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[Miles Quaritch]

I figure bish deleted that other thread for a reason...

Not deleted.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=635306

 

[fastford58]

 

[Xater]

Disappointing but it's not going to change my console decision.

 

[NIGHT-]

Who cares, just play the fucking games. PC Master Race is the way to go if you love your graphics that much.

This! If you want the best graphics and performance, pc gaming is where it's at

 

[bud]

Tweets are from yesterday aren't they?

this thread is also kinda sorta from yesterday

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

We don't need you playing patrol. If you're not going to specifically call out people being disingenuous, then please don't post this at all. Let me know if this is unclear.

lol ok

I'm good. Not in the mood for thread-diving for quotes this morning. That'll be my last word on the subject of board opinions.

 

[beast786]

This is disappointing. But still be picking up the more powerful console at launch.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I really hope the people saying this is "not a big deal, totally expected, won't affect games" weren't in previous threads over the past few months calling MS and Nintendo a joke for their RAM allocations.

Not saying that Sony deserves to be reverse trolled but it's obvious that some Sony fans feel disappointed and some MS fans feel vindicated, because everyone had taken the 7 vs 5 comparison as gospel, even the major news sites.

It takes quite a bit of cognitive dissonance to hold MS over the flames for "lol 3GB non-gaming media box" while simultaneously championing Sony for their "forward thinking." If be amazed if their weren't as many posters expressing surprise. And to the insiders who have suddenly decided to share this with us and explain why it's not a big deal - thanks for nothing for the past 3 months of stupidity that you probably could have helped defuse.

If these rumors are true i hate that Sony keeping back so much ram for the OS.
It seems to me that Sony wants to keep back the ram to copy certain things MS might do with there OS .
I know they get burn last gen because of certain OS features MS had but i wish they do there own thing .

 

[HocusPocus]

I wonder what impact the EDRAM On the Xbox One will have now. They have similar amounts of Ram for games, with the PS4 obviously having the advantage with speed on the main system RAM. I wish I understood the tech of the EDRAM more.

I believe both companies will shrink their OS's over time as the systems age. Makes sense to see constant improvement. Wouldn't shock me to see another 7 to 8 year life cycle on these consoles unless Nintendo pulls a GameCube again with some impressive tech.

 

[ethomaz]

So any confirmation or just Leadbetter updating his article?

 

[Vestal]

We've seen the OS being used on-stage, it's clearly 'finished' in many ways.

I'm talking in regards to 'optimisation' of the OS, as well as the so-called 'future-proofing' of extra RAM.

Based on what shinobi said, the current build of the OS apparently takes up 1.5GB max. If Sony can trim it down to needing no more than 1GB, then I wouldn't be surprised if the OS allocation is only 2GB by the end of the day.

And then 'future-proofing.' This part is basically just how paranoia Sony will be. If they're no paranoid at all, 512MB for future proofing is more than enough, but it seems that they'll reserve at least 1GB for this.

we saw an actual demonstration of the OS and not a video?? Can you link it please??

 

[OldAsUrSock]

someone needs to show me how to make gifs

Use gifcam or video gif converter to grab what you want. Then use photoshop(CS2 is free), Lunapic editor, or GIMP to add text, effects, etc... to your file(s).

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Just another nail on consoles for me. I was extremely disappointed from the beginning knowing these "next-gen" systems won't even be able to provide 1080p/60fps for most games. We waited 10 years to jump from 720p to 1080p?

When Valve decides to unveil its Steambox pc-console hybrid next year I just hope that will be the end of consoles as we know them.

LOL.

 

[JonathanPower]

We've seen the OS being used on-stage, it's clearly 'finished' in many ways.

I'm talking in regards to 'optimisation' of the OS, as well as the so-called 'future-proofing' of extra RAM.

Based on what shinobi said, the current build of the OS apparently takes up 1.5GB max. If Sony can trim it down to needing no more than 1GB, then I wouldn't be surprised if the OS allocation is only 2GB by the end of the day.

And then 'future-proofing.' This part is basically just how paranoia Sony will be. If they're no paranoid at all, 512MB for future proofing is more than enough, but it seems that they'll reserve at least 1GB for this.

And of that 1.5GB, 1GB is supposed to be used just for video recording, thus leaving just 512MB for the actual OS.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

we saw an actual demonstration of the OS and not a video?? Can you link it please??

Whether or not he's saying truth or half truth's, that's not stuff they are showing yet.

The only bit of information I could gather is that the SW is progressing well on the PS4. That means system SW. Games are going as normal but there is still a learning curve as this is new HW after all.

