you could pretty much do anything (be head of all good and evil guilds) and I always thought it was silly. This looks like their first foray into choices with consequences and they don't really have it down.
I think the concept of the story was great, however the presentation just couldn't keep up with it.
I finished the game the institute first, and didn't like my choices so I replayed with the Minutemen as my focus. Better experience this time around but unfortunately it just ended up with the Institute needing to be eliminated pretty much, and by blowing it up.
Ah well....I'm just glad I got the story out of the way so I can explore now. This is still one of my favorite Fallout games as the world, companion characters, and gameplay are fantastic.
I think the concept of the story was great, however the presentation just couldn't keep up with it.
I finished the game the institute first, and didn't like my choices so I replayed with the Minutemen as my focus. Better experience this time around but unfortunately it just ended up with the Institute needing to be eliminated pretty much, and by blowing it up.
Ah well....I'm just glad I got the story out of the way so I can explore now. This is still one of my favorite Fallout games as the world, companion characters, and gameplay are fantastic.
Fair point, it just seemed a step beyond what I expected. Even if it was forcing all of the scientists from The Institute to work under the Brotherhood, like with Doctor Li. Or, alternatively, killing everyone and taking those facilities to advance your own research. Or both. But blowing it up just seemed like a contrived way to end that quest-line on a huge explosion regardless of in-universe logic.
SinShep
Member
The main questline's problem for me is not really to do with the writing itself, but how it tries to mimic New Vegas' structure of different factions to choose from. New Vegas has the moment where you are locked to whatever faction you've worked the most for, something that this game really needed.
I got to the battle of Bunker Hill deciding to go with the Railroad, meaning every other faction there I shoot at since apparently none of them are willing to co-operate. The fact that I could kill several Brotherhood Knights without any of them turning on me as their partners died right next to them felt really stupid, and even more so when I could still go and talk to Elder Maxson after that quest, who didn't seem to know or care that I just killed a dozen of his soldiers.
Its the Elder Scrolls style of being able to join every group simultaneously that worked okay for the side questlines in those games, but definitely not here in a main questline which involves choosing to stick with one of these factions.
How exactly is that quest glitched for you? Might be the same issue I had with it.
I got to the battle of Bunker Hill deciding to go with the Railroad, meaning every other faction there I shoot at since apparently none of them are willing to co-operate. The fact that I could kill several Brotherhood Knights without any of them turning on me as their partners died right next to them felt really stupid, and even more so when I could still go and talk to Elder Maxson after that quest, who didn't seem to know or care that I just killed a dozen of his soldiers.
Its the Elder Scrolls style of being able to join every group simultaneously that worked okay for the side questlines in those games, but definitely not here in a main questline which involves choosing to stick with one of these factions.
How exactly is that quest glitched for you? Might be the same issue I had with it.
Is it actually glitched? I was confused with it at first since the quest marker leads you to the workshop and the lady kinda implies that you are supposed to blow it up.
The solution was actually pretty easy...but it seriously took me longer than it should have to realize what to do.
Solution:
go into build mode, highlight the rubble and scrap it.
Title is a major understatement. It's terrible everywhere, the shitty endgame for all factions it's just the natural course for the game.
I can't see why anyone would expect any different. When did Bethesda ever improve in this regard? We've only seen the opposite, but it doesn't matter: they know their audience (including journalists) and they did their research. Doesn't hurt their success one bit.
I can't see why anyone would expect any different. When did Bethesda ever improve in this regard? We've only seen the opposite, but it doesn't matter: they know their audience (including journalists) and they did their research. Doesn't hurt their success one bit.
Minutemen just want to destroy the institute facility, and thats really only because the institute attacked the Castle. When invading the institute with the minutemen they specifically say don't kill anyone who wants to escape.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
That's exactly want happened to me, after meeting the Railroad in the main quest I continued said main quest with the institute, then after 1 or 2 mission with them I wanted to try out the Railroad but couldn't because I did some main quest missions. Found it strange since it never happened before with either Skyrim or New Vegas.
