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Infinite said:
Yeah. I also like the guilty gear school of balancing too. They give their characters ridiculous ass shit that if they were in any other game they would be S++ tier easy. but because every character is capable of their own bullshit and you have universal options of dealing with that bullshit it works out, somehow. So in that sense the system is being designed against the characters instead of the characters being designed against each other.
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This is how I would design a game. It lets you make insane ass characters and lets you make a HUGE variety of characters where one character is bound to fit for someone
 
Man I can't play on those moniters to save my life. It's like I have to relearn any combos I do because the timing is so different. Is mad discouraging knowing I can't play the way I play at home because the timing is different.
Then again I do play on a 40" TV which might not be the best but still Fuuuuuuuuuuuuq.

Gotta play the most basic Deejay play to try get far and just knowing that I can't do half the shit I want makes me a


S A D B O Y
 
I kinda enjoy playing as a different type of Guile. I just hate how every one of his moves get stuffed so easily when trying to anti air.
 
Infinite said:
Yeah. I also like the guilty gear school of balancing too. They give their characters ridiculous ass shit that if they were in any other game they would be S++ tier easy. but because every character is capable of their own bullshit and you have universal options of dealing with that bullshit it works out, somehow. So in that sense the system is being designed against the characters instead of the characters being designed against each other.
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That's like my least favorite style and the reason I usually don't like ArcSys games. I don't mind the crazy design but balancing it turns out to be shit most of the time.
 
Keits said:
This is my style, and imo, the correct way to make sure your game is super fun.
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Yeah I remember you and Skisonics saying something similar to this on an SRK Weekly podcast. I said to myself "this guy understands". Goodluck with KI

Dahbomb said:
That's also the MVC3 school of thought. Every character in the game has some game breaking element to them that if put in another game would dominate everyone else.

If you put Iron Fist in SF4 or SFxT he would dominate. He would whiff punish you from near full screen and then kill you with his absurd ground mobility, forward moving normals and high base damage.

Or Ghost Rider who zones you with disjointed full screen normals. Characters in a SF-esque game would never get past Heartless Spire.

Even Hsien Ko and Phoenix Wright would be absurd in another game. Hsien Ko has really powerful defensive normals (multi hitting, very active) and super armor hyper while PW becomes broken in his final form.
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Yeah marvel definitely is of this school of thought. Like when I saw Vjoes voomerang pressure I was like "wow this is fucking OD!" but other characters are capable of shit that's just as silly if not more so it works out. Only thing is marvel is a team game so that introduces new dynamics. So now I have this sick Voomerang pressure with hidden missles or Varja or Plasma beam. It just makes the game fun that way.

QisTopTier said:
This is how I would design a game. It lets you make insane ass characters and lets you make a HUGE variety of characters where one character is bound to fit for someone
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This is why I gravitate towards games like this. You can find a character that suits you easy and every character is designed around something instead of against something so you see interesting play styles and match ups.
 
Shouta said:
That's like my least favorite style and the reason I usually don't like ArcSys games. I don't mind the crazy design but balancing it turns out to be shit most of the time.
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You can do it a bit more reservedly/uniformly, like with KOF for example. There, too, the universal systems allow the characters to be strong with much less worry about minute balancing.

Though, really, just making strong characters is the key thing IMO. Tone stuff down too much is just dull, but the constant cry of "nerf, nerf!" is hard to resist.

But yeah, strong varied characters. I had trouble finding a nice fit in SF4. KOF13, I have to tierwhore just so I can stay focused for now instead of playing all the things. What little I've learned of GG has also been fun as hell, you can just do so much crazy stuff (this low-damage midrange poking guy's standard corner pressure initiation button? Oh, just +15 on block. And then there's Eddie... >:) )


btw, Keits, introduced some friends to Divekick AE and had a blast of an evening. Even got a friend who's not regularly into 1v1 comp gaming stuff salty and wanting more ^__^
 
Horseress said:
The five gods are coming!

fivegods-622.png
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4 of them came last year and they fixed Chun.. I wonder how Nuki will do now..
 
With the points to balance, the way you balance games like those is you have certain boundaries/loose rules and universal mechanics to counteract certain character elements. I guess a loose example would be Injustice. Every character in that game has absurd tools and they are usually defined by them. But when balancing they usually have certain soft rules like if there's a combo that's a TOD it will get patched. Or if you have a move that is extremely spammable at high level and too difficult to counter even with system mechanics (like the Superman eye beam or the Scorpion teleport shenanigans).
 
Guilty Gear is one of the few fighting games that gets "let's go crazy" balancing right. I don't understand it. I wonder if it's just the community that makes it seem that way. I mean, Eddie/Zato-1 is almost always crazy good, yet not only does the scene thrive, it always has huge character variety.

I almost feel like the lack of wake-up options helps so many characters do well if they knock down their opponent.
No matter how top tier you are, you get knocked down and it's time to guess, asshole.
 
GooeyHeat said:
Guilty Gear is one of the few fighting games that gets "let's go crazy" balancing right. I don't understand it. I wonder if it's just the community that makes it seem that way. I mean, Eddie/Zato-1 is almost always crazy good, yet not only does the scene thrive, it always has huge character variety.

I almost feel like the lack of wake-up options helps so many characters do well if they knock down their opponent.
No matter how top tier you are, you get knocked down and it's time to guess, asshole.
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Hiding powerful stuff behind execution barriers helps even out stuff at lower-level play.
 
I think it's because each character in guilty gear has a very unique element to them. No character is close or plays similar to the other. I think that is what gives guilty gear such a variety of characters being played
 
irfaanator said:
I think it's because each character in guilty gear has a very unique element to them. No character is close or plays similar to the other. I think that is what gives guilty gear such a variety of characters being played
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Yeah in guilty gear it's an entirely different game to each character. Injustice too.
 
Justin
Kbrad
ChiRithy
Ray Ray
Noel
Snafoo
Ed Ma
Joker


Here's a link to the brackets

I'm actually gonna try and play iwth this shitty hand tomorrow because Im already registered
 
GooeyHeat said:
Guilty Gear is one of the few fighting games that gets "let's go crazy" balancing right. I don't understand it. I wonder if it's just the community that makes it seem that way. I mean, Eddie/Zato-1 is almost always crazy good, yet not only does the scene thrive, it always has huge character variety.

I almost feel like the lack of wake-up options helps so many characters do well if they knock down their opponent.
No matter how top tier you are, you get knocked down and it's time to guess, asshole.
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haHAA!
 
kirblar said:
Hiding powerful stuff behind execution barriers helps even out stuff at lower-level play.
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I feel that's lazy or bad design tbh. For one thing you're making it harder for intermediate players to become adept with the game and characters and potentially become high level players. Another thing is it becomes an issue at high level play where you expect everyone to be on point with their execution so that balance is no longer there. I think it's better to design from high level play down instead from low level play up. The latter gives you Brawl. And I know some people love their hard to do combos just for the challenge and the thrill of completing it in a match I just don't think that it should be require to get the most out of a character and that it should also be inline with actual game balance. Hiding stuff behind execution barriers for that reason is contrived.
 
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