BibiMaghoo
Member
There is no evidence of them ever having sex in any game, compilation material, or anything else. This is speculation. Why are you and others stating it like fact? Because you interpret a conversation choice that way?
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Final Fantasy 7 Remake Announced (First on PS4)
- Thread starter NeOak
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There is no evidence of them ever having sex in any game, compilation material, or anything else. This is speculation. Why are you and others stating it like fact? Because you interpret a conversation choice that way?
Stone Ocean
Member
Yeah, I'm sure Cloud and Tifa just spent all night watching the stars or some shit when everyone was off making amends in case they didn't survive the fight with Sephiroth
Come on now
Come on now
Meccanical
Member
Hoo boy...is it winter yet?
To be fair, it does seem that's what they're implying with the high affinity scene. The creators comments about how it was originally a barn but they found that far too risqué shows their intention.
But as I've pointed out, they sure overlooked many things to fit their point and one of those things is that they actually stated the highwind had two options. So they never confirmed the sex scene as canon.
Actually this is wrong. The creators have said that Cloud and Tifa are having problems because of things that don't involve Geostigma, Denzel nor Sephiroth. So it's absolutely fair to come to a conclusion they aren't together and are having difficulties.
Other than the fact you're responding to obvious baiting(most of which I'm highly amused by since it's who it's in response to) but it's kind of funny because Tifa admits to having motherly feelings for Cloud and doesn't know how to handle them. Though I take that as her rationalizing her relationship with Cloud and why it's not going the way she wants it to.
Yes but that's not the point. It's that Cloud can continue loving Aeris and stay single, especially when he's still deeply connected to her. It could go either way but it's not as simple as just "well ones dead so there's your anwser" type thing.Cloud certainly loved Austin Powers. There's no doubting that. However that doesn't mean he can't love someone else. Someone that is alive right now. That he also has a deep relationship with. Someone with black hair and a rockin' bod perhaps.
Come on. Did you even read the posts he was responding to? No one wants to treat anything like that seriously, even if I did.
We're talking about keeping this a good discussion but you can't have that with false and dismissive posts like the one Alex responded to.
Uh you do realize this is an option that can happen right?
Open-world seems impossible for FFVII because it's set across the whole planet. People think it'll be open-world because FFXV is, but FFXV is set on a single land mass:
It's not even a full continent. The FFVII map, on the other hand:
So even considering that open worlds are small in scale as standard, they really couldn't do a modern open world believably. I think the best idea would just be to modernise the 'world map' design from the original as much as they could. Make it really massive, take advantage of the high vantage point to decrease the visual quality in a way that doesn't hurt so much, and have different options for the player avatar. You could choose to have an old-school giant Cloud the size of a town, or the whole party rendered to-scale (they would be VERY tiny, barely visible, and would probably need a light ring around them) with 100x walking speed. Have visible enemies depicted the same way as the party.
Open-world seems impossible for FFVII because it's set across the whole planet. People think it'll be open-world because FFXV is, but FFXV is set on a single land mass:
It's not even a full continent. The FFVII map, on the other hand:
So even considering that open worlds are small in scale as standard, they really couldn't do a modern open world believably. I think the best idea would just be to modernise the 'world map' design from the original as much as they could. Make it really massive, take advantage of the high vantage point to decrease the visual quality in a way that doesn't hurt so much, and have different options for the player avatar. You could choose to have an old-school giant Cloud the size of a town, or the whole party rendered to-scale (they would be VERY tiny, barely visible, and would probably need a light ring around them) with 100x walking speed. Have visible enemies depicted the same way as the party.
i really do hope we have a world map in the remake, not only bcause of going from town to town, but because of that moment when we finallt leave midgar for the first time, or watching the midgar zolom in the swamps, or the ultima weapon flying around while you are in the highwind, or the diamond weapon evnt where it starts to slowly come out of the ocean and walking slowly toward midgar, or other stuff like the buggie crashing down near cosmo canyon, going to the depths of the sea with the submarine, etc
BibiMaghoo
Member
Yes, because in either scenario, they wake cuddling up to each other under the stars, unless you are suggesting they had sex in either case, even with zero affinity towards Tifa. The only factual difference between each scene is what is said before they wake, and what is said when they return to the highwind. The morning is the same regardless.