Coffee Dog
Banned
People aren't playing bethesda games for the stuff that bethesda fucks up. Nobody cares about RPG mechanics, writing, believable worlds, the most cutting edge graphics, tons of polish, or proper shooting.
What people pick these games up for is the ability to wander an open world (that comes in either fantasy or post apocalyptic flavors) with little/no game "rules" or interference to instant enjoyment. As long as these titles still have that, bethesda still has their audience.
semiconscious
Member
so little? how much did you want?
...afa side quests, yeah, there could've been more, but i was satisfied with what was there, quality-wise. afa miscellaneous stuff, i managed to visit every major location, hacked a whole lotta terminals, & found much more than just 'omg the bombs'. silly/crazy stuff about personal conflicts, weird agendas, corruption, etc. would i've liked even more? yeah, sure. but i felt there was already lots (& much of it pretty amusing)...
BlueLiquid
Member
I can't remember where this gets mentioned, but at one point
Father accuses you of having been indoctrinated by whatever group you've been working with. He's the one that was raised by The Institute almost since birth! He's one to talk! But there's no option to bring this up.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
The Radio glitched. The guy got up and won't sit back down, thus unable to use the artillery. Unable to be fixed on consoles, requires console commands on PC.
So I am just not going to finish the story until it is patched. Or buy any DLC.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
People have typed these already, but I have to chime in here:
1. Playing through NV again, which I started toward the end of finishing Fallout 4. In NV, there are four factions. One, the Legion, is the sociopath's/objectivist who doesn't understand the concept of Darwinism's faction. If you're playing as a dick, that's where you go.
The other three are shaded very finely so that picking between them forces some thought. House is a benevolent dictator, but he's still a dictator, and he has no vision for rebuilding the region beyond New Vegas. Is what House is doing good enough for the region?
The NCR is an unwieldy, bureaucratic regime, but they are the best chance at creating stability in the West/Southwest. They genuinely are working toward becoming a strong democratic republic and will use Hoover Dam to supply power to people who otherwise would be SOL since they can't get into Vegas. However, are they reason enough to forcibly overthrow House and what he has built?
Yes Man foments an overthrow of House and an avoidance of the NCR's direction. Freedom has a high value and New Vegas deserves the chance to build its own goverment just as Shady Sands did in earlier Fallout games, but what if New Vegas falls? What if they can't control the Dam and its potential for power is never fully exploited (or worse yet, they can't protect the Dam and it is destroyed)? Is allowing New Vegas its freedom worth taking the risk that they fail?
Meanwhile, in Fallout 4, we have the Institute, which never quite tells you what their end game is, but which we know experiments on and kills people. The Railroad, which has a noble goal but no plan for the region beyond "save synths from the Insititute," and the Brotherhood, who are back to being the paranoid nutters that they used to be, but who seem to be more "violent militaristic Luddites" than "paranoid and secretive tech librarians" in this game, as if the FO4 team played 2 and NV for reference, but went a bit too far in the characterization.
Then there are the Minutemen, a less-fleshed out and fledgling NCR. Easily, this group is the most reasonably defined of the four, but other than the intentionally ridiculous Legion, they aren't written nearly as well as any other group in NV in terms of their motivation, etc.
2. The reactor in the Institute. It's generating power/producing clean water for the region. Why would anyone blow it up?! Even if the RR is disinterested in doing anything in the region beyond subsistence living and saving synths, they could still do something genuinely good in providing water for the region. The MM SHOULD DEFINITELY want to keep the reactor going! They're a group with ambitions to reclaim trust from locals and power in the region. Keeping the reactor going is a clear win-win for them!
The Brotherhood are generally about as eloquent and rage-filled as your typical Super Mutant in this game, but even for them, blowing up the reactor would be dumb because they're destroying all sorts of tech that they could be preserving or studying, even if some of it has been updated by the Institute.
