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[il Diavolo]

Hate it how when I activate an NPC I've never met before my character somehow knows their name in the canned greeting. May seem like a nitpick but its so fucking silly whenever it happens.

 

[Mister Negative]

By decision time you were supposed to feel something for Synths. Hatred, empathy, superiority, or indifference. You were then supposed to align your beliefs with one of the factions' corresponding beliefs. Problem is the game's story never really gave you a reason to feel any of those things. The time from the story shifting from the main character's arc to making a decision about the fate of the commonwealth was minuscule and jumped to a huge decision you hadn't been preparing or cared for. All you cared about was your son and then two minutes later you are choosing sides, eliminating copmetition, and changing the Commonwealth forever.

Love the game but the story was silly and had zero impact on me. Maybe the problem was I fell into the indifferent category and too many others did. They never pulled us into the game enough to care about the fate of the Synths. It made no difference to me. I did pick Railroad though but easily could have gone Minutemen.

That's part 1 of the problem. part 2 is that you're supposed to feel those emotions SO STRONGLY that the only possible way to deal with the factions that don't feel that way is

Spoiler

murder.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

It really breaks my heart to see a beloved franchise, redux'd to oblivion.

Prior to the mediocre reviews, the numerous threads 4's banality... I knew, Fallout was over.

In a day and age when they remake Point Break, Kindergarten Cop, et.al, these old franchises, owned by mega corps, are off my radar. Too familiar, too repetitive, too cash grab.

God I hope SS3's kick starter does the series justice. I can't bear to see that franchise fucked.

Fallout 3 was crap. No surprise 4 is more of the same. They just aren't the games I grew up with.

If you want to "innovate", don't do it on the coat strings of gaming history. Start something new. Fucking Kindergarten Cop remake... Fuck.

 

[Nessus]

I hate the lack of agency through dialogue options in this game. I put a lot of points into Charisma, like I normally do in Fallout, and ended up regretting it.

I didn't like any of the endings, all of them force me to do something I don't want to do, and none of them allow me to influence the outcome in a meaningful way, to steer my chosen faction in a more diplomatic or less destructive direction.

So my canon ending is the Sole Survivor saying hell with it and leaving the different factions to fight amongst themselves (with none of them getting an upper hand because he isn't there to do all the heavy lifting for them, so my preferred ending is the status quo) while he explores the Glowing Sea and is never heard from again.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Yeah, too many things took out my role-playing vibes when playing this game. And I'm not talking about glitches and bugs too.

The disconnect between the background info and what you can do if you pick female lead. The inability to roleplay as a bad guy. The fact that your character can often call a person his/her name even though they haven't been introduced to one another and this is the first time your character see/encounter/know them.

Fuck that last one was so terrible; it's like they just didn't even care :/

 

[yanipheonu]

The Institutes major boogeyman presence hinges on them kidnapping people and replacing them with Synths.

It is never explained why they do this, or where the kidnapped people went. There's a throwaway line about research but it's nowhere near a satisfactory answer.

 

[Coriolanus]

Given that Canada was annexed, no reason why one couldn't get Fallout Toronto/Quebec. US is a bit stale, tbh

The Institutes major boogeyman presence hinges on them kidnapping people and replacing them with Synths.

It is never explained why they do this, or where the kidnapped people went. There's a throwaway line about research but it's nowhere near a satisfactory answer.

Sorta is with the warwick homestead mission they give ya. You find logs in a terminal detailing what they plan to do with the place. They kidnapped the father to replace him with a synth, then will use the location to test new crops. After the study is complete, if memory serves, they plan to raze the place.

Institute don't care, they see everything up top as resources to be used and discarded as needed. So yes, they just kidnap and kill people to replace them.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

I miss Morrowind so much. Still the best world Bethesda has ever crafted

 

[UncleSporky]

I miss Morrowind so much. Still the best world Bethesda has ever crafted

And for all the criticism everyone has of Todd Howard in this thread...wasn't he really influential/instrumental in developing that game? I mean there are literally rooms and notes with his name on them, visible all over in the world editor.

