No but people expected Kingdom Hearts for years.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
FFXV - Combat Patent Analysis
- Thread starter Lady Bird
- Start date
No but people expected Kingdom Hearts for years.
Nightengale
Member
Those people are put under the bus.
Together with Nomura.
Man, I feel bad for the guy. His vision being scrapped was one bad enough turn of events , but all the passive aggressive PR of Tabata "saving" the project and implying it was in development hell because he wasn't there was harsh.
Sigh.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't necessarily disagree with you. But at the same time I understand why they're trying to evolve the idea of turn-based combat. I would totally love more ATB-based combat systems and you're right that those can even be further perfected, but I'm not going to condemn them for trying new things, pass or fail. I know plenty of people that downright despised the junction system in FFVIII, and I didn't absolutely love junctioning, but it didn't hurt the game much.
Trust me. I'm a PhD
Member
I remember hating (just a little^^) on the XIII system before going hands on with it. I think this is another that sounds really poor at a glance, but offers a good amount of depth for those who want to find it. We will know in March, so it won't be long now^^
I sympathize with that. I wanted it too, but it's like, what can we do? Tabata doesn't know how to sell it in interviews, but if this patent filing is anything to go buy, they're still trying something interesting that could be pretty fast and pretty tactical.
I just want a game that's good.
silvermember
Banned
Anybody that has been around gaming a lot should not by that how things sound on paper isn't necessarily how it plays out in real life. You can speculate all you want, but it really especially in this case doesn't mean much except cause certain types unnecessary anger.
All those games that sounded cool until release.
So far he seems to be doing more damage to the game than actually helping it.
Initially, his presence was a welcome change to the anti-nomura crowd but he keeps putting his foot in his mouth with each interview. And which each interview comes across as an.
Then again maybe he is just overrating due to the fact that he is in the spotlight for once. I dunno but he is bad at selling the game.
Callibretto
Member
Yeah, sucks for Nomura, isn't there an article or interview back in the day where nomura sound really excited to be trusted to make a final fantasy game?
frostshade
Neo Member
So, set up gambits.
Gambits are highly advanced in this game as opposed to FF12.
Some way to shuffle around between different gambits (cycle through them via L1 and R1 hopefully)
Combination attacks based on location and other criterion.
Hold to execute a chain of attacks based on the pre-set gambits.
Change gambits mid battle to add more depth.
Why is this being advertised as an action game?
Looks more like SRPG material to me. :X
At this point, only the level progression system will make or break this game to those disappointed by this new battle system.
Gambits are highly advanced in this game as opposed to FF12.
Some way to shuffle around between different gambits (cycle through them via L1 and R1 hopefully)
Combination attacks based on location and other criterion.
Hold to execute a chain of attacks based on the pre-set gambits.
Change gambits mid battle to add more depth.
Why is this being advertised as an action game?
Looks more like SRPG material to me. :X
At this point, only the level progression system will make or break this game to those disappointed by this new battle system.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Well technically speaking it was in development hell.
AlfredX1990
Banned
1st: it's being advertised as Action RPG, this is because the fighting system is in real time
2nd: strategy is not limited to SRPGs
Callibretto
Member
gambit in ff xii is already very complicated to me. I hope this doesn't make it even more complex. I'm not even sure how casual supposed to be able to understand gambit easily. it's so easy to make a wrong gambit setupt that will just frustrate you instead of helping you during battle.
Nightengale
Member
You're absolutely right.
But considering that the alternative right now is we're judging the battle system based off vague statements, short demos without context of what's pressed and controversial words like one-button and casual...
Thus some of us being skeptical, but still holding out for the demo or a clearer explanation. Because what we have going right now informs nothing about the intricacies of the battle system, only a portion of the basics.
AlfredX1990
Banned
Am I the only one that found gambits extremely easy to understand and make good setups?
Is it because I know programming?
silvermember
Banned
Btw I meant both ways. So exactly what you guys are doing as well. This could turn out better than anticipated or it could just be as bad.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Really gunna have to see this shit in motion. On paper is sounds...okay I guess?????
frostshade
Neo Member
I'd like to see that day when Dark Souls combat becomes the standard for classifying ARPGS.
Meant more along the lines of, if I were to consider it an action game or strategy game, I'd choose strategy game in a heartbeat.
Anyways, thanks for the response.
#TeamNomuraisdead
Callibretto
Member
I understand the concept just fine, and I had no problem with setup when fighting usual mobs. it's when I got to boss battles that it really overwhelmed me and I'm not even sure what I did wrong with my setup, don't even know where to begin changing the setup to make it better.
Nightengale
Member
You're right. But that's why it's an analysis and a discussion stemming from it, based of understanding of a laid out concept.
Nobody's claiming this patent means XV will be great. But it's a real alternative avenue to look at the battle system from a different perspective than the PR vagueness currently spouted in interviews.
Sign
Member
I found them very intuitive long before I started taking cs classes. Maybe this game will let me have a decent steal set up >.<.
