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Spoilers Final Fantasy 7 Remake Spoilers Thread!

gamerforever

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Mar 21, 2011
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The game ended with a chance of it being the only instalment imo thats why we had the sephiroth fight. A great game, but would have been greater had i not played the original as this was full of too many fillers and i’m sure we aren’t even 10% into the game are we? It’s going to be a long ride to the end (if we get there).
 

T_LVPL

Formerly 'Timbo_Liverpool'
Jun 18, 2018
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Just absolutely battered Pride & Joy at the first attempt. It felt amazing at the moment i knew i was gonna beat him, then seeing the big idiot fall backwards and die & the trophy pop.

Managed to learn the last enemy skill off Malboro too, just before i killed him he puked on Cloud and the trophy popped. So i haven’t got to bother doing that again, which is by far the hardest series on the simulator.

The real pain was Shiva, and Bahamut!!! I absolutely hate Bahamut, he’s a complete bastard!!! I hate him even more than HellHouse. Nearly died so many times man. No idea how i stayed alive. I just tried to stay healthy as much as possible and try to have Manaward on at the times i needed it. When he cast Megaflare i didn’t expect to survive, i thought “oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I had a good run. You can’t win em all. I’ll learn from this experience and come back stronger” but somehow everyone survived, i hit Healing Wind quickly and then we absolutely smacked him with Thundaga to win. I was almost happier when Ifrit was there with him, because Bahamut left me alone more than usual.

Got 81% of the trophies now. Looking good for the Platinum. Just a few more to sweep up, finish the last 2 chapters on Hard. The only trophy i’ll struggle on is the bike mini game and the 300% stagger. I haven’t even come close to 300% doing the punch thing with Tifa so i’ll have to actually get help on that and follow some guaranteed way of doing it. Think i’ll leave that trophy til last.

This game is so good man. The gameplay reminds me of FF13, which i love and also got the platinum.
 
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T_LVPL

Formerly 'Timbo_Liverpool'
Jun 18, 2018
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Also, no way are they getting up to Aeris’ death in the next game. FF7 disc 1 was easily the longest most epic disc of any FF on the PSX. You’ve still got got Kalm, Yuffie, Junon, The Shinra boat, Costa Del Sol, Chocobos, The journey between Chocobo and Nibelheim through the mountains and swamp, Cosmo Canyon, Golden Saucer, Barret and Dyne backstory, Nibelheim, Vincent, Rocket Town, Cid, Wutai, Temple of the Ancients, Aeris mother backstory and even more i missed out all before Aeris dies. Think there’ll be at least 4, possibly 5 or even 6 games here. I expect the next games to be bigger and more detail too, because they won’t be rushed like this one.
 
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D.Final

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Oct 18, 2018
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The worst things about this Remake are the totally random introduction of the Wispers of Fate, most of the side missions, and the plot changes they wanted to make to the original game.
[at least the gameplay takes some inspiration from Final Fantasy XV (one of my favorite Final Fantasy games since FFIX) , and it's good. But overall I consider the experience I had with Final Fantasy XV better than the one I had with this Remake.]

And all this because Nomura always wants to be a Nomura. Complicating situations that don't need to be complicated (Kingdom Hearts saga), and sometimes ruining iconic moments. In this case introducing a variable that has already ruined a franchise, time travel in Kingdom Hearts.
(do you remember what happened in KH 3 Remind? Here's what can will happen at this point at the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake)

The characters most damaged by this move (in addition to all the others) are, Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth and in particular Zack.
Nomura with Final Fantasy VII Remake destroyed the best moment of one of the franchise's most iconic characters, Zack's heroic death.


What does this imply?
That Nomura created a ridiculous way to resurrect a character (even if just in a Timeline). And even if you justify it with the question of timelines, it will not change what Nomura intentions will be.

Here's what I expect for the future:

- the game will continue with Part 2, but everyone will be too worried about thinking about how to avoid the mistakes they made focused on the memories of the future, rather than focusing on what was the unfolding of the plot of the original.

- Aerith will die differently, and more PEGI free than the original.
It turns out that in the "Zack Timeline" it survives. And that it is Zack who saves her.

(which is extremely obvious for me)
[because Nomura will probably invent that Aerith just dies in at least one of the 2 timelines to launch Holy on the planet]

- Nomura wanted to emphasize even the Avalance mascot the moment Zack survives.
I hypothesize that it is because in this alternative Timeline Zack takes that simple dog as inspiration to found a new organization of terrorist opposition to Shinra, the Avalance.
(therefore, making Zack one of the founders of the group)

- Tifa's journey into Cloud's mind will be definitively canceled, with the excuse of the Wispers factor and how such events have practically already destroyed the concept of existential problem that Cloud carried with him in the original.
At the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake, practically, Cloud is already Cloud. Since Nomura wanted to emphasize the fact that his "personal conflict" was dispelled by the clash with Sephiroth from the future that wants to prevent the past Sephiroth from launching Meteor and destroying the world.
(when in reality the world would not be totally destroyed anyway, since Holy would be launched in any case, but anyway ....)
[Nomura wanted to point out that Sephiroth does not want to die in the end, which destroys Sephiroth's character (and characterization) f rom the original game , given that by JENOVA's ambitions, Sephiroth would gladly die for his mother]

- Final Fantasy VII Remake final battle (Part 4/7?).
Defeat Sephiroth on 2 timelines.
One that of Remake, and the other that of Zack timeline.