 

[yanipheonu]

Given that Canada was annexed, no reason why one couldn't get Fallout Toronto/Quebec. US is a bit stale, tbh



Sorta is with the warwick homestead mission they give ya. You find logs in a terminal detailing what they plan to do with the place. They kidnapped the father to replace him with a synth, then will use the location to test new crops. After the study is complete, if memory serves, they plan to raze the place.

Institute don't care, they see everything up top as resources to be used and discarded as needed. So yes, they just kidnap and kill people to replace them.

Ah good catch. Though it raises the questions of why Father wouldn't explain this to you, or you wouldn't question it.

Or why they wouldn't put such important information in the main institute missions.

Edit: hell, I would have shook people by the shoulders and yelled "why the hell are you killing people?!"

 

[silvermember]

And for all the criticism everyone has of Todd Howard in this thread...wasn't he really influential/instrumental in developing that game? I mean there are literally rooms and notes with his name on them, visible all over in the world editor.

What he did in the past is not relevant to the present. You can romanticize his earlier work,but it doesn't change the fact that he is incompetent.

 

[True Fire]

And for all the criticism everyone has of Todd Howard in this thread...wasn't he really influential/instrumental in developing that game? I mean there are literally rooms and notes with his name on them, visible all over in the world editor.

Game Developers can get worse over time. Just look at Yoshinori Kitase: he went from directing two of the best JRPGs of all time to producing two of the worst JRPGs of all time.

 

[UncleSporky]

What he did in the past is not relevant to the present. You can romanticize his earlier work,but it doesn't change the fact that he is incompetent.

Incompetent, give me a break. Every other game he touches could alternate between masterpiece and terrible, and I suppose you'd swing from incompetent to genius every time?

 

[Darth_Caedus]

Game Developers can get worse over time. Just look at Yoshinori Kitase: he went from directing two of the best JRPGs of all time to producing two of the worst JRPGs of all time.

The only good one he did was 13

 

[silvermember]

Incompetent, give me a break. Every other game he touches could alternate between masterpiece and terrible, and I suppose you'd swing from incompetent to genius every time?

As a consumer I want a good product. His last three games have been leaning heavily towards incompetent. Given how much they make, you would think they would hire some competent devs.

Then again I don't blame bethsoft since there are people who cling to past glory like it matters in this day and age.

 

[NBtoaster]

As a consumer I want a good product. His last three games have been leaning heavily towards incompetent. Given how much they make, you would think they would hire some competent devs.

Then again I don't blame bethsoft since there are people who cling to past glory like it matters in this day and age.

They're probably not operating on the premise that their games indicate incompetence, given the positive reaction from press and fans, and sales. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't try to improve on criticised areas, which is especially evident in Fallout 4.

But, you disagree. Thankfully though your opinion isn't the majority and they will continue making games like Fallout 4 for their fans to enjoy.

 

[Rushersauce]

They're probably not operating on the premise that their games indicate incompetence, given the positive reaction from press and fans, and sales. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't try to improve on criticised areas, which is especially evident in Fallout 4.

But, you disagree. Thankfully though your opinion isn't the majority and they will continue making games like Fallout 4 for their fans to enjoy.

They'll keep dumbing their games down, and they will still get a free pass. Sad, so sad.

 

[foogles]

The stuff being described here does seem like some strange character behavior. I guess in my playthrough I just didn't see it.

I got through the Minutemen and Railroad missions to a standstill in that I couldn't find a way to continue them further. I had set up a possible revolt in the Institute with the Railroad backing me, and then it just kind of stopped. Then I did the Brotherhood missions to the point of almost bringing Liberty Prime back online, and left when they tried to have me kill off the Railroad. Like, fuck that, the Railroad weren't trying to hurt or kill people. Then I did the the Institute missions to the point that I had to choose between the Institute and Brotherhood at Mass Fusion. I chose to betray the Brotherhood there and delivered the Beryllium thingy to the Institute, but then I went back to the Prydwen to finish the job and kill everyone aboard. I wasn't asked to do that; it just seemed like it needed to be done, or they were going to hunt me down. Plus, they wanted me to murder good people in cold blood. That wasn't cool.