I can only go with what is in the game. Aeris was originally supposed to be Sephiroths lover at one point, sibling at another, but clearly that isn't in the game or any kind of canon. I dispute only that "it's clear they had sex", because it isn't at all, and it's slightly disturbing that people assume because two characters share an intimate moment, they must have had a grind in front of all their mates. I can't get behind that at all.
nelsonroyale
Member
Open-world seems impossible for FFVII because it's set across the whole planet. People think it'll be open-world because FFXV is, but FFXV is set on a single land mass:
It's not even a full continent. The FFVII map, on the other hand:
So even considering that open worlds are small in scale as standard, they really couldn't do a modern open world believably. I think the best idea would just be to modernise the 'world map' design from the original as much as they could. Make it really massive, take advantage of the high vantage point to decrease the visual quality in a way that doesn't hurt so much, and have different options for the player avatar. You could choose to have an old-school giant Cloud the size of a town, or the whole party rendered to-scale (they would be VERY tiny, barely visible, and would probably need a light ring around them) with 100x walking speed. Have visible enemies depicted the same way as the party.
If they made it open world, they could just make the world more condensed. I don't doubt that FFXV will be a much bigger game than the original FFVII in terms of the actual size of teh world, and I expect there to be a lot of locations as well...I don't see a problem making FFVII open world, but just making the space between regions appropriate not to make it too humungous...
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, the space between the gas station and the forest where you track Behemoth in Episode Duscae is already about twice that of the distance from Midgar -> Kalm in terms of how long it takes to get there. FFVII's world is smaller. I mean, I guess they could theoretically make it "realistically scaled" like XV's, but like has been pointed out, that's not really viable for a number of reasons.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The trailer had road signs with the Midgar-Kalm and Midgar-Junon distances, so if fans really want to estimate the size of the FFVII planet they can based on these.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The tech is absolutely there to make a real representation of FF7s world with no loading screens and able to travel via Highwind. I think the question is whether its in the budget and can they make that huge world fun to traverse.
BibiMaghoo
Member
If I had the time spare, I would try and recreate the world map in Unity to see how it comes out. I definitely agree though, it can be done.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
This is going to get the treatment of a mainline game. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
It's ambiguous and that's it. If you want to imagine he ends up with Tifa then the creators still allow the possibility but they aren't canon and SE had made it clear they support both couples as options(even If I personally feel they push Aeris more) and I have no idea how a picnic between them all is a point but okay.
Trust me, I get what you're saying. The sex scene and what it means to certain fans is shallow and out of place for two characters still trying to work on themselves. If anything, the more intimate moment would be them falling asleep together after having a serious conversation about their lives possibly ending. Could that also relate to sex? Sure, but that means it's coming from feeling rushed.
But the thing is, most signs indicate that a sex scene IS an option even thought it hasn't actually been stated. It could definitely be SE miswording what they meant and that they actually were just saying they fell asleep together but when you think of the context of the barn they were originally going to use and how they're tying it into the highwind scene, the implications are there.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Really? I thought more people would like to see more body type representation in games. I frankly hope they do keep Tifa's breast size. Most in the series are regular or a part of the itty bitty titty committee like me.
I'll respond to your comments after I've caught some Z's Wazzy. I'd like to point out though that it shouldn't be that hard to believe what the guy was saying was a genuine argument given how opinions on these matters can be.
And SOLDIER was still civil despite being off on a couple things. I'd just like us to at least try to avoid being stupid dumbs.
And why would they think their friends were watching?? Most of them left to be with their loved ones and returned in the morning. They weren't just chilling in the Highwind all night watching Cloud and Tifa bang.
Really I don't think it's unreasonable to not think they didn't bang based on the scene. I didn't pick up on it when I was younger. But it is a much more innocent take.
People call for variety in body types and then when you have a game with actual variety you'll get some of the same people crying for some of them to be changed to the other body types because big breasts or nice curves are "overly sexual". What kind of bullshit is that?
And SOLDIER was still civil despite being off on a couple things. I'd just like us to at least try to avoid being stupid dumbs.
Disturbing? Really? Look it's cute that you think there it's so unapparent that they had sex (and I don't mean that as an insult), but we are talking about 2 adults who care deeply about each other and have had very intimate moments regardless of how you play the affection game. They also spend the night under a starry sky in what might be the last moment they'll have alone together(rather romantic really). So I would say that it is very reasonable to come to the conclusion that they banged. It almost feels like you think it's gross to think they had sex as if that taints the moment or something.
And why would they think their friends were watching?? Most of them left to be with their loved ones and returned in the morning. They weren't just chilling in the Highwind all night watching Cloud and Tifa bang.
Really I don't think it's unreasonable to not think they didn't bang based on the scene. I didn't pick up on it when I was younger. But it is a much more innocent take.