Random Fact: You don't have to specify an ailment to use curative items. Ally: Any == Antidote will cure any party member that gets poisoned for example.
Were you using Decoy?
Lucent
Member
Mhmm. That's what I'm waiting on.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Well, surely there's a lot of action going on in the battles!
First time I played FF12 I failed miserably at understanding the Gambit system. Put it down for like a year and picked it up and it clicked. All the > and < and how to make the gambits run combat for you.
XII is fairly popular. A lot of its fans just happen not to exactly be series followers.
Like I said in the other thread, if it plays like this I'm fine with it.
Yeah, if the combat is about chaining together "combos" then I'm fine with it. I'm still not sure how I feel about Final Fantasy going in that direction but it still sounds better than hold O to attack hold X to dodge.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
So basically anyone can complete "input operations" easily with the press of a button, but to make the "input operations" effective, you need to use them at the appropriate times, and gambits (edit: at least that's what we're calling them until they have a name) determine the behaviour of the battles and what operations you get?
Like I said in the other thread, if it plays like this I'm fine with it.
Looking at this gif, I don't think that its one hold and then a press, I think that whole attack was just one chain attack. The transition from one goblin to another looks so smooth, I think that since Noctis knocked the first goblin out of his range the attack chain switched automatically to the next target.
This is pretty much what I have been expecting. Could be great depending on how certain aspects are handled.
As duckroll has suggested, it sounds like the 'active' gameplay will be largely about managing context.
I am assuming there is another big subsystem involved somewhere; hopefully something better than the Paradigm Shift system.
As duckroll has suggested, it sounds like the 'active' gameplay will be largely about managing context.
I am assuming there is another big subsystem involved somewhere; hopefully something better than the Paradigm Shift system.
SoulUnison
Banned
If it's really just Kingdom Hearts + Gambits, I'm down.
Kingdom Hearts + Final Fantasy XII?
Two of my favorite games might be two great tastes that go great together.
Kingdom Hearts + Final Fantasy XII?
Two of my favorite games might be two great tastes that go great together.
Look at the commands in the left menu, it goes back to neutral after the first chain.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I don't think so. It really doesn't have KH gameplay any more.
The mobility and speed of this game is very Kingdom Hearts, especially if Noctis pulls off those moves from the 2013 trailer.
Callibretto
Member
already forgot what my setup is, I've been thinking to try playing that game again and actually beat it, but still hoping there will be HD remake soon
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
But it won't play like it at all. button inputs and no jumping makes it very difficult to compare to KH. It's definitely not KH+gambits.
UltraGunner
Banned
What's worse is that his name is probably not gonna be anywhere on the credits.
KCroxtonJr
Member
If that gif is correct, then it seems like in order to combo with a specific action you HAVE to hold that button down. When you let go, then the action can/will change into a different action.
That would explain what happens in the gif, he first attacks with the two handed sword based on the distance from that enemy, and decides to combo it by holding it down, then decides to switch that to the one handed sword attack for a quicker attack at the enemy to the side by letting go of O, causing the action to switch from the two handed sword attack because the distance is now closer to an enemy to the one handed, and then presses O to initiate the one handed sword attack. They could have continued to hold down O from the start and did the third attack on the enemy to the side with the two handed sword if they wanted to instead of letting go to change the attack.
If this is how it works, I can see it actually being pretty fun, but I'm still worried that it might be really easy to accidentally do the wrong thing with this system.
It's gonna be on the title screen. Like many other FF games. For some reason SE thinks Character Designer is literally the most important job.
Tabata came in during 2012. Who knows? Maybe the battle system was drastically different in 2013 and we didn't notice it. Looking back, there are some clear cues.
It kinda is in my opinion. When you think Final Fantasy, you think of Nomura's iconic character designs.
Well thanks OP, that certainly bring back some hype. I'm still curious however on how they woud handle summon. Hopefully they just didn't scrap it all together. I don't like how KH handle summon, so i hope it would be just one super strong attack instead of the summon being a party member.
Didn't even notice that. Wow, transitions between button press attacks look smooth as hell.
What's stopping someone from pressing the attack button consecutively instead of holding then? Is holding attack make your combos faster?
Releasing the button breaks the animation and the powerful attack chain. Quick button presses are for sudden attacks, like this one.
Like here, you see that Noctis has to stun the enemy with his sword so that Gladiolus can KO him pretty easily. Party mechanics like this would be great since there's nothing canned about this sequence.
Nightengale
Member
Maybe combos are only possible with holding? Transition between presses being smooth doesn't necessarily mean you can combo with it.
Releasing the button breaks the animation and the powerful attack chain. Quick button presses are for sudden attacks, like this one.
Like here, you see that Noctis has to stun the enemy with his sword so that Gladiolus can KO him pretty easily. Party mechanics like this would be great since there's nothing canned about this sequence.
That makes more sense, I blanked out right there.