Then I forget what I did, but I did something to get banished from the Institute (as it was Synths attacking my peace-loving settlements - what the fuck? Why?), and wound up completing the Minutemen ending. But they didn't ask me to blow up the Prydwen - I skipped straight to getting settlements going, getting Sturges to look at the data I took from Proctor, uh, Ingram's corpse, and used it to blow up the Institute's reactor.

Reading guides to the ending, it almost seems like I accidentally stumbled on the only ending that seems to make any sense.

 

[silvermember]

They're probably not operating on the premise that their games indicate incompetence, given the positive reaction from press and fans, and sales. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't try to improve on criticised areas, which is especially evident in Fallout 4.

But, you disagree. Thankfully though your opinion isn't the majority and they will continue making games like Fallout 4 for their fans to enjoy.

You are right that my opinion is not a majority. That's why people keep buying bethsoft games. With that said, more people are beginning to see the mediocrity that makes up bethsoft games. In the past people were blindly praising bethsoft games. They even won a lot GOTY awards, this time...

The smoke and mirrors are beginning to fall.

 

[UncleSporky]

You are right that my opinion is not a majority. That's why people keep buying bethsoft games. With that said, more people are beginning to see the mediocrity that makes up bethsoft games. In the past people were blindly praising bethsoft games. They even won a lot GOTY awards, this time...

The smoke and mirrors are beginning to fall.

This is such a "wake up, sheeple" post.

You make it sound like things were always terrible and people are just now noticing, when it could just as easily be the case that they loved everything about Fallout 3 and/or Skyrim and for whatever reason don't like Fallout 4 as much. Dislike for Fallout 4 doesn't imply some sort of "awakening." It just means that an individual game isn't to that individual's taste.

A lot of people disliked Oblivion and thought Skyrim was an awesome upgrade and return to form. Public reception to their games is more of a rollercoaster than you'd like to believe.

 

[SmartBase]

I never got to find out why the Institute did the things it did even though that faction's ending is the one I pursued. Every time you had the player character ask for answers all you'd get is "the Institute is humanity's best hope" or other similar tripe, and that basic question remained unanswered all the way to the end of the storyline. The only faction that had any clear motivation for their actions seemed to be the Minutemen.

 

[Sblargh]

I think videogame writers doing work on multiple factions/endings should start out by simply copying 4X games way to categorize stuff.

One is the violent, one is the economic, one is the scientific, one is the diplomatic.
In this case, without having played the game and reading nothing, but this thread (horrible way to do things, but well), I'd say that:
- A player focused on CHR could go with the Railroad as they covertly convince other factions to their point of view. (diplomatic)
- A player focused on killing could go with the Brotherhood, since their stance seems to be to straight up murder people to avoid tech from being appropriated by them. (violent)
- A player focused on INT could go Institute, hacking, sabotaging and stealing their way into Metal Gear would act as a deterrent to the other factions. (scientific)
- A player focused on building bases could go Minutemen, since they seem to be about the people who actually lives on those settlements you build, but I don't know, I never played this game, please hire me to fix your game, I'm a genius.

Spoiler

seriously, I need a job

 

[Northeastmonk]

I felt like there was maybe

Spoiler

one actual plot twist and that was it

It looks wonderful and I was always anticipating seeing something else. I liked the towns, the items felt like they were scattered very well and it payed off when you got lost.

The writing and the grand design felt small. Skyrim had scale to it. I got

Spoiler

to the end with the Brotherhood and it was like it was starting from the beginning. That entire mission could have been the first mission with the Brotherhood.

I like how mature their games are and I'm not the kinda person to cut them down to size over that or a lot of games period. I feel like I don't know where to go and I didn't really find an absolutely amazing quest to go off of. There were a few fun quests, but what I mentioned before probably sticks out the most.

Some people really hate fiction, to the point where everything has to be solid rock or they don't like it. I get that some things have to try to be "modern" in a sense that they give up on sometimes good methods of storytelling for the lack there of. I don't think it needed to be cool or hip, but it was easy to follow. Nothing really got complicated or went beyond the limits.