Good god this.
People call for variety in body types and then when you have a game with actual variety you'll get some of the same people crying for some of them to be changed to the other body types because big breasts or nice curves are "overly sexual". What kind of bullshit is that?
Cloud x Yuffie is the only way to save this thread from Tifa vs. Aerith! I wish it were 18 years ago and we could have a Yuffie thread. Maybe on my third and final playthrough of this game a million years ago, I finally realized that she's actually a very sweet and sensitive character despite being initially cast as a jerk. There's at least three main scenes where her optional presence is the most charming or moving of the bunch
even though Cloud Cid Tifa is the only correct party
To move the topic a little bit away from the LT discussion, I'm wondering how some of the redesigns will look for characters like Biggs, Jessie, Wedge, etc. I'm most excited to see these three.
Don't worry about it. I understand the need to get sleep over a minor debate anyway.
But one thing, I wouldn't classify SOLDIER as civil. When you come in and state that everything you post is 100% fact and that people are wrong to debate what you're saying and then post false information, you're disrupting any legitimate discussion that could take place.
Also let's not act like Alex's posts were really that big of a deal. I've seen people drop in and out of this thread to post nothing but Cloud and Tifa drivel so it's not fair for you to target the one Aeris fan calling some of them out.
The biggest issue isn't necessarily Tifa's breasts but everything representing her design. Tifa's character isn't mean to be a pandering one but her design absolutely is.
Don't worry about it. I understand the need to get sleep over a minor debate anyway.
But one thing, I wouldn't classify SOLDIER as civil. When you come in and state that everything you post is 100% fact and that people are wrong to debate what you're saying and then post false information, you're disrupting any legitimate discussion that could take place.
Also let's not act like Alex's posts were really that big of a deal. I've seen people drop in and out of this thread to post nothing but Cloud and Tifa drivel so it's not fair for you to target the one Aeris fan calling some of them out.
Big breasts is literally one of the most common body representations, though.
The biggest issue isn't necessarily Tifa's breasts but everything representing her design. Tifa's character isn't mean to be a pandering one but her design absolutely is.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I'm interested in this. Do you have any link to said (I'm assuming) interview?
BibiMaghoo
Member
Disturbing because it is entirely possible to be that close to someone, to share such things and moments, and not want to bang them. It is disturbing because your position seems to be that it isn't, and that makes me wonder about a person that would think that, because it suggests they have never had that. That position seems far more naive, or 'cute' than the assumption they must have, which to me is immature in that scenario.
The position is that her response of "you were watching?" in the highwind afterwards is an indication they had sex, and so obviously that would mean if so, they were actually watching, hence that statement.
Open worlds in games are already super-condensed compared to realistic proportions. An attempt to create FFVII's entire planet in a space the size of FFXV's world would look ridiculous. Making open worlds *feel* enormous even when they're actually surprisingly small is a real art, and something like that would land way too hard on one of the bad sides of the spectrum.
That's the thing though, it's not about the tech, it's about the sheer amount of time and effort it would take. Making an 'open world' version of FFVII's Gaia with the same sort of detail as FFXV would be an utterly insane task. It would either take a decade and hundreds of millions of dollars due to needing to be several times bigger with the same detail density, or it would need to be condensed to an utterly absurd degree. The only other thing they would do would be to completely retcon FFVII's geography by making the whole game take place in an FFXV-sized landmass with all the locations suddenly really close to each other with the rest of the world going unseen. This will not happen, partly because such a retcon would be badly received, and partly because the submarine sections wouldn't work with it.
It's totally possible to make FFVII's world, but in 'world map' form - less detail, designed to be seen from far above, and therefore much simpler and quicker to make.
This is the quote but let me see if I can find the original article. I'd rather not post sites from biased shippers even if the ones I've read have been legitimate with their facts.
It interesting because it set's up the ambiguity angle quite a lot leaving it up to people to decide if they make it as a couple or don't. From VII's events and AC, I think they're way too troubled to have a healthy relationship but that doesn't mean I'm right and that's only my personal interpretation.
Edit: I'll actually post the full quote. The site is a bit hard to navigate so I'll see if I can get a direct link to the interview.
“Episode Tifa” [Case of Tifa] - first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family (laughs). After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith, but I think there is a great burden from Aerith. Oh, I just remembered. I wanted to write Cloud as a person, seen through Tifa’s eyes. But he really isn’t the type to open up (laughs). ~Nojima interview about On the Way to a Smile at the Square-Enix website
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Yuffie kissed Cloud and all he did is sit there in silent. It's obvious if there's a jerk, it's not Yuffie.