Where Zack, Aerith, Cloud, defeat Sephiroth who wants to die.
And the other is today's Remake timeline, where the battle against Sephiroth will take place similarly to the original, probably. With the difference that during the battle there will always be a change and exchange of shots and scenarios between this dimension and the other to better point out how Sephiroth is defeated simultaneously in two different temporal dimensions.
(cool, but at the same time superfluous and basically useless)

So, ultimately, this decision dictated by Nomura's will to introduce the variable of "time, fate and mystery" only gave an opposite effect for me. Unnecessarily complicating a story which, being already complex, did not deserve to be complicated with new variables that ruin its natural narrative flow.

Because in one move it has basically destroyed some of the game's most iconic characters.
 
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gamerforever

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It is possible that aeris doesn’t die in the remake, which i’m cool with in all honesty. I kind of want it to be different to the original so there are some surprises like this one.
 
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Nickolaidas

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The worst things about this Remake are the totally random introduction of the Wispers of Fate, most of the side missions, and the plot changes they wanted to make to the original game.
[at least the gameplay takes some inspiration from Final Fantasy XV (one of my favorite Final Fantasy games since FFIX) , and it's good. But overall I consider the experience I had with Final Fantasy XV better than the one I had with this Remake.]

And all this because Nomura always wants to be a Nomura. Complicating situations that don't need to be complicated (Kingdom Hearts saga), and sometimes ruining iconic moments. In this case introducing a variable that has already ruined a franchise, time travel in Kingdom Hearts.
(do you remember what happened in KH 3 Remind? Here's what can will happen at this point at the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake)

The characters most damaged by this move (in addition to all the others) are, Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth and in particular Zack.
Nomura with Final Fantasy VII Remake destroyed the best moment of one of the franchise's most iconic characters, Zack's heroic death.


What does this imply?
That Nomura created a ridiculous way to resurrect a character (even if just in a Timeline). And even if you justify it with the question of timelines, it will not change what Nomura intentions will be.

Here's what I expect for the future:

- the game will continue with Part 2, but everyone will be too worried about thinking about how to avoid the mistakes they made focused on the memories of the future, rather than focusing on what was the unfolding of the plot of the original.

- Aerith will die differently, and more PEGI free than the original.
It turns out that in the "Zack Timeline" it survives. And that it is Zack who saves her.

(which is extremely obvious for me)
[because Nomura will probably invent that Aerith just dies in at least one of the 2 timelines to launch Holy on the planet]

- Nomura wanted to emphasize even the Avalance mascot the moment Zack survives.
I hypothesize that it is because in this alternative Timeline Zack takes that simple dog as inspiration to found a new organization of terrorist opposition to Shinra, the Avalance.
(therefore, making Zack one of the founders of the group)

- Tifa's journey into Cloud's mind will be definitively canceled, with the excuse of the Wispers factor and how such events have practically already destroyed the concept of existential problem that Cloud carried with him in the original.
At the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake, practically, Cloud is already Cloud. Since Nomura wanted to emphasize the fact that his "personal conflict" was dispelled by the clash with Sephiroth from the future that wants to prevent the past Sephiroth from launching Meteor and destroying the world.
(when in reality the world would not be totally destroyed anyway, since Holy would be launched in any case, but anyway ....)
[Nomura wanted to point out that Sephiroth does not want to die in the end, which destroys Sephiroth's character (and characterization) f rom the original game , given that by JENOVA's ambitions, Sephiroth would gladly die for his mother]

- Final Fantasy VII Remake final battle (Part 4/7?).
Defeat Sephiroth on 2 timelines.
One that of Remake, and the other that of Zack timeline.

Where Zack, Aerith, Cloud, defeat Sephiroth who wants to die.
And the other is today's Remake timeline, where the battle against Sephiroth will take place similarly to the original, probably. With the difference that during the battle there will always be a change and exchange of shots and scenarios between this dimension and the other to better point out how Sephiroth is defeated simultaneously in two different temporal dimensions.
(cool, but at the same time superfluous and basically useless)

So, ultimately, this decision dictated by Nomura's will to introduce the variable of "time, fate and mystery" only gave an opposite effect for me. Unnecessarily complicating a story which, being already complex, did not deserve to be complicated with new variables that ruin its natural narrative flow.

Because in one move it has basically destroyed some of the game's most iconic characters.
It's one thing to accuse the writing for changing stuff that you like, but accusing it of changing things it has yet to be seen if it will change them? That's jumping the gun a bit, IMO.
 
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.winter

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Nov 6, 2016
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It is possible that aeris doesn’t die in the remake, which i’m cool with in all honesty. I kind of want it to be different to the original so there are some surprises like this one.
That would be actually kind of troubling for Tifa. Cloud still has feelings for Aeris after all.
 

Geki-D

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Dec 6, 2017
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It is possible that aeris doesn’t die in the remake, which i’m cool with in all honesty. I kind of want it to be different to the original so there are some surprises like this one.
I don't know much about the original FF7, but I do know she dies. It's way too impactful a moment for it not to happen again. It would be like taking world 1-1 out of Super Mario Bros or not pulling out the Master Sword in Ocarina of Time.
 