Why wasn't there an option to save the reactor/not kill the scientists/just kill the Gen 1+2 synths guarding the Institute? Even if one has to pass checks to get the leaders of whatever group you align with to go through with this plan, it would make sense. You get the reactor, the credit for bringing clean water to the region, AND a bunch of scientists who now work for you and who can continue to rebuild the Commonwealth.
3. Why the fuck do the MM want to wipe out the RR? I didn't get that request, but I did see others have it. In fact, why can't we, through Charisma/Persuasion checks, align those two groups? They seem to have a vested interest in order and freedom for humans/Gen-3 synths and would make for a feasible coalition government in the area.
In fact, not having the chance to align groups was a shame and would have been a clear narrative upgrade over NV (where I don't think aligning groups was feasible since they were all cross-wise to one another in terms of what they wanted for New Vegas/the Mojave).
I could go on, but I've written WAY too much already and apologize for the long post.
1. Playing through NV again, which I started toward the end of finishing Fallout 4. In NV, there are four factions. One, the Legion, is the sociopath's/objectivist who doesn't understand the concept of Darwinism's faction. If you're playing as a dick, that's where you go.
The other three are shaded very finely so that picking between them forces some thought. House is a benevolent dictator, but he's still a dictator, and he has no vision for rebuilding the region beyond New Vegas. Is what House is doing good enough for the region?
The NCR is an unwieldy, bureaucratic regime, but they are the best chance at creating stability in the West/Southwest. They genuinely are working toward becoming a strong democratic republic and will use Hoover Dam to supply power to people who otherwise would be SOL since they can't get into Vegas. However, are they reason enough to forcibly overthrow House and what he has built?
Yes Man foments an overthrow of House and an avoidance of the NCR's direction. Freedom has a high value and New Vegas deserves the chance to build its own goverment just as Shady Sands did in earlier Fallout games, but what if New Vegas falls? What if they can't control the Dam and its potential for power is never fully exploited (or worse yet, they can't protect the Dam and it is destroyed)? Is allowing New Vegas its freedom worth taking the risk that they fail?
Meanwhile, in Fallout 4, we have the Institute, which never quite tells you what their end game is, but which we know experiments on and kills people. The Railroad, which has a noble goal but no plan for the region beyond "save synths from the Insititute," and the Brotherhood, who are back to being the paranoid nutters that they used to be, but who seem to be more "violent militaristic Luddites" than "paranoid and secretive tech librarians" in this game, as if the FO4 team played 2 and NV for reference, but went a bit too far in the characterization.
Then there are the Minutemen, a less-fleshed out and fledgling NCR. Easily, this group is the most reasonably defined of the four, but other than the intentionally ridiculous Legion, they aren't written nearly as well as any other group in NV in terms of their motivation, etc.
2. The reactor in the Institute. It's generating power/producing clean water for the region. Why would anyone blow it up?! Even if the RR is disinterested in doing anything in the region beyond subsistence living and saving synths, they could still do something genuinely good in providing water for the region. The MM SHOULD DEFINITELY want to keep the reactor going! They're a group with ambitions to reclaim trust from locals and power in the region. Keeping the reactor going is a clear win-win for them!
The Brotherhood are generally about as eloquent and rage-filled as your typical Super Mutant in this game, but even for them, blowing up the reactor would be dumb because they're destroying all sorts of tech that they could be preserving or studying, even if some of it has been updated by the Institute.
Why wasn't there an option to save the reactor/not kill the scientists/just kill the Gen 1+2 synths guarding the Institute? Even if one has to pass checks to get the leaders of whatever group you align with to go through with this plan, it would make sense. You get the reactor, the credit for bringing clean water to the region, AND a bunch of scientists who now work for you and who can continue to rebuild the Commonwealth.
3. Why the fuck do the MM want to wipe out the RR? I didn't get that request, but I did see others have it. In fact, why can't we, through Charisma/Persuasion checks, align those two groups? They seem to have a vested interest in order and freedom for humans/Gen-3 synths and would make for a feasible coalition government in the area.