Saying that the party members just creepily watch is assuming the worst of them. They could just as well searched for Cloud and Tifa on airship, noticed them down under and then went "whoa let's look away."
My takeaway from this is, whoever the woman is, Cloud would always be a pain in the ass. Yuffie was right to bail out as soon as she did.
I'll have to get back to you too Bibi. Right after these messages from REM.
I'll have to read back through SOLDIER's comments again but I didn't get the vibe that SOLDIER thought anyone was wrong to debate certain things. Though the remark about sources was weird.
Honestly my issue was mainly with the "You Tifa fans :rofl" remark. Though it was admittedly an overreaction. Those kinds of comments are particularly... irksome. That's moreso something I need to get over
Big breasts being more prevalent doesn't matter. You don't create variety by taking away something. You do it by creating new things that add to the mix. Taking old characters and changing their body type then calling that progress in diversifying the industry is a false progress that misses its own point.
I'm reeaaally hoping they keep the rag tag rebel look going personally.
I appreciate the understanding lolDon't worry about it. I understand the need to get sleep over a minor debate anyway.
But one thing, I wouldn't classify SOLDIER as civil. When you come in and state that everything you post is a 100% fact and that people are wrong to debate what you're saying and then post false information, you're disrupting any legitimate discussion that could take place.
Also let's not act like Alex's posts were a big deal. I've seen people drop in and out of this thread to post nothing but Cloud and Tifa drivel so it's not fair for you to target the one Aeris fan calling some of them out.
I'll have to read back through SOLDIER's comments again but I didn't get the vibe that SOLDIER thought anyone was wrong to debate certain things. Though the remark about sources was weird.
Honestly my issue was mainly with the "You Tifa fans :rofl" remark. Though it was admittedly an overreaction. Those kinds of comments are particularly... irksome. That's moreso something I need to get over
But reducing her breast size won't change any of that. If anything change her clothing design (I'd rather they didn't though I do love the AC design).
Big breasts being more prevalent doesn't matter. You don't create variety by taking away something. You do it by creating new things that add to the mix. Taking old characters and changing their body type then calling that progress in diversifying the industry is a false progress that misses its own point.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I relate the question to them having witnessed a private moment, not anything more, but don't adhere to the position that question is evidence of what took place. Regardless when she asks the question and runs off they all turn and do a 'head scratch, awkward moment' thing, including Cloud. Tifa's reaction certainly implies the answer was yes.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Tifa's character design and personality are like yin and yang. I always found that kind of funny.
nelsonroyale
Member
We have no idea how big FFXV actually is though...I think the world is going to be massive. As big as FFVII in the number of significant areas. In fact, I felt FFXII was bigger than FFVII in terms of the epicness of the world, so I can't honestly see how it can't be done.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
To move the topic a little bit away from the LT discussion, I'm wondering how some of the redesigns will look for characters like Biggs, Jessie, Wedge, etc. I'm most excited to see these three.
Don't worry about it. I understand the need to get sleep over a minor debate anyway.
But one thing, I wouldn't classify SOLDIER as civil. When you come in and state that everything you post is 100% fact and that people are wrong to debate what you're saying and then post false information, you're disrupting any legitimate discussion that could take place.
Also let's not act like Alex's posts were really that big of a deal. I've seen people drop in and out of this thread to post nothing but Cloud and Tifa drivel so it's not fair for you to target the one Aeris fan calling some of them out.
Big breasts is literally one of the most common body representations, though.
The biggest issue isn't necessarily Tifa's breasts but everything representing her design. Tifa's character isn't mean to be a pandering one but her design absolutely is.
I'd have to disagree with that even if we're talking about video games as a whole. Almost all the ones I'm thinking about are either ones that no longer exist like Lara or Dead or Alive and a couple of characters out of each fighting game franchise. DoA is the only one where the majority are toting DD's. I'm not saying they're rare though, but within the series of Final Fantasy it's just her and Lulu. Tifa could be a bit more tone though. They afraid to give women some definition.
Tomeru
Member
I think it's more in line that they are together, but have problems because reasons. I mean, how is it easier to come to a conclusion that they have "problems" and so they are not a couple, than it is to the conclusion that they are a couple, and they have problems. What couple don't have problems?