D.Final

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Oct 18, 2018
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It's one thing to accuse the writing for changing stuff that you like, but accusing it of changing things it has yet to be seen if it will change them? That's jumping the gun a bit, IMO.
True.
But with Nomura I expect everything. From marginal changes to noticeable and thick changes.
Considering also that Nomura would never have participated in the Final Fantasy VII Remake project if he hadn't been able to make any changes to the Final Fantasy VII game, including the storyline.
And that therefore Nomura had no intention of making a 1: 1 Remake of the original game.
(this was an info from an old interview done in 2014 or 2017, if I remember correctly)

For example, what happened with the ending of Final Fantasy VII Remake is a very big change of the original plot. And this will inevitably lead to significant changes in the events and the interactions of the characters with the events and the plot of the future games.

Of course, I can't say anything with certainty about the future games since I only just made some simple assumptions.
But if the changes are as big as the timeline where Zack survives, I wouldn't be surprised if that same timeline leads to Aerith's survival itself.
(since practically all Final Fantasy VII Remake characters now know that Aerith will die and must die)

This is why I judge what I know and make assumptions about the future.
But if Nomura's intention includes a willingness to upset fundamental events in the story of Final Fantasy VII, then I'm not super confident.
[considering that the events of Final Fantasy VII exist for a reason, and there is a clear reason why characters like Zack had to die to give life to the legend and his legacy, which in this case led to the beginning of Final Fantasy VII]
(although it will always be interesting and cool to see, it is likely that in the end it may be became a very different game, albeit similar, to the original story)
 

Rentahamster

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Jun 26, 2007
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The worst things about this Remake are the totally random introduction of the Wispers of Fate, most of the side missions, and the plot changes they wanted to make to the original game.
[at least the gameplay takes some inspiration from Final Fantasy XV (one of my favorite Final Fantasy games since FFIX) , and it's good. But overall I consider the experience I had with Final Fantasy XV better than the one I had with this Remake.]

And all this because Nomura always wants to be a Nomura. Complicating situations that don't need to be complicated (Kingdom Hearts saga), and sometimes ruining iconic moments. In this case introducing a variable that has already ruined a franchise, time travel in Kingdom Hearts.
(do you remember what happened in KH 3 Remind? Here's what can will happen at this point at the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake)

The characters most damaged by this move (in addition to all the others) are, Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth and in particular Zack.
Nomura with Final Fantasy VII Remake destroyed the best moment of one of the franchise's most iconic characters, Zack's heroic death.


What does this imply?
That Nomura created a ridiculous way to resurrect a character (even if just in a Timeline). And even if you justify it with the question of timelines, it will not change what Nomura intentions will be.

Here's what I expect for the future:

- the game will continue with Part 2, but everyone will be too worried about thinking about how to avoid the mistakes they made focused on the memories of the future, rather than focusing on what was the unfolding of the plot of the original.

- Aerith will die differently, and more PEGI free than the original.
It turns out that in the "Zack Timeline" it survives. And that it is Zack who saves her.

(which is extremely obvious for me)
[because Nomura will probably invent that Aerith just dies in at least one of the 2 timelines to launch Holy on the planet]

- Nomura wanted to emphasize even the Avalance mascot the moment Zack survives.
I hypothesize that it is because in this alternative Timeline Zack takes that simple dog as inspiration to found a new organization of terrorist opposition to Shinra, the Avalance.
(therefore, making Zack one of the founders of the group)

- Tifa's journey into Cloud's mind will be definitively canceled, with the excuse of the Wispers factor and how such events have practically already destroyed the concept of existential problem that Cloud carried with him in the original.
At the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake, practically, Cloud is already Cloud. Since Nomura wanted to emphasize the fact that his "personal conflict" was dispelled by the clash with Sephiroth from the future that wants to prevent the past Sephiroth from launching Meteor and destroying the world.
(when in reality the world would not be totally destroyed anyway, since Holy would be launched in any case, but anyway ....)
[Nomura wanted to point out that Sephiroth does not want to die in the end, which destroys Sephiroth's character (and characterization) f rom the original game , given that by JENOVA's ambitions, Sephiroth would gladly die for his mother]

- Final Fantasy VII Remake final battle (Part 4/7?).
Defeat Sephiroth on 2 timelines.
One that of Remake, and the other that of Zack timeline.

Where Zack, Aerith, Cloud, defeat Sephiroth who wants to die.
And the other is today's Remake timeline, where the battle against Sephiroth will take place similarly to the original, probably. With the difference that during the battle there will always be a change and exchange of shots and scenarios between this dimension and the other to better point out how Sephiroth is defeated simultaneously in two different temporal dimensions.
(cool, but at the same time superfluous and basically useless)

So, ultimately, this decision dictated by Nomura's will to introduce the variable of "time, fate and mystery" only gave an opposite effect for me. Unnecessarily complicating a story which, being already complex, did not deserve to be complicated with new variables that ruin its natural narrative flow.

Because in one move it has basically destroyed some of the game's most iconic characters.
IMO, you're assuming a lot more than is warranted, given the information presented to us in the game. It's like you set out to imagine something that you'd hate from the start. You shouldn't get worked up over mere speculation.
 