I wonder sometimes if people have put a new consensus on video games. I talked to people at my work and they're so lost on where to go. I have a lot of missions complete and it felt like hot butter on bread. I don't get it. You have one side saying they're so vast and endless, but I don't seem to see why they think that way. If anything Skyrim felt more epic, but Fallout 4 made you feel involved with what content they had.

Fallout 3 seemed like it had a much larger plot to unravel. This felt like it was just a simple

Spoiler

war of the factions

I think it was a much easier Fallout game because of the route it took.

 

[Hjod]

I've finished the game siding with the Institute and BOS (for trophy purposes) and..

Spoiler

I don't really see the difference in endings, sure the BOS ending you nuke the hell out of CIT while your son lies in his bed looking at you. It's so anti climactic, nothing really happens. I was about level 60 before I started delving into the different factions, and I just wanted it to be over, I just hurried along to get it done. The main quest is really what is worst with FO4, I loved the exploring and finding stuff, reading terminals and even the settlement building was fun, but the main quest line is crap. The Silver Shroud quest and the one where you enter Kellogs memories are the ones that really stand out.

They need to really fix the quests and the writing before Fallout 5, hand FO5 over to Obsidian please.

 

[shoreu]

I don't like that as a charismatic character I can't truly influence things to go my way. The Bunker hill mission was a complete and total disaster I warned the Brotherhood and the Railroad at the same time. My I assumed that since i was "leading the assault i could tell them to not attack my railroad agents... this was not the case and it was a blood bath for all 3 factions.

Elder Maxon is a complete and total moron and the only reason he's written that way is to keep the BOS from being the obvious choice. Why wouldn't the BOS recruit the Minutemen for assistance and why can't i just lie about taking out the railroad and keep my cover in the institute all at the same time. Pulling a lot of this off is pretty easy in theory but they just didn't seem to have the creativity to make it happen.

 

[shoreu]

I think videogame writers doing work on multiple factions/endings should start out by simply copying 4X games way to categorize stuff.

One is the violent, one is the economic, one is the scientific, one is the diplomatic.
In this case, without having played the game and reading nothing, but this thread (horrible way to do things, but well), I'd say that:
- A player focused on CHR could go with the Railroad as they covertly convince other factions to their point of view. (diplomatic)
- A player focused on killing could go with the Brotherhood, since their stance seems to be to straight up murder people to avoid tech from being appropriated by them. (violent)
- A player focused on INT could go Institute, hacking, sabotaging and stealing their way into Metal Gear would act as a deterrent to the other factions. (scientific)
- A player focused on building bases could go Minutemen, since they seem to be about the people who actually lives on those settlements you build, but I don't know, I never played this game, please hire me to fix your game, I'm a genius.

Spoiler

seriously, I need a job

Yeah but the institue is kinda evil for no reason you shouldn't be kidnapping people and seiging areas.

The Brotherhood has the potential to do the most good for the wasteland but their leader is a moron so that's not going to happen.

All the railroad cares about is freeing synths so i don't feel like i'm actually helping anyone in the Wasteland.

And the Minutemen are a small support group that can help boston but their scope is just so small.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I stopped playing not long after finding the Institute. I enjoyed exploring the map, but I'd already started to fill a lot of it in, and was underwhelmed by what looked like an interesting quest on too many times.

 

[Astery]

absolutely.

I joined institute and do their ending just hoping I could really understand or being told clearly what exactly is institute's real goal since what I've been told doesn't make any logical sense.

I did not get an satstsfying answer that remotely answered my question, after spending over 350 hours and finishing every damn content the game has to offer.

What was said in bits of pieces of information I gathered is basically

Spoiler

- institute kidnaps people or let top scientist or like minded people join them, then replace the person with a synth clone.

- they have to be secretive because they tried being open and it didn't end well. That's their reason to be shady.

- however, they are starting phase 3 with your help. Control the surface for energy resources and whatnot, and they cannot have anything else interrupting their road of securing these resources.