And of that 1.5GB, 1GB is supposed to be used just for video recording, thus leaving just 512MB for the actual OS.

None of that is nailed down and final so let's not take it as fact. I would suspect a minimum of 2GB fo OS and recording functions but the bulk will be for fast multitasking.

 

[Neuromancer]

It wasn't just a bad dream. =(

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

People are really over-reacting to all of this. Remember that the PS3 RAM had like 8 times less than that they allow on the PS4.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

 

[Alaskanbullworm]

 

[thuway]

I was ok with 1GB "flex memory" but only 512MB? Pre-order cancelled.

Disappointing, really. I guess Next Gen cancelled

Good lord. This is even worse than I imagined.

What happened to the original 5.5GB?

Where are all them gigabytes going?

How can the OS demand so many gigabytes?

Very disappointing after the hype.

4.5 GB of RAM of which a substantial amount goes to the gpu. Still superior to the shitfest that is Xbone I guess (latency wise) but why does Sony need so much memory for the OS. I thought this was gonna be a gaming machine.

Sony should really respond quickly to this mess.

So.... 4.5 gb. Amazing, almost 50%! The gig is up Sony. So disappointing.

This fucking sucks :/

Jonathan Blow is a whny bitch. All that cash he took from Sony has fckued his MS comments up. Poor boy

Still sounds like devkits with not enough RAM, but I dunno.

the giant GDDR5 pool was the last remnant of kutaragian magic to the machine. any accusations of modest specs, conservative design and a less than stellar leap were swept under the cognitive rug by the broom of GDDR5 majesty.

i think this is why it's hitting some people so hard. 4.5GBs is much more in line with the rest of the machine's gaming capabilities.

Exactly this isn't about if it's more powerful than Xbox One, of course it still is better than Xbox One as it has better GPU flops and better RAM as well as being cheaper system. But that's not the point, I still am getting a PS4 but it is disappointing that the RAM os now 4.5 instead of 6.5 which I assumed.

these systems just keep moving closer and closer together.

Rumoured flexible ram amount went down by 50% and my disappointment increased by 100%.

At this point I'm seriously wondering would remote play alongside who-the-fuck-asked-for-it "15" minutes of HD recording be really be that resource intensive so as to overshadow the ram requirements of a box that does more for media functionality via cable tv and kinect.

Yesterday, the OS didn't look like a bloat-ware but with the addition of an extra 512MB it is starting to.

If only I had vulcan like clarity. Perhaps then instead of feeling resentful, I'd logically just cancel my game preorders save up money for a gaming PC (innately jack of all trades) instead of buying both machines whose manufacturers are forgot assign an identity to their "gaming" device.

So am I right in saying that PS4 has 4.5Gb for games and Xbox One has 5.5Gb?

So basically the xbone is a better system?

This is disappointing if true. Truth be told, I don't really care about recording the last 15 mins of my gameplay and nor do I care about streaming my gameplay on ustream (and I doubt the majority of PS4 owners do as well) and I'm guessing those two things take up a lot of memory.

This is disappointing if true. Truth be told, I don't really care about recording the last 15 mins of my gameplay and nor do I care about streaming my gameplay on ustream (and I doubt the majority of PS4 owners do as well) and I'm guessing those two things take up a lot of memory.

Well I made my views clear last night. Im not happy investing in this system now until it has proven itself. Sony has lost a day one purchase.

So this was actually true? Man, Sony is really bad at this shit...

Very disappointing news to say the least.

Stage 1: Denial.

Shitty PR by Sony.

Although it was never confirmed, we were lead to believed that the RAM for the OS could be about 1GB. And the message boards ran with that for four months.

Here we are on this weekend finding out, possibly, well you know developers were always guaranteed 4.5Gb. So that leaves 3.5GB for the OS.

Why the fuck didnt you just say that in February?

Amazing. Absolutely breathtaking. This is some Beyond3D levels of ignorance here. Sony has went out of their way to please developers who were celebrating a faux-Christmas on February 20th. However, it isn't enough. Sony has to now please the armchair programmers on GAF because they know whats better for games than the creators themselves.

Let this list be a reminder.

 

[Invalid GR]

I just don't get it.Playstation 4 has 8 GB ram and almost half of it is reserved for OS functions. How much would be available to devs if it was released with 4 GB?