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D.Final

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IMO, you're assuming a lot more than is warranted, given the information presented to us in the game. It's like you set out to imagine something that you'd hate from the start. You shouldn't get worked up over mere speculation.
No.
It's just a matter of making assumptions in the end.

Of course it may seem pessimistic as a vision, but since we are still talking about Nomura I would not be surprised if it ended up like this.

And I still liked Final Fantasy VII Remake, except for the additions that drastically modify the events of the original story.
For me the additions that I liked are the insights on the secondary characters and on particular events.
For example, I liked the extra insights on Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and his family.
What I didn't like is the introduction into the story of these Wispers of Fate. That did nothing but complicate the events, even changing the theme of the game with fate and destiny.

Then, of course, I personally hope for the best, and that the story of the original Final Fantasy VII can try to be as faithful as possible even in the whole Remake project. But after finishing the game, and thinking about what I played for a long time, I think their ambition is to overcome the original Final Fantasy VII story, also adding random elements such as the Wispers of Fate. And changing key elements of the original Final Fantasy VII game.

The key elements of the Final Fantasy VII story (and anyway consolidated in the Compilation) are elements such as Aerith's death, Cloud's link with Zack (who died giving his legacy to Cloud), the death of Biggs, Wedge and Jessie , the awakening of the Weapons, Cloud and the events of Black Materia, Sephiroth who wants to launch Meteor, etc ...

And knowing that 2/3 key elements like these are officially changed, they can also change other events if they want. But this inevitably implies that the game will be profoundly different from the original game over time, events, and games.
(to the point that they may even change the order of events, and visits to the same locations, of the game itself)
[for example they could also decide to go to Rocket Town or to Wutai before going to the Gold Saucer]

Then the games will probably always be cool, but at the same time they could easily differentiate a lot from the original story, considering the premises.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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What I didn't like is the introduction into the story of these Wispers of Fate. That did nothing but complicate the events, even changing the theme of the game with fate and destiny.
see when i was playing i just thought "Oh these are like those random cloaked Reunion guys you would see all over the og game".

as for the theme of the game being fate and destiny, i mean, the original game is about stopping the planet from dying, because a meteor is going to hit it, in the future. that is quite literally dealing w fate and destiny. the meteor is part of the bloody game logo even! the entire game has always been about looming destiny.

the original game was very long and confusing and had many intertwining themes. destiny was one of them. confusing flashbacks was another. i've played through the og FF7 many many times, it is not a typical straightforward narrative and NEVER HAS BEEN. Cloud blacks out many times. halfway through the game, it's revealed he is an reliable narrator. i don't know what to tell you.

i dunno, just feel like all the bitching about them daring to change things is kind of silly. people really thought this was going to be a 1:1 game translation? you wanted the same people to make the exact same game from 20 years ago with no changes at all? seems like a lot of expectations to lay on these artists, you gonna tell them not to change any dialog, no plot points can change, etc. sounds like a boring fucking way to revisit a game. lol. that was never going to happen.
 
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D.Final

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see when i was playing i just thought "Oh these are like those random cloaked Reunion guys you would see all over the og game".

as for the theme of the game being fate and destiny, i mean, the original game is about stopping the planet from dying, because a meteor is going to hit it, in the future. that is quite literally dealing w fate and destiny. the meteor is part of the bloody game logo even! the entire game has always been about looming destiny.

the original game was very long and confusing and had many intertwining themes. destiny was one of them. confusing flashbacks was another. i've played through the og FF7 many many times, it is not a typical straightforward narrative and NEVER HAS BEEN. Cloud blacks out many times. halfway through the game, it's revealed he is an reliable narrator. i don't know what to tell you.

i dunno, just feel like all the bitching about them daring to change things is kind of silly. people really thought this was going to be a 1:1 game translation? you wanted the same people to make the exact same game from 20 years ago with no changes at all? seems like a lot of expectations to lay on these artists, you gonna tell them not to change any dialog, no plot points can change, etc. sounds like a boring fucking way to revisit a game. lol. that was never going to happen.
The main theme of the original game is to save the planet and stop Sephiroth.
Meteor is just one of many consequences that will be part of the game's story.
But this Remake develops with the concept that Aerith, because of these new random elements that are the Wispers of Fate, now literally knows the whole original story of Final Fantasy VII throughout the game of Final Fantasy VII Remake.
And during the story of the game, and especially in the ending, the other characters also learn multiple points in the story of the original game, including Aerith's death.
And even the main antagonist itself, Sephiroth, learns these events, almost changing even his own villain characterization, and trying to prevent such events.
(which destroys a good chunk of the impact Sephiroth has always had in the original, death and the attempt to destroy the world)

For me, what I would have preferred, were only enormous insights on the characters, places, events and settings of the original Final Fantasy VII. Without improvised and sometimes not excellent upheavals.
Because these can destroy the characterization of those historical characters, as happened precisely with Zack.
Then, there are also those who can appreciate these enormous upheavals, even exaggerated obviously, but for me personally the original Final Fantasy VII storyline was already more than good, honestly.

And Final Fantasy VII Remake could work well even by enlarging and expanding the story of the game, thanks precisely to many insights and additions to the characterizations of main and secondary characters, greater characterization of places and events, and practically complete fidelity to the history of the original game.
And instead Nomura wanted at all costs to do a new work that could potentially lead to totally ruining not only a part but the whole narrative flow of the original game of Final Fantasy VII.