In fact, not having the chance to align groups was a shame and would have been a clear narrative upgrade over NV (where I don't think aligning groups was feasible since they were all cross-wise to one another in terms of what they wanted for New Vegas/the Mojave).
I could go on, but I've written WAY too much already and apologize for the long post.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They only care about syths.
This idea I like. Convincing the faction leader through your charisma or your actions that razing the Institute and all of its technology to the ground is a bad idea.
Have that be an initial 'bad' ending, almost, and have the alternative require you to gain enough influence within a faction to have it incorporate the Institute, or perhaps the other factions, into their plans.
Hobbestetrician
Member
Elder Maxson gave me a promotion mere seconds after me being openly insubordinate (
) to an issue that is central to the goal of the Brotherhood of Steel. "How dare you go against the Brotherhood and what we stand for!...Here is a promotion, you are the best person for the job!"
And why do any of the other factions want to blow up The Institute the place? Like, yeah, shut down the synth stuff and other science projects but I have spent hours setting up shitting settlements for people so they can sleep on dirty mattresses with three stalks of corn planted outside. Why wouldn't any of these groups want to move into the place with showers, AC, nice clean beds and all sort of amenities? "Nah, we like our dirt farms, nuke the bitch"
sparing Danse
And why do any of the other factions want to blow up The Institute the place? Like, yeah, shut down the synth stuff and other science projects but I have spent hours setting up shitting settlements for people so they can sleep on dirty mattresses with three stalks of corn planted outside. Why wouldn't any of these groups want to move into the place with showers, AC, nice clean beds and all sort of amenities? "Nah, we like our dirt farms, nuke the bitch"
The Last Wizard
Member
Is problematic a synonym for shitty. Was so disappointing after loving new Vegas:/
Playing F4 has pretty much solidified that Bethesda games aren't for me. I tried but after 4 different games I've got my answer.
Playing F4 has pretty much solidified that Bethesda games aren't for me. I tried but after 4 different games I've got my answer.
I don't see how its worse than their previous games. The writing across conversations is generally better, consider that almost every conversation in Fallout 3 ended with the awkward 'I have to go now'.
But the overall plot is probably weakened by the dialogue system which prevents you from asking about motivations/characters etc outside of quests. And even then you need to always take the 'question' option instead of 'yes/no/sarcastic' to get some understanding.
But the overall plot is probably weakened by the dialogue system which prevents you from asking about motivations/characters etc outside of quests. And even then you need to always take the 'question' option instead of 'yes/no/sarcastic' to get some understanding.
Who would trust ANYTHING Todd says!?
The Lamonster
Member
I don't care a ton about the story, but it really irked me when Preston stopped to tell me "thank you" while we were assaulting some raider base. It look like 4 minutes for him to spit it out. "I guess I just wanted to say thank you." Ok dude, you're still not getting laid.
After that I've just been skipping a lot of the dialogue. (and btw I LOVED the Mass Effect trilogy story and dialogue. I'm not the type of gamer that usually skips it)
After that I've just been skipping a lot of the dialogue. (and btw I LOVED the Mass Effect trilogy story and dialogue. I'm not the type of gamer that usually skips it)
New Vegas is far away the best and it isn't even their game. Same goes for Dishonored.
Morrowind was the last worthwhile game they made, imo.
Honestly the dude is probably one of my least favorite game developers. Him and David Cage.
Hey, say enough lies, enough times some of it will come true?
Or is this just Gambler's Fallacy?
The Last Wizard
Member
Yea, unless it's obsidian or arkane I ain't touching it.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Compared to Fallout 3, the overall plot and its moving parts in the Commonwealth appear extremely shallow. I still like it a lot, but I agree that this is probably the weakest Bethesda title in terms of writing. it had potential to try and match up to New Vegas and it actually fell below their previous Fallout.
And kid in the fridge is really stupid. Someone actually greenlit that shit.
And kid in the fridge is really stupid. Someone actually greenlit that shit.