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

While I do think this amount of ram reserved for the OS is a waste, I feel we MIGHT have exaggerated since these numbers are not guaranteed to stay the same throughout this gen. I mean if they optimize the OS they can allocate more ram for games in the future (like they did with the XMB) but they couldn't really start with 7 gigs for games and roll back if they need more ram for the OS.

All I am trying to say is that futureproofness might have not been as compromised as we think.

 

[Skull Leader]

ITT: A bunch of non-developers trying to convince themselves that they know more about game development than actual developers working on both the Bone and the PS4 who are actually very happy to have this level of resources available to them.

 

[SparkTR]

Fucking haha. I love Steam and all being a PC gamer most of my life but give me a break. I got Dishonored on the sale and installed it yesterday This is one of the more "console-friendly" PC games.

Downloading...
Step 1/5: Installing Microsoft Direct X for Windows (even though it's been installed 100x already)
Step 2/5: Installing Microsoft Visual C++ runtime libraries
Step 3/5: Installing XNA
Step 4/5: Some other PC shit
Step 5/5: Some other PC shit
Launch game.
Change video settings.
Play game for 2 mins
Tweak video settings.

It's fine for people like your and I but it's never going to be as easy as the consoles for normal people. Not gonna happen.

I see where you're coming from, and I would have agreed with you a while ago, but Valve and software developers have made all that stuff automatic these days, even down to selecting graphics settings based on your hardware. What you described is an automatic process which takes maybe 2 minutes. There are outlier products and games, I do agree with that.

 

[dapoktan]

Game journo is really becoming TMZ-like... Marcus on GT just went on a Harvey Levin type TMZ rant, calling Fish and Blow nasty names cuz they refused to comment on the rumor story... blegh.. nearly threatened not to cover their games in the future.. -.-

 

[Vashetti]

Hope this isn't a stupid question, but if MS managed cross-game chat in the 360 with 32MB of RAM for the OS, why can't Sony do the same with 120MB (now reduced to 50MB) on the PS3?

Is it because of the split 256MB/256MB as opposed to the 360's 512MB?

Another question: Is it possible for Sony to reduce that 50MB any further?

Would be cool to allow devs to squeeze any last juice out of the PS3.

 

[Dennis]

Sony, you had one job.

To out-RAM Microsoft.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

That's a whole lot of quotes.

 

[i-Lo]

Amazing. Absolutely breathtaking. This is some Beyond3D levels of ignorance here.

If you're going to shame me, perhaps that won't be the only time.

 

[GSG Flash]

This is disappointing if true. Truth be told, I don't really care about recording the last 15 mins of my gameplay and nor do I care about streaming my gameplay on ustream (and I doubt the majority of PS4 owners do as well) and I'm guessing those two things take up a lot of memory.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

So I'm going to wait for an official answer because this is just going places I don't want to be apart of. This one says this, this one says that. Why doesn't the OP just add in there as well (No official word from Sony) so we don't go into a whole new 100+page thread making up stuff/convincing ourselves about things we don't even know

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I can't wait until we have the systems so there are actually games, services, interfaces, and other tangible things to discuss. Because that's all that matters in the end.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

H
Is it because of the split 256MB/256MB as opposed to the 360's 512MB?

That's what I heard.

 

[Torrod]

But are the games any fun? That is the question.

 

[Facism]

Amazing. Absolutely breathtaking. This is some Beyond3D levels of ignorance here. Sony has went out of their way to please developers who were celebrating a faux-Christmas on February 20th. However, it isn't enough. Sony has to now please the armchair programmers on GAF because they know whats better for games than the creators themselves.

Let this list be a reminder.

quite the wall of shame there.

 

[Alucrid]

as a poster on the neogaf subreddit i know that an os shouldnt need more than 64mb of the gddsr4ram4fast and that any allocation higher than the not only means that the playstation four is a weak console but that sony dont know what they are doing. i might have trusted them when they said yes to used games or when they made the new controller fantastic but this flop of properly allocated memory i cannot concede to. im just going to buy a wii u now.

 

[pixlexic]

Amazing. Absolutely breathtaking. This is some Beyond3D levels of ignorance here.

umm a few of those were comments taken from previous threads with the XBone and ps4 switched around.

 

[Wind's Howling]

How quickly these threads get filled when it is has a somewhat 'negative' subject about the PS4 or Xbone is staggering to say the least. The small amount of fanboyism in all of these threads about the RAM is quite sad as well.

Luckily the majority of the people know that 4.5GB of RAM will be enough for the next generation, even if the future PC titles will need 5-6GB eventually.

I guess some do not realize that the moment the PS3 and 360 got released, 512 MB was so outdated that developers laughed about it.