And my preference would have been a work as faithful as possible to the original, rather than something improvised by Nomura.

I am always curious about the future, but my initial expectations (despite the work done) have lowered as regards the hope of seeing faithfulness to the original in this "Remake".
 
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Paracelsus

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I think the real meaning of the Remake is that fans are actually stuck in a time loop because we get the same discussion every 3-4 pages ffs.

If FFVII is about destiny, literally every product of entertainment is about destiny, even Pokemon and Peppa Pig.
FFVII is about protecting life, and understanding the value of life through death.
Here, the person who will undo FFVII, in his own words before he snapped.

When I reflect on Final Fantasy VII, the fact that fans were so offended by her sudden death probably means that we were successful with her character. If fans had simply accepted her death, that would have meant she wasn't an effective character".
Nothing like fighting ghosts and traveling time to show people the impact of death.
 

Shouta

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BUT.... if that is the case, why did Reno come to the church with his goons? He's not there to kidnap her, sooo … is he there just to say hello and check in on her? Okay. That's that. Then why in the living fuck did Aerith named Cloud her bodyguard and ask him to beat Reno? She KNOWS that Reno won't hurt her, she KNOWS that Reno won't kidnap her, so WHY urge Cloud - and put him at risk - by telling him to go mano-a-mano with the Turk?
Aerith was safe prior to FF7 because Shinra was at war with Wutai and their resources were taken up by that. Their Neo Midgar project was delayed as a result and Aerith wasn't needed so they left her alone. Tseng tried to persuade her to join but she said no so they just kept tabs on her. When FF7 occurs, that project is kicking off again so Reno was sent to bring Aerith in and she realizes this which is why she asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. That's also why she's able to bargain with Tseng to bring Marlene to her home by going to Shinra willingly. Nomura's change for Remake where we fight Reno is just a minor extension of what originally occurred.

Most of the exact details for Aerith's situation actually comes from Crisis Core and can be pretty easy to forget though since it was on the PSP.

2. Cloud and nobody else sees the whispers except Aerith. Once Aerith touches Cloud, Cloud can see them too, while the others can't. So why exactly does Cloud wake with everyone seeing an entire swarm of them all over 7th Heaven? Did Aerith touch every single Sector 7 citizen in the slums when they were asleep? Did the Whispers say, "You know what? Fuck this. We're un-stealthing ourselves for the rest of the game".

And if the Whispers are supposed to be those who try to enforce Fate and not let the timeline deviate from the original, why ARE they there in the first place? What was happening in 7th Heaven that needed intervention from the whispers? Why exactly did they hurt Jessie in order for Tifa to take her place? Because Jessie getting benched and Tifa taking her place was EXACTLY what happened in the original timeline - so why did the Whispers intervened and hurt Jessie to bench her, since Jessie getting benched WAS what originally happened?
The Whispers injured Jessie so that Cloud would go on the bombing mission to Reactor 5. The scene the day before even mentioned that they be leaving Cloud out of the action and it would be Avalanche only. That's not what happens in the original FF7 and Cloud going on the mission is necessary for him to come into contact with Aerith a second time which is what the Whispers were trying to make sure occurs.
 

T_LVPL

Formerly 'Timbo_Liverpool'
Jun 18, 2018
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After finishing it a 2nd time, i now don’t think the ending is that silly after all. Just a way to get Zack in the follow up games, and make it 50/50 if Aeris lives or not. Keeps the story less predictable. The games so good i don’t really mind some changes to the story now. The characters and locations, music weapons and spells, KOTR materia etc is all gonna be there. That’s good enough for me i’m too old to actually care about trivialities in a good game.
 

Nickolaidas

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Aerith was safe prior to FF7 because Shinra was at war with Wutai and their resources were taken up by that. Their Neo Midgar project was delayed as a result and Aerith wasn't needed so they left her alone. Tseng tried to persuade her to join but she said no so they just kept tabs on her. When FF7 occurs, that project is kicking off again so Reno was sent to bring Aerith in and she realizes this which is why she asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. That's also why she's able to bargain with Tseng to bring Marlene to her home by going to Shinra willingly. Nomura's change for Remake where we fight Reno is just a minor extension of what originally occurred.

Most of the exact details for Aerith's situation actually comes from Crisis Core and can be pretty easy to forget though since it was on the PSP.



The Whispers injured Jessie so that Cloud would go on the bombing mission to Reactor 5. The scene the day before even mentioned that they be leaving Cloud out of the action and it would be Avalanche only. That's not what happens in the original FF7 and Cloud going on the mission is necessary for him to come into contact with Aerith a second time which is what the Whispers were trying to make sure occurs.
Hmm … I think I get what you're saying. So, the Remake being an alternate timeline has things happen differently without a reason other than being a different timeline, and the whispers try to convert the remake timeline into the original timeline. They're not fixing the timeline as much as twisting it into becoming 100% faithful to the 1997's timeline, while the Remake's timeline was supposedly meant to be its own thing.

Unless the Remake's timeline became screwed up because of Sephiroth messing with it. He's trying to change this timeline in order for it not to end like the original's, where he lost.

The more I think about it, the more I get MK9 vibes.