- synths are up on the surface doing scientific research for the good of humanity, at least that is what institute believes, even tho humanity is also defined differently by them. It is sometimes the real humans within institute, but most likely it is about the synths. So humanity = synths? (it is likely to say that with the "humanity redefined" quest)

- however, on the other hand they are also denying that any synths has a "soul". (Aside the synth Shaun for some reason, he's special or something) Even Shaun himself dismissed the notion of the synths they are making may have a "soul", claiming they are just machines and execute orders; if they do anything else they are malfunctioned and has to be taken back to institute for "repairs".

wait, now institute is already conflicting itself with their most fundamental ideology and I no longer know wtf is it with them. If you bring that up whenever you will just get cockblocked from any answers, leading me to believe no one at Bethesda really thought it through w any care whatsoever.

 

[jahasaja]

Except for the vagueness of the fractions' motives the main issue is that the question if machines/synths should have rights is not compatible with a post apocalyptic setting.

If people have to deal with mutant attacks, starvation, radiation etc on a daily basis. Nobody would give a damn about complex moral issues such as robot rights.

That this idea was not already shut down on the planning stage is very strange.

 

[Acinixys]

Toddlers Howard also said that Fallout 4 will offer more ways to resolve quests / situations non-violently.

lol

The game is literally a no holds barred FPS

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Oh Kev, this is why I have a less than mutual love of you.

Fallout 4 is a game of choices, but no consequences. In the Zero Punctuation review of the game, Yahtzee made light of the fact that FO4 makes it really hard to be a reprehensible human-being; and while that's usually an after thought for me when it comes to RPGs, that statement perfectly underlines the problem with FO4. No consequences.

You are accepted as the God-King of the Commonwealth Wastes, regardless of your actions. I tried to be awful in FO4, I really did. Not because that's how I play an RPG, just because I wanted to see my decisions have some sort of impact on the world. And you know what?

They had sweet fuck all impact on a goddamned thing.

So I went back to Fallout: New Vegas. My favourite game of all time, admittedly, but for really good reasons. I decided that I'd play the most horrible person I could, because I wanted to cleanse myself of the bucket of mediocrity that is FO4. I went full sociopathic laser specialist with a penchant for human flesh. So obviously everyone hated me, right?

Well, no actually.

Sometimes the NCR thought I was the devil, and sometimes they were grovelling at my feet for blessing them with my time. Sometimes the Legion thought I was the 2nd coming of Caesar, and sometimes they wanted to enslave me for a dozen lifetimes. Because ultimately, in New Vegas, there is no good or evil; there is only what you can walk away with once the dust settles.

There are no good guys; the Legion are a comical bad-guy in some respects, but they are merely a farcical reflection of the supposed good guys, all of whom are driven by pathetically ideological justifications, or disgustingly dogmatic/bureaucratic blindness (e.g. the NCR). And that is so much more real than any of the flimsy bullshit excuses behind the existence of factions in FO4.

Fallout 4 is a fun game, no doubt. You are given a vast and lovely world in which to explore and dabble. But from an actual world-building perspective it's as broad as an ocean and as deep as a puddle. Compared with Fallout games not made by Bethesda, it's a gigantic turd which blemishes the legacy of one of the most exciting worlds in all of gaming history.

 

[jakonovski]

All I wanted was a "Fuck you, I'm the new power in the Commonwealth now. Submit or die." option.

Then have a war table where you choose what to do with the land and the various factions.

People always say games are power fantasies, but it's always just doing what some dude says.

 

[WanderingWind]

I just want a Fallout RPG. Look, I enjoyed Fallout 4. The story, questing and overall writing was absolutely terrible, but the game was still very enjoyable on its own merits. But man, I really want a Fallout 4.5 made by folks who care about the genre. It's not even a knock on Bethesda. Make your money, daddy-o. Just, you know, give the fans who made the game a household name something. Throw us a bone.

 

[Sotha Sil]

All of this is making me worried about TESVI. I already knew the writing was going to be terrible, but all this talk about "sub-Skyrim level" writing and factions is bad news. How low can they go?