If developers now-a-days complain about the lack of RAM on consoles they are not doing their job. Last of Us is a prime example of how a small amount of RAM can still create a wonderful experience with a decent performance.

On an added note; Sony needs to step up their game with their UI and OS so I can see why they wanted to use so much RAM for it. They were always two steps behind in comparison with the 360.

 

[HyperV]

I wonder what impact the EDRAM On the Xbox One will have now. They have similar amounts of Ram for games, with the PS4 obviously having the advantage with speed on the main system RAM. I wish I understood the tech of the EDRAM more.

Its 32MB of ESRAM. 32MB doesn't sound like a lot but its more then enough to be used as a frame buffer, or for Devs to put textures to be rendered at high speed (compared to System RAM). Its not as simple as the PS4's setup but its worked nicely for the 360 for years.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think the changing OS footprint of the PS4 changes things that much as far as 'impact' is concerned.

 

[Vestal]

Hope this isn't a stupid question, but if MS managed cross-game chat in the 360 with 32MB of RAM for the OS, why can't Sony do the same with 120MB (now reduced to 50MB) on the PS3?

Is it because of the split 256MB/256MB as opposed to the 360's 512MB?

Another question: Is it possible for Sony to reduce that 50MB any further?

Would be cool to allow devs to squeeze any last juice out of the PS3.

software company vs hardware company.

the above is part of it as well as how you design the OS from the get go. Microsoft designed the 360 OS with those things in mind.

 

[Dennis]

But are the games any fun? That is the question.

Well, it is A question but it is not the question addressed in this thread.

But the rule of thumb is that for fun you need at least 6GB of RAM so it may be touch and go.

 

[SneakyStephan]

people seem to easily forget what has been already achieved in current gen with just 512mb

cinematic framerates, sub hd resolutions, heavy screentearing, poor texture filtering, pop in out the ass, zero multitasking ability (and I mean ZERO ,can't even dl a game in the background or listen to some music...) , no real AA...

Not much was achieved with 512MB

 

[cyberheater]

Amazing. Absolutely breathtaking. This is some Beyond3D levels of ignorance here.

So glad you included me. I would have felt left out. And mine was a question. Not a observation. Try reading next time?

 

[watership]

I hate these threads. So much FUD, misconceptions, misunderstandings and incorrect information gets passed around.
I await(dread) the first post that states
"this mean ps4 had 0 ram for games before 8gb lololol"
in a serious fashion.

First somewhat negative story the PS4 has had. Whether it being Xbox fans enjoying the negative light being on the ps4 after months of their console being shit on, or PS fans losing it over someone daring to say negative things about the god-tier console. Let us not forget that gaf loves drama, regardless of the subject or target.

 

[kikonawa]

99.999% of gamers dont give a crap.. you shouldnt too

 

[Kinyou]

ITT: A bunch of non-developers trying to convince themselves that they know more about game development than actual developers working on both the Bone and the PS4 who are actually very happy to have this level of resources available to them.

Except for Joe Blow. He made it sound like 5 GB aren't enough for AAA games

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

The Apocalypse is uncancelled.

Day One.

 

[biggersmaller]

As I said in the last thread, this is great for reliability if the 15 minutes of video caching is to RAM vs HDD.

Based on my experience of having a gaming PC, I believe there is more than enough RAM dedicated to run a single game. I also read many developers praising the PS4 hardware openly and enthusiastically without even mentioning this as an issue.

 

[twobear]

I'm actually happy, since it means that the PS4 will iterate on all the OS stuff that I hoped it would. I was not at all in the 'it should be a GAMES MACHINE not a MEDIA BOX I would rather it had no OS at all and had 7GB for games'. I want a box that sings, dances and makes me coffee: the most significant pieces of technology in my life have been my PC and my iPhone, both multi-purpose devices. I probably do more non-gaming stuff on my PS3 than gaming, and now I feel like I have to choose between an all-singing-all-dancing Xbone and a PS4 that I only ever turn on to play Elder Scrolls V.

Anyone who thought that Sony could do with 1GB of OS RAM usage what MS were doing with 3GB of OS RAM usage was kidding themselves, and their using a similar amount means hopefully similar features. I can understand the disappointment from people who sincerely believed Sony's 'we're putting gaming first' PR fluff and believed it would have a PS2-style 'games only' approach, though. But I'm happy they're not doing it, and I'm happy to not be buying that.

 

[Claude Kenni]

edit: redoing post to be on the new page