I don't really care if that means the latter games will deviate even more from the source material, as long as they're accompanied with the same level of amazing directing, character emphasis and development this one had.

Kudos, man. You opened my eyes.

Oh, and just for the record, I never played Crisis Core - never got myself a PSP. I hate handhelds.
 

Nickolaidas

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I'm watching Easy Allies and Maximilian talk about the game and the spoilers and holy shit, everything makes sense now. I never realized that the reason the whispers take Hojo away was because he was about to spoil the plot to Cloud. Nor that Sephiroth appears in the beginning and lures Cloud into the alley so that he won't meet Aerith, and the whispers are there, circling through Aerith to make her STAY there and meet Cloud.

And that the Sephiroth we saw is actually Advent Children Sephiroth, coming from the future!

Holy shit, I was being so harsh in this game's "plot holes" while it's actually being really clever!
 
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The whispers are maybe a meta commentary about the fans reaction since they intervene at every possible deviation from the OG7.

I'm not in the camp of those who want a 1:1 remake, I've finished 7 multiple times in these past 23 years, so I'm more than happy with this new unknown direction the story is going to.

And Nomura wasn't the writer or scenario director, nor is he the sole director of the game (Tetsuya Nomura - Naoki Hamaguchi - Motomu Toriyama), this project is bigger than him and SE knows that.

Yeah Nomura's track record with KH story is shit but the man is immensely talented and when filtered he brings resaults.

OG7 is always there intact to play "uncorrupted" if you want.

I for one am all aboard the Remake train.
 

Rentahamster

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Imagine they hadnt changed a thing and this whole thread would have stopped after 5 posts xD
Then you'd get people posting in this thread about how the devs didn't take any risks and didn't change anything so the experience was boring and unoriginal.

There's always going to be some segment of unsatisfied customers. Can't please everyone.
 
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Shouta

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Hmm … I think I get what you're saying. So, the Remake being an alternate timeline has things happen differently without a reason other than being a different timeline, and the whispers try to convert the remake timeline into the original timeline. They're not fixing the timeline as much as twisting it into becoming 100% faithful to the 1997's timeline, while the Remake's timeline was supposedly meant to be its own thing.

Unless the Remake's timeline became screwed up because of Sephiroth messing with it. He's trying to change this timeline in order for it not to end like the original's, where he lost.

The more I think about it, the more I get MK9 vibes.

I don't really care if that means the latter games will deviate even more from the source material, as long as they're accompanied with the same level of amazing directing, character emphasis and development this one had.

Kudos, man. You opened my eyes.

Oh, and just for the record, I never played Crisis Core - never got myself a PSP. I hate handhelds.
Correct. The Remake timeline was unfolding differently from the original game's storyline and that was leading to key events not occurring that were necessary for OG FF7 to happen. The Whispers only directly intervened to correct those aspects when it was necessary. If you look at where they show up and what they do it lines up almost entirely perfectly. This is why they were doing things to obstruct or help the crew throughout the game and it wasn't clear if they were allies or not.

I'm watching Easy Allies and Maximilian talk about the game and the spoilers and holy shit, everything makes sense now. I never realized that the reason the whispers take Hojo away was because he was about to spoil the plot to Cloud. Nor that Sephiroth appears in the beginning and lures Cloud into the alley so that he won't meet Aerith, and the whispers are there, circling through Aerith to make her STAY there and meet Cloud.

And that the Sephiroth we saw is actually Advent Children Sephiroth, coming from the future!

Holy shit, I was being so harsh in this game's "plot holes" while it's actually being really clever!
Also check out the Dropped Frames discussion that Rentahamster links in this post. It goes a bit more indepth than the Easy Allies one and discusses some of the supplementary material from Advent Children and some of the ideas that kind of gets used here in Remake.

Good story discussion in this podcast:


It mirrors the conversations I've been having with my friends as well. We're all very impressed at what the game accomplished, loved what was the same, loved what was fleshed out, loved what was different, and are optimistic about the future.
 
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D.Final

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I don't know much about the original FF7, but I do know she dies. It's way too impactful a moment for it not to happen again. It would be like taking world 1-1 out of Super Mario Bros or not pulling out the Master Sword in Ocarina of Time.
Exactly this.

In the plot there are changes that should never be made, otherwise this destroy the sense of the narrative development of the game and the characterizations of the characters.
And that's what happened with Zack and Sephiroth in this Final Fantasy VII Remake.

This Remake destroyed Zack as a character and destroyed the origins of the beginning of the story of the Final Fantasy VII original game as it was conceived.

This Remake didn't need to have such exaggerated plot changes.
(but apparently Nomura wanted at all costs to complicate and ruin a plot that already worked.....)
And this could probably lead to further bad changes such as making Aerith survive (since even the characters in the game know that she dies) or even making Sephiroth good.
These changes make this game something totally different from a Remake, but more like an alternative sequel/spinoff.
And it is a pity.
 
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TheAssist

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Exactly this.

These changes make this game something totally different from a Remake, but more like an alternative sequel/spinoff.
And it is a pity.
I think many people have come to the conclusion that it is a sequel since it plays in a different timeline. I dont think you can call it false advertising since all of the events of the original still happen and it just changes at the very end. So if one really hates that part, its easy to just not think about chapter 18.