 

[CloudWolf]

All of this is making me worried about TESVI. I already knew the writing was going to be terrible, but all this talk about "sub-Skyrim level" writing and factions is bad news. How low can they go?

I'm sure the next Elder Scrolls game will be less bad regarding the factions. The thing in Fallout 4 is that they tried to emulate New Vegas' faction system without really understanding what made that system work.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I'm sure the next Elder Scrolls game will be less bad regarding the factions. The thing in Fallout 4 is that they tried to emulate New Vegas' faction system without really understanding what made that system work.

Ha, yes, I can totally see that happening. (Haven't played FO4 yet, and probably won't I guess)

 

[Y2Kev]

Skyrim is already this bad. Oh you want to be grand archmage Jesus? Here do three missions that don't even require magic. The factions there just usually don't want to kill each other.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Skyrim is already this bad. Oh you want to be grand archmage Jesus? Here do three missions that don't even require magic. The factions there just usually don't want to kill each other.

Yeah, pretty much. Haven't really liked a TES faction since, maybe, Oblivion Thieves' Guild/Dark Brotherhood. Morrowind's interwoven faction system remains unmatched (TES-wise).

 

[lazygecko]

Skyrim is already this bad. Oh you want to be grand archmage Jesus? Here do three missions that don't even require magic. The factions there just usually don't want to kill each other.

It has psychic characters as well. You can go through all of Esbern's initial dialogue without ever mentioning Delphine, yet once you're allowed inside he will act as though you were sent by her regardless.

 

[CloudWolf]

Skyrim is already this bad. Oh you want to be grand archmage Jesus? Here do three missions that don't even require magic. The factions there just usually don't want to kill each other.

Eh, because of this I don't consider Skyrim to be as bad as Fallout 4. Sure, I've got huge problems with the factions and guilds in Skyrim, but at least they didn't try to add some sort of interfactional relation system like they tried in Fallout 4.

The Battle of Bunker Hill quest is especially hilarious since you can just kill whoever without any repercussions since the player isn't supposed to have picked a side yet. I murdered Brotherhood members, Railroad members and synths and nobody actually fought back or got suspicious.

 

[WanderingWind]

Skyrim is already this bad. Oh you want to be grand archmage Jesus? Here do three missions that don't even require magic. The factions there just usually don't want to kill each other.

Hell, in direct comparison, Fallout 4 may be a wee bit better than Skyrim in that regard. Well, except for the Minuteman. At least you can't become the Elder, the Institute head and Harriet Tugman all in the same playthrough.

That's faint praise though. Skyrim was just embarassing. Like the game was treating you like a 8-year old playing hoops against his old man. Sure, you're making baskets, but it just feels so hollow.

 

[Solid Samus]

Go read any AAA thread around here. There will be people who desperately want critical discussion to stop. Hence my post using the phrase "some people". I did not say "critical discussion never happens here", I said there are some people who are adamant about shutting it down.

Oh yeah. Just like there are people who want critical discussion regarding games they've already decided they don't like to begin and end at "shit clearly sucks, if you don't agree then hop off that dev dick", well before the game is even out. And where Fallout was concerned, if you had the gall to dispute pre-release FUD on many grounds, whether you're really an out and out Beth fanboy or you're just reserving judgement, guess what, you a Bethesdrone now, boy. I guess I'm just saying that the shit's been a two way street (as it always is to varying degrees depending on the game and the level of pre-release hype or cynicism surrounding it), but you wouldn't get that impression the way some people tell the story. Just seems super weird to me considering that for some time now I've been an active participant in many Bethesda threads, extolling the virtues of Obsidian's approach to Fallout and rebuking Bethesda's treatment of the series, and I honestly can't think of a single dev house that drew more all out criticism relating to the design of their games on GAF (short of Ubisoft) this past year.
ultimately you're right though. I gotta imagine that Fallout 4 in particular was anticipated on a level that very few games reach so you had a lot of people, myself included, took some unwise measures to hold onto some of that hype. Attempts to rationalize the warning signs and hold onto that hope, you know? fool me twice, can't fool me again.