Speaking of coming to conclusions, isn't it acceptable that the issues they both had are seen in AC? Mainly that Cloud has confidence issues (which are not related to any other person in particular, and is related to everyone at the same time), and an issue that is resolved at the end?
At some point it was anyone's guess who Cloud chose, but after AC?
Scrooge McDuck
Member
So what's the problem, then? In that scenario, where Cloud and Tifa did have sex, and their friends caught a glimpse accidentally. What's so disturbing about that?
freikugeln
Member
I agree.I don't need a game where it takes you 20 minutes to traverse from Midgar to Kalm. It's impossible to make such a game without a crazy (even for AAA games)budget and not have the other locations suffer.
One of the best things about these old jrpgs like ff7 was the variety of unique and memorable dungeons,caves and villages.
The world map was a basic 3d plain + sea,forests with some simple climate variations.It was fun traversing it and it gave a sense of exploration(especially when you got the submarine and later the Highwind) but not to the point of getting lost in it like say a Bestheda game.
I'd prefer the developers focused more on recreating and expanding all the unique locations in full 3d while keeping the world map more simple than spending all their time and budget on having generic area 14 be 03 km2 and excruciatingly detailed.
BibiMaghoo
Member
About what? I didn't say anything in that interpretation was. I said it's disturbing that a person cannot believe it's possible to share an intimate moment with someone and not fuck them. I find that position disturbing.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I think you are oversimplifying things. No, people don't just assumed willy-nilly that they had sex just because they shared an intimate moment. They assumed that because of the combination of "words aren't the only way to tell people how you feel" that faded to black and Tifa's exaggerated embarrassment afterwards.
Which is, by the way, a common visual method. To craft a scene in such a way that it strongly imply what's about to happen, unseen. Just like if you see a scene of a cowboy holding his brother at gunpoint, cocking its trigger, then cut to black. And afterwards he's shown drowning his sorrow with liquor, you'd assume that he just shot the brother dead.
Doesn't matter if it turned out it's a misdirection, that he just shot the ground and told the brother to scram, or a little flag with "BANG!" written on it came out of the gun and the cowboy laughed; "just kidding!" It's obvious what the creator was leading the viewer to think about with that scene.
And you don't get to say; "it's disturbing that a person could think somebody could not hold another human being at gunpoint without shooting them." Not even if you had a 50-pages thesis about how the cowboy loves that brother so much the he would never murder him. It's an utterly unfair statement.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Did I oversimplify this? Because this was what it was in response to. You are picking my responses as posts in isolation when they are not.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I was actually reacting to this:
Which is a response to -Ryn's "it's reasonable to assume they had sex that night." You are applying your "disturbing" judgement not to just one person.
Tifa in the original Final fantasy VII's design is pandering. She's wearing a tight white crop tank top emphasizing her breasts, a leather mini skirt all of which she fights in as a martial artist. The scene of her collapsing is embarassingly bad.
We can't look at Tifa's design in a Final Fantasy vacuum. It's about how female designs are over sexualized and have been for a longtime. Just because it's improving now doesn't mean her design wasn't pandering back then, especially with how it's contrasts with her actual personality.
I'll respond properly to this in a minute. Basically there's many things implying they aren't in a relationship but could go into one.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Yes, because they quoted that response of mine with this:
Which is exactly the same assumption I addressed that quote to, and the position I find disturbing for the reason I have already given. Do we understand each other now? This is getting mighty confusing having to explain my posts when they are on the same page
Yes, and if FFXV is going to be that gigantic when it's only taking place over part of one continent, imagine if you tried to make a whole planet. It's not merely about the individual locations, it's about selling the global setting, which is impossible to do with a to-scale open world but perfectly possible with a world-map style.
Exactly. FFVII is set across the whole planet, so that limits the ways the world can be represented. Using a world map, updated and improved as much as possible, would be the best way, especially given the nostalgia element.
I'd like to learn a little more about Cloud's parents if possible.
Will his mother get more than a few passing scenes and an off screen death? I don't even recall if she was even mentioned by Cloud for the rest of the story.
Will we get to know anything about his father? Is he even alive?
Will his mother get more than a few passing scenes and an off screen death? I don't even recall if she was even mentioned by Cloud for the rest of the story.
Will we get to know anything about his father? Is he even alive?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's a very common JRPG tradition to not know anything about one of the protagonist's parents. Cloud's father, Crono's father, Ash Ketchum's father, etc.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Most Anime dont have parents either, i guess they just kind of get in the way of the kids stories/relationships.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
It will, we just dont know if it will be like FF7s or like Just Cause 3/GTAV
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