I kind of get your view, though I completely disagree with every point you make. Also you shouldnt blame Nomura for everything, he was only responsible for the concept and wasnt alone. This is a team effort by most of the senior staff at SE.
But while I completely disagree with everything you are saying, at least you take the time to write full sentences and present your points in a reasonable manner as far as gaming forums go. I really do appreciate that!

I watched the Easy Allies Spoilercast, guess I now need to watch the dropped frames one as well :D. Personally I find this so fun. Just watching people come up with ideas and arguing about its meaning. They did a good job with that :D
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Then you'd get people posting in this thread about how the devs didn't take any risks and didn't change anything so the experience was boring and unoriginal.

There's always going to be some segment of unsatisfied customers. Can't please everyone.
it happens with every Final Fantasy game. it would be weird if people weren't nerding out on this one, it's the end all be all.

personally i think it is an incredible achievement. the story presentation is really wonderful and fully in the spirit of the original, even if it isn't a 1:1 copy.

the narrative of the original, to me anyways, was always winding and twisted. kind of esoteric and mysterious, with flashbacks, blackouts, alternate memories, etc. Cloud revealing himself to be an unreliable narrator at one point. the whole Zack twist in the original was genius, and still kind of blows my mind. i love how they put it in at the end here, for new players they will be like "Woah who is that?" and it's sort of near that spot in the original game that we first see Zack, so i think it's really fitting. it's a nice cliffhanger, whether or not he plays a huge role in the future entries.
 
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Nickolaidas

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Anyone read this yet?


So, what I take from this is that Nomura won't distort the entire original story, but make some key changes here and there, with the intention of providing a better closure to the story.

99% sure that the key changes are going to be about Cloud, Zack, Aerith and Sephiroth. Those four were the characters most affected by the FFVII compilation, and those are going to be the ones having key moments being different from the main game.

Maximillian made some amazing theories, like Cloud dying in order to save Zack and make him the 'true' hero of FFVII, Aerith dying in a different, more gotcha way than in the original, Sephiroth being utterly annihilated from time and space …

But more or less, the story pacing I suspect will be the same.
 

T_LVPL

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One thing about Hard Mode is i found that Ghost in the control room extremely difficult. It took me about 5 attempts and i only just squeezed past him. That was the biggest surprise because he was easy on Normal. Also I don’t think i’d ever have beaten Rufus Shinra and his dickhead dog without the Gotterdammerung. And battles I dreading like The Arsenal and Eligor were much easier than on Normal due to how powerful you are by the time you face them.
 

Kev Kev

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So, what I take from this is that Nomura won't distort the entire original story, but make some key changes here and there, with the intention of providing a better closure to the story.
this is the best we can hope for at this point. i believe people are freaking otu a bit much (per usual lol), not that their concerns aren't valid, but just that we have yet to see what's going to come of all this. and i imagine nomura and co are at least listening and will (hopefully) try to reign things over the next installments...

on the other hand.... they could be absolutely right and this thing gets gutted for no reason... i jsut find it hard that square could be that retarded... but it is square were talking about here so,..

wait, could we always take barrett or yuffie on a date? i thoutght it was only tifa or aerith (or aeris, lol)
 

Shouta

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This is good and a pretty concise version of what was talked about in the Dropped Frames video. That initial scene with Cloud and Aerith's meeting has a bit more context when I think about it the way they mentioned and her talks at the start of Chapter 17 makes way more sense. :pie_thinking:
 
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Kev Kev

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im not aways on board with max's takes... and this is no different. but some of the things he says i actually really like. i was never super against the changes, but wasnt a huge fan of them, but i really like the idea that youve killed the plot ghosts (the only things protecting the original plot from being raped by sepiroth) and now anything can happen.

thats kind of cool... of course i hope that things dont change much, but it makes it a bit more exciting that we arent just waiting till the next game, were now talking and speculating about it... like, no one knows whats going to happen.

i just hope they dont change too many large events
 

Kev Kev

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this seems so complicated.... i mean, the game already had a complicated story, why make it more so? lol

i feel like i need to read books and play the other games just to understand whats going on. ugh

still tho, i do find it exciting that there will be plot points that are different or completely new, so im at least half way on board with all this
 

TheAssist

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i feel like i need to read books and play the other games just to understand whats going on. ugh
I kinda like that. I would totally agree with you if it was, lets say...Halo 4 and you needed to look up out of game resources. Even in FF15 it annoyed me to no end (though in that case it was planned from the beginning, which made it even worse). But since I simply enjoy consuming FF7 content, even if its sub par, I like digging through all that stuff. Its super subjective of course.

The stuff Strippin read on the dropped frames cast was really interesting. About Sephiroth needing Cloud to manifest in the real world, so maybe the only way to kill Seph is to kill Cloud...
 
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drganon

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I'm about halfway through the remake ( have started but haven't beaten the original), but man do I hate the Turks. Bunch of pretty boy douche bags.
 
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Shouta

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this seems so complicated.... i mean, the game already had a complicated story, why make it more so? lol

i feel like i need to read books and play the other games just to understand whats going on. ugh

still tho, i do find it exciting that there will be plot points that are different or completely new, so im at least half way on board with all this
Eh, It's not that complicated and it's mostly just an extension of what we know from FF7. It's also mostly the backdrop and you only really need to know all three of those players are potentially doing things in the background to influence stuff.
 