You are right that my opinion is not a majority. That's why people keep buying bethsoft games. With that said, more people are beginning to see the mediocrity that makes up bethsoft games. In the past people were blindly praising bethsoft games. They even won a lot GOTY awards, this time...

The smoke and mirrors are beginning to fall.

I think it's mostly people seeing the mediocrity of Fallout 4 in particular as they experience it for themselves. You can admit that Skyrim and Fallout 3 had redeeming elements that enabled their crazy sales and word of mouth hype, as opposed to those games having been backed entirely by cavalcades of blind plebs as you've insinuated at every opportunity. It won't hurt, I promise. I don't even go in this hard on Assassin's Creed, lmao.

Oh Kev, this is why I have a less than mutual love of you.

Fallout 4 is a game of choices, but no consequences. In the Zero Punctuation review of the game, Yahtzee made light of the fact that FO4 makes it really hard to be a reprehensible human-being; and while that's usually an after thought for me when it comes to RPGs, that statement perfectly underlines the problem with FO4. No consequences.

You are accepted as the God-King of the Commonwealth Wastes, regardless of your actions. I tried to be awful in FO4, I really did. Not because that's how I play an RPG, just because I wanted to see my decisions have some sort of impact on the world. And you know what?

They had sweet fuck all impact on a goddamned thing.

So I went back to Fallout: New Vegas. My favourite game of all time, admittedly, but for really good reasons. I decided that I'd play the most horrible person I could, because I wanted to cleanse myself of the bucket of mediocrity that is FO4. I went full sociopathic laser specialist with a penchant for human flesh. So obviously everyone hated me, right?

Well, no actually.

Sometimes the NCR thought I was the devil, and sometimes they were grovelling at my feet for blessing them with my time. Sometimes the Legion thought I was the 2nd coming of Caesar, and sometimes they wanted to enslave me for a dozen lifetimes. Because ultimately, in New Vegas, there is no good or evil; there is only what you can walk away with once the dust settles.

There are no good guys; the Legion are a comical bad-guy in some respects, but they are merely a farcical reflection of the supposed good guys, all of whom are driven by pathetically ideological justifications, or disgustingly dogmatic/bureaucratic blindness (e.g. the NCR). And that is so much more real than any of the flimsy bullshit excuses behind the existence of factions in FO4.

Fallout 4 is a fun game, no doubt. You are given a vast and lovely world in which to explore and dabble. But from an actual world-building perspective it's as broad as an ocean and as deep as a puddle. Compared with Fallout games not made by Bethesda, it's a gigantic turd which blemishes the legacy of one of the most exciting worlds in all of gaming history.

I don't even think Fallout 4 tries half as hard as Fallout 3 did to contextualize the weird, disparate, disconnected elements of its world, much less your impact on the locales and the Commonwealth in general. For as many locations as the open world is packed with, very few are made all that interesting once you're there. Sometimes you get some cool scene dressing and maybe a terminal or two or a flyer mentioning some other location, but the stories told therein aren't as interesting as in Fallout 3 or NV (probably because they're often a lot less wacky and personal), and you're almost never sent to those places to see or do anything interesting anyway. Fallout 4's approach to questing seems less like the central facet of the game working to enable your roleplaying desires as it should be, and more like a vehicle through which to get you to see these locations the devs built for you as you shoot your way through their pre-defined story, like some Far Cry meets Mass Effect bullshit. At least that's what it felt like to me after exhausting pretty much all of the game's interesting content in a record time (compared to the last two Fallout games).

 

[KevMan1815]

The railroad story really goes places. Stupid places.

Spoiler

Shaun

is such an aweful, stupid character I was shocked when I realised that it wasn't a joke, but something that's actually happening.

Spoiler

Well Mother, I freed you from the Vault, and then just wondered whether you will survive or not but didn't really care to be honest. We also thought it would make sense to let you, an untrained lawyer from another century, kill our badass assassin. Also I thought it would be fun to tease you with a little robot Shaun when you arrived here, that was funny. Oh, btw. no I won't really tell you what the Instute actually does. But I really love you, please kill everybody else in the wasteland and take my place in the institute, I'm dead now, bye *dies*

This made me lol at work. Thank you for your synopsis.

 

[The Albatross]

Yeah, too many things took out my role-playing vibes when playing this game. And I'm not talking about glitches and bugs too.

The disconnect between the background info and what you can do if you pick female lead. The inability to roleplay as a bad guy. The fact that your character can often call a person his/her name even though they haven't been introduced to one another and this is the first time your character see/encounter/know them.

Fuck that last one was so terrible; it's like they just didn't even care :/

Agreed. It's staggering the amount of times my character wants to ask "What are synths?" and/or "What is the institute?" yet has a seeming superpower to discern facts that he should have no way to understand.

I suspected the conversation system would be worse, but I didn't think it'd be as bad as it is. Most of the conversations are really bad and the dialog now feels like a chore and something I have almost no control over... Like the result is pre-ordained and the only thing that changes is whether I reply positively, negatively, or sarcastically.. .But the result is the same.

A good example of this is on small sidequest in Goodneighbor that I played last night related to the Silver Shroud. I'll spoiler tag it but it's not important to the main story (As far as I can tell).

Spoiler

Silver Shroud radio tells me to go kill this guy who murdered someone recently. I see him from afar and approach him, and go to talk to him first. I have 4 choices, but all of them have the same result, basically all accounting to "I'm here to kill you." now, even in FO3 and New Vegas, I felt like the dialog trees weren't this deterministic... I felt like in FO3 or NV, I could tell the person "uhh, this radio station wants me to kill you... Should I?"

now continuing this small sidequest a few quest notches later...

Spoiler

I kill this one random raider and she has a contact on her person to kill a random named character out in the wastes... I have the contact, so this submission shows up on my map, with the random character pointed out to me. She's in a random military base that I had already cleared for a mission earlier in the game... Just standing there... surrounded by Ghouls. I clear out the ghouls and go up to her. ANd all she says is "I think someone's coming for me, don't bother me." No dialog. No nothing. I want to tell her "Yes I found this note on a raider's body to kill you... why?" But... there's nothing. So instead, I just leave and skip the XP for choosing to not kill them. This seemingly has no effect on the story or anything else in any way. It feels lazy and unfinished, seems so un-Fallout like.

 

[Etnos]

If you think about their body of work, Bethesda has really become a bottom-tier developer in the majority of aspects, yet has ownership of a formula that keeps people coming back for more.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Ohh common now...

Why jump into nonsense hyperbole?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Ohh common now...

Why jump into nonsense hyperbole?

Its not. They are bottom tier when it comes to storytelling and polishing.

 

[BlueLiquid]

Like the result is pre-ordained and the only thing that changes is whether I reply positively, negatively, or sarcastically.. .But the result is the same.

This is nearly the entire FO4 dialogue system in a nutshell, right here. Offhand the only time I can think of when what you say matters is

Spoiler

after Bunker Hill when you can go ahead and tell Father you're done working for The Institute or keep going along with him. But if I remember correctly, other than telling him outright that you deliberately let the synths go he'll still say "ok, we'll still trust you" and eventually still name you his successor.

 

[Anuson.Phan]

I Keep hearing bad things about the effort that went into this game..And after play an RPG that was crafted with love and care like the Witcher 3, i might have to skip Fallout 4..Can't go from playing high caliber RPGs to mid-tier ones.

 

[lazygecko]

I Keep hearing bad things about the effort that went into this game..And after play an RPG that was crafted with love and care like the Witcher 3, i might have to skip Fallout 4..Can't go from playing high caliber RPGs to mid-tier ones.

But the gunplay is better now! It still can't even come close to being as good as an actual contemporary FPS, but that still has to be a worthwhile tradeoff, right?!?

 

[WanderingWind]

I Keep hearing bad things about the effort that went into this game..And after play an RPG that was crafted with love and care like the Witcher 3, i might have to skip Fallout 4..Can't go from playing high caliber RPGs to mid-tier ones.

its gots guns tho