Fuz

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The worst things about this Remake are the totally random introduction of the Wispers of Fate, most of the side missions, and the plot changes they wanted to make to the original game.
[at least the gameplay takes some inspiration from Final Fantasy XV (one of my favorite Final Fantasy games since FFIX) , and it's good. But overall I consider the experience I had with Final Fantasy XV better than the one I had with this Remake.]

And all this because Nomura always wants to be a Nomura. Complicating situations that don't need to be complicated (Kingdom Hearts saga), and sometimes ruining iconic moments. In this case introducing a variable that has already ruined a franchise, time travel in Kingdom Hearts.
(do you remember what happened in KH 3 Remind? Here's what can will happen at this point at the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake)

The characters most damaged by this move (in addition to all the others) are, Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth and in particular Zack.
Nomura with Final Fantasy VII Remake destroyed the best moment of one of the franchise's most iconic characters, Zack's heroic death.


What does this imply?
That Nomura created a ridiculous way to resurrect a character (even if just in a Timeline). And even if you justify it with the question of timelines, it will not change what Nomura intentions will be.

Here's what I expect for the future:

- the game will continue with Part 2, but everyone will be too worried about thinking about how to avoid the mistakes they made focused on the memories of the future, rather than focusing on what was the unfolding of the plot of the original.

- Aerith will die differently, and more PEGI free than the original.
It turns out that in the "Zack Timeline" it survives. And that it is Zack who saves her.

(which is extremely obvious for me)
[because Nomura will probably invent that Aerith just dies in at least one of the 2 timelines to launch Holy on the planet]

- Nomura wanted to emphasize even the Avalance mascot the moment Zack survives.
I hypothesize that it is because in this alternative Timeline Zack takes that simple dog as inspiration to found a new organization of terrorist opposition to Shinra, the Avalance.
(therefore, making Zack one of the founders of the group)

- Tifa's journey into Cloud's mind will be definitively canceled, with the excuse of the Wispers factor and how such events have practically already destroyed the concept of existential problem that Cloud carried with him in the original.
At the end of Final Fantasy VII Remake, practically, Cloud is already Cloud. Since Nomura wanted to emphasize the fact that his "personal conflict" was dispelled by the clash with Sephiroth from the future that wants to prevent the past Sephiroth from launching Meteor and destroying the world.
(when in reality the world would not be totally destroyed anyway, since Holy would be launched in any case, but anyway ....)
[Nomura wanted to point out that Sephiroth does not want to die in the end, which destroys Sephiroth's character (and characterization) f rom the original game , given that by JENOVA's ambitions, Sephiroth would gladly die for his mother]

- Final Fantasy VII Remake final battle (Part 4/7?).
Defeat Sephiroth on 2 timelines.
One that of Remake, and the other that of Zack timeline.

Where Zack, Aerith, Cloud, defeat Sephiroth who wants to die.
And the other is today's Remake timeline, where the battle against Sephiroth will take place similarly to the original, probably. With the difference that during the battle there will always be a change and exchange of shots and scenarios between this dimension and the other to better point out how Sephiroth is defeated simultaneously in two different temporal dimensions.
(cool, but at the same time superfluous and basically useless)

So, ultimately, this decision dictated by Nomura's will to introduce the variable of "time, fate and mystery" only gave an opposite effect for me. Unnecessarily complicating a story which, being already complex, did not deserve to be complicated with new variables that ruin its natural narrative flow.

Because in one move it has basically destroyed some of the game's most iconic characters.
Never thought I'd see the day.
 
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Kev Kev

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finally beat hellhouse on hard for the last time. by the end of it, the battle was actually kind of fun, although it was a bit difficult to tell when the element was ice or lightning, and the time it gives you too cast is a bit short imho, i did enjoy it.

and i will likely never do that shit again lol.

well, maybe one day.... im honestly not sick of the game yet and im considering doing a brand new game starting from scratch after this run

i found this youtube video very detailed (except equipment load-out which he didnt go into for some odd reason)

 
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KrisB

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Finished my first Normal mode playthrough. Wow, what a ride.

Overall really happy with the game, I was extremely sceptical about them remaking my favourite game of all time but they've pulled it off.

Now the wait for part 2.
 

Rentahamster

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although it was a bit difficult to tell when the element was ice or lightning, and the time it gives you too cast is a bit short imho, i did enjoy it.
All you need to do is check the intel screen.

If you can't make the casting window in time, use the tier 1 spells. They're faster, and it's better than missing.
 
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Hostile_18

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Just finished. Was loving it but those last two chapters... I'm really not sure.

Clouds power level is through the roof. Where is the original Septhroth in all this? Going into that portal at the end I was like do the team even know why they are fighting the ghosts and what exactly the greater threat is at this point? Or who Septhroth is? Because I don't think it was made clear to them. I barely remembered the Zack storyline so that was confusing but it would be even more confusing to someone playing this for the first time.

I loved the more fleshed out characters/scenes though.

Ultimately I think they made it more complex and lost plot coherence tbh. Which is worse than Kingdom Hearts because it never had it in the first place to lose.
 

#Phonepunk#

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is this your first Final Fantasy game? they all come together and fight a giant god monster at the end.

that's how FF games usually end.